That is why the Sox acquired Beckett.

[Blackout]

Nick Johnson was in the majors for TWO YEARS before that trade. That was a complely different situation. Of course it was a horrible trade but you're giving the boston front office a pass because they didn't see those guys play. Johnson dosn't fall into that catagory.

I'm still waiting for the minor leaguers the yankees have traded that are ANYWHERE NEAR as good as ramriez or sanchez... and i'm going to be waiting awhile becuase there arn't any. It's amazing to me how much boston fans want to defend their front office who did a TERRIBLE job this year and is the no 1 reason boston won't make the playoffs.

As far as international FA's those amounts of money 1-2 milion dollar bonuses are available to ANY TEAM. You know what team signed the best class of international FA's this year? The cleveland indians. NOWHERE NEAR a big market team. Boston and ANY OTHER TEAM aside from the marlins could've signed soriano.

jason giambi* in 2006 > nick johnson

so that johnson trade doesnt even hurt us that badly, he's at a position we don't care about.

if he was a CFer that trade would sting, but not now

[madmike1]

jason giambi* in 2006 > nick johnson

so that johnson trade doesnt even hurt us that badly, he's at a position we don't care about.

if he was a CFer that trade would sting, but not now

i'l disagree with you on that. the yankees will regret trading johnson for a long time. he's a GREAT not good hitter.

[GimmeShelter]

Mike, I am not a Boston fan and again, the Yanks had no prospects that they developed that they could have traded that were on a tier of Sanchez and Ramirez until Wang and Cano.

The latter was offered to the DBacks despite your claim the Yanks were pulling the wool over a team with one of, if not the best minor league pool of prospects in BB.

We disagree so let's just drop it.

[madmike1]

Mike, I am not a Boston fan and again, the Yanks had no prospects that they developed that they could have traded that were on a tier of Sanchez and Ramirez until Wang and Cano.

The latter was offered to the DBacks despite your claim the Yanks were pulling the wool over a team with one of, if not the best minor league pool of prospects in BB.

We disagree so let's just drop it.

all you need to know about the dback's GM (not their drafting people) is the schilling and johnson trades. they got raped twice and cashman DID pull wool over their eyes while keeping wang and cano.

sorry if i keep forgetting you're not a boston fan... you act exactly like them lol

[#27TheDominator]

Didn't Willy Mo and Lowell come through the Yanks farm? Johnson is a great hitter and I will regret trading him, but we ended up with Randy Johnson out of that. I think they only let him go because they think he had brittle hands and would get hurt constantly.

[PFSIKH]

he's a GREAT not good hitter.

Homer. You might want to wipe some of that man juice off your chin. Nick Johnson is a great hitter? Please tell me ol' wise stat whore how a guy that has below average power for first is a great hitter? He hits for a decent average and draws walks. That does not make him great.

[madmike1]

Homer. You might want to wipe some of that man juice off your chin. Nick Johnson is a great hitter? Please tell me ol' wise stat whore how a guy that has below average power for first is a great hitter? He hits for a decent average and draws walks. That does not make him great.

make up your mind idiot. if i was really a homer i would bash nick to make the yankee front office look ok for trading him like boston homers do to defend their inept front office. I guess you don't know any other stats besides USELESS BA and "walks" but any hitter with a 950 OPS is great and nick falls into that catagory. Nick is a better hitter then any yankee besides giambi this year.

The guy who has below average power for 1st and walks is youkillis not a great hitter like nick johnson.

[Blackout]

Homer. You might want to wipe some of that man juice off your chin. Nick Johnson is a great hitter? Please tell me ol' wise stat whore how a guy that has below average power for first is a great hitter? He hits for a decent average and draws walks. That does not make him great.

.290/.428/.520, 46 doubles, 23 homers, 77 RBI, 110 walks 100 runs scored in 500 flat at-bats

I don't think he's a "great" hitter, but I don't think he has "below average" power for a first basemen. 46 doubles and 23 homers is alot better than plenty of first basemen in the league (ie Youkillis).

[PFSIKH]

make up your mind idiot. if i was really a homer i would bash nick to make the yankee front office look ok for trading him like boston homers do to defend their inept front office. I guess you don't know any other stats besides USELESS BA and "walks" but any hitter with a 950 OPS is great and nick falls into that catagory. Nick is a better hitter then any yankee besides giambi this year.

The guy who has below average power for 1st and walks is youkillis not a great hitter like nick johnson.

One season does not a great hitter make. Your unhealthy fascination with OPS aside, Johnson's is having, using your term, a great season.

OPS is not the be all end all you make it out to be.

[AFJF]

I guess you forgot about his game in May vs the Yankees (7IP 6H 3R 7Ks).

He was brought to the Sox because they needed a young pitcher to anchor the staff for the next decade. Whether he is that guy remains to be seen. His issues are easily fixable. If listens to Tek and the staff, he will be that ace he was brought to Boston to be.

