DB results

[bitonti]

Chris Houston 4.32

Marcus MacCauley 4.33

LeRon Landry 4.35

Josh Wilson 4.35

Eric Wright 4.38

Leon Hall 4.39

Jonathan Wade 4.39

John Wendling 4.43

David Irons 4.44

Michael Griffin 4.45

Aaron Ross 4.47

Brandon Merriweather 4.5

Eric Weddle 4.51

Reggie Nelson 4.53

thoughts:

chris houston is 2007 dunta robinson - with better production - the guy shut down meacham, bowe, and jarrett all in the same season - i mean shut em down- and he put up 27 reps - he's a bump and run demon. maybe top 10, he's that good of a player on tape.

leon hall also removed all doubts and is a sure fire first rounder with that time - this guy was better prospect on the field than marlin jackson, only reservations were timed speed, those reservations are gone

reggie nelson, welcome to the 3rd round, if you are lucky - no one wants slow safeties. from what i've seen on film, his instincts, especially taking angles to tackle are terrible. the guy may have dropped all the way out of the first day, there's just no value in safeties who run those times. Yes he makes big plays but only played 1 year at Florida.

[Sperm Edwards]

no one wants slow safeties

Almost no one.

[bitonti]

Almost no one.

i don't really get the reference - eric Smith???

[Barton]

Leon Hall's time: wow, he doesnt seem to play that fast but he's a 1st rd lock now for sure

I see the Jets drafting a corner on the 1st day. Maybe not a corner in the 1st rd, but in the 2nd or 3rd rd I could definetly see that happening.

I heard Hughes ran a 4.7 - is that right? If so, WOW, he's gonna drop like a rock. I also saw his vertical jump, and it was pathetic. Deon Sanders said "Are you kidding me?" lol

[Maxman]

i don't really get the reference - eric Smith???

I think it was a Bradway joke. But just don't make eye contact and keep walking.

Hey thanks for the info. I can't wait for free agency to start. So I know what positions the Jets will stress about in the draft.

[Sperm Edwards]

It was a mild swipe at the Eric Smith pick, yes. Didn't he run like a 4.7?

[DaBrick Wall]

Leon Hall solidified himself as a first rounder, most likely. But I'd be wary of him; he's probably been working towards this from the end of his season because he was viewed as a slow corner in college (I believe he was timed last year at 4.5). Houston moved up a lot, I think if he's there in the first second round pick I would take him. And Ross slipped down from this. He's probably no better than a second rounder now..

[gang_green03]

Wow I really didn't think Hall would run that fast. I was thinking high 4.4s at best but more like 4.5s. My question is where was that speed on the field? I've heard numerous people talk about him getting burned on multiple occasions. Most notably Ginn, but I'll admit it's hard for anyone to match that kind of speed. Also, I believe Jarrett torched him.

Glad to see Houston tear it up in workouts. I figured he'd do very well, although I didn't think he'd post the fasted time. I'm really high on the kid and he's one of my favorite prospects in the draft. I was really hoping he'd be an option for the Jets at 25 but now I'm not so sure he'll last till the late 1st. If he's there I think he deserves strong consideration.

Also Landry's time was extremely fast I didn't think he'd do that. I think he's a top 10 lock now.

I also heard Hughes ran in the 4.7s. I try not to go crazy over 40 times but for a DB that's pretty rediculous. He might fall to the 3rd round now.

[#27TheDominator]

Leon Hall solidified himself as a first rounder, most likely. But I'd be wary of him; he's probably been working towards this from the end of his season because he was viewed as a slow corner in college (I believe he was timed last year at 4.5). Houston moved up a lot, I think if he's there in the first second round pick I would take him. And Ross slipped down from this. He's probably no better than a second rounder now..

It seems like too many guys are running in the 4.3s. It's getting ridiculous. Are these guys getting faster, is the timing or mechanism different or have these guys been faster than I thought for the last few years? I remember when 4.5 was flying.

[gang_green03]

It seems like too many guys are running in the 4.3s. It's getting ridiculous. Are these guys getting faster, is the timing or mechanism different or have these guys been faster than I thought for the last few years? I remember when 4.5 was flying.

