TaborJet Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 from the Daily Record August 24, 2008 Boonton Twp. man: Jets, Giants extorting the fans Fan holds rally to protest personal seat licenses By Meghan Van Dyk Daily RecordEAST RUTHERFORD -- Two dozen Jets and Giants fans who gathered in the shadows of the $1.6 billion joint stadium under construction in the Meadowlands agreed on one thing Saturday afternoon -- imposed fees for personal seat licenses are unfair. One of those fans was Riverdale resident Henri Zevin. If the policy for the Jets' personal seat licenses fees is anything like that of the Giants, the 38-year-old said he will have to say goodbye to the two mezzanine tickets -- one of the 50-yard line, the other on the 49 -- that have been in his family for 40 years. 'Selective extortion' "This is selective extortion," Zevin said. "I didn't ask for a new stadium, so why I am being charged for it? To see it end this way is wrong, is disheartening." Held before the two teams sparred off in the preseason match-up, the rally against the personal seat licenses was organized by die-hard Gang Green fan and Boonton Township resident Steve Kern. PSLs, as they are more commonly known, are the fees the two National Football League teams will require current season-ticket holders to pay to help cover the cost for the joint $1.6 billion stadium set to be completed in 2010. Kern, 44, has been a Jets season-ticket holder for 15 seasons, and though the Jets have not yet released their PSL plan, he's expecting fees such as those imposed by the Giants -- between $1,000 per upper-deck seat to $20,000 for each field-level seat. "Jets and Giants fans can both agree that we expect to pay more for things living so close to New York, but not 10 times more than what the average PSL holders pay," Kern said. "That is grossly unfair for the regular fan." Kern's goal for the rally was to raise awareness of PSLs, and to present alternatives to the current arrangements, including limiting PSLs only to the most expensive seats, a five-year freeze on season-ticket prices and giving season ticket holders the right to advance purchase tickets to other stadium events. Others, like Chris Lehmann, 48, of Bradley Beach, said they felt there should be no PSL fees. "The construction cost of the stadium could be covered by the naming rights to the stadium, the four entrances and scoreboards being sold alone," Lehmann said. "It should not be hitting any fan, even those with the best seats. But since there probably will be some type of fee, I just hope it's a reasonable one." The football teams have said PSL revenue is necessary because the stadium is not receiving government financing. Kern estimated that 46 percent of the stadium construction cost is being paid by PSL payments, which exist at 13 of the 30 other NFL stadiums. PSLs can be resold for profit, but most longtime fans are not viewing their season tickets as an investment. "I want to be able to give my tickets to my son," said Tod Cagan, 38, of East Meadow, N.Y., who received his tickets three years ago after waiting 16 years on the list. "If the teams leave in 15 years, then I don't get a cent. The reality is, I am going to pay it, but I don't want to risk my money to see my team play." Fan testimonials taped While the rally's turnout was smaller than Kern expected, he still plans to send the 10 fan testimonies he collected on video to the management of the Jets and Giants teams. Kern's 11-year-old son, Jordan, a fifth-grader at Rockaway Valley Elementary School, said he hopes the team's management weighs fans' opinions before making their decision on PSL fees, set to be released within the next two weeks. "I don't know what (Jets owners) John Marra and Woody Johnson are thinking, but PSLs are theft," Jordan said, wearing a Brett Favre jersey. "This is a good cause, and I'm proud that we at least tried to stand up against it. I'm proud of my dad, proud to be his son." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Chris speaks up for all the fans-unfortunately this is all going down and the exact fees I am sure will be out any day this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodWearsAGrayHoodie Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Two dozen people showed up. Out of all the Giants and Jets fans combined. The ground swell is larger than anyone imagined. The Jets and Giants are going to have to cave now or risk a huge backlash, imagine if each of those disgruntled fans canceled season tickets, that might represent 0.001% of the waiting list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 You're proud of this? You should be embarassed to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaumerJet Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Chris speaks up for all the fans-unfortunately this is all going down and the exact fees I am sure will be out any day this week. Was that one of the 24 people out of 60,000 who showed up? Especially since the creator of the rally CAN AFFORD THE HIGHEST PSL FEE FOR NOT JUST HIMSELF BUT ONLY 2 SEASON TICKETS ?!! Fans like Joisey & the rest only got on the bandwagon against the PSL after the organization finally came forward that Yes, there are going to be PSL's. Chris & others never listened & when the proverbial "Horse had left the barn," took the N.I.M.B.Y. approach and then complained. That's why only 24 Jets/Giants fans showed up for the rally & why many have already either given up or if they can afford it, they will pay it. It's all now the nature of the beast & there is not a damn thing we can do about it. I told you all so 4-years ago - long before we broke ground in the Meadowlands... http://videos.nj.com/star-ledger/2008/08/personal_seat_license_public_r.