With the First pick in the 2008 NFL Draft, the NY Jets select.........

[PETROCK]

Um why? I love how everyone has been saying this crap about Mangini will make some retarded pick but WTF? What basis do you have to make these statements?

I'm a stupid, uneducated Jets fan so what does it matter what basis I have?

[Iceman88]

People we have much bigger needs than QB especially since we have a capable starter riding the bench. IF WE DRAFT A QB IN ROUND 1 THIS FO IS RETARDED. We need much more help with the defensive front 7, either a stud DE or an OLB. Chris Long fits those needs, even Bitonti agrees with me which means I am right!

[CoachTsurfing]

People we have much bigger needs than QB especially since we have a capable starter riding the bench. IF WE DRAFT A QB IN ROUND 1 THIS FO IS RETARDED. We need much more help with the defensive front 7, either a stud DE or an OLB. Chris Long fits those needs, even Bitonti agrees with me which means I am right!

Well, not sure that makes you right. Long would be a great choice. I really hope that Clemens is the real deal, then we won't have to waste our high first round pick on a QB. I just hope Clemens gets to prove he can handle the QB spot. If not. QB is the way to go. I want the jets to have a peyton manning or dan marino type QB once in my lifetime.

[Mistalava]

Well, not sure that makes you right. Long would be a great choice. I really hope that Clemens is the real deal, then we won't have to waste our high first round pick on a QB. I just hope Clemens gets to prove he can handle the QB spot. If not. QB is the way to go. I want the jets to have a peyton manning or dan marino type QB once in my lifetime.

All the more reason to start KC for the rest of the season -- starting NOW!

[PETROCK]

People we have much bigger needs than QB especially since we have a capable starter riding the bench. IF WE DRAFT A QB IN ROUND 1 THIS FO IS RETARDED. We need much more help with the defensive front 7, either a stud DE or an OLB. Chris Long fits those needs, even Bitonti agrees with me which means I am right!

One stud D or O player doesn't make the line great. Ok Mr. right. I've argued with biotini for years & I'm done with arguing with him. He's always right. He was sooooo right about getting Doug Jolley. Everyone preached that when the Jets drafted Ferguson they need to bolster the front line & the result has been what?? A small lineman & a small front line for that matter, that has been manhandled by bigger defensive linemen. We do need a bigger line on O & D. Plain & simple. But Maningi doesn't seem to think it's important because he hasn't done anything about it. He can make those trades & acquire players during the year so that when Draft Day does come around there is an O line set in place so the newly drafted QB won't get killed. I know you're going to say...it takes time to get the right combination of men on the line. It just doesn't happen overnight. No kidding. This season is a bust. Bring BIG & established players in now & spend some money & put them on the O line & get things together.

[Iceman88]

Well, not sure that makes you right. Long would be a great choice. I really hope that Clemens is the real deal, then we won't have to waste our high first round pick on a QB. I just hope Clemens gets to prove he can handle the QB spot. If not. QB is the way to go. I want the jets to have a peyton manning or dan marino type QB once in my lifetime.

I was kind of joking about the whole making me right thing. However if the FO feels the need to draft a QB in the first round after just two years ago spending a high second round pick on a QB they should be fired. The biggest decision you make as a head coach is finding your franchise QB, Mangini chose Clemens, he doesn't get a second chance.

[#27TheDominator]

I was kind of joking about the whole making me right thing. However if the FO feels the need to draft a QB in the first round after just two years ago spending a high second round pick on a QB they should be fired. The biggest decision you make as a head coach is finding your franchise QB, Mangini chose Clemens, he doesn't get a second chance.

A quarterback is a quarterback, he doesn't become a "franchise qb" until the franchise invests in him. The Jets have a second round pick invested in him, nothing more. If he were a cb we wouldn't even be shocked if he never started. Even most good qbs are not "franchise players". Mangini hasn't "chosen Clemens" to be his franchise qb, he hasn't even chosen him to be his starter. They burned a 2nd on him unaware Pennington would even be able to play again.

By your standards if you picked Tony Banks in '96 you should be fired for picking Peyton Manning two years later. I say you should be fired if you don't.

