This upcoming offseason..

[JetFanatic]

What's up again guys??

I've been thinking a lot about this upcoming off-season and I'm both very excited and very nervous. I have a feeling that this off-season is gonna be like none other. I see major major moves being made to this franchise. I could see players like Robertson, Vilma, Hobson, Barton, Barrett, Dyson, Pennington, and possibly even Coles, getting either released or traded this upcoming off-season which will make our team look *completely* different on both the offense and defense side of the ball.

On the other hand though I hope and pray to see big time free agents coming in like hopefully a Terrell Suggs and/or an Alan Faneca or believe it or not an Asanti Samuel. I feel that with the cap room we have we *must* acquire at least one big name free agent.

What positions do you guys think we can fill in through Free Agency? I think LG is a position we absolutely must fill via Free Agency because if we can get an above average LG that will help add to Ferguson's game tremendously and we would see an immediate impact on the left side of our line.

I would also loooove to see T. Suggs in green and white. Come on management if the Ravens don't franchise him GET...IT...DONE! Getting Suggs will make our pass rushing defense so much better, how could it not.

With that lack of big NT that would fit our 3-4 scheme I also feel that we need to find our new NT in FA also. I'm not sure as to who will be out there that fits our scheme, but we *need* to find someone who is 330 pounds plus.

If Coles does in fact leave then WR suddenly becomes a position of need, but fortunately there will be available options in both the FA market and the draft. Aside from that it's very important that we have another strong draft b/c we're going to have a good amount of picks on way or another. Lets hope to find some more gems.

Thanks for letting me rant and any input would be greatly appreciated.

[Lil Bit Special]

The Jets arent going to go out and sign a big name free agent just because he's a big name. The Jets are going to continue to sign guys who are undervalued that they feel they can coach into greatness.

Other than the draft, I think the offseason is going to be a very frustrating one since many jets fans wont get the big names they are looking for.

Expect at least 9 more months of Mangini bashing.

[Irish Jet]

From watching the first half of this Rams Steelers game, anyone calling Alan faneca 'on the decine' needs to tune in and watch him absolutely dominate Adam Carriker. I've been very impressed with him so far, he is surrounded by very average O-lineman too.

[RSJ]

The Jets arent going to go out and sign a big name free agent just because he's a big name. The Jets are going to continue to sign guys who are undervalued that they feel they can coach into greatness.

Other than the draft, I think the offseason is going to be a very frustrating one since many jets fans wont get the big names they are looking for.

Expect at least 9 more months of Mangini bashing.

Exactly!! Some fans forget so quickly how signing or trading for and overpaying for guys like Aarron Beasley, Sam Garnes, Sam Cowart, Chester McGlocton, Justin McCarriens or Doug Jolley can hurt your team more than help it. We are better off building through the draft and signing undervalued free agents. This will build a solid core and allow us to later go out and sign anyone we want in order to get us over the top. This is the way you win in the NFL.

[RSJ]

From watching the first half of this Rams Steelers game, anyone calling Alan faneca 'on the decine' needs to tune in and watch him absolutely dominate Adam Carriker. I've been very impressed with him so far, he is surrounded by very average O-lineman too.

Because dominating a rookie in the second half of his first NFL season has me ready to trow a 20 million dollar bonus at a 30 year old guard.

[JetCane]

The Jets arent going to go out and sign a big name free agent just because he's a big name. The Jets are going to continue to sign guys who are undervalued that they feel they can coach into greatness.

Other than the draft, I think the offseason is going to be a very frustrating one since many jets fans wont get the big names they are looking for.

Expect at least 9 more months of Mangini bashing.

How have they done with the bolded part so far?

Discuss

[RSJ]

How have they done with the bolded part so far?

Discuss

Not very good. But the thing is Cane, they didn't overpay anyone causing us cap havoc when this team gets close in a year or two. If they had signed 3 or 4 high priced guys they would have had old overpaid guys and be up against the cap when ready to get a guys or two to put them over the top. Too much risk and not enough reward.

[afosomf]

they are going to get no one and like it

'Niedermeyer"

[RSJ]

they are going to get no one and like it

'Niedermeyer"

Assmop, you are like that wild drunk guy at a party that yells the loudest - but everyone ignores.

