100+ Million for 92 MPH .. Another Irabu?

[madmike1]

Yeah I see what you mean, Mike .. he can throw 100 MPH, but he chooses not too .. wouldn't be fair to the hitters .. heck, I heard he can hit 120 MPH on the Gun if he wants to, but he'd rather not, rather not display his awesome power to the rest of us mere mortals

With every stupid post like this that ignores the REAL reason people think this guy will be a good pitcher, you just continue to show how much of a homer you are. You're the kind of yankee fan that makes other teams fans hate yankee fans.

[Green Jets & Ham]

That just says he hit 100.....that in no way means the advance report on him was high 90's as you've been implying. He was predicted to be like Santana, a good fastball in the 90's with lights out off speed stuff.

I Get it now, at first I was missing it but now I Get it, this guy is like the secret agent man, he has this awesome power but he tries to keep it concealed .. so what we're really dealing with here is a super hero and not a man?

In that case, maybe the Gyroball is real too

[Green Jets & Ham]

MYTHsusaka .. AKA: Secret Agent Man .. AKA: Super Hero .. AKA: The Karate Man!

I'M A KARATE MAN .. KARATE MEN ONLY BRUISE ON THE INSIDE!!

[afosomf]

First of all i hate the Sux

You guys are missing the point in this $100m investment, $50m goes to diceK and the other $50m is an investment in japan, they will this $50m and more from NESN being televised in Japan and jersey sales!!!

Sh&t i got $460 for 2 dicek autographs, the Japanese have the dough and the Sux made a wise investment!!!!!!!!!!

[GimmeShelter]

I Get it now, at first I was missing it but now I Get it, this guy is like the secret agent man, he has this awesome power but he tries to keep it concealed .. so what we're really dealing with here is a super hero and not a man?

In that case, maybe the Gyroball is real too

Love your posts Ham but I think you've been hanging at JI too much unless this is just a thread to get on Mike's nerves. You have presented TX like nonsense in this discussion.

What we know about Dice is that everyone including the Yanks wanted the guy. Now that your team has lost out on the bid and by all accounts signed a question mark in comparison, you present us with this childish thread comparing him to Igawa who in Torre's words wasn't a lock for a roster spot until his last start accompanied with the other starters injuries.

[afosomf]

Love your posts Ham but I think you've been hanging at JI too much unless this is just a thread to get on Mike's nerves. You have presented TX like nonsense in this discussion.

What we know about Dice is that everyone including the Yanks wanted the guy. Now that your team has lost out on the bid and by all accounts signed a question mark in comparison, you present us with this childish thread comparing him to Igawa who in Torre's words wasn't a lock for a roster spot until his last start accompanied with the other starters injuries.

DiceK will get Sux 15 wins, not bad for a rook!!

When all is said and done, his contract will be very cheap as the Sux cash in on Japan market thru merchandise and TV revenue. The Japanese have lots of coin and spend it obsessively.

[PFSIKH]

With every stupid post like this that ignores the REAL reason people think this guy will be a good pitcher, you just continue to show how much of a homer you are. You're the kind of yankee fan that makes other teams fans hate yankee fans.

The irony of this post.

[madmike1]

The irony of this post.

Nah you're just the reason people hate boston fans. You're just as bad of a homer as green is. I wasn't talking about blind homers like you when i was saying that other teams fans might not like green...

[PFSIKH]

Nah you're just the reason people hate boston fans. You're just as bad of a homer as green is. I wasn't talking about blind homers like you when i was saying that other teams fans might not like green...

Hardly.

I call it as I see it. I am right on something things and wrong on others. I give props to the Yankees' players when it earned.

Unlike you, I do not ball wash ever Yankee player and prospect with no major league time. I also do not turn a blind eye to everything Yankee like you. Your mind is closed. You are the Yankee fan people hate. You think your **** does not stink and you drink Jeter's pee and say it's lemonade.

[madmike1]

Hardly.

I call it as I see it. I am right on something things and wrong on others. I give props to the Yankees' players when it earned.

Unlike you, I do not ball wash ever Yankee player and prospect with no major league time. I also do not turn a blind eye to everything Yankee like you. Your mind is closed. You are the Yankee fan people hate. You think your **** does not stink and you drink Jeter's pee and say it's lemonade.

So i guess the 500 pages or so of threads of me bashing yankee prospects, trades and FA signings in the past few months counts as ball washing huh? You call it as you see it, through the eyes of a homer and a baseball ignoramus.