[afosomf]

A quarterback is a quarterback, he doesn't become a "franchise qb" until the franchise invests in him. The Jets have a second round pick invested in him, nothing more. If he were a cb we wouldn't even be shocked if he never started. Even most good qbs are not "franchise players". Mangini hasn't "chosen Clemens" to be his franchise qb, he hasn't even chosen him to be his starter. They burned a 2nd on him unaware Pennington would even be able to play again.

By your standards if you picked Tony Banks in '96 you should be fired for picking Peyton Manning two years later. I say you should be fired if you don't.

If EM doesn't like KC as his franchise qb, we could have recooped a 2nd/3rd pick to either chi/az/atl/car

this is assinine by EM. not only will this year be wasted but so will next year

[#27TheDominator]

If EM doesn't like KC as his franchise qb, we could have recooped a 2nd/3rd pick to either chi/az/atl/car

this is assinine by EM. not only will this year be wasted but so will next year

Do you know what the term franchise means? You don't trade a "franchise" player for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. He could be a very good starting qb and not sniff franchise level, and even if he were it would not stop me from drafting the next Peyton Manning if I felt he were available.

What is assinine is expecting to have only one qb for the season. You don't trade EVERY player you can for picks. Everybody is so unhappy that the team is 1-5 and now you want to trade everybody for picks that nobody is offering.

[afosomf]

Do you know what the term franchise means? You don't trade a "franchise" player for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. He could be a very good starting qb and not sniff franchise level, and even if he were it would not stop me from drafting the next Peyton Manning if I felt he were available.

What is assinine is expecting to have only one qb for the season. You don't trade EVERY player you can for picks. Everybody is so unhappy that the team is 1-5 and now you want to trade everybody for picks that nobody is offering.

I said if EM does not like KC as our QB of the future, he could have recooped

our 2nd rd pick and go for 1 of top 3 qb prospects in 2008 draft

it is obvious to me that EM doesn't think highly of KC

[serphnx]

I said if EM does not like KC as our QB of the future, he could have recooped

our 2nd rd pick and go for 1 of top 3 qb prospects in 2008 draft

it is obvious to me that EM doesn't think highly of KC

That's why I've said it's a bad pick for 2 years now. The hell with what Jaws says. If you can't at least outplay Patrick Ramsey on natural talent, then there are some serious problems!

[#27TheDominator]

I said if EM does not like KC as our QB of the future, he could have recooped

our 2nd rd pick and go for 1 of top 3 qb prospects in 2008 draft

it is obvious to me that EM doesn't think highly of KC

You have absolutely no idea how highly Mangini thinks of Clemens. None. He's tightlipped about everything. You also have no idea whatsoever what may have been offered if they put him on the trade market. Getting a 2nd for him is pure speculation, the same as your theory about getting a #2 for Pennington earlier in the season. That wasn't even educated speculation, it was just crap. .

Not to mention that we then have a brittle starter with Tuiasosopo as a backup. Maybe Mangini is bringing Clemens along slowly. It's not unusual for qbs to take a few seasons as back up before they take over. Shocking I know, but it happens. Why trade our qb for another 2nd rounder that will then have to learn the system AND the NFL game?

[afosomf]

You have absolutely no idea how highly Mangini thinks of Clemens. None. He's tightlipped about everything. You also have no idea whatsoever what may have been offered if they put him on the trade market. Getting a 2nd for him is pure speculation, the same as your theory about getting a #2 for Pennington earlier in the season. That wasn't even educated speculation, it was just crap. .

Not to mention that we then have a brittle starter with Tuiasosopo as a backup. Maybe Mangini is bringing Clemens along slowly. It's not unusual for qbs to take a few seasons as back up before they take over. Shocking I know, but it happens. Why trade our qb for another 2nd rounder that will then have to learn the system AND the NFL game?

why you ask.....................?????

cause this season is over!!! Over with a capital O.

with 3 stud QBs in draft horizon it is time to evaluate Clemens, by not playing

KC it is obvious to most that EM is not enamored with KC, cause it continues

to play a QB that cannot throw a frozen rope 5 yds. By not playing KC it tells me that KC maybe wasn't such a good choice and maybe trading him to a desperate team is the way to go. IF KC has the goods then EM is even dumber than Hermie. Hermie is dumb due to lack of a brain, EM is dumber

cause he has a brain and doesn't know how to use it

this season is a bad joke, we cannot even blame injuries

just

Poor QB play, a D not suited to the 3-4 and overall poor coaching, gameplans

and everything under the sun

This season is Kotiteesque without the funny quotes from Richie that

at least made me laugh once in a while

Mangini has been Kotitesian since Camera gate, the team has no clue since

then

Clear now skippy

[serphnx]

Maybe Mangini is bringing Clemens along slowly. It's not unusual for qbs to take a few seasons as back up before they take over. Shocking I know, but it happens. Why trade our qb for another 2nd rounder that will then have to learn the system AND the NFL game?

