Chad Pennington

[Bugg]

What was Dallas' alternative to Drew Bledsoe?

What was Pittsburgh's alternative to Tommy Maddox?

What was Baltimore's alternative to Tony Banks?

What was New England's alternative to Drew Bledsoe?

What was St. Louis' alternative to Kurt Warner?

What was Carolina's alternative to Rodney Peete?

And Chad's weapons only seem to look as bad b/c he's the one delivering the ball. The more I watch Coles play, the more impressed I am with him. He is friggin' awesome & prevents Chad from looking as bad as he's truly been. How many WR's break tackles or drag receivers like that & always seem to get across the 1st-down marker even though Chad's. Santana Moss was also nothing special when Chad was throwing him the ball. First year away from Pennington he's in the pro-bowl. Back it up a little earlier - Coles' first year away from Chad Pennington: also goes to the pro-bowl. Justin McCareins goes from leading the NFL in YPC to mediocre as soon as Chad becomes his QB.

Oh, what's the point? Why don't we all have a hands-across-America moment & all just pretend that Chad has no arm problems. He never has. He's never come up small in big games. His arm strength never lets defenses cheat up & help stop our running game. Anything less than stellar is someone else's fault.

Wonderful Chad needs, and deserves, 3 pro-bowl WR's, a pro-bowl TE, a pro-bowl RB, pro-bowlers on the OL, and a dominant defense.

Then he'll show the world just how great he is.

To reiterate-Pennington himself was the great unknown in 2002. And many of Testaverde's "You can't do it" posters in 2002 sounded a lot like some of the Chad guys tonight. And again, I like Pennington as a person. His play is the issue, nothing else.

[CoachTsurfing]

I'm not calling for him to be benched either. What I am saying is, he is not a starting QB that is going to win games by his self. He is a lot like Trent Dilfer. If all the stars in the heavens align then we could win a superbowl. I'm not sure about Kellen Clemens either. But I wish we could find out because there are going to be some great QB prospects in this draft. Chad will not lead us to a superbowl.

[madmike1]

Yeah, well, every Jets fan would have been much more thrilled with 6-4.

Sorry if my glasses don't have enough green tint on them to make me "thrilled" after a loss.

They woulda been thrilled with 10-0 too. Did you really expect us to beat the pats AND the bears? Be realistic. I made a thread saying we'd win ONE of those games and people called me stupid. The jets are in fine shape. Now if Chad starts to have games like this vs bad teams who we s hould beat then i'd think about benching him but Chad won't be the first or last QB the bears have made look bad this year...

[The Troll]

They woulda been thrilled with 10-0 too. Did you really expect us to beat the pats AND the bears? Be realistic. I made a thread saying we'd win ONE of those games and people called my stupid. The jets are in fine shape. Now if Chad starts to have games like this vs bad teams who we s hould beat then i'd think about benching him but Chad won't be the first or last QB the bears have made look bad this year...

We weren't SUPPOSED to beat either one of them. Maybe some of us had higher aspirations than to be mediocre after finally beating the FN Pats. And we could have beat Chicago...they scored 10 ****ing points. Chad Pennington didn't get the job done, period. If it wasn't for Chad, we'd have won both of those ****ing games that we "weren't supposed to win".

[madmike1]

We weren't SUPPOSED to beat either one of them. Maybe some of us had higher aspirations than to be mediocre after finally beating the FN Pats. And we could have beat Chicago...they scored 10 ****ing points. Chad Pennington didn't get the job done, period. If it wasn't for Chad, we'd have won both of those ****ing games that we "weren't supposed to win".

I doubt that Clemens or Ramsey would've played any better vs that defense.

[CoachTsurfing]

troll, you are right on. Our D today was lights out. How long can you possible keep them scoreless when they get let down time after time, like they did today. How much worse can Kellen be. If our D continues to improve like they have been we can stay in any of our remaining games. Put in Clemens now.

[#27TheDominator]

To reiterate-Pennington himself was the great unknown in 2002. And many of Testaverde's "You can't do it" posters in 2002 sounded a lot like some of the Chad guys tonight. And again, I like Pennington as a person. His play is the issue, nothing else.