I think its a combination of guys getting faster and better speed training.

[Sperm Edwards]

They should make these guys run in full pads. Who gives a crap how fast they are in gym shorts on an indoor track?

[DaBrick Wall]

It seems like too many guys are running in the 4.3s. It's getting ridiculous. Are these guys getting faster, is the timing or mechanism different or have these guys been faster than I thought for the last few years? I remember when 4.5 was flying.

That's why you shouldn't put too much stock in combine workouts at all. The 40 time especially doesn't make much sense to me because, first, there are pretty much no times during a game when players run a straight 40-yard sprint, and, secondly, players don't wear a T-shirt and shorts on the field. The combine can be used as somewhat of a measuring stick between players but it shouldn't be the only thing or even the major thing. There have been plenty of players who have aced every combine test because they spend the entire time from the end of their season until the combine preparing for it, and then bombed in the NFL. And there have been others who haven't shone at the combine and been Hall of Famers.

[gang_green03]

That's why you shouldn't put too much stock in combine workouts at all. The 40 time especially doesn't make much sense to me because, first, there are pretty much no times during a game when players run a straight 40-yard sprint, and, secondly, players don't wear a T-shirt and shorts on the field. The combine can be used as somewhat of a measuring stick between players but it shouldn't be the only thing or even the major thing. There have been plenty of players who have aced every combine test because they spend the entire time from the end of their season until the combine preparing for it, and then bombed in the NFL. And there have been others who haven't shone at the combine and been Hall of Famers.

I agree. I think you have to use it along with college play. I think, when evaluating a prospect, it should be something like:

1/3 on the field

1/3 combine and workouts

1/3 character, specifically work ethic

[DefenseWinsChampionships]

They should make these guys run in full pads. Who gives a crap how fast they are in gym shorts on an indoor track?

Exactly, good point.

[#27TheDominator]

The 40 makes perfect sense to me. Don't you guys think that speed is important? It's the best way to tell who is fastest. Sure it's not the be all end all, but it might be #1. Guys can always take to coaching and learn, hit the weight room and bulk up, but you are either fast or you are not. The combine is important because the combine is the one place where all the variables are equal. Unlike comparing pro-days where Va Tech would have 4 guys faster than anybody else.

I'm just wondering if they are timing faster at the combine to encourage bubble players (say CJ or Jarrett) to run there.

[johnny green balls]

The 40 makes perfect sense to me. Don't you guys think that speed is important? It's the best way to tell who is fastest. Sure it's not the be all end all, but it might be #1. Guys can always take to coaching and learn, hit the weight room and bulk up, but you are either fast or you are not. The combine is important because the combine is the one place where all the variables are equal. Unlike comparing pro-days where Va Tech would have 4 guys faster than anybody else.

not surprised, look who they had firing the starting gun

[Sperm Edwards]

The 40 makes perfect sense to me. Don't you guys think that speed is important? It's the best way to tell who is fastest. Sure it's not the be all end all, but it might be #1. Guys can always take to coaching and learn, hit the weight room and bulk up, but you are either fast or you are not. The combine is important because the combine is the one place where all the variables are equal. Unlike comparing pro-days where Va Tech would have 4 guys faster than anybody else.

I'm just wondering if they are timing faster at the combine to encourage bubble players (say CJ or Jarrett) to run there.

Speed in ideal conditions isn't the same as speed in full pads, as you well know. Terrell Davis ran like a 4.6 at his combine I think. Saw him run away from people plenty. Martin supposedly ran a 4.3 (or so the papers said at the time) in the off-season before '99. On the field he never ran like that. Dedric Ward was a track star sprinter in college. In pads he was pretty fast but we all saw him get caught from behind or fail to get separation many times. Some guys just run a lot slower in pads. Some guys - even little guys - are still burners even with all their gear on (Santana Moss, Steve Smith, etc).

They should have them run in pads. Have a group of people check them out to make sure it's playing-caliber equipment or have them choose a set of pads & a helmet from an equipment table. But something.