Actually it is EXTREMELY unusual to have someone you're projecting to be a starting QB sit on the bench for 2 years. It's one thing to have a late round pick or undrafted QB sit on the bench, you don't expect him to do anything. But if you're drafting a guy in the first 2 rounds? There are only 2 QBs in the past 25+ years that have sat for 2 years, Chad Pennington and Philip Rivers.

What that tells me is if Clemens still isn't ready, he will likely never be. Granted he still has a few weeks left, but you do not want to be known for sitting on the bench for an extended period of time to start your career.

[Sperm Edwards]

Actually it is EXTREMELY unusual to have someone you're projecting to be a starting QB sit on the bench for 2 years. It's one thing to have a late round pick or undrafted QB sit on the bench, you don't expect him to do anything. But if you're drafting a guy in the first 2 rounds? There are only 2 QBs in the past 25+ years that have sat for 2 years, Chad Pennington and Philip Rivers.

What that tells me is if Clemens still isn't ready, he will likely never be. Granted he still has a few weeks left, but you do not want to be known for sitting on the bench for an extended period of time to start your career.

Worse still, Rivers was on the bench his 2nd year b/c Brees was a pro-bowl QB both seasons. Clemens is sitting behind a QB who had 17 TD's and 20 turnovers last year & has a 1-4 record this year. Three straight awful losses, the first two of which Pennington threw two 4th-quarter TD's in EACH of them. And Clemens is still #2 on the depth chart.

There is one more though. Aaron Rodgers was drafted in round one in 2005 & is spending his 3rd season on the bench.

[PaJetFan]

I thought Steve Young sat behind Joe Montana for several years...no?

[Sperm Edwards]

I thought Steve Young sat behind Joe Montana for several years...no?

SF didn't draft Young.

[angry jets fan]

Trade down ... e.g. with the Cowboys ...

Draft Malcom Jenkins (CB) ... next draft some size and toughness on the OL and DL (NT, OG, OT, etc.)

[K2C]

Build nothing around Vilma. If he's not traded, let him play out the last year of his rookie contract & that's that. He sucks. Certainly hasn't warranted an extension with an 8-figures signing bonus.

See 3-4.

[K2C]

Jets won't be looking for a QB with the first pick if KC pans out terribly. For one drafting a kid that early already takes faith out of the guys hands. But look at the prospects at QB (worthy of a 1st rder).

Andre Woodson (Kentucky) - Before teams roll out the red carpet, this is the same program which in recent years spit out Tim Couch and our well beloved D.Rob in the top-5 picks. Have any players even panned out from the program? Point being steer clear.

Matt Ryan (BC) - Kids got smarts and accuracy but not a big time arm. Jets fans sound familiar?

Brian Brohme (Louisville) - Like this kid, but if Atlanta has a pick before us you could almost expect Petrino grabbing him. Also the injuries have to raise eyebrows and scare Jets fans.

Colt Brennan (Hawaii) - I really liked this kid stats alot,then I saw him play.. Anybody taking this guy as a top 10 pick is reaching pretty far. He's not too big, forces many balls in, and his stats are from a pass-happy offense. Throw in his character issues of being thrown out of Colorado as a freshman and thats a huge white flag to steer clear of him.

Vince Young>Woodson

Ryan...Eh.

Brohm...Eh.

Brennan...Good player..not going to have an arm left when he gets to the NFL throwing 75 passes a game at UH.

[JetCane]

Um why? I love how everyone has been saying this crap about Mangini will make some retarded pick but WTF? What basis do you have to make these statements?

Easy. This is the same franchise that selected browning nagle and blair thomas, and passed on Ed Reed and Warren Sapp.

