If we switched to the 4-3 D, wouldn't we better off?!

[#90]

DE- Sean Ellis, DT, D-Rob DT- Sedrick Ellis DE- Bryan Thomas

Back up's- David Bowens- DE - CJ Mosley- DT - Kenyon Coleman DE/DT

LB's- Victor Hobson(strong side) - David Harris- MLB - J. Vilma (weak side)

Back up's - Chatam, FA signings/ Draft picks!

Doesn't that seem to make more sense than going another year without a monster NT in the middle? Without the dominant NOSE, the 3-4 will not work...Period.

Am I crazy???????

[Barton]

NO!!!!!

SO STOP TALKING ABOUT IT!

Thank you.

[Favorite_Toon]

DE- Sean Ellis, DT, D-Rob DT- Sedrick Ellis DE- Bryan Thomas

Back up's- David Bowens- DE - CJ Mosley- DT - Kenyon Coleman DE/DT

LB's- Victor Hobson(strong side) - David Harris- MLB - J. Vilma (weak side)

Back up's - Chatam, FA signings/ Draft picks!

Doesn't that seem to make more sense than going another year without a monster NT in the middle? Without the dominant NOSE, the 3-4 will not work...Period.

Am I crazy???????

Your not crazy..I been saying that forever..go back to the 4-3.. we have the players to make it work..instead of trying to find players to fit the system.

[BUM-KNEE]

DE- Sean Ellis, DT, D-Rob DT- Sedrick Ellis DE- Bryan Thomas

Back up's- David Bowens- DE - CJ Mosley- DT - Kenyon Coleman DE/DT

LB's- Victor Hobson(strong side) - David Harris- MLB - J. Vilma (weak side)

Back up's - Chatam, FA signings/ Draft picks!

Doesn't that seem to make more sense than going another year without a monster NT in the middle? Without the dominant NOSE, the 3-4 will not work...Period.

Am I crazy???????

Personally I want us to stay in the 3-4, the results will be positive in the long run when proper pieces are in place.

[Irish Jet]

NO!!!!!

SO STOP TALKING ABOUT IT!

Thank you.

Yeah, show some Balls #90.

[drago]

later in the season (not sure why it took mangina this long to figure it out) we played Ellis at strong side linebacker, d-rob and pouha inside, with coleman outside. It wasn't great against the pass, but it stopped the run every time, every time i noticed the formation anyway.

Mangini said when he took the job here, that he would run a 3-4, a 2-5, a 1-6 or whatever worked. So far he has only done that when he is pressed firmly in the corner (smizzy set down the vasoline). the Man-Gina needs to impliment it much more often on running downs.

In summary, no, you are not crazy. (although, take hobson out of the starting lineup, take him out back and make like Old Yeller)

[C-Mart28]

I think this team is so far into the transition into the 34 that it is almost to late to turn back.

IMO these first few years have been about weeding out the players on D who can and cant play that 34 scheme. Guys like Vilma, Ellis, DRob, Hobson.

In part I also think that was part of the reason, the CS expected certain players to imrove on 2006 performances with more time working within the scheme and they simply didnt (Vilma) or even regressed (B. Thomas).

[Barton]

When we have one of the best defenses in the league in a couple years I am going to laugh at all of you. 2 years into a rebuilding defense, in which the defense under the 3-4 was better than it was ever as a 4-3 (2004 aside) and you want to scrap it so you can put Shaun Ellis and Bryan Thomas as your defensive ends. lol.

Ride or die with the 3-4, no turning back now.

[124]

The team we have now is still better built for the 43. Lets see what happens in Free Agency and the Draft. But, its not a bad thing to look and see what the front seven would look like:

DE - Shaun Ellis & Bryan Thomas/David Bowens

DT - Dewayne Robertson & Sione Pouha/Kenyon Coleman/CJ Mosley

OLB - Eric Barton

MLB - David Harris/Jonathan Vilma

OLB - Victor Hobson/David Harris

[Irish Jet]

The team we have now is still better built for the 43. Lets see what happens in Free Agency and the Draft. But, its not a bad thing to look and see what the front seven would look like:

DE - Shaun Ellis & Bryan Thomas/David Bowens

DT - Dewayne Robertson & Sione Pouha/Kenyon Coleman/CJ Mosley

OLB - Eric Barton

MLB - David Harris/Jonathan Vilma

OLB - Victor Hobson/David Harris

IF we were to switch then:

A) We would draft either Ellis or Dorsey if available no questions asked.

