Why do 80% or more of New York fans hate their QBs even though they're not that bad?

[Barton]

A few select people on here seem to think regarless that I want Chad as our QB, sure I like the guy and all he has done for the JETS... but if there is an upgrade I wouldnt be against it... I just would want to know its a sure upgrade... if its not you piss off Chad, and all of the players around him for screwing up.

Oh, so you admit it. You have the "fear of worse" syndrome.

Its ok, mediocrity isnt that bad.......

[ECURB]

Oh, so you admit it. You have the "fear of worse" syndrome.

Its ok, mediocrity isnt that bad.......

I dont fear anything, I along with players and coaches from the NYJ think Chad Pennington can and will get the job done in 07'.

I dont fear anything, you fear that we cant win with Chad. I am 100% confident that Mangini will put the BEST team on the field... not just to win easy game, but to take us deep into the playoffs.

Your the one who fears something, not me.

[Barton]

I dont fear anything, I along with players and coaches from the NYJ think Chad Pennington can and will get the job done in 07'.

I dont fear anything, you fear that we cant win with Chad. I am 100% confident that Mangini will put the BEST team on the field... not just to win easy game, but to take us deep into the playoffs.

Your the one who fears something, not me.

Sorry but you saying you want an upgrade only if it is a "sure upgrade" is very telling.

Clemens cant be a sure upgrade until he plays, so you're in fear that the Jets would be worse off with him at Qb than Chad.

[Pragmatic Bus]

chad will never be what we drafted him to be as long as we still play in the meadowlands. yeah IF jets decide to move to LA. yeah mabe he can be the guy

[Jet Moses]

I bet half the guys on this board badmouthin' Chad couldn't even catch one of his passes.

[Sperm Edwards]

Brady was 2-3 .... if our D would have held up Peyton Chad would have been 2-2...

My point is to show that you lose to good teams... it happens...

Dude, Brady was 7-2 against teams with winning records last year:

W Jets (1-0 entering game)

W Bengals (3-0 entering game)

W Vikings (4-2 entering game)

L Colts (7-0 entering game)

W Bears (9-1 entering game)

W Jaguars (8-6 entering game)

W Titans (8-7 entering game)

W Jets (10-6 entering game; playoffs)

L Colts (14-4 entering game; playoffs)

And was 1-2 vs .500 teams:

W Bills (0-0 entering game)

L Broncos (1-1 entering game)

L Jets (4-4 entering game)

Teams .500 or better entering the game he was 8-4. You're manipulating #'s so you're counting wins/losses to Brady against the Broncos, Jaguars, & Titans twice because you're including the NE game. And you're counting games they won/lost AFTER Brady played them to determine whether they were >.500 or not. Broncos were not >.500 until they beat NE. Titans would have been >.500 if not for NE beating them. Jags & Vikings were 2 games above .500 when NE beat them. And though they finished 8-8 (like the Titans & Jaguars), you're counting the (then) 3-0 Bengals as a .500 or worse team when NE beat them.

Stop comparing Chad to the most successful QB of our era. It's pointless.

[Barton]

I bet half the guys on this board badmouthin' Chad couldn't even catch one of his passes.

I have caught passes from QBs on my high school team who throw 2X harder than Chad.

Not like that has anything to do with this arguement though, as by NFL standards, and NFL standards only, Chad has a weak pathetic throwing arm.

I'll take Chad for a backyard game anyday tho.......

[Jet Moses]

I have caught passes from QBs on my high school team who throw 2X harder than Chad.

What division I schools they playing for now, Bart?

[Barton]

So why aren't they in the NFL today, Bart?

.....who f'n knows they're still in high school.....(edit, 1 kids going to south carolina BTW)

You're missing the point though....Chads arm BY NFL STANDARDS, is weak. Thats all that matters. I dont give a flying f$&^ if his arm is 20x stronger than mine (it definetly isnt I can guarantee you that) or anyone elses, the point is BY NFL STANDARDS, his arm is a fricking running joke around the league.

Its pathetic to watch a defender turn around, close on the ball and knock it down because Chad couldnt zip it in there quick enough.

[Jet Moses]

.....who f'n knows they're still in high school.....

You're missing the point though....Chads arm BY NFL STANDARDS, is weak. Thats all that matters. I dont give a flying f$&^ if his arm is 20x stronger than mine (it definetly isnt I can guarantee you that) or anyone elses, the point is BY NFL STANDARDS, his arm is a fricking running joke around the league.

Its pathetic to watch a defender turn around, close on the ball and knock it down because Chad couldnt zip it in there quick enough.

You're right.