[JetCane]

Not very good. But the thing is Cane, they didn't overpay anyone causing us cap havoc when this team gets close in a year or two. If they had signed 3 or 4 high priced guys they would have had old overpaid guys and be up against the cap when ready to get a guys or two to put them over the top. Too much risk and not enough reward.

So they arent overpaying undervalued players and we are supposed to be excited about this?

The talent they have brought in so far hasnt reflected well on their eye for FA talent and/or their ability to coach them up in their system. Are we supposed to believe that suddenly the FAs they bring in will be good, when the ones they have brought in so far have been mediocre?

[RSJ]

So they arent overpaying undervalued players and we are supposed to be excited about this?

The talent they have brought in so far hasnt reflected well on their eye for FA talent and/or their ability to coach them up in their system. Are we supposed to believe that suddenly the FAs they bring in will be good, when the ones they have brought in so far have been mediocre?

I think they are willing to overpay the right guys - but realizing that the Jets needed so much help and there were so many issues they just didn't want to do it in year one or two. Let me ask you this. Who did you want them to get in either of the last two free agent classes?

[CoachTsurfing]

The Jets arent going to go out and sign a big name free agent just because he's a big name. The Jets are going to continue to sign guys who are undervalued that they feel they can coach into greatness.

Other than the draft, I think the offseason is going to be a very frustrating one since many jets fans wont get the big names they are looking for.

Expect at least 9 more months of Mangini bashing.

Agreed, Mangina will continue to try and fit square pegs into round holes.

[RSJ]

Agreed, Mangina will continue to try and fit square pegs into round holes.

I would love to see you guys if Belicheck took us over in 2000 and went 5-11. You would all be ready to run him out of town.

[pjam76]

The problem is if KC winds up not being very good, and they continue along the 2 players per year mentality, they'll never be any good.

Say what you want, but if they do little in free agency or trades this season and wind up with only 2 good starters but not great ones, are they really improving? And the reality is if KC isn't very good next year, this regime either will be out the door or you're talking about another 2-4 year rebuilding plan and hope the next drafted QB becomes the future QB.

As far as bringing in scrubs, how can you say they did a good job at replacing Kendall? THe guy is an avg OL and they took 10 steps back at that position. They DL sucked last year and it sucked again this year with the scrubs they brought in. They traded for TJ who has done nothing. Talk about a team who has no clue how to evaluate free agent talent. At this point they only look cheap, not good at evaluating veterans.

[JetCane]

I think they are willing to overpay the right guys - but realizing that the Jets needed so much help and there were so many issues they just didn't want to do it in year one or two. Let me ask you this. Who did you want them to get in either of the last two free agent classes?

I cant even begin to think of names. I was really busy today and am wiped out. i am going to be signing off after this post until tmw a.m., which I was planning on telling you before you asked me this question.

My answer about their track record is two parts- the finding of talent, and coaching them up. As I posted in another thread yesterday (it could have been one of my few posts on tgg if it wasnt here), I dont usually second guess who a CS brings in thru the draft or as a FA. I accept that they brought in someone they wanted and will coach up. I give the benefit of the doubt on their choice of player, and wait to see the results.

If the player doesnt succeed, that is usually due to the FO guessing wrong on the player, or not doing a good job plugging them into their scheme/system. So, even if they get a name we all recognize this year, we still have to wait to see how they do on the field next year in this system with this CS.

I'll check for your reply tmw.

G'nite

[RSJ]

I cant even begin to think of names. I was really busy today and am wiped out. i am going to be signing off after this post until tmw a.m., which I was planning on telling you before you asked me this question.

My answer about their track record is two parts- the finding of talent, and coaching them up. As I posted in another thread yesterday (it could have been one of my few posts on tgg if it wasnt here), I dont usually second guess who a CS brings in thru the draft or as a FA. I accept that they brought in someone they wanted and will coach up. I give the benefit of the doubt on their choice of player, and wait to see the results.

If the player doesnt succeed, that is usually due to the FO guessing wrong on the player, or not doing a good job plugging them into their scheme/system. So, even if they get a name we all recognize this year, we still have to wait to see how they do on the field next year in this system with this CS.