Sure, but Pennington was a first round pick that had already carried the clipboard for two years and looked ready to do the job. Clemens is a rookie 2nd rounder that had last year off and this offense is kind of a work in progress. Pennington played horribly today, but like GreenBeans I don't want Clemens learning how to close his eyes and chuck the ball off his back foot. That only works when you throw to giants like Plaxico and RMoss.

[shawn306]

Okay decision time folks

Do you...

1) Make the push for the playoffs knowing that you have slim or no chance of getting past the first round with Pennington.

or

2) Toss the season aside and give Clemens the next six games to see what he has knowing that you win 1 or 2 games at most the rest of the way.

That is what you are looking at folks. Do you want to make the playoffs or do you continue to lay the foundation for 2007 by giving Clemens the experience that he NEEDS to be a productive QB next year. If you wait till next year then you are probably not going anywhere next year either while Clemens learns on the job.

If it was me. I know what I have in Pennington. I want to know if Clemens can be the QB in 2007. I would give him the six games take my lumps now with him and hope he is better in 07.

[The Troll]

I doubt that Clemens or Ramsey would've played any better vs that defense.

I doubt either one would have played any worse either.

At the least, we could have taken some shots deeper down the field.

[CoachTsurfing]

Dominator, I don't think that would happen. The line has been doing a nice job. The rb's have been picking up the rush and running hard and catching. Now is the time for Clemens. Especially with the remaining teams we have left

[madmike1]

Sure, but Pennington was a first round pick that had already carried the clipboard for two years and looked ready to do the job. Clemens is a rookie 2nd rounder that had last year off and this offense is kind of a work in progress. Pennington played horribly today, but like GreenBeans I don't want Clemens learning how to close his eyes and chuck the ball off his back foot. That only works when you throw to giants like Plaxico and RMoss.

Exactly. Chad had sat for TWO SEASONS and learned. Comparing that to this situation is ridiculous.

[The Troll]

Sure, but Pennington was a first round pick that had already carried the clipboard for two years and looked ready to do the job. Clemens is a rookie 2nd rounder that had last year off and this offense is kind of a work in progress. Pennington played horribly today, but like GreenBeans I don't want Clemens learning how to close his eyes and chuck the ball off his back foot. That only works when you throw to giants like Plaxico and RMoss.

When did Chad "look ready for the job"?

Whenever he was losing training camp snaps to Tory Woodbury?

[madmike1]

I doubt either one would have played any worse either.

At the least, we could have taken some shots deeper down the field.

Part of the reason we were deep in the bears' zone as it is was because chad made smart reads at the line and made some very good throws to dwight and coles on 3rd down. How do you know they would've even been in those spots if Ramsey or Clemens were playing?

[fatman]

Chad should stay the qb until the jets have no chance to win, right now he gives us the best chance to win. Clemens is the third on the depth chart right now he's not ready to play. Although I don't think we can win a superbowl with chad right now we can't win one with clemens either.

[The Troll]

Part of the reason we were deep in the bears' zone as it is was because chad made smart reads at the line and made some very good throws to dwight and coles on 3rd down. How do you know they would've even been in those spots if Ramsey or Clemens were playing?

And how do you know they wouldn't have been in even better spots if Ramsey or Clemens were playing? You don't and neither do I. If you wanna use rhetorical questions as 90% of your argument, I can play that game too.

Chad's reads were complete ****. I don't know what game you were watching.

[#27TheDominator]

When did Chad "look ready for the job"?

Whenever he was losing training camp snaps to Tory Woodbury?

I remember him just fine. Chad always looked good, the only problem he had was that he seemed afraid to let the ball rip and was always too careful. You know, the way he wasn't today. The line has looked good in pass protection, but the real pitiful pick was a direct result of pressure. If they think Clemens is ready I'm sure he'll get a shot. I think most of you fail to realize how important it is to just run the offense. Sure Clemens and Ramsey can probably make all the throws, but if they can't run the offense it screws up everything. It's nice to get a td on a broken play, but it's not helping the team grow just because it was thrown by a rookie. You mess up running the offense and every single player takes a step back.