Say hello to Underwood, Tiquan (WR) Rutgers University

[Sperm Edwards]

See 3-4.

See what 3-4?

He's not worth a giant contract extension even if we went back to the 4-3 full-time.

[K2C]

See what 3-4?

He's not worth a giant contract extension even if we went back to the 4-3 full-time.

I disagree.

Vilma made play after play in the 4-3 defense.

He led the league in tackles and was a dominant force in the middle.

He was seemingly in on every play..not to mention his leadership skills and his ability to get his defense fired up.

[Sperm Edwards]

I disagree.

Vilma made play after play in the 4-3 defense.

He led the league in tackles and was a dominant force in the middle.

He was seemingly in on every play..not to mention his leadership skills and his ability to get his defense fired up.

Yeah, he was in on plenty of plays, & it seemed like almost every one of them was a first down for the offense. But he sure did a good job of (eventually) bringing ball-carriers down after the first-down marker, even though initial contact was made before it.

He has not been a dominant force since he was drafted. Tackles are the silliest stat imaginable to show dominance, particularly for a 4-3 MLB.

By NFL standards, he's soft. He's way too easy to push around, and no matter what scheme we run he isn't worth a big payday. He's just a big name.

[CoachTsurfing]

why you ask.....................?????

cause this season is over!!! Over with a capital O.

with 3 stud QBs in draft horizon it is time to evaluate Clemens, by not playing

KC it is obvious to most that EM is not enamored with KC, cause it continues

to play a QB that cannot throw a frozen rope 5 yds. By not playing KC it tells me that KC maybe wasn't such a good choice and maybe trading him to a desperate team is the way to go. IF KC has the goods then EM is even dumber than Hermie. Hermie is dumb due to lack of a brain, EM is dumber

cause he has a brain and doesn't know how to use it

this season is a bad joke, we cannot even blame injuries

just

Poor QB play, a D not suited to the 3-4 and overall poor coaching, gameplans

and everything under the sun

This season is Kotiteesque without the funny quotes from Richie that

at least made me laugh once in a while

Mangini has been Kotitesian since Camera gate, the team has no clue since

then

Clear now skippy

I could not agree more with your post.

[angry jets fan]

Colt Brennan? What is Timmy Chang doing these days?

Vince Young>Woodson

Ryan...Eh.

Brohm...Eh.

Brennan...Good player..not going to have an arm left when he gets to the NFL throwing 75 passes a game at UH.

[afosomf]

Colt Brennan? What is Timmy Chang doing these days?

yanking his ..........

[K2C]

Colt Brennan? What is Timmy Chang doing these days?

Unless he is putting up Pro Bowl numbers in the NFL I'm not sure why your post is directed at me.

I said he is a good player..but won't have an arm to throw with when he gets to the next level.

[K2C]

Yeah, he was in on plenty of plays, & it seemed like almost every one of them was a first down for the offense. But he sure did a good job of (eventually) bringing ball-carriers down after the first-down marker, even though initial contact was made before it.

He has not been a dominant force since he was drafted. Tackles are the silliest stat imaginable to show dominance, particularly for a 4-3 MLB.

By NFL standards, he's soft. He's way too easy to push around, and no matter what scheme we run he isn't worth a big payday. He's just a big name.

It's easy to twist stats that aren't recorded to support your argument...isn't it?

Stats don't lie. Tell me when it was a LB's job to be behind the LOS on every play? Does he not follow the play that was called for him? If he is supposed to drop back in coverage...where would you like him to make the tackle? Your expectations are unreasonable.

Vilma was every bit of dominant as advertised...and then some. You don't draw praise and comparisons to Ray Lewis for not being a very productive LB.

I would build a defense around Jonathan Vilma anyday of the week.

[Sperm Edwards]

It's easy to twist stats that aren't recorded to support your argument...isn't it?

Stats don't lie. Tell me when it was a LB's job to be behind the LOS on every play? Does he not follow the play that was called for him? If he is supposed to drop back in coverage...where would you like him to make the tackle? Your expectations are unreasonable.

Vilma was every bit of dominant as advertised...and then some. You don't draw praise and comparisons to Ray Lewis for not being a very productive LB.

I would build a defense around Jonathan Vilma anyday of the week.