[Green Jets & Ham]

Irabu was the "Fat Toad"

Can anyone come up with a nickname for this soon-to-be bust?

Seeing as the HIGH 90's Cheese was a total myth, and we know the same is true of that make-believe Gyroball, I think I discovered the perfect nickname for this sham artist

MYTHzuSucka

[madmike1]

Seeing as the HIGH 90's HEAT was a total myth, and we know the same is true of the Gyroball, I think I discovered the perfect nickname for this sham artist

MYTHzuSucka

Just ignore his 5 other Plus to plus-plus quality major league pitches... Thats a GREAT way to judge a player.

[afosomf]

Seeing as the HIGH 90's Cheese was a total myth, and we know the same is true of that make-believe Gyroball, I think I discovered the perfect nickname for this sham artist

MYTHzuSucka

Hammer- shouldn't you be worrying about M tuisapoopa?

[AFJF]

Randy Johnson sucked .. pitched like a washed up hasbeen .. I would have given him away for nothing .. I would have been thankful just to unload that bloated contract .. so needless to say I was thrilled to recieve something {anything} in return

Ham...here's the best part man. I mean..Mike used every BS stat he could pull out of his ass and said that every negative stat about RJ was misleading..but this is the one that took the cake..I'll break it down in bullets for you.

--RJs BABIP (batting average balls in play) was significantly higher than the league average. That's right...the vast majority of pitchers held hitters to a lower batting average than Randy when hitters made contact.

--This stat came as no surprise to me as I watched most of his starts last year and lets face it..he was throwing garbage up there and opposing hitters were crusing it. That's what happens when you throw garbage, teams crush it and hit for a high average.

--Mike used this argument to prove that RJ was very good last year. That's right. He said that because RJ's stuff was drilled all around the park, he must have been ulucky. Since his BABIP was riddiculosly higher than most other pitchers in MLB, it proved that Randy had an unlucky year. I kid you not, this was his argument. Basically, since Randy was so bad..it proves that he was pretty good... :rl:

[madmike1]

Ham...here's the best part man. I mean..Mike used every BS stat he could pull out of his ass and said that every negative stat about RJ was misleading..but this is the one that took the cake..I'll break it down in bullets for you.

--RJs BABIP (batting average balls in play) was significantly higher than the league average. That's right...the vast majority of pitchers held hitters to a lower batting average than Randy when hitters made contact.

--This stat came as no surprise to me as I watched most of his starts last year and lets face it..he was throwing garbage up there and opposing hitters were crusing it. That's what happens when you throw garbage, teams crush it and hit for a high average.

--Mike used this argument to prove that RJ was very good last year. That's right. He said that because RJ's stuff was drilled all around the park, he must have been ulucky. Since his BABIP was riddiculosly higher than most other pitchers in MLB, it proved that Randy had an unlucky year. I kid you not, this was his argument. Basically, since Randy was so bad..it proves that he was pretty good... :rl:

Except BABIP doesn't judge how bad or good a pitcher is. A great pitcher is just as likely to have a bad BABIP as a awful one and there is zero carry over from year to year with that stat... I have no idea why i'm wasting my time...

[AFJF]

Except BABIP doesn't judge how bad or good a pitcher is. A great pitcher is just as likely to have a bad BABIP as a awful one and there is zero carry over from year to year with that stat.

So then what stat were you using to say Randy was worth keeping around? His ERA? Nope. His BABIP? I hope not since it's not an accurate indicator. His HR allowed? Jesus christ I hope not. Well, he did have 17 wins but as you always say..that's a meaningless stat. Maybe you wanted to keep him because of how domnant he was in the post season...oops..maybe not. RJ on an average team could have easily been sub .500 last season. So he gave up a ton of homers, a ton of runs, was getting crushed when the ball was put in play, is a year older, coming off back surgery...but the Yankees should have kept him around at 17 mil per season....see what I mean about your credability Mike? No, of course you don't.

[madmike1]

So then what stat were you using to say Randy was worth keeping around? His ERA? Nope. His BABIP? I hope not since it's not an accurate indicator. His HR allowed? Jesus christ I hope not. Well, he did have 17 wins but as you always say..that's a meaningless stat. Maybe you wanted to keep him because of how domnant he was in the post season...oops..maybe not. RJ on an average team could have easily been sub .500 last season. So he gave up a ton of homers, a ton of runs, was getting crushed when the ball was put in play, is a year older, coming off back surgery...but the Yankees should have kept him around at 17 mil per season....see what I mean about your credability Mike? No, of course you don't.