[madmike1]

And how do you know they wouldn't have been in even better spots if Ramsey or Clemens were playing? You don't and neither do I. If you wanna use rhetorical questions as 90% of your argument, I can play that game too.

Chad's reads were complete ****. I don't know what game you were watching.

If you heard Mangini talk after the game he said that chad made alot of good calls on the check with me plays going from pass to run the visa versa depending on what front the bears showed so i'm gonna infer from that that he was a big part of us being able to make plays in the running game and move the ball. We moved the ball as well as any team had moved it against them all year.

[The Troll]

If you heard Mangini talk after the game he said that chad made alot of good calls on the check with me plays going from pass to run the visa versa depending on what front the bears showed so i'm gonna infer from that that he was a big part of us being able to make plays in the running game and move the ball. We moved the ball as well as any team had moved it against them all year.

What is he supposed to say?

"Chad really let us down out there. I called a great defense, and we had excellent field position throughout the first half, but Chad did absolutely nothing with it".

Herm is gone. If you are expecting Mangini to throw Pennington under the bus, you're gonna be waiting awhile.

[CoachTsurfing]

Fatman I agree with you, but why continue you to play chad if he can't lead you to a superbowl. We don't know what Clemens can do. We know chad isn't going to lead us there so lets see what Clemens can do against teams with losing records.

[serphnx]

I doubt that Clemens or Ramsey would've played any better vs that defense.

When did Chad "look ready for the job"?

Whenever he was losing training camp snaps to Tory Woodbury?

I dunno, but when did Roethlisberger look better than Maddox in practice, and if he did, why wasn't he started? What about Pennington over Vinny, Brady over Bledsoe, Romo over Bledsoe, Eli over Warner, Leinart over Warner, Vince Young over Collins, etc, etc.? If practice is so definitive, why were all of these guys not started sooner, and in the case where these guys really AREN'T very good at all, why were they started? Because you can't tell in practice, and you have to have some guts as a coach. Instead of fearing change, you make a move based on getting somewhere by the next year, if not having hope for that same year. Sure not all of those are rookies, but most of them are, or at the least didn't take any snaps before hand. I just think it's a bad argument to say if they performed better in practice they'd get started, or that they're guaranteed to be bad.

As I said before, I expect Pennington to finish this season, and probably play the next. I expect more mediocrity and futility for the next 5 years, and then Mangini gets fired when everything completely falls apart when the team gives up completely. That is the statement you're making when you accept these types of performances for fear of the unknown. Why blame Herm for refusing to start rookies when you criticize posters for even suggesting a QB change? You guys must have loved Herm. Because of him, we didn't know what Pennington could do until his contract year, we just now discovered Cotchery, and a lot of other players have had the same fate.

[madmike1]

I dunno, but when did Roethlisberger look better than Maddox in practice, and if he did, why wasn't he started? What about Pennington over Vinny, Brady over Bledsoe, Romo over Bledsoe, Eli over Warner, Leinart over Warner, Vince Young over Collins, etc, etc.? If practice is so definitive, why were all of these guys not started sooner, and in the case where these guys really AREN'T very good at all, why were they started? Because you can't tell in practice, and you have to have some guts as a coach. Instead of fearing change, you make a move based on getting somewhere by the next year, if not having hope for that same year. Sure not all of those are rookies, but most of them are, or at the least didn't take any snaps before hand. I just think it's a bad argument to say if they performed better in practice they'd get started, or that they're guaranteed to be bad.

As I said before, I expect Pennington to finish this season, and probably play the next. I expect more mediocrity and futility for the next 5 years, and then Mangini gets fired when everything completely falls apart when the team gives up completely. That is the statement you're making when you accept these types of performances for fear of the unknown. Why blame Herm for refusing to start rookies when you criticize posters for even suggesting a QB change? You guys must have loved Herm. Because of him, we didn't know what Pennington could do until his contract year, we just now discovered Cotchery, and a lot of other players have had the same fate.

You are really being overly dramatic. Mangini isn't Herm and thats one of the main reasons that i still support chad playing. If mangini thought that one of the other QB's would give us a better chance to win they would be playing. PERIOD. And i trust him and his staff to make that call.

