124 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Jets-Giants fight puts new home on hold 2 partners are locked in a potentially expensive debate over stadium design Wednesday, August 09, 2006 BY MATTHEW FUTTERMAN Star-Ledger Staff The honeymoon is over. Nearly a year after entering into a historic partnership to build a football stadium in the Meadowlands, the Jets and Giants are at odds over nearly every detail of the project, including its design and cost, according to six industry executives with direct knowledge of the process. Relations have gotten so bad, lawyers ended up in arbitration last month over which team would get to use their current home, Giants Stadium, on the Thursday night before Labor Day weekend for their final preseason game this summer. The two teams hope to begin playing in a new stadium in 2010. "You're getting to the point where they could be in danger of losing another season," said one industry executive who has a close relationship with top officials in both organizations. "There is too much at stake for this not to happen, but every month that slips by, they are losing more and more money." The executives interviewed asked to remain anonymous because they did not want to jeopardize their relationships with the teams. John Mara, co-owner of the Giants, acknowledged the teams are at odds over some important matters but said he remains confident a new shared stadium will be ready for the 2010-11 season. "We've agreed on so much so far, and we agree on many more things than we disagree on," Mara said last night from Chicago, where he and Jets owner Woody Johnson were attending the National Football League owners meetings. "We'd all like it if the process would move along faster, but this is such a complicated process -- and there are so many decisions to be made, it's inevitable you're going to have some disagreements." Johnson did not return phone calls seeking comment. While the teams have come to an agreement on an overall plan for the stadium complex and surrounding development, for months executives have reported little progress on the centerpiece of the project, the stadium itself. Tensions boiled over last month in the dispute over the teams' final exhibition games this season, in which the Giants will host the New England Patriots and the Jets will host the Philadelphia Eagles. Both the Jets and the Giants wanted to play their games Aug. 31, because it would allow for 10 days of rest before the regular-season opener on Sept. 10. The Jets argued they should be allowed the Thursday night date because the Giants played on the comparable date last year. The Giants claimed they had the right to the date because they had a contract to play New England before the Jets had a deal to play Philadelphia. With the two sides unable to reach a compromise -- both teams listed an Aug. 31 home game on their Web sites -- the matter went to the NFL commissioner's office, which settles all disputes between franchises. The league sided with the Giants because they were the first to file their contract. The Jets are now scheduled to host the Eagles the night after the Giants game. Mara said the argument over the preseason schedule was not indicative of what remains a solid working relationship and that he expects the two sides to agree on a final design by the end of the year. BILLION-DOLLAR ESTIMATES The executives interviewed for this story said the disagreements boil down to a fundamental difference over stadium design. The Jets favor a high-tech glass and steel structure similar to the one they wanted to build on the West Side of Manhattan. It would be filled with electronic scoreboards and signs that could alter the look of the stadium depending on which team was playing there, and sponsors would have an array of options for splashing their names in different areas. The Giants favor a more traditional -- and less expensive -- stadium where the focus is on football rather than advertising opportunities. In the spring, the teams produced as many as six sets of preliminary drawings and sent them to builders for estimates. The estimates all came back in the neighborhood of $1 billion; one design favored by the Jets was placed at nearly $1.2 billion. That was far more than the Giants had hoped to pay when the team entered the partnership last year. In an effort to save money, the team asked its architects, 360 Architecture and Hammes, last month for a new design about 200,000 square feet smaller. However, construction experts say that with the cost of steel and concrete rising at historic rates, the delay may wipe out any potential savings from a smaller structure, especially if the new stadium isn't ready for the 2010 season. Marc Ganis, a leading stadium consultant, said conflict was inevitable between two teams that originally planned to build their own stadiums. "They both need the new facility and they are unlikely to get them in other locations," Ganis said. "So they need each other, they need to work together, and they will." Officials with the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority, the agency that operates the Meadowlands Sports Complex, said they have stayed out of the disagreements so far. Instead, they have concentrated on finishing negotiations on the state's development agreement with the teams. Carl Goldberg, chairman of the sports authority, said those discussions are finished and a draft of the deal has been sent to Gov. Jon Corzine for his approval. "Our focus has been the traffic and the parking management and the building's relationship with the plans for Xanadu," Goldberg said, referring to the massive retail and entertainment center now under construction at the Meadowlands. "From where I stand, I'm thinking everything is where I wish it to be." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 The Jets will break ground in Florham Park. And then walk away from this stadium deal. They end up practicing in NJ and playing in NY. You heard it here first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaZulia Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Is there any chance this deal could crash and burn and the Jets look back to Queens? BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green DNA Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Is there any chance this deal could crash and burn and the Jets look back to Queens? BZ We can only hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 So many different variables to agree upon-Woody and Mara should get in a room lock the door and work this out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Is there any chance this deal could crash and burn and the Jets look back to Queens? BZ It could happen. But I wouldn't buy 100 domains about it or anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 Yeah we can only hope to have to play in a city with tremendous traffic, agravation, no tailgating, mad expensive prices, etc. We're not going anywhere, we're staying where we belong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajensen088 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 If Woody Johnson is indicted by federal prosecutors before the deal goes through, everything could change, including ownership of the Jets. The Senate Subcommittee's report on billionaires using Enron type accounting schemes to defraud the treasury out of hundreds of millions of dollars is in the hands of Federal Prosecutors. Of the four billionaires subpoened two took the 5th amendment and are likely to be indicted. Woody testified and took the Ken Lay defense.. 'I didn't know.... I was told it was all legal'.. http://www.forbes.com/business/2006/08/01/tax-cheats-havens-cx_jh_0802tax.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raffyD Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Is there any chance this deal could crash and burn and the Jets look back to Queens? BZ That's all I was thinking about while reading the article, I guess one can hold out hope but I've set myself up twice now for NY stadium disappointments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaZulia Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 It could happen. But I wouldn't buy 100 domains about it or anything! Hey, I only bought about 10 or so... No matter what, come hell or high water, I am sticking with the last one. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raffyD Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Yeah we can only hope to have to play in a city with tremendous traffic, agravation, no tailgating, mad expensive prices, etc. We're not going anywhere, we're staying where we belong. No offense 124, but no one really belongs in NJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaZulia Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 No offense 124, but no one really belongs in NJ. These guys do. Their owner is cheap. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSJets Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 If Woody Johnson is indicted by federal prosecutors before the deal goes through, everything could change, including ownership of the Jets. The Senate Subcommittee's report on billionaires using Enron type accounting schemes to defraud the treasury out of hundreds of millions of dollars is in the hands of Federal Prosecutors. Of the four billionaires subpoened two took the 5th amendment and are likely to be indicted. Woody testified and took the Ken Lay defense.. 'I didn't know.... I was told it was all legal'.. http://www.forbes.com/business/2006/08/01/tax-cheats-havens-cx_jh_0802tax.html Lia, I hope you're better at baking brownies for Herm than hijacking threads. Nice try. As far as the stadium goes, I'm sure things will work itself out. I'm still on the fence about which stadium I would prefer. I like the idea of a hi-tech stadium, but I also like a stadium that's more old school. I'm sure they'll meet somewhere in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buldawg Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Is there any chance this deal could crash and burn and the Jets look back to Queens? BZ I seem to remember when they set this deal up there was a clause stating that any disagreements over design would go to an arbitrator. With the way costs are rising I'm pretty sure they find a way to get along before it falls apart and costs them both double +.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaZulia Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I seem to remember when they set this deal up there was a clause stating that any disagreements over design would go to an arbitrator. With the way costs are rising I'm pretty sure they find a way to get along before it falls apart and costs them both double +.... That is the dumbest part of it all. For every month they wait, it is making the costs rise up. Just build the damn thing. Personally, I want the #1 Stadium in the NFL. I want it to be both traditional and cool. I want it to be high tech, but with a foundation of what football is about (the fans). Put in a ton of bathrooms, great site lines, easy access, places for lots of tailgating and make it loud. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buldawg Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 That is the dumbest part of it all. For every month they wait, it is making the costs rise up. Just build the damn thing. Personally, I want the #1 Stadium in the NFL. I want it to be both traditional and cool. I want it to be high tech, but with a foundation of what football is about (the fans). Put in a ton of bathrooms, great site lines, easy access, places for lots of tailgating and make it loud. BZ Totally agree. I think the high tech and glass look for the shell would fit in Manhattan better than the swamps. Keep the great site lines, put in cup holders at the seats etc..The longer it drags on the more it will cost the ticket holders.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetaholic Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 What do you all think of a stadium in NJ for the JETS and the JETS only. Plenty of room out in West Jersey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Totally agree. I think the high tech and glass look for the shell would fit in Manhattan better than the swamps. Keep the great site lines, put in cup holders at the seats etc..The longer it drags on the more it will cost the ticket holders.... This is a good point. The glass design in the swamp? Probably doesn't fit. I am happy though that the Jets are giving the Giants a hard time. After so many years of sitting back and taking it this organization now stands up and demans they be counted. To Woody and Company I say thank you for fighting the good fight. It will be great hearing all the Giants fans complaining about how the PSL costs are the fault of the Jets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSJets Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 This is a good point. The glass design in the swamp? Probably doesn't fit. I am happy though that the Jets are giving the Giants a hard time. After so many years of sitting back and taking it this organization now stands up and demans they be counted. To Woody and Company I say