gang_green03 Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Hypothetical Question. Assume we have between the 3rd and 5th pick in the draft. Also assume that Terrell Suggs is franchised. Would you trade that pick for him straight up? Do you think that's too much/too little? I think I'd trade that pick for him. Why not use the pick on a proven elite 3-4 rusher instead of an unknown prospect? I can't really find any downside to getting him. The usual negatives about getting FA's don't apply to him, IMO. Age isn't a factor since he doesn't turn 26 till October. Production isn't a question cause he's proven to be a top 3 pass rusher in the league and he's done it in the 3-4. Skill and durability arent' huge factors either because he's shown plenty of both. Its possible that you could call him a system guy but that system is ours as well so, again, its not a problem. Also, he plays with much talent around him but I believe most will agree that he's more of a driver of that defense, rather than someone who's created by the players around him. The only potential issue is money, but I don't have a problem with giving big money to a FA if that's the only downside. There's no player in the draft that would have the immediate impact he would. McFadden is the best player in the draft but we don't need a RB that badly right now and he's still unproven no matter how talented. Plus, we'd need to give him a line to run behind for him to be as good as everyone thinks he will be, but if we gave Jones and Washington a line we'd have a very effective running game even without McFadden. Jake Long is the highest rated lineman, but I think we could get someone who's, at worst, close to his level as a run blocker and pretty much equal in pass protection, in the 2nd round. In terms of a pass rusher, there's minimal chance that any hybrid we could draft would reach the level Suggs is at now. You could say that drafting a pass rusher would give us the production we need for cheaper but while someone like Groves or Gholston would come at a cheaper cost than Suggs, he would also come with much less production. Also, whats the point of having room under the cap if its never used. Granted, he's having a down year but its hard to complain about 4 elite years out of 5 and the year he's having now is still above average at worst. Plus, that whole team is having a down year. And to those who would say that he wouldn't have the d-line talent in front of him that he has in Baltimore, we'd need a good d-line for any pass rusher to flourish, regardless of whether its a rookie or FA. Its not like he'd only have 1 or 2 great years left in him. Curious about peoples thoughts on this highly unlikely, but somewhat possible, scenario... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecurb2369 sells used cars Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4HCrew Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 going to want big money..not sure if at this point with the jets he is worth giving it to. They are not one player away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gang_green03 Posted December 27, 2007 Author Share Posted December 27, 2007 going to want big money..not sure if at this point with the jets he is worth giving it to. They are not one player away That is true and that's why I tried to emphasize that he's still very young. For arguements sake say he declines when he hits 30. That's 5 years from now and if the Jets can't fix the defense in 5 years then wow. Don't you think he has enough years left in him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4HCrew Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 fair enough point..but then my counter would be do the Jets need a pass rusher more or a run stuffer in the middle? I think the lack of interior linemen kills the pass rushing abilities of others. But then again how many of them would be available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gang_green03 Posted December 27, 2007 Author Share Posted December 27, 2007 fair enough point..but then my counter would be do the Jets need a pass rusher more or a run stuffer in the middle? I think the lack of interior linemen kills the pass rushing abilities of others. But then again how many of them would be available Again thats true. They do need a NT more than anything. I just don't think any will be available. This wouldn't affect the draft because there's no 1st round worth NTs. In FA there's Haynesworth who could probably do it effectively but I don't see the Titans letting him go anywhere. Plus, I see more holes in him as a FA. This is the first time he's playing at this high a level and its a contract year, that worries me. Also, he's not quite as young and has never played NT before so there's still a question about that. They do need to be all over him if he's available though. Rogers is possible trade bait from the Lions but he's to out of shape and inconsistant for my liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4HCrew Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 not sure about Haynesworth for the point you mentioned and Rogers want nothing to do with...if only the Jets would primarily stick to the 4-3 this problem could go away ha ha I hope the Jets just draft a ton of linemen in this draft. I like the Suggs idea just not sure of the money...the Jets will have a ton of cap room so it will be interesting..in the past they have been known to be frugal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gang_green03 Posted December 27, 2007 Author Share Posted December 27, 2007 not sure about Haynesworth for the point you mentioned and Rogers want nothing to do with...if only the Jets