Parcells, who drafted him, is an idiot. Mangini, who started him, with the Patrick Ramsey on the roster, is also an idiot. Tannenbaum, who passed on Jay Cutler and Vince Young, is also an idiot.

By golly, we need Jeff George or Ryan Leaf. Somebody who can break fingers when he throws it.

[JetCane]

.....who f'n knows they're still in high school.....(edit, 1 kids going to south carolina BTW)

Is it Stephen Garcia (Jefferson Senior HS)?

He's the only new QB commit to So.Carolina I can find.

[MTJ06]

I dont fear anything, I along with players and coaches from the NYJ think Chad Pennington can and will get the job done in 07'.

How does Mangini like his coffee in the morning.......

[Barton]

Is it Stephen Garcia (Jefferson Senior HS)?

He's the only new QB commit to So.Carolina I can find.

Nah, I think he's gonna change positions, but he was a QB in high school! LOL

[ECURB]

You're right.

Parcells, who drafted him, is an idiot. Mangini, who started him, with the Patrick Ramsey on the roster, is also an idiot. Tannenbaum, who passed on Jay Cutler and Vince Young, is also an idiot.

By golly, we need Jeff George or Ryan Leaf. Somebody who can break fingers when he throws it.

They will think of an excuse... its all part of the master plan.. Chad cant win, they know it... they just play him for the hell of it...

[Barton]

You're right.

Parcells, who drafted him, is an idiot. Mangini, who started him, with the Patrick Ramsey on the roster, is also an idiot. Tannenbaum, who passed on Jay Cutler and Vince Young, is also an idiot.

By golly, we need Jeff George or Ryan Leaf. Somebody who can break fingers when he throws it.

yawn

Penny was fine pre-surgery, his arm was probably barely good enough. Not a bad pick by Parcells as Pennington isnt half the player he once was. So nice try jetmo.

And Ramsey sucked, Penny beat him out as rightfully so. Doesnt mean jack sh#t to beat out a guy like Ramsey who was given his last chance he'll ever get to be a starter - and bombed.

Tannenbaum didnt pass on Vince Young, Young was taken the pick before us. Obviously, they loved this Kellen Clemens guy after Schott had a private workout with him, so they went with the safe pick and took the LT.

Horrible spin attempt, jetmo. You cant admit pennys arm is pathetic*? Christ.

*by nfl standards

[Jet Moses]

They will think of an excuse... its all part of the master plan.. Chad cant win, they know it... they just play him for the hell of it...

YOu don't understand. Kellen Clemens is the next Dan Fouts. Only Eric Mangini and Brian Schottenheimer are too stupid to see that.

I'm mailing Woody Johnson a letter first thing Monday morning. I want him to take another look at Bartons resume.

There has to be something he missed.

[Barton]

They will think of an excuse... its all part of the master plan.. Chad cant win, they know it... they just play him for the hell of it...

ooooooo I love that chad pennington. Post rotator cuff injury numbers are as follows.......

26TDs - 25 INTs

Still laughing your a%% off ecurb?

[Barton]

YOu don't understand. Kellen Clemens is the next Dan Fouts. Only Eric Mangini and Brian Schottenheimer are too stupid to see that.

I'm mailing Woody Johnson a letter first thing Monday morning. I want him to take another look at Bartons resume.

There has to be something he missed.

When Clemens is starting and Pennington is out of here, I will send in your resume.

[Jet Moses]

In fact, I'm gonna send Woody my resume as well. I knew a kid in HS who could throw a football 75 yards, flat-footed.

Dam*nit, he should be starting for the Jets right now!

[Barton]

In fact, I'm gonna send Woody my resume as well. I knew a kid in HS who could throw a football 75 yards, flat-footed.

Dam*nit, he should be starting for the Jets right now!

You act like I'm pickin a UDFA with a strong arm and saying he should be starting.

Hey smart guy - the Jets traded up for Kellen Clemens for a reason.........wait nah, couldnt be!

[JetCane]

In fact, I'm gonna send Woody my resume as well. I knew a kid in HS who could throw a football 75 yards, flat-footed.

Dam*nit, he should be starting for the Jets right now!

Is it Stephen Garcia (Jefferson Senior HS)?

I cant let that research go to waste. LOL

[Jet Moses]

You act like I'm pickin a UDFA with a strong arm and saying he should be starting.

Hey smart guy - the Jets traded up for Kellen Clemens for a reason.........wait nah, couldnt be!

Yeah but, you have to be sure-

Can Kellen Clemens throw the ball harder than the guys you played with in HS?

[Jet Moses]

Is it Stephen Garcia (Jefferson Senior HS)?