thank you for fighting the good fight. It will be great hearing all the Giants fans complaining about how the PSL costs are the fault of the Jets! I agree...how about an all brick exterior (with windows of course) for an old-school style stadium, but inside, all of the hi-tech gadgets they can come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaumerJet Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Is there any chance this deal could crash and burn and the Jets look back to Queens? BZ They either work this out or there will be no new stadium for either team. Mark my words - they have no choice but to work this out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaumerJet Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 What do you all think of a stadium in NJ for the JETS and the JETS only. Plenty of room out in West Jersey http://www.allamuchynj.org/ Are you nuts? They'd have to move from Florham Park just to be less than 30 minutes from the stadium! However, they could move off New Road/Ridgedale Avenue in East Hanover. With that kind of money, they could take over the old municipal airport & put in enough drainage that it won't flood - plus easy access from routes 80/280/287/46 - plus they'd only be 10 minutes from the training facility.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaZulia Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Great... put the stadium further into Jersey so less people will go. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaumerJet Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Great... put the stadium further into Jersey so less people will go. BZ I was being sarcastic - we are not going anywhere else but East Rutherford. Teams fighting over design differences JANET FRANKSTON Associated Press NEW YORK - The New York Giants and New York Jets are fighting over design differences in their proposed new stadium, projected to cost between $1.1 billion to $1.2 billion. But despite conflicts over architecture, Woody Johnson, owner and chairman of the New York Jets, said the deal for the new stadium at the Meadowlands in New Jersey is not in jeopardy. "This is a very, very complex project with a lot of moving parts," he said. "At the end of the day, we are making decisions and are moving the project forward pretty dramatically." Alice McGillion, a spokeswoman for New Meadowlands Stadium Corp., a company that represents the team owners, said there are no critical problems or differences that put the project or the timeline of a 2010 opening in question. "Every time you have a design of this size and two partners, you're going to have differences and that is what is being worked through now," she said. The new stadium planned for the Meadowlands, jointly financed by the two NFL teams, is expected to have about 82,500 seats and 200 suites. "We'd all like it if the process would move along faster, but this is such a complicated process - and there are so many decisions to be made, it's inevitable you're going to have some disagreements," John Mara, co-owner of the Giants, told The Star-Ledger of Newark for Wednesday's newspapers,Johnson said the teams agree on the basics, such as the number of seats and suites. "Cost is an issue. It's a major issue," he said. "I think we both want a stadium that serves the fans both now and in the future. He declined to describe the differences in design, but said both teams want "a project that will look good now, will be a testament to the fans 30 or 40 years from now, that is affordable and sustainable." McGillion said every milestone so far has been met, including master plan submissions, and permit applications are under review with various state agencies. "We are on schedule," she said. "All of the critical things that need to happen to keep the project in motion are happening." Yet another issue arose between the two football teams that had to be settled by a National Football League arbitrator. McGillion said both wanted to play their final preseason game in Giants Stadium the Thursday night before Labor Day weekend. The Giants will play that night, she said. Johnson said he had no hard feelings over the game and downplayed the arbitration process. "There a lot of disputes that go through a process," he said. "A preseason game, whether it's Thursday or Friday, is not that big a deal." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeniorFlaJet Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Is there any chance this deal could crash and burn and the Jets look back to Queens? BZ We talked about this last week. Queens is not your father's Queens any more as they say. its multi cultural. When I come up to NY for the games i stay at my son's condo. Getting there it seems like I'm going thru Disney's Its a small small world. If you thought there was going to be communnity opposition for the WSS it would be a Girl Scout meeting compared towhat would go on in Queens. All you see there are soccer games. I even saw a rugby game going on. And even if they did start talking about it now it might be 2015 before it would be completed even if it were approved which I doubt. Lock them in a room and have them fight it out in NJ and lets get the damn thing built.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Too much money involved for it not to happen. And NYC is done;even a guy as rich as Woody Johnson isn't going to pee away another $ 70 million. This is just the Jints still trying to be the top dog, and it's not right. All the Jets are doing is trying to see that the long-term revenue is maximized. And probably also that Johnson and the Jets are a little tired of just taking what they're told to do by the NFL and the Jints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeniorFlaJet Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Also good points bugg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaZulia Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Too much money involved for it not to happen. That is EXACTLY what we said about the West Side Stadium... BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 JUST GO TO QUEENS AND GIVE US OUR OWN STADIUM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 New York is dead- The Jets are going to be in New Jersey-Woody would never put up the money to go to Queens- only Manhattan would have gotten the allure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 No offense 124, but no one really belongs in NJ. I do. I love it. East Rutherford on Sundays > NYC on Sundays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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