Harris would not be moving outside, IMO Vilma would.

C) We'd still have a horrible pass rush

I'm with Barton on this, it's too late to turn back now IMO, it would also be Mangini conceding that it was a stupid move to begin with. No way he gives up on the 3-4 now.

[124]

IF we were to switch then:

A) We would draft either Ellis or Dorsey if available no questions asked.

Harris would not be moving outside, IMO Vilma would.

C) We'd still have a horrible pass rush

I'm with Barton on this, it's too late to turn back now IMO, it would also be Mangini conceding that it was a stupid move to begin with. No way he gives up on the 3-4 now.

Vilma would either be kept inside or dealt. No way is he suited for the 43 OLB role. He's strictly a 43 MLB. David Harris could play either OLB or MLB.

The pass rush wouldn't be great, but a tad better. I'd be all for unloading Robertson and starting fresh with Ellis and Pouha.

[Favorite_Toon]

IF we were to switch then:

A) We would draft either Ellis or Dorsey if available no questions asked.

Harris would not be moving outside, IMO Vilma would.

C) We'd still have a horrible pass rush

I'm with Barton on this, it's too late to turn back now IMO, it would also be Mangini conceding that it was a stupid move to begin with. No way he gives up on the 3-4 now.

I think mangini is on borrowed time... he is indeed on the hot seat..and im sure he wil not last through another 4 win season..

[Greenseed3]

IF we were to switch then:

C) We'd still have a horrible pass rush

Bingo. The Correct answer is "C". The Giants just displayed to the world how to beat NE.

Not that we have a pass-rush right now, but at least we can disguise where our lack of a pass-rush is coming from.

[Arsis]

I don't see us doing any better in the 4-3, I think we'd probably do worse. We really don't have the personnel for the 4-3 either. We just have a bunch of ****ty football players on our team, period, end of story.

[NOExcusesNYJ]

you are right but its not gonna happen. the movement now is to get the 3-4 in place WHICH TAKES TIME. it will work out once we get the pieces in place

[Irish Jet]

I don't see us doing any better in the 4-3, I think we'd probably do worse. We really don't have the personnel for the 4-3 either. We just have a bunch of ****ty football players on our team, period, end of story.

Exactly.

Guys like D-Rob and Vilma were pretty overated in the 4-3 (Just because they are more suited there, people act like they were elite when they played there)

Thomas is a horrible player, anywhere but at least he showed glimpses as a 3-4 OLB. he would be even worse at DE. Ellis is average, too inconsistent no matter what scheme IMO.

[jaspegs]

I actually like the 3-4 better. You can disguise blitzes better and all the good teams play it. Its gonna pay off in the long run.

[Irish Jet]

I actually like the 3-4 better. You can disguise blitzes better and all the good teams play it. Its gonna pay off in the long run.

Yup.

I've said all along that a well run 3-4 defence is better than a well run 4-3 D.

That's why I ike the idea of this scheme. I just wish we could find the players and coaching (Not Sutton:confused0058:) to execute it properly.

[RSJ]

DE- Sean Ellis, DT, D-Rob DT- Sedrick Ellis DE- Bryan Thomas

Back up's- David Bowens- DE - CJ Mosley- DT - Kenyon Coleman DE/DT

LB's- Victor Hobson(strong side) - David Harris- MLB - J. Vilma (weak side)

Back up's - Chatam, FA signings/ Draft picks!

Doesn't that seem to make more sense than going another year without a monster NT in the middle? Without the dominant NOSE, the 3-4 will not work...Period.

Am I crazy???????

It still doesn't take care of the major problems though.

The two main problems in the first half of the season were:

1) No pass rush.

2) Can't stop the run.

We will still have those problems if we switch to a 4-3 and you could make the argument that both issues will only be further magnified because atleast now we can use creative fronts and blitz packages like we did in the second half of the season.

People have short memories here - but if they remember it takes a while for a rookie DT to get the hand fighting down that is need to succeed at the pro level one gap system. That is also if Ellis has the ablility to play that DT position next to D Rob which would essentially be the same position that J Fergeson played in 2004, Anthony McFarland plays with the Colts and Haynesworth plays with the Titans. That position is the exact same thing that you would ask a NT to do. Combine that with no good defensive end and it would have disaster written all over it. Also we don't even know if Vilma can walk at this point, let alone play weakside LB.

