This upcoming offseason..

[CoachTsurfing]

Don't get snippy with me, bitch. I was only pointing out Michael Johnson's event wasn't the 100m.

lol, either way Michael would smoke any Kenyan marathoner in the 100. Maybe we can get him to play te or wr. the point is mangini is playing schemes that don't support our players attributes. Whether they were here before he came or brought in. Coming in he knew what type of players we had and for him to try and push a scheme that doesn't fit is crazy.

[SoFlaJets]

I'm taking my time with this thread-right off I am now of the belief that it doesn't matter WHO is the GM or HC it's all about Woody Johnson-HE'S the one who has to say yea or nay and history shows us that he never brings in any guys that will make any significant impact-exception to the rule was Ty Law a couple of years ago-that was the one time and he picked off 10 passes (I know, I know about the penalties)

[SoFlaJets]

another problem I see is Mangini seems to be falling into the Herman Edwards syndrome of never playing new guys over the entrenched ones-two examples that burn my ass this year are the David Bowens and darian Barnes cases-

David Bowens when he has been in there has shown himself to be an impact player. You see him jumping over guys and showing good speed to the ball while a guy like Bryan Thomas (square peg-round hole) looks lost out there-especially on pass coverage. WHY hasn't Bowens replaced Thomas?

Darian Barnes; when he was signed I read a blurb about how much better Miami's RB's YPC average was. Somehow he got himself in Mangini's doghouse and never got out when he CLEARLY would have helped as a run blocker. Wonder why we can't pick up a 1st down or score at the GL? Look no further than this.

[JetCane]

another problem I see is Mangini seems to be falling into the Herman Edwards syndrome of never playing new guys over the entrenched ones-two examples that burn my ass this year are the David Bowens and darian Barnes cases-

David Bowens when he has been in there has shown himself to be an impact player. You see him jumping over guys and showing good speed to the ball while a guy like Bryan Thomas (square peg-round hole) looks lost out there-especially on pass coverage. WHY hasn't Bowens replaced Thomas?

Darian Barnes; when he was signed I read a blurb about how much better Miami's RB's YPC average was. Somehow he got himself in Mangini's doghouse and never got out when he CLEARLY would have helped as a run blocker. Wonder why we can't pick up a 1st down or score at the GL? Look no further than this.

Another problem with him is sticking guys in the doghouse as a knee jerk reaction to them making a mistake. Bowens missed a tackle in the first game on the KO return that went for 108 yards and went into the doghouse for a long period of time. Eric Smith missed the tackle on first eagles drive that went for a TD and didnt see the field again fior three weeks. Dyson failed to tackle Plax in the Gnats game and went to the bench. There were reports early on about players being afraid to make mistakes, and this is why, imo.

[will]

Another problem with him is sticking guys in the doghouse as a knee jerk reaction to them making a mistake. Bowens missed a tackle in the first game on the KO return that went for 108 yards and went into the doghouse for a long period of time. Eric Smith missed the tackle on first eagles drive that went for a TD and didnt see the field again fior three weeks. Dyson failed to tackle Plax in the Gnats game and went to the bench. There were reports early on about players being afraid to make mistakes, and this is why, imo.

You had me until you mentioned the Dyson play. If ever a single play should cause a player to be benched that was the one.

[JetCane]

You had me until you mentioned the Dyson play. If ever a single play should cause a player to be benched that was the one.

The Dyson play was terrible- I was there, sitting with Cant hackett, and it blew chunks.

But the main point is that he has done this with multiple players, not just one isolated incident.

[Irish Jet]

You had me until you mentioned the Dyson play. If ever a single play should cause a player to be benched that was the one.

There was also tough competition from that missed tackle on Kevin Curtis by Eric Smith and of course Dyson again.

[JetCane]

When it's a repeated thing, like Mcdroppins trying to not be a WR, or Dyson not wrapping up, something has to be done.

otoh, we've seen their pet, Elam, smash into Revis on a potential Int that went for a TD the other way, and screwing up his blocking assignment on the punt that was blocked by NE (and there's been surprisingly little discussion here about Elam's failure to kick it out of the EZ rather than pick it up and get tackled inside the 5).

But hey, mussilini made the trains run on time, right?

[Irish Jet]

otoh, we've seen their pet, Elam, smash into Revis on a potential Int that went for a TD the other way, and screwing up his blocking assignment on the punt that was blocked by NE (and there's been surprisingly little discussion here about Elam's failure to kick it out of the EZ rather than pick it up and get tackled inside the 5).