[gang_green03]

Speed in ideal conditions isn't the same as speed in full pads, as you well know. Terrell Davis ran like a 4.6 at his combine I think. Saw him run away from people plenty. Martin supposedly ran a 4.3 (or so the papers said at the time) in the off-season before '99. On the field he never ran like that. Dedric Ward was a track star sprinter in college. In pads he was pretty fast but we all saw him get caught from behind or fail to get separation many times. Some guys just run a lot slower in pads. Some guys - even little guys - are still burners even with all their gear on (Santana Moss, Steve Smith, etc).

They should have them run in pads. Have a group of people check them out to make sure it's playing-caliber equipment or have them choose a set of pads & a helmet from an equipment table. But something.

I think the system is fine as long as you don't look at the 40 time in a vacuum. If a player runs a fast 40 but doesn't show any of that speed on the field than you must be wary of it, but if a player runs a fast 40 and it's also near their game speed than its fine.

There's no problem with the system. It's more about the people analyzing the system being the problem if they don't use common sense.

[SickJetFan]

I think it was a Bradway joke. But just don't make eye contact and keep walking.

Hey thanks for the info. I can't wait for free agency to start. So I know what positions the Jets will stress about in the draft.

Dont be so sure - I expect them to sign some FA's in the same position as they draft. This aint a herm/bradway team no more. you just never know what your gonna get. as it should be.

[Maxman]

I agree. I think you have to use it along with college play. I think, when evaluating a prospect, it should be something like:

1/3 on the field

1/3 combine and workouts

1/3 character, specifically work ethic

Those ratios are off but I get your point. On the field stuff has to account for more. Character would count a little less. The Hall Of Fame is filled with some not so nice guys.

[JetCane]

It was a mild swipe at the Eric Smith pick, yes. Didn't he run like a 4.7?

Yep, just about.

4.69 4.67

I heard the Pats may be looking at Merriweather.

[gang_green03]

Those ratios are off but I get your point. On the field stuff has to account for more. Character would count a little less. The Hall Of Fame is filled with some not so nice guys.

I shouldn't have said "character." When I said that I really was meaning work ethic. I don't want a lazy player cause that's how a lot of busts happen even if their talented.

I think on the field and talent have to be weighted almost equally. I agree with you in that I might give the slight edge to production. Like if players were equal or fairly close talent wise then I'd take the one who produced more. But I don't think it can be weighted a whole lot more cause its a different game and there are players who can be very productive in college, but just don't have the talent to play at a high level in the pros. There are a lot of other things that account for production like the team you're on, the talent around you, the competition, etc. The same things can't be said for raw talent. I know its an extreme example but would you take Garrett Wolfe over Marshawn Lynch? He produced more than Lynch in college.

[#27TheDominator]

Speed in ideal conditions isn't the same as speed in full pads, as you well know. Terrell Davis ran like a 4.6 at his combine I think. Saw him run away from people plenty. Martin supposedly ran a 4.3 (or so the papers said at the time) in the off-season before '99. On the field he never ran like that. Dedric Ward was a track star sprinter in college. In pads he was pretty fast but we all saw him get caught from behind or fail to get separation many times. Some guys just run a lot slower in pads. Some guys - even little guys - are still burners even with all their gear on (Santana Moss, Steve Smith, etc).

They should have them run in pads. Have a group of people check them out to make sure it's playing-caliber equipment or have them choose a set of pads & a helmet from an equipment table. But something.

I agree that football speed and 40 times aren't always the same, but it's a fairly accurate gauge. Pads and grass would be nice, but everybody wears different pads, some of those blocking shoulder pads, etc. are way more obtrusive than wr pads. I think the difference to football speed has more to do with decisiveness. Look at Bryan Thomas for instance. He looks like he thinks about where he should be and then runs there, while a more natural player just busts to the spot. Not to pick on Bryan Thomas, but that's what I see, it's not that he isn't acually fast.

Signed,

4.86 on grass, but in shorts and t-shirt.

[Ryno the Jet]

Houston is sooooooooooooooooooo goooooooooooooooood! His height scared me at first, but there is just way too much upside for this kid. I wish, oh how I wish, the Jets could land him, but that likely won't happen.