I'll check for your reply tmw.

G'nite

Yeah, I'm about to go to bed too. I guess if there is no talent to be had you are better off filling your holes with Jags, than overpaying for a guy who is a band aid type. History shows us that very few highly paid free agents make a GREAT impact on a team anyway. And that's largely because if they were that good the home team would have locked them up already or thrown the franchise tag on him. Free agency is not the answer everyone makes it out to be. The Steelers for example have the same money we have to spend. And have shown they will spend it - if it is on the right guy. Again I haven't looked at the free agents from the last two years either so let's continue this tomorrow. It should be interesting.

[CoachTsurfing]

I would love to see you guys if Belicheck took us over in 2000 and went 5-11. You would all be ready to run him out of town.

It depends. I think if the team looked good in games that they lost then fans would be o.k. with it. But come on, the o line has looked horrible. The d line gets little to no pressure. I am so sick of people defending Mangina. He and the f.o. have done nothing to help this team succeed. You can't play his scheme unless you have the right players and he didn't go out and get them. That is why I am ready to run him out of town.

[RSJ]

The problem is if KC winds up not being very good, and they continue along the 2 players per year mentality, they'll never be any good.

Say what you want, but if they do little in free agency or trades this season and wind up with only 2 good starters but not great ones, are they really improving? And the reality is if KC isn't very good next year, this regime either will be out the door or you're talking about another 2-4 year rebuilding plan and hope the next drafted QB becomes the future QB.

As far as bringing in scrubs, how can you say they did a good job at replacing Kendall? THe guy is an avg OL and they took 10 steps back at that position. They DL sucked last year and it sucked again this year with the scrubs they brought in. They traded for TJ who has done nothing. Talk about a team who has no clue how to evaluate free agent talent. At this point they only look cheap, not good at evaluating veterans.

Tj has played poorly for a number of reasons. There is nothing wrong with him however. Think a year or two from now when Kendall is a 35 or 36 year old JAG and you are competing for a championship, then what? Then you sit him for a rookie just so he can become a team sideshow again? All while he is making starting guard money? No thanks.

[RSJ]

It depends. I think if the team looked good in games that they lost then fans would be o.k. with it. But come on, the o line has looked horrible. The d line gets little to no pressure. I am so sick of people defending Mangina. He and the f.o. have done nothing to help this team succeed. You can't play his scheme unless you have the right players and he didn't go out and get them. That is why I am ready to run him out of town.

First off the team has played every game close, and well I think.

Second of all, if the square peg is better than any of the round pegs available or if you can't get out of the square pegs contract, then you have no choice but to use the square peg.

[Irish Jet]

Because dominating a rookie in the second half of his first NFL season has me ready to trow a 20 million dollar bonus at a 30 year old guard.

Yeah, cause that's the first time I've ever seen Faneca play.

My point is, he's still an elite guard.He's not on the decine like people think. 30 is nothing for a guard in this league, nothing.

[#27TheDominator]

Agreed, Mangina will continue to try and fit square pegs into round holes.

What square pegs has Mangini gotten? The "square pegs" were all here already. DRob, Vilma. It's not like they went out and got guys that didn't fit the system. Sure Kimo and Schlegel sucked, but they were proper 3-4 types. Everybody else, K Coleman, Revis, Harris, have what they are trying to do.

Tj has played poorly for a number of reasons. There is nothing wrong with him however. Think a year or two from now when Kendall is a 35 or 36 year old JAG and you are competing for a championship, then what? Then you sit him for a rookie just so he can become a team sideshow again? All while he is making starting guard money? No thanks.

Kendall? If you meant Kendall, all they had to do was pay him an extra million. Not redo his contract, new signing bonus, etc. If he declined so much he wouldn't cost any more to cut and if we had a rookie that showed promise it would be better to work him into a rotation before we dumped a guy outright with nothing but **** behind him.

If you meant Faneca, I might agree with you. Unlike this guy...

Yeah, cause that's the first time I've ever seen Faneca play.

My point is, he's still an elite guard.He's not on the decine like people think. 30 is nothing for a guard in this league, nothing.