His BAA was fine. His WHIP was good. His IP/H was good. His k/9 was good. His BB/K was very good. Those stats combined with his high BABIP shows that he was better then his ERA showed and he was worth a hell of alot more then what the yankees gave him away for.

[Green Jets & Ham]

Ham...here's the best part man. I mean..Mike used every BS stat he could pull out of his ass and said that every negative stat about RJ was misleading..but this is the one that took the cake..I'll break it down in bullets for you.

--RJs BABIP (batting average balls in play) was significantly higher than the league average. That's right...the vast majority of pitchers held hitters to a lower batting average than Randy when hitters made contact.

--This stat came as no surprise to me as I watched most of his starts last year and lets face it..he was throwing garbage up there and opposing hitters were crusing it. That's what happens when you throw garbage, teams crush it and hit for a high average.

--Mike used this argument to prove that RJ was very good last year. That's right. He said that because RJ's stuff was drilled all around the park, he must have been ulucky. Since his BABIP was riddiculosly higher than most other pitchers in MLB, it proved that Randy had an unlucky year. I kid you not, this was his argument. Basically, since Randy was so bad..it proves that he was pretty good... :rl:

This reminds of many years ago when George was still George, he paid a ton of money for Doyle Alexander and he couldn't get out of the second inning, frozen ropes all over the yard, so George had him shipped to Columbus

When asked how he could eat that contract and send DA to the minors, George responded ..

"I HAD NO CHOICE - HE WAS GONNA KILL ONE OF MY INFIELDERS"

.. and the same was true of Randy Johnson

[AFJF]

His BAA was fine. His WHIP was good. His IP/H was good. His k/9 was good. His BB/K was very good. Those stats combined with his high BABIP shows that he was better then his ERA showed and he was worth a hell of alot more then what the yankees gave him away for.

For the sake of this discussion I will pretend that any of that mattered last season. We'll pretend that RJ was "good" like all the numbers you pointed out and we'll play "ignore the bad stats" for just a second. If you think that a pitcher with "good" stats should be paid $17 million dollars coming off of back surgery then you're clearly a fan who expects the Yankees to throw money away on players who don't deserve it and to over pay for players past their prime. I'm glad Cashman has decided to go in a direction that says "if you're not worth anywhere near what we're paying you, you're gone" I'd prefer Petitte/Igawa over RJ any day of the week at this point in their respective careers. Like I've said a million times...let RJ go win another Cy Young in the desert, he didn't have the balls to pitch in the Bronx and whoever replaces him this season will give them a better chance to win. Releasing him outright would have been fine with me (and most fans who saw him last season)...getting a few bodies for him was robbery.

[AFJF]

This reminds of many years ago when George was still George, he paid a ton of money for Doyle Alexander and he couldn't get out of the second inning, frozen ropes all over the yard, so George had him shipped to Columbus

When asked how he could eat that contract and send DA to the minors, George responded ..

"I HAD NO CHOICE - HE WAS GONNA KILL ONE OF MY INFIELDERS"

.. and the same was true of Randy Johnson

Doyle Alexander

Ed Whitson

Randy Johnson

the three amigos

[Sharrow]

Finally, I'm to the last page!

It pains me to say that Ham has lost all baseball credibility in this thread. Not knowing the difference between what velocity a pitcher tops out at and where he sits? Thats almost as bad as Barton not knowing that hitters use pine tar and thinking that its illegal. Does Zumaya throw 103 mph every single pitch? Thats ridiculous. Its not suprising that none of the other yankee fans came in to back you up on your argument. Stick to the JI baseball forum.

Anyway, do you guys really think that Boston or anybody for that matter would bid on this guy without scouting him and seeing where his fastball sits for themselves, with their own scouts? Do you think that they rely on espn, etc. to know what his pitches looked like? Do you think espn, etc. scout him as much as MLB teams do?

I remember him dominating in the wbc, every one of his pitches is plus. I didn't see him in person in japan, as if seeing him from a dozen+ rows back would give me a better idea of his stuff than seeing a video w/zoom of it. If he fails in MLB it won't be because the guy can't pitch. If I had to put money on him being a huge failure or being successful, I would bet on the latter.