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 I can't believe only 24 people showed up. WOW. I was gonna go and hand out JetNation.com business cards. I do give him credit for trying to do something. The timing was off though. Giants fans already have their info, why would they show up. The Jets are sending out their info this week. It is truly too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaumerJet Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 I can't believe only 24 people showed up. WOW. I was gonna go and hand out JetNation.com business cards. I do give him credit for trying to do something. The timing was off though. Giants fans already have their info, why would they show up. The Jets are sending out their info this week. It is truly too late. Exactly my point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Exactly my point! What is the NIMBY approach anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green DNA Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 What is the NIMBY approach anyway? It's a NAMBLA splinter group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4HCrew Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Baumer actually you are pretty wrong with this one. Joisey has been voicing this stuff since the thought of the new stadium even came up. He has been pretty vocal with his opinions and has tried to communicate with the Jets several times about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodWearsAGrayHoodie Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 What is the NIMBY approach anyway? Not In My Back Yard. Term goes back to the environmental movement. Most environmentalist oppose the building of any toxic waste dumps, nuke plants etc. The NIMBY groups would not join on in the we shouldn't build nuke plants...they were all for nuke plants just in somebody else's community. Not sure why it was being used in the context it was used, it doesn't really fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Chris has been out in front in disputing this and I still have a hard time with some of you giving grief to someone protesting higher fees and prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garb Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Chris has been out in front in disputing this and I still have a hard time with some of you giving grief to someone protesting higher fees and prices. Agreed. Not that this is any of my business, but you have to admire his passion regarding this (and his team, quite frankly). I think it's cool that he's trying to do something about it rather than just complain on an MB. A futile battle, most likely, but kudos to Christ for his efforts beyond MB rants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joiseyjet Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 I thank those who have spoke up here for me & Baummer since I have been argueing with you on this since It was first brought up ,you of all people sould know that is the case & I`ve called the JET off on this ,I wish I could get 20 minutes with Woody and while my pic. or name was mentioned in a few papers I have to say I was dissapointed most didn`t print what I said accurately like the article listed above ,you have all seen me lay out here numerous times the 2 Billion Dollars that will be raised in Revenue in naming rights and in spite of all that money I never said there should be no PSL at all what I said is I was ok with a PSL as long as it is Reasonable ,with the revenue comming in that blows away any revenue any other stadium had comming in the highest PSL in the stadium should be $2,500 and it should be interest free & if they are going to be higher as they probably are it should be set up so we get it broken down into payments of no more then $2,500 a year like in my case according to the Giant rates my PSL would be 4 tix at a $5,000PSL each so give me 8 years at $2,500 interest free ,Woody gets his money ,I& others can afford and keep my tix. Baummer I said a lot more, Now if you`d like to give crap to anyone about complaing about this feel free ,but don`t give me any crap cause I showed up and spoke up & put my money where my mouth was & if Woody while give me 30 minutes and enough notice I`ll meet with him anywhere to discuss this ,I only got about 2 min. with him at the Wash. game in the lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vudu Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 A measly 24 people will not even get the big wigs to bat an eyelash...A for effort though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaumerJet Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 What is the NIMBY approach anyway? Not In My Back Yard Approach. Everyone was all for a "brand new" facility, either here or in Manhattan - that was before PSL's became a reality... Then it became a N.I.M.B.Y. situation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSFAN5180 Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 That rally was a joke.I talked to a few guys who attended the game and they were too embarrassed to go any where near the stage.Fans were too busy drinking and tailgating. PSLs are COMING...............NOTHING is going to stop them. Rally on!