[Barton]

The REALITY is that we're 5-5 and 3 weeks ago every jet fan woulda been thrilled with 5-5.

Yes, because nobody has faith in Chad being able to actually beat 2 good teams.

Be alittle more specific. If I told you after the patriots win, that the Jets would hold the bears to 10 points and still lose, would you have been thrilled by it? I think not.

Keep rooting for mediocrity. We'll go 7-9 or 8-8 with Chad, and Jets fans like you will say "He gave us a chance for the playoffs". Its a load of sh#t.

[PatsFanTX]

Be alittle more specific. If I told you after the patriots win, that the Jets would hold the bears to 10 points and still lose, would you have been thrilled by it? I think not.

Damn, the little dooshey is getting smart in his old age.

[madmike1]

Yes, because nobody has faith in Chad being able to actually beat 2 good teams.

Be alittle more specific. If I told you after the patriots win, that the Jets would hold the bears to 10 points and still lose, would you have been thrilled by it? I think not.

Keep rooting for mediocrity. We'll go 7-9 or 8-8 with Chad, and Jets fans like you will say "He gave us a chance for the playoffs". Its a load of sh#t.

Let me say RIGHT NOW that i will NOT be happy or content with a 8-8 or 7-9 season and as i've said before if chad plays like this vs bad defenses you might change my mind but i'm not at that point yet. Of course i would've thought we'd win only allowing 10 points but thats how football is. If a few plays go the other way in the game we DO win.

[PatsFanTX]

i've said before if chad plays like this vs bad defenses you might change my mind but i'm not at that point yet.

PennyBoy is 30-years old and has been in the NFL for 6 years.

He totally sucks.

At what point do you agree?

[serphnx]

You are really being overly dramatic. Mangini isn't Herm and thats one of the main reasons that i still support chad playing. If mangini thought that one of the other QB's would give us a better chance to win they would be playing. PERIOD. And i trust him and his staff to make that call.

So if Mangini turned around tomorrow and said Clemens gives the Jets the best chance to win, what happens to all the arguments you made today? They suddenly change, even though you've spent all day making them? Did you make these same arguments 4 years ago with the Chad for Vinny change? You don't think that shoots all your credibility and makes you sound stupid? How can your logic change at the drop of a hat? If you admit you have absolutely no basis for an argument aside from mimicking the coach, why are you even posting on this board? Why debate anything? You already made up your mind and won't bother with any logic, because your logic changes to fit your admitted coach/team homerism bias. How can you even have an opinion on who gives the Jets the best chance to start next week if the coach hasn't made the decision yet?

I think you might be somewhat retarded. I would make a joke about you arguing like a woman, but I honestly think gg and verde and the others don't argue like you, so it'd be an insult to them.

[#27TheDominator]

Fatman I agree with you, but why continue you to play chad if he can't lead you to a superbowl. We don't know what Clemens can do. We know chad isn't going to lead us there so lets see what Clemens can do against teams with losing records.

I don't mind the idea, but I don't think you really find out about a rookie qb like that. You have to cut the rook some slack. Look at Philip Rivers v. Eli. Do you really know more about Manning?

[serphnx]

Let me say RIGHT NOW that i will NOT be happy or content with a 8-8 or 7-9 season and as i've said before if chad plays like this vs bad defenses you might change my mind but i'm not at that point yet. Of course i would've thought we'd win only allowing 10 points but thats how football is. If a few plays go the other way in the game we DO win.

So you admit it's okay for him to suck against good teams? How is it giving the team the best chance to win when you've already admitted you expect losses against good teams? How many QBs do you think stink against bad defenses? Do you really think Clemens can't beat a bad defense even as a rookie, or at least develop quickly against them?

[madmike1]

So if Mangini turned around tomorrow and said Clemens gives the Jets the best chance to win, what happens to all the arguments you made today? They suddenly change, even though you've spent all day making them? Did you make these same arguments 4 years ago with the Chad for Vinny change? You don't think that shoots all your credibility and makes you sound stupid? How can your logic change at the drop of a hat? If you admit you have absolutely no basis for an argument aside from mimicking the coach, why are you even posting on this board? Why debate anything? You already made up your mind and won't bother with any logic, because your logic changes to fit your admitted coach/team homerism bias. How can you even have an opinion on who gives the Jets the best chance to start next week if the coach hasn't made the decision yet?