[madmike1]

For the sake of this discussion I will pretend that any of that mattered last season. We'll pretend that RJ was "good" like all the numbers you pointed out and we'll play "ignore the bad stats" for just a second. If you think that a pitcher with "good" stats should be paid $17 million dollars coming off of back surgery then you're clearly a fan who expects the Yankees to throw money away on players who don't deserve it and to over pay for players past their prime. I'm glad Cashman has decided to go in a direction that says "if you're not worth anywhere near what we're paying you, you're gone" I'd prefer Petitte/Igawa over RJ any day of the week at this point in their respective careers. Like I've said a million times...let RJ go win another Cy Young in the desert, he didn't have the balls to pitch in the Bronx and whoever replaces him this season will give them a better chance to win. Releasing him outright would have been fine with me (and most fans who saw him last season)...getting a few bodies for him was robbery.

So now in a market where no 5 starters are worth 55 million the yankees are all of a sudden going to get cheap and give a player who has value in this market because he's better then the majority of the FA pitchers available and is signed away for nothing as a salary dump. That sounds like a great idea. I'll say it again. if his name was Joe Smith and not randy johnson people would think the trade was a joke. he's a victim of his high expectations. Just because he didn't pitch like a cy young winning pitcher with the yankees doesn't mean giving him away for nothing was a good idea. The yankees spent 46 million dollars on Igawa who if he has Randy's peripherals from last year will be the toast of new york.

[AFJF]

So now in a market where no 5 starters are worth 55 million the yankees are all of a sudden going to get cheap .

Mike...there is cheap..and there is smart. In this situation the Yankees were smart. Cheap is refusing to pay a player what he's worth. Smart is willing to dump a player who's production is nowhere near justifying his salary.

[madmike1]

Mike...there is cheap..and there is smart. In this situation the Yankees were smart. Cheap is refusing to pay a player what he's worth. Smart is willing to dump a player who's production is nowhere near justifying his salary.

Paying Randy Johnson 17 million for one year is much more cost effective then paying Kei Igawa 46 million for 5 years. And just because a player is overpaid doesn't mean you dump them for nothing. If this really was a salary situation the yankees would've spent LESS MONEY THIS YEAR if they would've kept randy and let him walk at the end of the year rather then signing Igawa.

[AFJF]

Paying Randy Johnson 17 million for one year is much more cost effective then paying Kei Igawa 46 million for 5 years. And just because a player is overpaid doesn't mean you dump them for nothing. If this really was a salary situation the yankees would've spent LESS MONEY THIS YEAR if they would've kept randy and let him walk at the end of the year rather then signing Igawa.

--Igawa is younger

--It is highly unlikely that Igawa will be as bad as RJ was last season

--Igawas total dollar amount doesn't count for luxury tax purposes

--Igawa is not coming off of back surgery

--Igawa has not proven that he is not capable of pitching in the pressure packed NY market..RJ has

[Barton]

I gotta admit, Matsuzaka looked nasty the last time I saw him pitch. He's a little guy though but I dont think he's ever had injury problems, and dont they pitch on 6 days rest in Japan???

Igawa kinda crappy last time he pitched IMO, he was lucky to not get beaten up and down the ballpark. However, he does have better stuff than I imagined and if he can throw strikes he'll be a nice #4 or #5.

[GimmeShelter]

Finally, I'm to the last page!

It pains me to say that Ham has lost all baseball credibility in this thread. Not knowing the difference between what velocity a pitcher tops out at and where he sits? Thats almost as bad as Barton not knowing that hitters use pine tar and thinking that its illegal. Does Zumaya throw 103 mph every single pitch? Thats ridiculous. Its not suprising that none of the other yankee fans came in to back you up on your argument. Stick to the JI baseball forum.

Anyway, do you guys really think that Boston or anybody for that matter would bid on this guy without scouting him and seeing where his fastball sits for themselves, with their own scouts? Do you think that they rely on espn, etc. to know what his pitches looked like? Do you think espn, etc. scout him as much as MLB teams do?

I remember him dominating in the wbc, every one of his pitches is plus. I didn't see him in person in japan, as if seeing him from a dozen+ rows back would give me a better idea of his stuff than seeing a video w/zoom of it. If he fails in MLB it won't be because the guy can't pitch. If I had to put money on him being a huge failure or being successful, I would bet on the latter.

Good post Sharrow.