PRE-DRAFT praise.

Yeah, well Eli Manning drew comparisons to his brother.

Chad Pennington, even in the NFL, once drew comparisons to Joe Montana.

Comparison praise by a few doesn't remotely mean he's anywhere near the player he's being compared to.

He's an overrated featherweight of a LB. I'm not saying the guy's never made plays. If one's in on enough plays, even an awful LB worse than him will make some. But if you're contending that he doesn't get dragged around by even mid-sized (and lighter) RB's, you don't follow #51 around after the ball's snapped & are merely looking up old stats as to who got credit for the tackle. And he's not nearly as quick or quick off the ball as advertised. He has good closing speed, but he needs a lot of field to work with to demonstrate that speed to the naked eye.

Here's a test. The next upcoming game, when Cincy snaps the ball, keep looking at #51 the entire play; don't focus on Carson Palmer or even the ball-carrier. You will see Vilma getting owned play after play. He simply cannot shed a block, or can't shed one in under 5 seconds. Too often you'll see the play run right by him as he was pushed or swatted out of the way like a gnat. When he does make a play, it's almost ALWAYS after damage has been done.

He did have a nice hit on what's his name, was it Reggie Brown?

[K2C]

PRE-DRAFT praise.

Yeah, well Eli Manning drew comparisons to his brother.

Chad Pennington, even in the NFL, once drew comparisons to Joe Montana.

Comparison praise by a few doesn't remotely mean he's anywhere near the player he's being compared to.

He's an overrated featherweight of a LB. I'm not saying the guy's never made plays. If one's in on enough plays, even an awful LB worse than him will make some. But if you're contending that he doesn't get dragged around by even mid-sized (and lighter) RB's, you don't follow #51 around after the ball's snapped & are merely looking up old stats as to who got credit for the tackle. And he's not nearly as quick or quick off the ball as advertised. He has good closing speed, but he needs a lot of field to work with to demonstrate that speed to the naked eye.

Here's a test. The next upcoming game, when Cincy snaps the ball, keep looking at #51 the entire play; don't focus on Carson Palmer or even the ball-carrier. You will see Vilma getting owned play after play. He simply cannot shed a block, or can't shed one in under 5 seconds. Too often you'll see the play run right by him as he was pushed or swatted out of the way like a gnat. When he does make a play, it's almost ALWAYS after damage has been done.

He did have a nice hit on what's his name, was it Reggie Brown?

Jonathan Vilma is a playmaker...plain and simple.

He makes everyone around him a better player.

The reason he isn't shedding those blockers is because Mangini runs a 3-4...which doesn't utilize Vilma's skills properly.

By the way...I never heard those comparisons until he was in the NFL...and anyone that compared ELI to Peyton at any stage of their careers doesn't follow football or should be fired as a journalist.

[Sperm Edwards]

Jonathan Vilma is a playmaker...plain and simple.

He makes everyone around him a better player.

The reason he isn't shedding those blockers is because Mangini runs a 3-4...which doesn't utilize Vilma's skills properly.

By the way...I never heard those comparisons until he was in the NFL...and anyone that compared ELI to Peyton at any stage of their careers doesn't follow football or should be fired as a journalist.

It is not plain and simple. It is your personal opinion.

A playmaker doesn't blame a scheme or the talent around him for not making him elite.

He is not an elite NFL football player. Being voted in as an alternate to a single pro-bowl doesn't make him an elite playmaker in the mold of Ray Lewis.

[afosomf]

Jonathan Vilma is a playmaker...plain and simple.

He makes everyone around him a better player.

The reason he isn't shedding those blockers is because Mangini runs a 3-4...which doesn't utilize Vilma's skills properly.

By the way...I never heard those comparisons until he was in the NFL...and anyone that compared ELI to Peyton at any stage of their careers doesn't follow football or should be fired as a journalist.

Honestly Vilma has looked like Sh!t for most of the year

Coaching or Lack of has been god awful

The whole regime should be sent packing...

Let new regime evaluate #51.

[ECURB]

It is not plain and simple. It is your personal opinion.

The parallels between Vilma and Chad are scary... tons of heart... great work ethic... but lacking some physical aspects...

[K2C]

It is not plain and simple. It is your personal opinion.

As it is yours.