Elam comes accross as a total idiot from his play on the football field. Every week their seems to be a bonehead, stupid mistake.

[JetFanatic]

Basically what I want to see us accomplish in the off-season is something along the lines of ....

1. Signing a LG (Faneca) who will vastly improve the offensive line and create holes for Jones and Washington to run through.

2. Sign or draft a pass rusher at ROLB (yes that means bye bye to Victor "they don't say my name once in a game ever" Hobson) such as Suggs maybe if he doesn't get franchised which he mostly likely will.

3. Getting an actual NT that fits the 3-4 scheme which will make Harris even better than he is right now.

4. Draft a RT to replace the ever-so-bad Anthony Clement.

5. Possibly get Clemens a weapon. A reliable pass catching WR or TE who could actually play a whole season. I'm not bashing Coles, but the fact that he plays his heart out every play gets him hurt more than I'd like. If Coles is gone then I want someone like a Chad Johnson or a Roy Williams who if available I feel we have to go after.

6. Draft some LB's for depth purposes or maybe even draft a replacement for Hobson.

7. Get some depth on the Defensive line.

If we can accomplish these I think we'll be in very good shape for the 08 season. Spend some money on FAs this off-season, bring in some guys who can play, have another solid draft and we are on our way folks.

[Green DNA]

5. Possibly get Clemens a weapon. A reliable pass catching WR or TE who could actually play a whole season. I'm not bashing Coles, but the fact that he plays his heart out every play gets him hurt more than I'd like. If Coles is gone then I want someone like a Chad Johnson or a Roy Williams who if available I feel we have to go after.

You mean the Roy Williams who is on Injured Reserve?

[SoFlaJets]

Another problem with him is sticking guys in the doghouse as a knee jerk reaction to them making a mistake. Bowens missed a tackle in the first game on the KO return that went for 108 yards and went into the doghouse for a long period of time. Eric Smith missed the tackle on first eagles drive that went for a TD and didnt see the field again fior three weeks. Dyson failed to tackle Plax in the Gnats game and went to the bench. There were reports early on about players being afraid to make mistakes, and this is why, imo.

I didn't remember Bowens missing a tackle there. As per Eric Smith-he has been playing really good-he is a sure tackler and if he was doghoused then it was like biting off your nose to spite your face. Eric Coleman had lost it

[JetCane]

I didn't remember Bowens missing a tackle there. As per Eric Smith-he has been playing really good-he is a sure tackler and if he was doghoused then it was like biting off your nose to spite your face. Eric Coleman had lost it

Bowens did miss the tackle vs ne on that ko return at about the 20-25 yd line. he admitted to it in the papers. and i think it severely hampered him getting more pt earlier in the season.

[4HCrew]

I think there is something being mentioned here but overlooked....there have been several rumors how Woody handcuffs the staff when it comes to spending money

[SoFlaJets]

I think there is something being mentioned here but overlooked....there have been several rumors how Woody handcuffs the staff when it comes to spending money

that's the conclusion that a lot of us around here are starting to come to grips with 4H-that it isn't Mangini/Mike T, it wasn't Herm/Bradway, it wasn't Al Groh or Parcells-the reason for the lack of FA's brought in AND SIGNED over the years that could have and WOULD help us is the fault of Woody Johnson-he's the one variable that hasn't changed through the different regimes

[#27TheDominator]

that's the conclusion that a lot of us around here are starting to come to grips with 4H-that it isn't Mangini/Mike T, it wasn't Herm/Bradway, it wasn't Al Groh or Parcells-the reason for the lack of FA's brought in AND SIGNED over the years that could have and WOULD help us is the fault of Woody Johnson-he's the one variable that hasn't changed through the different regimes

I find these rumors pretty questionable at this point. They were in cap hell until this year. They gave DRob, Pennington and Martin those huge deals. They gave a fairly big deal to Ty Law. They have used up all cap space for '07 AFAIK. The fact is, the team can only spend a certain amount per year, if they do that it they didn't save any money and it seems they did that in '07. Tannenbaum seems to be very fired up over each nickel and dime, but they haven't been completely stingy. There are plenty of guys they overpaid-McCareins, Kimo, K Coleman, even Thomas Jones. IMO, if they **** the bed this offseason they will be gone and we'll see the next regime with a different attitude.