MM

Do not let the facts get in the way of your blind homerism.

The Twins are a better hitting team at home, but still hit .273 on the road. Good for mid-AL. Not exactly horrible and seeing they had just teed off on Boston pitching for 15 runs and 30 hits the previous two games, Becket did show something. Thanks for playing.

please explain this to me....blind homerism?

In the start that I referred to and called his best start against the Yankees, Josh Beckett pitched seven innings, allowing six hits, with zero walks and seven strikeouts. The guy was on. No free passes, a very good 3 ER in 7 IP vs a slugging Yankee line up. He wasn't unhittalbe by any means, but the guy was in control and made the Yankees work. IMO, his best start of the year versus the Yankees.

He also had another strong showing against the Yankees earlier in the season (the game that you referred to) and allowed 2 ER in 6 IP but the difference was that in that game, he didn't dominate. He was having to work in and out of jams that he was creating himself. The bottom line is that he got the win, just wasn't as dominant in doing so IMO.

I'm not sure what your personal issue is with me, but this is twice that I've started a thread stating an opinion and you reply with some type of childish comment and act as though your opinion is the only one that matters. We all have em. We're all entitled to them. My opinion, is that 3 ER in 7 IP vs the Yankees with a WHIP under 1.00 is as good as you can ask for. 6 IP spent dodging bullets is still a damn good day if you only allow 2 runs, but more walks than K's isn't what I would consider in command. At this point it's splitting hairs but at no point did I say that Beckett only had one good showing vs. the Yanks. IMO (that means in my opinion) his most dominant outing came when the penant race was over.

[PFSIKH]

please explain this to me....blind homerism?

In the start that I referred to and called his best start against the Yankees, Josh Beckett pitched seven innings, allowing six hits, with zero walks and seven strikeouts. The guy was on. No free passes, a very good 3 ER in 7 IP vs a slugging Yankee line up. He wasn't unhittalbe by any means, but the guy was in control and made the Yankees work. IMO, his best start of the year versus the Yankees.

He also had another strong showing against the Yankees earlier in the season (the game that you referred to) and allowed 2 ER in 6 IP but the difference was that in that game, he didn't dominate. He was having to work in and out of jams that he was creating himself. The bottom line is that he got the win, just wasn't as dominant in doing so IMO.

I'm not sure what your personal issue is with me, but this is twice that I've started a thread stating an opinion and you reply with some type of childish comment and act as though your opinion is the only one that matters. We all have em. We're all entitled to them. My opinion, is that 3 ER in 7 IP vs the Yankees with a WHIP under 1.00 is as good as you can ask for. 6 IP spent dodging bullets is still a damn good day if you only allow 2 runs, but more walks than K's isn't what I would consider in command. At this point it's splitting hairs but at no point did I say that Beckett only had one good showing vs. the Yanks. IMO (that means in my opinion) his most dominant outing came when the penant race was over.

Cool your Jets...the bolded MM was directed at Mad Mike and not you.

I could have spelled his name but that would have required more key strokes.

[madmike1]

One season does not a great hitter make. Your unhealthy fascination with OPS aside, Johnson's is having, using your term, a great season.

OPS is not the be all end all you make it out to be.

It's not one season. Johnson's OPS has been great throughout his minor league carrer and since he came up and it's just getting better.

It's also not just me who views OPS as the single most important offensive stat. Many major league teams such as the blue jays, the rangers, the yankees, the mets, the a's, the red sox up untill they went away from it this offseason and many other teams all use OPS as the single best way to judge offensive production. All it takes is 8th grade math skills to figure out that BA is a useless stat and that OPS (and the OBP part of it even more) tells ALOT more about how productive a hitter is.

[AFJF]

christ....that's twice this week that I didn't read a thread correctly. My bad. I really need to get back on Straterra.

[PFSIKH]

It's not one season. Johnson's OPS has been great throughout his minor league carrer and since he came up and it's just getting better.

It's also not just me who views OPS as the single most important offensive stat. Many major league teams such as the blue jays, the rangers, the yankees, the mets, the a's, the red sox up untill they went away from it this offseason and many other teams all use OPS as the single best way to judge offensive production. All it takes is 8th grade math skills to figure out that BA is a useless stat and that OPS (and the OBP part of it even more) tells ALOT more about how productive a hitter is.

Prior to this season, Johnson's OPS has bounced between the 700s (average) to 800s (good). At his age, he should have quite a few more great ones, but he has not yet.

It is important. Here is why I do not think it is the be-all/end all-stat. Both Abreu and Anduw Jones have an .891 OPS. However, if I had a choice, I would prefere Abreu type production. Abreu hits for average, has decent power and draws walks compared to Jones who only has Abreu beat in the HR department.