Elite? Eh. He's old and he's not that big and he's looking at a huge payday. I'm willing to bet there are better options. The only reason I would go for Faneca is that he is a sure thing. I just don't think he's a sure thing to be "elite" but he won't suck to much. IMO, he'd be good between DBrick and Mangold, but I doubt the running game would see any big surge because of his addition.

[CoachTsurfing]

His defensive schemes do not match up with the players we have or have gotten. Whether that be with the current players we have or ones we have gotten in f.a. It's like getting the best Kenyan marathoner and making him run the 100 meters against Michael Johnson.

[Sperm Edwards]

His defensive schemes do not match up with the players we have or have gotten. Whether that be with the current players we have or ones we have gotten in f.a. It's like getting the best Kenyan marathoner and making him run the 100 meters against Michael Johnson.

Or it would be like taking a great 200 & 400 meter runner like Michael Johnson & making him run the 100 meters.

[afosomf]

Assmop, you are like that wild drunk guy at a party that yells the loudest - but everyone ignores.

Ummmm that is what the ignore feature is for ..... francis:sheepf:

[#27TheDominator]

His defensive schemes do not match up with the players we have or have gotten. Whether that be with the current players we have or ones we have gotten in f.a. It's like getting the best Kenyan marathoner and making him run the 100 meters against Michael Johnson.

Or it would be like taking a great 200 & 400 meter runner like Michael Johnson & making him run the 100 meters.

I repeat, which players have we gotten in FA that don't fit the system? I don't equate the guys we have gotten in FA with having the best Kenyan marathon runners run 100 yard dash. The defensive guys were 3-4 guys, just not very good. Name one player on defense they brought in that is not suited to they scheme. The "square pegs" (Vilma/DRob) were all here before.

The offensive guys? I don't see any that don't fit a "system" but they certainly aren't very good. I'm not sure what the system is going to be on offense. It's tough to tell what they are aiming to do because of the limitations at QB (chicken arm/new) and O-line (sucky)

[4HCrew]

The jets free agent signings have been mediocre at best....a ton of band aids minus Thomas Jones who most of you hate even though the O Line gives him nothing to work with. Then again Woody is cheap as hell so who knows what they are working with

[Sperm Edwards]

I repeat, which players have we gotten in FA that don't fit the system? I don't equate the guys we have gotten in FA with having the best Kenyan marathon runners run 100 yard dash. The defensive guys were 3-4 guys, just not very good. Name one player on defense they brought in that is not suited to they scheme. The "square pegs" (Vilma/DRob) were all here before.

The offensive guys? I don't see any that don't fit a "system" but they certainly aren't very good. I'm not sure what the system is going to be on offense. It's tough to tell what they are aiming to do because of the limitations at QB (chicken arm/new) and O-line (sucky)

Don't get snippy with me, bitch. I was only pointing out Michael Johnson's event wasn't the 100m.

[Lil Bit Special]

So they arent overpaying undervalued players and we are supposed to be excited about this?

The talent they have brought in so far hasnt reflected well on their eye for FA talent and/or their ability to coach them up in their system. Are we supposed to believe that suddenly the FAs they bring in will be good, when the ones they have brought in so far have been mediocre?

I agree. But I just dont see them changing their "philosophy" this offseason. If Mangini thinks his job is on the line, he might go and try to sign the big name. If Woody gives him the impression that he is secure, he will continue down this road of mediocre players who they hope can turn it around.

[#27TheDominator]

Don't get snippy with me, bitch. I was only pointing out Michael Johnson's event wasn't the 100m.

You liked the gold shoes?

I agree. But I just dont see them changing their "philosophy" this offseason. If Mangini thinks his job is on the line, he might go and try to sign the big name. If Woody gives him the impression that he is secure, he will continue down this road of mediocre players who they hope can turn it around.

I don't think he can possibly feel that secure. I won't go crazy if they don't sign a ton of big names, but they'd better at least bring a few in and they'd better sign somebody of consequence.

[DonCorleone]

Not very good. But the thing is Cane, they didn't overpay anyone causing us cap havoc when this team gets close in a year or two. If they had signed 3 or 4 high priced guys they would have had old overpaid guys and be up against the cap when ready to get a guys or two to put them over the top. Too much risk and not enough reward.