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaumerJet Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Baumer actually you are pretty wrong with this one. Joisey has been voicing this stuff since the thought of the new stadium even came up. He has been pretty vocal with his opinions and has tried to communicate with the Jets several times about it. While it is true that Chris has voiced about a possible exchange for PSL's in the past & did contact the Jets Offices over this - They (NYJ LLP) continued to spew the "we are not considering PSL's" swerve & Chris did buy into it... I never have & each time both on this site & one that shall not be named - I was constantly advised that I was nuts to think that the JETS would ever charge a PSL. Chris, you did speak up - which I am not going to snap at you over - some of you ideas would have lessened the burden to the season ticket holder. Still, while the organization may have heard you views - they did nothing to change their original plan. As for this latest issue, it took place when there was a no win scenario & based on the turnout - it didn't effect anything. Needless to say, it's August 24, 2008 & in about 5 days from now, the Jets organization will begin to mail out the PSL request forms to their season ticket holders. And I will be looking at a new Sharp 43" for the 2009 season beginning Saturday morning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaumerJet Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Not In My Back Yard. Term goes back to the environmental movement. Most environmentalist oppose the building of any toxic waste dumps, nuke plants etc. The NIMBY groups would not join on in the we shouldn't build nuke plants...they were all for nuke plants just in somebody else's community. Not sure why it was being used in the context it was used, it doesn't really fit. Again, as in my last post, it does. Those who rallied when the building is almost built suddenly go anti-PSL when they are finally informed that it's a reality. It's relatively NIMBY... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4HCrew Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 I just do not see your point Baumer whatsover.. I do not think Chris bought into anything nor do I buy into your renegade attitude or told you so approach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 I just do not see your point Baumer whatsover.. I do not think Chris bought into anything nor do I buy into your renegade attitude or told you so approach I actually don't remember anyone here saying the Jets would never charge us PSLs. I remember writing an article about ticket prices two years ago. I remember Tyson being VERY critical of the Jets as well. Maybe there were some here who said that the Jets wouldn't charge PSLs, the overwhelming majority always felt like we were going to get screwed over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joiseyjet Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Again Baummer my main complaint is not to do away with the PSL totaly ,it is to make them interest free cause they are already going to cost your avg. fan more then he can afford & extend the time fans can pay these off ,this way the billionaire owners still get there cash and us long time fans get to keep the same good seats we`ve had and still want to keep ,Baummer I have been to more JET games Home & Away & more JETevents over the last 3 decades ,I don`t think it was to much to ask Woody to talk to me for a lousey 1/2 an hour before locking this in thats all... While it is true that Chris has voiced about a possible exchange for PSL's in the past & did contact the Jets Offices over this - They (NYJ LLP) continued to spew the "we are not considering PSL's" swerve & Chris did buy into it... I never have & each time both on this site & one that shall not be named - I was constantly advised that I was nuts to think that the JETS would ever charge a PSL. Chris, you did speak up - which I am not going to snap at you over - some of you ideas would have lessened the burden to the season ticket holder. Still, while the organization may have heard you views - they did nothing to change their original plan. As for this latest issue, it took place when there was a no win scenario & based on the turnout - it didn't effect anything. Needless to say, it's August 24, 2008 & in about 5 days from now, the Jets organization will begin to mail out the PSL request forms to their season ticket holders. And I will be looking at a new Sharp 43" for the 2009 season beginning Saturday morning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSFAN5180 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 How much longer than 5 years do want to extend the payment on the PSLs. If you cant afford it in 5 years you will never be able to afford it.Should they also tell the construction workers working on the stadium were gonna pay you in increments over 5 years. The PSL either you afford it or you dont!