As for the doghouse, I don't doubt that it exists, but I question if it's a personal vendetta as 'cane suggests. McCareins and Dyson's play has certainly warranted it. Smith was hurt early. Bowens didn't just miss a tackle on a ST play. He was stuggling at LB and didn't look so good standing up. He looks more comfortable to me now. Barnes was a guy we all hoped would fit in, but he didn't. Was it a personal thing or did the guy just suck? I don't remember him adding any great contribution when he was active.

[JetCane]

As for the doghouse, I don't doubt that it exists, but I question if it's a personal vendetta as 'cane suggests. McCareins and Dyson's play has certainly warranted it. Smith was hurt early. Bowens didn't just miss a tackle on a ST play. He was stuggling at LB and didn't look so good standing up. He looks more comfortable to me now. Barnes was a guy we all hoped would fit in, but he didn't. Was it a personal thing or did the guy just suck? I don't remember him adding any great contribution when he was active.

It's no vendetta- it's an extension of penalizing players who make mistakesin practice:

Make a mistake in TC: take a lap.

Make a mistake in a game: take a seat.

It's a strategy that some may find questionable if overused.

As for barnes, I watched him in games he played, and there instances where Jones ran better with Barnes throwing a block. i think he shiould have been used more in the gameplan, as the blocking by the OL has been, ahhhh, not so good this season.

As for Bowens, everyone was struggling at LB this year except for harris. No other LBs have played well this season, and that is a huge part of why the D has been a disaster. it's also an indictment of Sutton, who was a LB coach.

I would have liked to have seen him in the roation a lot more often.

As for dyson, as i have said before, he is a total enigma to me this year.

And btw I though Barrett played ok vs NE, but he isnt popular on the board, so he didnt get much props here.

[The Big Green Douche]

Bowens did miss the tackle vs ne on that ko return at about the 20-25 yd line. he admitted to it in the papers. and i think it severely hampered him getting more pt earlier in the season.

It was Bowens that missed the tackle, JC right on the money

[Bugg]

Yeah, cause that's the first time I've ever seen Faneca play.

My point is, he's still an elite guard.He's not on the decine like people think. 30 is nothing for a guard in this league, nothing.

Kendall and many others are starting at guard at 36. Signing a guy who figures to help anchor your OL for 5 or 6 solid year rather than watching the Clarke/Jones/Cvaka conga line of crap piss the bed on a weekly basis is still a good bet. T\In the time I've been a Jets fan, when ever we had a decent OL, good things happen, period. Not great things necessarily, but it's a requirment to compete for a playoff spot. Unless QBs getting shoulder operations and cracking ribs and nonexistent running games tickle your fancy.

Simply, I vote "Yes" on Prop Faneca, and so should you.

[#27TheDominator]

It's no vendetta- it's an extension of penalizing players who make mistakesin practice:

Make a mistake in TC: take a lap.

Make a mistake in a game: take a seat.

It's a strategy that some may find questionable if overused.

As for barnes, I watched him in games he played, and there instances where Jones ran better with Barnes throwing a block. i think he shiould have been used more in the gameplan, as the blocking by the OL has been, ahhhh, not so good this season.

As for Bowens, everyone was struggling at LB this year except for harris. No other LBs have played well this season, and that is a huge part of why the D has been a disaster. it's also an indictment of Sutton, who was a LB coach.

I would have liked to have seen him in the roation a lot more often.

As for dyson, as i have said before, he is a total enigma to me this year.

And btw I though Barrett played ok vs NE, but he isnt popular on the board, so he didnt get much props here.

I'm sure it is overused. I actually lean more towards your hatred of it than the other way. Thing is that the board was ranting about "accountability" and "anti-Herm" and this is part of that. I find it a little confusing that people praising that last year could complain about it now. That's not a dig at 'cane who complained about it from the start.

When I say Bowens looked lost, I mean he looked like he didn't know how to stand up and back pedal. I don't mean he picked the wrong hole or was a little slow in coverage. SFJ likes the guy because he saw him leap somebody, but he was a good pass rush DE and that's to be expected. He had to learn to play LB instead of DE. I think he's been coming along and we will see more of him. They may be counting on him to take over for Hobson next year. His pass ruch ability is the only reason I can see for flip flopping Thomas.

Agree about Barrett. He's not popular in my house, but he played a nice game.

Barnes looked like he could hit, but I just didn't see him adding much. Ryan and Kowalewski seem to block too. None of them are really helping Jones. Anybody that watched the Rams Steelers had to notice that Stephen Jackson is getting Jets level O line play and he can still run. Maybe good backs are getting underrated.