would primarily stick to the 4-3 this problem could go away ha ha I hope the Jets just draft a ton of linemen in this draft. I like the Suggs idea just not sure of the money...the Jets will have a ton of cap room so it will be interesting..in the past they have been known to be frugal Yea that's basically my main point. If money is the only negative and you have plenty of it, then whats the downside? Hopefully they spend some money this offseason in the trenches on both sides. I'm really hoping for Jordan Gross if he's available or maybe Stacey Andrews. Maybe I'll even get my wish and Suggs won't be re-signed lol. Whatever they do they better be serious players in FA this year cause we have to many holes to fill solely through the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4HCrew Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 I think there were some rumors that he was not going to be re-signed..at some point the Ravens have to spend money on the offense. Not a bad thought, speed and intensity is something this defense needs..no more band aids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecurb2369 sells used cars Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Not worth it at all... the JETS have too many holes... they need to draft a Suggs not overpay for one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4HCrew Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 they need to draft a ton of players but can only get lucky so many times..at some point have to pay for some talent...not Kimo talent REAL TALENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Not worth it at all... the JETS have too many holes... they need to draft a Suggs not overpay for one... Why cant the Jets sign Suggs and then draft another pass rusher? Signing a FA does not nullify the Jets draft. Would you not be happy if the Jets signed a FA o-lineman and then drafted one or two others for depth and development? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Why cant the Jets sign Suggs and then draft another pass rusher? Signing a FA does not nullify the Jets draft. Would you not be happy if the Jets signed a FA o-lineman and then drafted one or two others for depth and development? To be fair, the hypothetical had the Jets trading their #1 (between 3&5 overall according to the hypo) and giving a huge contract to a franchised Suggs. I'd say that does lean towards precluding another pass rusher. If the Jets give a huge contract and their #1 for Suggs it will be difficult to fill the holes on the line and add another rusher. Suggs would be great, but I'd probably look elsewhere if/when he were franchised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMaynard Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 they need to draft a ton of players but can only get lucky so many times..at some point have to pay for some talent...not Kimo talent REAL TALENT Yes, but Kimo had a great lockerroom presence. The guy was the worst starting DE I have ever seen in watching the NFL for 40 years. I don't care if he was Winston Churchill in the lockerroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 If we were going to take Long or Ghoulston with a pick around #5, then I'd take Suggs, since he is the upside of what you're hoping for from a rookie. Plus he steps right in at a high level from day one - no need to wait until year 2 (or year 3) for a draftee to reach his potential. Money is less of a factor when you're trading a top-5 pick away. The #5 pick is going to get about $20M guaranteed on about a $40M-ish deal anyway. But for the first year - maybe two; maybe never - he's (probably) not going to perform at a superstar level. Suggs is actually the better bargain with the $ shelled out to top-5 picks these days. What would he get? $22M guaranteed on a 6 year/$55M deal? Something like that? Since you're (theoretically) getting 1-2 additional years of superstar-type performance out of him on that same 6-year contract, it's not that far off. Plus there is no bust-factor (unless he turns into a lazy sack of sh**), no holding out, etc. I prefer trading down and acquiring more than 1 player for that top-5 pick, but if we can't find a trade partner, I wouldn't balk at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 To be fair, the hypothetical had the Jets trading their #1 (between 3&5 overall according to the hypo) and giving a huge contract to a franchised Suggs. I'd say that does lean towards precluding another pass rusher. If the Jets give a huge contract and their #1 for Suggs it will be difficult to fill the holes on the line and add another rusher. Suggs would be great, but I'd probably look elsewhere if/when he were franchised. Fair enough. It would akin to trading McFadden or Ryan for Suggs. Though the Jets would have more leverage v BAL since BAL doesnt want to commit more big dollars on the defensive side of the ball in favor of getting either the high end RB prospect or a potential franchise QB. ie, in a perfect world BAL wouldnt even have to franchise Suggs given its anemic offense and other commitments on defense. The Jets should get back more than Suggs for the third pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Terrell Suggs isnt Demarcus Ware, so I say no. - But this was brought up by a poster at JI (kerry rhodes): What about swapping 1st rd picks with the ravens (we have #3, they have #8), they give us Suggs, they get to take the QB they want at #3. Maybe we give them Vilma too on top of that or a 3rd rd pick. We'd still have a top 10 pick, plus we get Suggs, assuming they franchise tag him -. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Terrell Suggs isnt Demarcus Ware, so I say no. - But this was brought up by a poster at JI (kerry rhodes): What about swapping 1st rd picks with the ravens (we have #3, they have #8), they give us Suggs, they get to take the QB they want at #3. Maybe we give them Vilma too on top of that or a 3rd rd pick. We'd still have a top 10 pick, plus we get Suggs, assuming they franchise tag him -. Thoughts? I'm pretty sure they'll get one of the QB's at #8. They are supposedly in favour of Woodson so my guess is he'll be available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gang_green03 Posted December 28, 2007 Author Share Posted December 28, 2007 If we were going to take Long or Ghoulston with a pick around #5, then I'd take Suggs, since he is the upside of what you're hoping for from a rookie. Plus he steps right in at a high level from day one - no need to wait until year 2 (or year 3) for a draftee to reach his potential. Money is less of a factor when you're trading a top-5 pick away. The #5 pick is going to get about $20M guaranteed on about a $40M-ish deal anyway. But for the first year - maybe two; maybe never - he's (probably) not going to perform at a superstar level. Suggs is actually the better bargain with the $ shelled out to top-5 picks these days. What would he get? $22M guaranteed on a 6 year/$55M deal? Something like that? Since you're (theoretically) getting 1-2 additional years of superstar-type performance out of him on that same 6-year contract, it's not that far off. Plus there is no bust-factor (unless he turns into a lazy sack of sh**), no holding out, etc. I prefer trading down and acquiring more than 1 player for that top-5 pick, but if we can't find a trade partner, I wouldn't balk at this. Exactly my point. He's already at the "ceiling" of any pass rusher we draft. Also, I think his value is greater than any player in this draft for us because he's elite, young, and at a position of need. It would be like drafting him. Would you draft an unproven player like Gholston or Long over him when he's already at a high level? Even McFadden could bust and we'd need to give him an o-line anyway. I would prefer to trade down as well but I see that as somewhat unlikely. I ask the people saying its not enough, what are the chances a player we draft becomes elite at his position? Why not take the player that's proven he can be elite in the NFL rather than a prospect who only has the potential to be elite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 if you guys want a player to covet, Patrick Willis on the 49ers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 if you guys want a player to covet, Patrick Willis on the 49ers I did "covet" him. I asked before the draft if the board would trade Vilma for the chance to draft Willis and I believe the concensus was "no". I would have done it in a second. Not exactly related to a thread on Suggs who is a FA and will be obtainable even if franchised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Hell no. Suggs is good, but "elite" is not a word I'd use to describe him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 You know what, call me crazy but I would do that trade in a second. The 1B need on this defense, in my opinion, is a pass rushing specialist at Outside Linebacker. 1A is obviously a bigger body at Nose Tackle, but there is nobody there in the Top 5 or even Top 10 that would fit into the NFL as a 34 NT. So, with that in mind, and Suggs being only 25 years of age, why the heck not? He is a very, very good player, can fight off an Offensive Lineman and would provide the Jets with a big time pass rushing threat. This would also help Bryan Thomas on the other side as he would get more one on one looks and sometimes wouldn't even be picked up at all. We could see Thomas revert to his 2006 self with Suggs rushing the blind side of the Quarterback, where Thomas was last year and for some reason unknown to man, where Hobson plays this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayKwaz Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 He started to show me something at the end of the year. I would like him to start opposite Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 He started to show me something at the end of the year. I would like him to start opposite Thomas. No thanks. Not built to be a 34 OLB, in my opinion. He did a nice job keeping and eye on Roethlisberger in the Pittsburgh win and is decent in the run game, but he's much more suited as a 43 DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I did "covet" him. I asked before the draft if the board would trade Vilma for the chance to draft Willis and I believe the concensus was "no". I would have done it in a second. Not exactly related to a thread on Suggs who is a FA and will be obtainable even if franchised. really? then people on here smoke crack bc willis is a BEAST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 really? then people on here smoke crack bc willis is a BEAST Before the draft things aren't always so clear cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Before the draft things aren't always so clear cut. they were with my boy Reggie Bush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 they were with my boy Reggie Bush It wasn't clear to me that Aaron Stecker would out play him on offense when he was knocked out with an injury. It is now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 It wasn't clear to me that Aaron Stecker would out play him on offense when he was knocked out with an injury. It is now though. lol it was a lucky game reggie wouldve had 200 yards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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