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 lol good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joiseyjet Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 How much longer than 5 years do want to extend the payment on the PSLs. If you cant afford it in 5 years you will never be able to afford it.Should they also tell the construction workers working on the stadium were gonna pay you in increments over 5 years. The PSL either you afford it or you dont!!!! As I stated $2,500 a years worth tax free per year so in my case going by the Giants PSL rates my seats in SECTION 105 would cost $5,000 each X 4 seats is $20,000 so i`m saying I should be granted 8 years to pay that off ,thats putting away $200 per month just to pay a PSL that doesn`t even include the season ticket price I don`t think that is a unreasonable request as far as the Construction guys go lets not forget (A) THE NFL is throwing in $300,000,000 to help towards Contruction of the new stadium and I guess they didn`t make a few bucks in that stadium over the last 40 years that tax payers helped pay for hmmn. plus they are going to have a minimum of 2 Billion in Revenue comming into the new place ,Next what are you going to do when local schools start charging Parents of kids in local schools to pay for new school constuction and renovations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSFAN5180 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 As I stated $2,500 a years worth tax free per year so in my case going by the Giants PSL rates my seats in SECTION 105 would cost $5,000 each X 4 seats is $20,000 so i`m saying I should be granted 8 years to pay that off ,thats putting away $200 per month just to pay a PSL that doesn`t even include the season ticket price I don`t think that is a unreasonable request as far as the Construction guys go lets not forget (A) THE NFL is throwing in $300,000,000 to help towards Contruction of the new stadium and I guess they didn`t make a few bucks in that stadium over the last 40 years that tax payers helped pay for hmmn. plus they are going to have a minimum of 2 Billion in Revenue comming into the new place ,Next what are you going to do when local schools start charging Parents of kids in local schools to pay for new school constuction and renovations I have no problem with the pay to play rule.As far as parents being charged for school construction and renovations that already comes out of a thing called "property taxes".If additional funding is needed start charging the baby-makers who bleed the system daily and severly. Either you afford it or you dont its plain and simple.Im a working man with kids and a mortgage.I made an early decison to no longer take part in the season ticket fiasco.I purchased 2 games on StubHub no contracts no PSLs just fun and games!!!!!!! I enjoy the NYJETS and they are my team. Not being a season ticket holder has no bearing on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joiseyjet Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I have no problem with the pay to play rule.As far as parents being charged for school construction and renovations that already comes out of a thing called "property taxes".If additional funding is needed start charging the baby-makers who bleed the system daily and severly. Either you afford it or you dont its plain and simple.Im a working man with kids and a mortgage.I made an early decison to no longer take part in the season ticket fiasco.I purchased 2 games on StubHub no contracts no PSLs just fun and games!!!!!!! I enjoy the NYJETS and they are my team. Not being a season ticket holder has no bearing on that. Fine then explain to me why just JET & Giant fans are getting the big royal screw from the tishs ,Mara`s & Woody People attending all those concerts, Soccer games, College football games ,and any other event held in this place aren`t paying any PSL`s to attend events in there So why should I have to pay & they get in for free,and in case you`ve forgotten tax dollars helped fund the old stadium so you know what if there gonna make all this money off of my tax dollars that helped them get to this point ,I want all the TAX money they got from me paid back with heavey intrest too then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSFAN5180 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Fine then explain to me why just JET & Giant fans are getting the big royal screw from the tishs ,Mara`s & Woody People attending all those concerts, Soccer games, College football games ,and any other event held in this place aren`t paying any PSL`s to attend events in there So why should I have to pay & they get in for free,and in case you`ve forgotten tax dollars helped fund the old stadium so you know what if there gonna make all this money off of my tax dollars that helped them get to this point ,I want all the TAX money they got from me paid back with heavey intrest too then. Its all about the $$$$.The JETS and Giants are the big ticket venue in town.NFL = business and $$$$. 2 teams = games 16 weeks a year no other stadium has that. Im not disagreeing with you im a casualty of the PSL. I just abandoned alot ealier than others will.5 years is an adequate time frame to pay off a PSL.Sort of like a car loan.The NYJETS dont have to give you anytime.they could say ticket money and PSL fee due May 1.Those who can afford it pay those who cant or dont want to wont. Good luck in your fight.Im with you man.I just dont see it as accomplishing anything.For those that wont pay there are those that will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickkotite Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Baumer actually you are pretty wrong with this one. Joisey has been voicing this stuff since the thought of the new stadium even came up. He has been pretty vocal with his opinions and has tried to communicate with the Jets several times about it. yea baumer why bash the guy he could have stayed home and cut the grass or have gone to the beach but he went to voice his opinion about a big time injustice im sure he never expexted to change anything,,,,nobody could have even 4 years ago,,, i still throw him props Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickkotite Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 While it is true that Chris