[#27TheDominator]

OMG, I agree with Barton! This is a pretty flawed premise. Trying to play to the "strengths" of crappy players like Ellis? Pouha pretty much blows. Thomas absolutely sucked in the 4-3. The LBs at 4-3 are a disaster. Vilma can't play outside. Harris might, but it's far from his strength. Aging Eric Barton seemed better at ILB in 3-4 than OLB in 4-3 and Hobson is a FA. We are doing this to get playing time for Pouha and CJ Mosley? Ridiculous. The only player I'd be excited about in the 4-3 is the draft pick.

[afosomf]

do you guys watch football?

How many points did the 3-4 D's of Dal and Pitt give up to Pats?

The freakin Gints gave everyone the blueprint to beat them and it is not the

3-4!!!!

The only way to compete vs Pats is to go back to 4-3 and sh1tcan all

our dead wood.

F the 3-4, if we stay in it for 2008 we will continue to finish in 3rd place

in AFC least.

Drob might actually be serviceable in a 4-3

[RSJ]

do you guys watch football?

How many points did the 3-4 D's of Dal and Pitt give up to Pats?

The freakin Gints gave everyone the blueprint to beat them and it is not the

3-4!!!!

The only way to compete vs Pats is to go back to 4-3 and sh1tcan all

our dead wood.

F the 3-4, if we stay in it for 2008 we will continue to finish in 3rd place

in AFC least.

Drob might actually be serviceable in a 4-3

You do realize that the Giants copied what the Jets did to the Pats in order to beat them right? You also realize that the Jets defense gave up less points to the Pats then the Giants right?

Just checkin.........

[afosomf]

You do realize that the Giants copied what the Jets did to the Pats in order to beat them right? You also realize that the Jets defense gave up less points to the Pats then the Giants right?

Just checkin.........

check again skippy, the jets game was played in a quagmire?

weather is a great equalizer

Gints played them on a fast track in a dome and hit brady so many times

he was screaming at his line

They were in a 4-3 D skippy. thought you were ignoring my posts

[RSJ]

check again skippy, the jets game was played in a quagmire?

weather is a great equalizer

Gints played them on a fast track in a dome and hit brady so many times

he was screaming at his line

They were in a 4-3 D skippy. thought you were ignoring my posts

Hahaha.

You do realize that the Super Bowl was played on natural grass right?

But I digress....

The Pats have field turf and there was hardly any precipitation at game time. Field conditions were near perfect. The only issue is that it was cold - but it was cold in NJ that day too. We don't play the Pats in perfect conditions so there is no need to build a team around winning in them.

Again read the Giants players quotes. They said that they watch the tape of the Jets defense in order to gameplan for the Pats.

[JETSFAN5180]

3-4 OR 4-3 It dont matter we dont have quality players to play either.

Lets all put down the crack pipes and get real.

This team is in very bad shape.

[#27TheDominator]

check again skippy, the jets game was played in a quagmire?

weather is a great equalizer

Gints played them on a fast track in a dome and hit brady so many times

he was screaming at his line

They were in a 4-3 D skippy. thought you were ignoring my posts

Pats dropped 38 on the Giants "4-3 blueprint" week 17.

[Sperm Edwards]

do you guys watch football?

How many points did the 3-4 D's of Dal and Pitt give up to Pats?

The freakin Gints gave everyone the blueprint to beat them and it is not the

3-4!!!!

The only way to compete vs Pats is to go back to 4-3 and sh1tcan all

our dead wood.

F the 3-4, if we stay in it for 2008 we will continue to finish in 3rd place

in AFC least.

Drob might actually be serviceable in a 4-3

Those same Giants also gave up 38 points to them in week 17. Accept it - the superbowl was the perfect storm. Giants blitzed like mad, the players had GREAT games, Brady was off (for Brady) and there was a media circus around the Pats where it seemed every player was spending a good amount of time giving interviews b/c of both Spygate and the perfect season stuff.

The Jets' crappy 3-4 defense held that Patriots offense to 13 points in our second matchup last year & it was sandwiched in between 4-TD performances by NE. It was the fewest points the Patriots scored against anyone the whole season.