I cant let that research go to waste. LOL

No, his name was Johnny Voigt (no relation to the actor lol). He was a great pitcher, too. Liked to smoke pot and drink 5ths of whiskey. He's shot to hell these days, I'm actually surprised he's even still alive.

[Barton]

Is it Stephen Garcia (Jefferson Senior HS)?

I cant let that research go to waste. LOL

PM sent

jetmo. I'm done with this thread. You're jokes are cute though, I will always have something to laugh at now.

[JetCane]

No, his name was Johnny Voigt (no relation to the actor lol). He was a great pitcher, too. Liked to smoke pot and drink 5ths of whiskey. He's shot to hell these days, I'm actually surprised he's even still alive.

He was a product of the times in which he grew up. Sometimes I'm surprised I am still alive, too.

[Jet Moses]

PM sent

jetmo. I'm done with this thread. You're jokes are cute though, I will always have something to laugh at now.

Here's the thing, Bart.

If Mangini goes with Clemens this year, I have zero problem with that. Because I have complete faith in Mangini's talent evaluation and decision making. I'll root as hard for Clemens as I do for Chad, as I did for Vinny, and as I did for Boomer, Browning, Neil, and yes, even Bubby.

But if he goes with Chad-

All I'm gonna hear from you is micro-analysis every time Chad throws a pass that you deem unacceptable, and pissing and moaning and what not. If thats your trip, have at it. You've been a Jet fan for all of 5 minutes, you think you know all there is to know, and I know it's not in you to take the high road, to show the same respect for Chad Pennington or Eric Mangini if Pennington is named the starter.

But lets be clear on this, if and when Clemens does get his shot, and he bombs out like Bollinger or Browning Nagle?

Your *ss is grass, and I'm the lawn mower. I am going to ride you harder than anybody I ever did on the JI political board.

For every time I have had to endure one of your annoying, aggravating, more often than not PETTY Chad bashing posts, you're gonna get it back in spades.

[Barton]

Here's the thing, Bart.

If Mangini goes with Clemens this year, I have zero problem with that. Because I have complete faith in Mangini's talent evaluation and decision making. I'll root as hard for Clemens as I do for Chad, as I did for Vinny, and as I did for Boomer, Browning, Neil, and yes, even Bubby.

But if he goes with Chad-

All I'm gonna hear from you is micro-analysis every time Chad throws a pass that you deem unacceptable, and pissing and moaning and what not. If thats your trip, have at it. You've been a Jet fan for all of 5 minutes, you think you know all there is to know, and I know it's not in you to take the high road, to show the same respect for Chad Pennington or Eric Mangini if Pennington is named the starter.

But lets be clear on this, if and when Clemens does get his shot, and he bombs out like Bollinger or Browning Nagle?

Your *ss is grass, and I'm the lawn mower. I am going to ride you harder than anybody I ever did on the JI political board.

For every time I have had to endure one of your annoying, aggravating, more often than not PETTY Chad bashing posts, you're gonna get it back in spades.

You dont get it.

I'm not saying Clemens is a sure bet - far from it. But I know for certain Chad isnt good enough and Clemens has the skills to be a superior QB. Whether he does succeed or not is anybodys guess.

But he will get his shot regardless. He was a high draft pick, he will see the field.

I'll always take my chances with a guy who has the skills to take us to the next level than a guy who simply does not.

[ECURB]

You dont get it.

I'm not saying Clemens is a sure bet - far from it. But I know for certain Chad isnt good enough and Clemens has the skills to be a superior QB. Whether he does succeed or not is anybodys guess.

But he will get his shot regardless. He was a high draft pick, he will see the field.

I'll always take my chances with a guy who has the skills to take us to the next level than a guy who simply does not.

Being a high draft pick doesnt mean he will see the field, he still needs to earn it.

Lets all hope Clemens is as great as you think he can be...

[Barton]

Being a high draft pick doesnt mean he will see the field, he still needs to earn it.

Lets all hope Clemens is as great as you think he can be...

Barring injury, he's a lock to see the field. There's no chance in hell he doesnt.

Only a matter of time, which is why I want to see him the starter Week 1 2007 because we are just delaying the inevitable by continuing to trot out a QB in Pennington who doesnt get the job done in the playoffs. The longer we wait to kick Pennington out, the more seasoning it will take for Clemens to be ready to get us to the next level (and thats if he pans out).

Its going to make or break Mangini's and Tannys HC and GM tenure with the Jets.

[AVM]

Barring injury, he's a lock to see the field.

IF Chad stays healthy the entire year, the only time Clemens sees the field is in garbage time of blowouts. Guarantee it.