has voiced about a possible exchange for PSL's in the past & did contact the Jets Offices over this - They (NYJ LLP) continued to spew the "we are not considering PSL's" swerve & Chris did buy into it... I never have & each time both on this site & one that shall not be named - I was constantly advised that I was nuts to think that the JETS would ever charge a PSL. Chris, you did speak up - which I am not going to snap at you over - some of you ideas would have lessened the burden to the season ticket holder. Still, while the organization may have heard you views - they did nothing to change their original plan. As for this latest issue, it took place when there was a no win scenario & based on the turnout - it didn't effect anything. Needless to say, it's August 24, 2008 & in about 5 days from now, the Jets organization will begin to mail out the PSL request forms to their season ticket holders. And I will be looking at a new Sharp 43" for the 2009 season beginning Saturday morning... so do you just want to prove to everyone that you were right? ook then good for you you were right you get a cookie not for nothing, but i KNEW fans were going to pay for the rich mans new toy 4 years ago and i was always against the new stadium but im not looking for praise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joiseyjet Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 so do you just want to prove to everyone that you were right? ook then good for you you were right you get a cookie not for nothing, but i KNEW fans were going to pay for the rich mans new toy 4 years ago and i was always against the new stadium but im not looking for praise We all knew we were going to pay something Dick ,it`s just we were hoping it would be made into reasonable payments thats all. Rememember these PSL payments didn`t really get out of hand till THEY announced the Dallas one the long weekend I was in Dallas for the JET game last Thanksgiving and just to counter Baummer`s remark of me not complain about this till it got in My Back Yard. they had me on the evening news for two straight days complaining about the rates of their PSL`s that had just been announced ,they figured if a New Yorker thought their PSL`S were high then they were definetly being charged to much because they felt New yorks should be higher then theres cause we were New York. PS. Max the Rally is over feel free to dump this thread now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphklecko73 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 In the giants PSL plan they have only 1 1/2 years to pay it off, why would anyone think they have 5 years??????? Secondly, after the price increase it will be cheaper to fly to Miami and go to the game then go to a home game in NJ.......It's sad but it is almost over.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green DNA Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 People attending all those concerts, Soccer games, College football games ,and any other event held in this place aren`t paying any PSL`s to attend events in there So why should I have to pay & they get in for free. This may be the greatest argument against the proposed PSL structure. The original idea of PSL's were that the owner would have first crack at any event held in the stadium no matter what. That is a non issue since they are selling the same seat twice. If there was any kind of legal footing at all to stand on, this would be it since they are selectively charging only football fans for the licenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joiseyjet Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 In the giants PSL plan they have only 1 1/2 years to pay it off, why would anyone think they have 5 years??????? Secondly, after the price increase it will be cheaper to fly to Miami and go to the game then go to a home game in NJ.......It's sad but it is almost over.... Yes thats the plan the Giants put out,you get three payments ,not including your reg. season ticket bill either (1)20% of the total amout is due by Oct. 2008, (2nd installment is the next 40% of the due balence is due in Aug. of 2009 & the last 40 % that is left is due in Aug.2010 right before the new stadium opens. No one thinks they have 5 years Murph ,but that doesn`t mean we might beable to convince our Billionaire owners to try and work with us a little bit ,just think about what an incredible PR move it would be for the owners if they let the fans pay them $2,500 a year interest free on the balence of their bill if they owe $20,000 give them 8 years to pay it off ,$10,000 4 years to pay it off $5,000 2 years, you get it .All I am asking is to make it reasonable so us slowly disapearing middle class folks can afford to keep their tix. without choosing between your kids education or JET TIX. And if woody meets with me ,I`ll tell him how to make money doing it so everybody wins (not that woody needs me) but at least I am trying to do something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 This may be the greatest argument against the proposed PSL structure. The original idea of PSL's were that the owner would have first crack at any event held in the stadium no matter what. That is a non issue since they are selling the same seat twice. If there was any kind of legal footing at all to stand on, this would be it since they are selectively charging only football fans for the licenses. That is the problem when two people share the same seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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