[RSJ]

Those same Giants also gave up 38 points to them in week 17. Accept it - the superbowl was the perfect storm. Giants blitzed like mad, the players had GREAT games, Brady was off (for Brady) and there was a media circus around the Pats where it seemed every player was spending a good amount of time giving interviews b/c of both Spygate and the perfect season stuff.

The Jets' crappy 3-4 defense held that Patriots offense to 13 points in our second matchup last year & it was sandwiched in between 4-TD performances by NE. It was the fewest points the Patriots scored against anyone the whole season.

Actually the Jets defense held the Pats to 6 points and I believe 3 of them were because of an extremly short field.

The defense isn't the problem folks. Although we could use another player or two. The offense is the disaster we need to fix.

[JETSFAN5180]

OFFENSE WINS GAMES----DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS

[Irish Jet]

Those same Giants also gave up 38 points to them in week 17. Accept it - the superbowl was the perfect storm. Giants blitzed like mad, the players had GREAT games, Brady was off (for Brady) and there was a media circus around the Pats where it seemed every player was spending a good amount of time giving interviews b/c of both Spygate and the perfect season stuff.

The Jets' crappy 3-4 defense held that Patriots offense to 13 points in our second matchup last year & it was sandwiched in between 4-TD performances by NE. It was the fewest points the Patriots scored against anyone the whole season.

The Jets D actually held the Pats to 6 points when you consider their 2nd TD came from a blocked punt which set them up at the goaline.

We still didn't get much of a pass rush in that game though, Brady was just really bad that day and our secondary really stepped up.

[RSJ]

The Jets D actually held the Pats to 6 points when you consider their 2nd TD came from a blocked punt which set them up at the goaline.

We still didn't get much of a pass rush in that game though, Brady was just really bad that day and our secondary really stepped up.

I disagree, the Jets hit Brady A LOT that game.

[afosomf]

Those same Giants also gave up 38 points to them in week 17. Accept it - the superbowl was the perfect storm. Giants blitzed like mad, the players had GREAT games, Brady was off (for Brady) and there was a media circus around the Pats where it seemed every player was spending a good amount of time giving interviews b/c of both Spygate and the perfect season stuff.

The Jets' crappy 3-4 defense held that Patriots offense to 13 points in our second matchup last year & it was sandwiched in between 4-TD performances by NE. It was the fewest points the Patriots scored against anyone the whole season.

with all due respect Sperm, the gints were playing for Nada in 1st game and

Spag made it clear that there gameplan was not to show the pats very much

Playing the pats in rain and wind is hardly a good measuring stick. If you want to get your rocks off so be it.

[RSJ]

with all due respect Sperm, the gints were playing for Nada in 1st game and

Spag made it clear that there gameplan was not to show the pats very much

Playing the pats in rain and wind is hardly a good measuring stick. If you want to get your rocks off so be it.

It wasn't windy or rainy. The forecast called for it - but in all reality the field conditions were fine. The Giants admitted to watching tape on the Jets to learn how to defend the Pats and the Jets gave up half the points.

[afosomf]

It wasn't windy or rainy. The forecast called for it - but in all reality the field conditions were fine. The Giants admitted to watching tape on the Jets to learn how to defend the Pats and the Jets gave up half the points.

we will nevah agree on anything

FOXBOROUGH, Mass. (AP) -- The Patriots found another way to stay unbeaten -- with a running game. And their stone-faced coach showed a new way to greet his nemesis -- with a smile.

Facing rain, wind and chilly gusts above 20 mph, New England relied on Laurence Maroney's rushing instead of Tom Brady's passing and beat the New York Jets 20-10 Sunday in the Spygate rematch to clinch home-field advantage throughout the AFC playoffs.

[RSJ]

we will nevah agree on anything

FOXBOROUGH, Mass. (AP) -- The Patriots found another way to stay unbeaten -- with a running game. And their stone-faced coach showed a new way to greet his nemesis -- with a smile.

Facing rain, wind and chilly gusts above 20 mph, New England relied on Laurence Maroney's rushing instead of Tom Brady's passing and beat the New York Jets 20-10 Sunday in the Spygate rematch to clinch home-field advantage throughout the AFC playoffs.

20 mph is hardly wind and the rain was on and off. Really doesn't impact much on field turf though.