[Irish Jet]

Barrett didn't play too badly vs New England but he should never ever have been matched up with Randy Moss whether there is safety help or not. That mistake was on the coaching staff, Revis owned Moss when on him.

[pjam76]

The problem with drafting 2 more OL this season is that this is the NFL in 2007, not 1987.

How many starting OL on the Colts this season were starting in 2005? How many on the Pats were starting just 2 seasons ago? Heck how many of the same players from 2005 are still on those teams 2 years later?

There is no such thing as depending on the same 5 OL for 5-10 years anymore. If that's how the Jets are building a team, they'll probably never win. Look at the Colts this season. They had 4 OL injured or retired. Yet they still could finish 13-3 or better. It's not about drafting 5 OL and hoping they play for the next 10 years. It's about drafting good players and finding other players who can replace them.

Glenn retires, they bring in a rookie. THe rookie gets injured, they bring in a practice squad player. No the OL isn't as good as it once was, but they still win after replacing an all pro OL. And then we look at the Jets.. They dump Kendall and can't even replace him. He's an avg at best OL.

Talk about teams who have a clue and those that don't. One team finds a way to replace an ALL PRo OL in training camp while the Jets look dumbfounded after they know they were going to trade Kendall since March.

Good teams know how to replace players, not hope the same 22 players start for 10 years.

[Irish Jet]

The problem with drafting 2 more OL this season is that this is the NFL in 2007, not 1987.

How many starting OL on the Colts this season were starting in 2005? How many on the Pats were starting just 2 seasons ago? Heck how many of the same players from 2005 are still on those teams 2 years later?

There is no such thing as depending on the same 5 OL for 5-10 years anymore. If that's how the Jets are building a team, they'll probably never win. Look at the Colts this season. They had 4 OL injured or retired. Yet they still could finish 13-3 or better. It's not about drafting 5 OL and hoping they play for the next 10 years. It's about drafting good players and finding other players who can replace them.

Glenn retires, they bring in a rookie. THe rookie gets injured, they bring in a practice squad player. No the OL isn't as good as it once was, but they still win after replacing an all pro OL. And then we look at the Jets.. They dump Kendall and can't even replace him. He's an avg at best OL.

Talk about teams who have a clue and those that don't. One team finds a way to replace an ALL PRo OL in training camp while the Jets look dumbfounded after they know they were going to trade Kendall since March.

Good teams know how to replace players, not hope the same 22 players start for 10 years.

The Colts and the Pats vey rarely draft O-lineman incredibly high, they look for players who will fit their system anddo a great job in evaluating what's available. They also have great coaching in that area.

[#27TheDominator]

The problem with drafting 2 more OL this season is that this is the NFL in 2007, not 1987.

How many starting OL on the Colts this season were starting in 2005? How many on the Pats were starting just 2 seasons ago? Heck how many of the same players from 2005 are still on those teams 2 years later?

There is no such thing as depending on the same 5 OL for 5-10 years anymore. If that's how the Jets are building a team, they'll probably never win. Look at the Colts this season. They had 4 OL injured or retired. Yet they still could finish 13-3 or better. It's not about drafting 5 OL and hoping they play for the next 10 years. It's about drafting good players and finding other players who can replace them.

Glenn retires, they bring in a rookie. THe rookie gets injured, they bring in a practice squad player. No the OL isn't as good as it once was, but they still win after replacing an all pro OL. And then we look at the Jets.. They dump Kendall and can't even replace him. He's an avg at best OL.

Talk about teams who have a clue and those that don't. One team finds a way to replace an ALL PRo OL in training camp while the Jets look dumbfounded after they know they were going to trade Kendall since March.

Good teams know how to replace players, not hope the same 22 players start for 10 years.

The problem with your little theory is that the Colts and Pats have had their entire starting lines together for years. There is only one guy starting for either team that hasn't been there for at least three years and that's Ugoh. Ugoh was a 2nd round pick, but they traded a fourth and their first in '08 for him. The Colts traded up because they were worried about Tarik Glenn retiring. It's also unfair to compare the lines of teams with franchise qbs. Those are two HOF qbs that make any crappy line look better.

Building a good line may take years. They need to gel and play together. It's much easier to replace one guy on a good line than to replace one on a bad line. The Jets had a good start making the line a priority with DBrick and Mangold. It's troubling taking a step back this year, but there are other areas that had to be addressed.