[Barton]

IF Chad stays healthy the entire year, the only time Clemens sees the field is in garbage time of blowouts. Guarantee it.

I wouldnt be so sure of that. The Jets will have a very tough schedule, it could be a 7-9 type season, Clemens might take over the final few games and then become the starter in 2008.

Thats honestly how I would guess it goes down, but we'd be better off giving Clemens more time in 2007 than just a few games, as the more experience he gets in 2007, the better off he will be in 2008. Start him by at least week 4.

[AVM]

I wouldnt be so sure of that. The Jets will have a very tough schedule, it could be a 7-9 type season, Clemens might take over the final few games and then become the starter in 2008.

Thats honestly how I would guess it goes down, but we'd be better off giving Clemens more time in 2007 than just a few games, as the more experience he gets in 2007, the better off he will be in 2008. Start him by at least week 4.

I'll give you this much...if you're right, and things start off bad, much less really bad...yeah, it'll be Clemens. I just don't buy into this tougher schedule thing. Last year we were supposed to be a "real candidate for 0-16". Then we win 10 games and make the playoffs, and it was all because of an easy schedule. Well...either our team is a LOT better than advertised, or no one has any clue what theyre talking about when they look at a schedule in the offseason. Either way, theres no way to tell how tough a schedule is until youre already in the midst of it, imo.

[jetophile]

[PeterNorth09]

Barring injury, he's a lock to see the field. There's no chance in hell he doesnt.

Only a matter of time, which is why I want to see him the starter Week 1 2007 because we are just delaying the inevitable by continuing to trot out a QB in Pennington who doesnt get the job done in the playoffs. The longer we wait to kick Pennington out, the more seasoning it will take for Clemens to be ready to get us to the next level (and thats if he pans out).

Its going to make or break Mangini's and Tannys HC and GM tenure with the Jets.

I'm glad Mangini and Tanenbaum decided to bet the future of the Jets on a munchkin Jay Fiedler wannabe than Matt Leinart or Jay Cutler.

[Jet Moses]

You dont get it.

Whats not to get? You think you are smarter than Eric Mangini.

I'm not saying Clemens is a sure bet - far from it. But I know for certain Chad isnt good enough and Clemens has the skills to be a superior QB. Whether he does succeed or not is anybodys guess.

You know for certain how? Based on what? First of all, throw the Herm error out the window. That team was so mismanaged that you can't use it as a yardstick to accurately measure the players abilities, specifically the QB. All you need to understand that in the end, Chad Pennington was able to start 17 games after two shoulder surgeries.

Based on last year, we know this:

Chad has a weak arm. Will it grow stronger as he gets further away from his last surgery? I doubt it. But what the coaching staff, the medical staff, and Chad himself can do to compensate for that, they are in the process of doing right now. Chad needs to improve his throwing motion, he doesn't capitalize on his lower body strength, do create more throwing power. Chad has played behind POROUS offensive lines. The coaching staff drafted a tackle and a center in rounds one and two, they brought in a FB Darian Barnes this year, they are trying to find TE's who can block, because they know they need to give Chad another second or two to plant his feet properly.

The coaching staff has also improved the running game, killing two birds with one stone signing Barnes. They also picked up a 1300 yards per season work horse in Thomas Jones.

The only thing left to do now is improve the run defense, and I have no doubt that the draft and TC is going to address that, as well. This will give Chad at least a series or two more a game to score points.

You keep saying the obvious "Chad has a weak arm". The difference between me and you, is you assume that a weak armed QB cannot win in the NFL, whereas I see in Chad Pennington a number of skills that overcompensate for his throwing power. The guy must be doing something right- He's overcome two shoulder surgeries, HC coaching changes, 4 or 5 OC's, and they all seem to think he's the guy.

I don't think we've seen all their is to see from Chad Pennington. You do. You want to write him off. And thats fine, you're entitled to your opinion. But please accept the fact that if Eric Mangini disagrees with you, you will have to wear an *sshat.

But he will get his shot regardless. He was a high draft pick, he will see the field.

Once again, pure speculation. I can't make an argument for or against, because there isn't a body of work to base anything on. I'm just curious, other than the fact that Clemens was a "high draft pick" what else is it about him that you think he should start and Pennington should ride the bench?

I'll always take my chances with a guy who has the skills to take us to the next level than a guy who simply does not.

Again, you assert one guy "has the skills" and one guy doesn't. Is it safe for me to assume that what you really mean is one guy has a "strong arm" and one guy doesn't? Because if all you have is a redundant, perpetual "arm strength" argument, then it's baseless. There are countless guys who had rocket launchers for throwing arms who came into the NFL who s*cked snoballs.