I think you might be somewhat retarded. I would make a joke about you arguing like a woman, but I honestly think gg and verde and the others don't argue like you, so it'd be an insult to them.

I gave you my damn opinion 5 times in this thread. CHAD GIVES THIS TEAM THE BEST CHANCE TO WIN RIGHT NOW. Your personal attacks on me don'[t change the fact that he's going to the be the starter for the near future as much as you hate to hear that. I used Mangini's press conference to ECHO what i've been saying throughout this thread that NO ONE will give chad any credit for the good things he does but they will KILL him 20x more for every mistake he makes. If you want to continue this circle jerk with your patsy troll pals who love bashing the jets and chad to no end then have fun. I'm not going to be a part of it.

[#27TheDominator]

So if Mangini turned around tomorrow and said Clemens gives the Jets the best chance to win, what happens to all the arguments you made today? They suddenly change, even though you've spent all day making them? Did you make these same arguments 4 years ago with the Chad for Vinny change? You don't think that shoots all your credibility and makes you sound stupid? How can your logic change at the drop of a hat?

That's a good point, but it applies to you as well. Why do you think Ramsey and Clemens offer a better opportunity to win today? Neither distinguished themselves when we saw them and practice has been closed for months. The best thing I could say about Clemens was that he thew a nice ball and looked OK for a rookie. Ramsey looked worse as a Jet than a Redskin and the offense was new to all three. Why should Ramsey suddenly have been hit with a bolt of lightning and "get it" now?

[madmike1]

That's a good point, but it applies to you as well. Why do you think Ramsey and Clemens offer a better opportunity to win today? Neither distinguished themselves when we saw them and practice has been closed for months. The best thing I could say about Clemens was that he thew a nice ball and looked OK for a rookie. Ramsey looked worse as a Jet than a Redskin and the offense was new to all three. Why should Ramsey suddenly have been hit with a bolt of lightning and "get it" now?

Because his name isn't Chad Pennington. The Chad haters will never see this situation realistically.

[Boozer76]

If Chad had won the game vs the browns (as he should've) and lost vs the pats and the bears i doubt that any of you would be bitching like this. Again AFTER THE BROWNS GAME ALL OF US would've signed for 5-5 IN A SECOND.

In the beginning of the season, sure 5-5 would have been nice. After the Browns game 5-5 would have been nice. But now having seen whayt our team is capable of, the fact of the matter is we would be 7-3 if our QB just SHOWED UP. Chad has done more to hurt us than help.

[#27TheDominator]

Because his name isn't Chad Pennington. The Chad haters will never see this situation realistically.

Well, this week the Chad haters have a point. He sucked. I wouldn't spend so much time defending him if it weren't for how he is always either "as good as Brady" or "total trash, not even an NFL qb." Fact is he's an above average qb with a below average arm. That adds up to an average NFL qb. He is particularly bad when asked to carry a bad team which has happened this year. When he even thinks he has to carry the team (like today) he tries to make throws he can't make and force things. Just because all that is true does not mean he should be benched.

[madmike1]

In the beginning of the season, sure 5-5 would have been nice. After the Browns game 5-5 would have been nice. But now having seen whayt our team is capable of, the fact of the matter is we would be 7-3 if our QB just SHOWED UP. Chad has done more to hurt us than help.

We would be 7-3 if the refs hadn't screwed us with the BS PI call vs the colts or the JOKE call on that baker TD too.

[madmike1]

Well, this week the Chad haters have a point. He sucked. I wouldn't spend so much time defending him if it weren't for how he is always either "as good as Brady" or "total trash, not even an NFL qb." Fact is he's an above average qb with a below average arm. That adds up to an average NFL qb. He is particularly bad when asked to carry a bad team which has happened this year. When he even thinks he has to carry the team (like today) he tries to make throws he can't make and force things. Just because all that is true does not mean he should be benched.

I'M NOT DEFENDING HIS PLAY TODAY. Aside from that i agree with you.