[Green Jets & Ham]

Its not suprising that none of the other yankee fans came in to back you up

.. and there goes your crediiblity right down the toilet

Stop it, Ham. Dice-K is no joke. Not only am I worried that the gyroball will strike out all the Yankee hitters every at-bat, I'm afraid it will come through the TV set and hurt my family.

Yep. He's all that. You bet.

Irabu was the "Fat Toad"

Can anyone come up with a nickname for this soon-to-be bust?

By the time he is done, he wont even be worth a nickname... just a plane ride home...

I expect him to confuse hitters for the first couple months and then get lit up like a christmas tree by the All-Star break.

LOL!!!!!!! VERY TRUTHFUL I MUST SAY

Referring to my initial post

[Sharrow]

.. and there goes your crediiblity right down the toilet

And all those quotes had one thing in common. No substance to them to help your argument. Not to mention that most were on the first page, before you made a fool of yourself, and before the argument even began.

[Green Jets & Ham]

And all those quotes had one thing in common. No substance to them to help your argument. Not to mention that most were on the first page, before you made a fool of yourself, and before the argument even began.

You didn't say none of the other Yankee fans came in after Page 3 to back you up, or none of the Yankee fans who backed you up offered anything of substance .. you said none of the other Yankee fans came in to back you up, and you were very wrong .. so either you didn't read the whole thread as you suggested, or your credibility just went right down the tubes

[Sharrow]

You're right. What I should have typed was "Its not suprising that none of the other yankee fans came in to back you up on your argument, after you made a fool of yourself." Sorry I didn't make myself more clear the first time.

[Green Jets & Ham]

You're right. What I should have typed was "Its not suprising that none of the other yankee fans came in to back you up on your argument, after you made a fool of yourself."

Yes, you should have, but you didn't, so your credibility is ZERO

As for who's making a fool out of themselves, that remains to be seen, this @$$clown has yet to throw a single pitch in major league baseball that matters, but already we're finding out the HIGH 90's Cheese was a myth, just like his make-believe Gyroball .. so maybe you're the fool for believing in fairy tales?

Nope, I'm sure of it, you are definitely the fool .. in fact you are the definition of a fool, because you bought into the myth hook, line and sinker

[Sharrow]

Yes, you should have, but you didn't, so your credibility is ZERO

As for who's making a fool out of themselves, that remains to be seen, this @$$clown has yet to throw a single pitch in major league baseball that matters, but already we're finding out the HIGH 90's Cheese was a myth, just like his make-believe Gyroball .. so maybe you're the fool for believing in fairy tales?

Nope, I'm sure of it, you are definitely the fool .. in fact you are the definition of a fool, because you bought into the myth hook, line and sinker

It doesn't matter how fast he throws to me, or if he throws a gyroball. Personally, I never read anywhere that his fastball sat in the high 90s, and I never believed he threw a gyroball, I still don't. The fact of the matter is that he was very successful in Japan and the WBC, and has also been successful in ST.

[madmike1]

--Igawa is younger

--It is highly unlikely that Igawa will be as bad as RJ was last season

--Igawas total dollar amount doesn't count for luxury tax purposes

--Igawa is not coming off of back surgery

--Igawa has not proven that he is not capable of pitching in the pressure packed NY market..RJ has

If Iagwa pitches 200+ Innings giving up 190 Hits with a 1.24 WHIP, a 250 BAA, a 3.5/1 K/BB and over 8k9 people will call cashman a genius. But they just traded a guy who did that for nothing.

[Green Jets & Ham]

It doesn't matter how fast he throws to me, or if he throws a gyroball. Personally, I never read anywhere that his fastball sat in the high 90s, and I never believed he threw a gyroball, I still don't. The fact of the matter is that he was very successful in Japan and the WBC, and has also been successful in ST.

Maybe he will be good, you don't have to be a flame-thrower to succeed, and you don't need a make-believe Gyroball either .. I'm just saying this guy doesn't come "AS ADVERTISED"

That's all I'm saying, and I'm speaking the truth, there is no Gyroball and there is no HIGH 90's heat .. that was a myth .. we'll findout what that means when he actually pitches in the majors, but I'd be a little worried if I spent 120 Million on some guy who was supposed to be a flame-thrower and he turned out to have just an AVERAGE FASTBALL .. 120 Million Dollars is a lot of coin, you would hope you can at least get what you paid for, you would hope the actual product looks as good as the picture in the advertisement