So far I have to disagree with you. They signed nobodies and are reaping dead fruits. I am not saying that we needed to go an a spending spree, but adequate would do. As far as risk/reward we risked little and received 0 in return. Mangini was unable to get anything out of our free agent signigs and I am not sure what his goal was when he signed them. If it isn't that he is a bad coach, then he absolutely stinks at evaluating talent. Why would any realistic Jet fan have any hopes that he will have a complete turn around when he negleted to address the major most basic needs of any football team? I am completely down on this management team and I can honestly say that it isn't simply because of our horrendous record, it is mostly because of how they have handled certain issues and personnel decisions.

Thanks.

[Green DNA]

So they arent overpaying undervalued players and we are supposed to be excited about this?

The talent they have brought in so far hasnt reflected well on their eye for FA talent and/or their ability to coach them up in their system. Are we supposed to believe that suddenly the FAs they bring in will be good, when the ones they have brought in so far have been mediocre?

Do you have a problem with Chatham and Kassell?

[#27TheDominator]

So far I have to disagree with you. They signed nobodies and are reaping dead fruits. I am not saying that we needed to go an a spending spree, but adequate would do. As far as risk/reward we risked little and received 0 in return. Mangini was unable to get anything out of our free agent signigs and I am not sure what his goal was when he signed them. If it isn't that he is a bad coach, then he absolutely stinks at evaluating talent. Why would any realistic Jet fan have any hopes that he will have a complete turn around when he negleted to address the major most basic needs of any football team? I am completely down on this management team and I can honestly say that it isn't simply because of our horrendous record, it is mostly because of how they have handled certain issues and personnel decisions.

Thanks.

Understandable viewpoint. The hope comes from the fact that they appear to be trying to get as far under the cap as possible so that they are able to spend as much as they want when somebody they love becomes available. The "Woody is cheap camp" sees this as being simply cheap. I felt that way myself after the Kendall deal, but at least they prepaid many players to clear cap room for '08. I don't think this will necessarily mean an immediate spending spree, but there is hope. They seem to be pretty good at the draft and targeting the players they like. Harris and Revis give me some hope. I wouldn't be surprised if there are guys they like and will spend on (maybe Assante Samuel) while others we might love (Faneca?) are ignored.

[DonCorleone]

Understandable viewpoint. The hope comes from the fact that they appear to be trying to get as far under the cap as possible so that they are able to spend as much as they want when somebody they love becomes available. The "Woody is cheap camp" sees this as being simply cheap. I felt that way myself after the Kendall deal, but at least they prepaid many players to clear cap room for '08. I don't think this will necessarily mean an immediate spending spree, but there is hope. They seem to be pretty good at the draft and targeting the players they like. Harris and Revis give me some hope. I wouldn't be surprised if there are guys they like and will spend on (maybe Assante Samuel) while others we might love (Faneca?) are ignored.

I have to agree that the draft has given us some of our best players so far. Off topic, what worries me is how some good football people have bolted since Woody took over. BP left (no surprise there since he has screwed more than one football team) but BB and then Groh after only one year. Then the bitterness that some hold against the Jets organization.... Could it be that they know something about our ownership that we don't? Certainly, I could be fishing here...But it does leave me to wonder why....

[#27TheDominator]

I have to agree that the draft has given us some of our best players so far. Off topic, what worries me is how some good football people have bolted since Woody took over. BP left (no surprise there since he has screwed more than one football team) but BB and then Groh after only one year. Then the bitterness that some hold against the Jets organization.... Could it be that they know something about our ownership that we don't? Certainly, I could be fishing here...But it does leave me to wonder why....

I don't see it that way at all. Parcells did not hand over to BB, but was staying on. I can fully understand why that little bastard wouldn't want to stay on with that big bastard handing over his head. He apparently already had a good relationship with ownership in NE and probably owed them one after what they pulled leaving. Groh was in an unstable situation with tubby leaving and he wasn't about to get total control. He got what was apparently his dream job. It didn't seem like anybody from the Herm era was in such a rush to leave. One trait of the "Parcells tree" is running like a bitch whenever you feel like it.

[JetCane]

Do you have a problem with Chatham and Kassell?

Clearly, they are no boar hunters.