[mbn007]

.290/.428/.520, 46 doubles, 23 homers, 77 RBI, 110 walks 100 runs scored in 500 flat at-bats

I don't think he's a "great" hitter, but I don't think he has "below average" power for a first basemen. 46 doubles and 23 homers is alot better than plenty of first basemen in the league (ie Youkillis).

He also does not play in a very hitter-friendly park.

[mbn007]

Prior to this season, Johnson's OPS has bounced between the 700s (average) to 800s (good). At his age, he should have quite a few more great ones, but he has not yet.

It is important. Here is why I do not think it is the be-all/end all-stat. Both Abreu and Anduw Jones have an .891 OPS. However, if I had a choice, I would prefere Abreu type production. Abreu hits for average, has decent power and draws walks compared to Jones who only has Abreu beat in the HR department.

That's why you need to check the OBP part of the OPS.

[madmike1]

Here is why I do not think it is the be-all/end all-stat. Both Abreu and Anduw Jones have an .891 OPS. However, if I had a choice, I would prefere Abreu type production. Abreu hits for average, has decent power and draws walks compared to Jones who only has Abreu beat in the HR department.

No stat is the be all end all and i never said anything different from that but OPS is the best stat we have. A similer stat to OPS where OBP is more weighted might be slightly better but i know of nothing like that as of now...

I JUST SAID that the OBP part of OPS is more important. The fact that abreu hits for average means nothing (he's hitting 300 to jones' 262.) The difference in OBP is what makes him a better hitter then jones.

As far as johnson goes aside from his rookie year and his first year with the expos where he was playing with a farctured hand for a good portion of the season (only 73 games,) his OPS has been around or well above 900 and his OBP has been well over 400. Those are the marks of a great hitter.

[madmike1]

This is EXACTLY why boston got beckett LOL

to go 6.2IP 8H 8ER vs the DRays LMAO

He ends the season with 36 homers allowed.

[kloogy]

Theo shows his wisdom once again !

[mbn007]

I know he won 16 games, and pitched some games where he was very good to excellent.

But he surrendered a ton of HRs, and in the majority of his starts was pitching like a borderline/fringe pitcher. Not the ace teh Bosox thought they were acquiring.

Maybe it was leaving the comfort of cozy, pitcher's park Miami for a hitter's park like Fenway. Maybe it was switching leagues.

Or maybe he isn't going to be as good as was expected.

[CrazyCarl40]

Maybe it was leaving the comfort of cozy, pitcher's park Miami for a hitter's park like Fenway. Maybe it was switching leagues.

Or maybe he isn't going to be as good as was expected.

Maybe if you were quasi-informed you'd know that most of Becketts HRs came on the road. Maybe if you were quasi-intelligent you'd know while being hitter friendly, Fenway was not HR friendly this season. And yes maybe just maybe going from the plush 8 hitter (sometimes less really) league to the DH dominated AL had something to do with it.

Beckett made it through all or most of his starts this season and without any huge troubles with blisters or the like. That is the most encouraging. He has probably set personal bests for IP and Gs. Of course the ignorant like yourself will overlook that fact and the fact that he was able to get by on his fastball in the NL. One spring training with Schill and Wallace and I think you will see a world of change. But then again, maybe it won't. The money we're paying him to be the #2 and win 16 games this season is roughly equal or less than what you paid Pavano and the like. So, me? I'll take the growing pains, all things considered.

[mbn007]

Maybe if you were quasi-informed you'd know that most of Becketts HRs came on the road. Maybe if you were quasi-intelligent you'd know while being hitter friendly, Fenway was not HR friendly this season. And yes maybe just maybe going from the plush 8 hitter (sometimes less really) league to the DH dominated AL had something to do with it.

Beckett made it through all or most of his starts this season and without any huge troubles with blisters or the like. That is the most encouraging. He has probably set personal bests for IP and Gs. Of course the ignorant like yourself will overlook that fact and the fact that he was able to get by on his fastball in the NL. One spring training with Schill and Wallace and I think you will see a world of change. But then again, maybe it won't. The money we're paying him to be the #2 and win 16 games this season is roughly equal or less than what you paid Pavano and the like. So, me? I'll take the growing pains, all things considered.

Maybe if you could read, you will note I said Fenway is a hitter's park. I did not say it was a HR park.

But that would be asking too much from you. Attack. Attack. Attack. That is your mode.

Beckett made it through the season without his usual blisters issues. Very good. Javy Vasquez, another good NL pitcher, also pitched injury-free in the AL. But he still was horrible. In both his stints. With the Yankees and this year with the White Sox.

My point. Simply that maybe Beckett just isn't the ace everyone thought he would be. Maybe he is, but then again, maybe he isn't.

Sorry if that plain opinion upset your sensitivities.

[madmike1]

Beckett and Pavano were both MAJOR mistakes by the yankees are botson however the yankees didn't give up 2 young stud players for pavano. Nice spin with the health crap LOL. I'd feel better about his awful pitching if he WAS hurt.