MVP discussion.....

[JonEJet]

Alot of people have been saying that Mark Teixeira deserves consideration

I nominate this guy

[Jbro22]

Alot of people have been saying that Mark Teixeira deserves consideration

I nominate this guy

The guys over at NoMaas.org are saying the same thing. They got a breakdown of why he's a better candidate then Teixeira.

[Jbro22]

NoMaas.org

Teixeira for MVP? Um, no. For about a week now, the citizens of Yankee Beatwriterville have been campaigning hard for Mark Teixeira as AL MVP. His 146 OPS+ and late-inning heroics have no doubt fueled their erotic passion for the slugger. And make no mistake, we love Teixeira too and we'd let him pour hot candle wax over our hairy chests. But, that doesn't mean he should win the MVP. Because as it stands right now, he shouldn't.

Let's start with the geeky argument and look at Fangraph's rankings for Wins Above Replacement (WAR):

1. Mauer 5.7

2. Zobrist 5.4

3. Longoria 5.3

4. Jeter 4.7

5. Scutaro 4.6

6. Crawford 4.3

7. Youkilis 4.2

8. Teixeira 4.0

According to WAR, there have been 7 other players in the AL more valuable than Teixeira, including one on the same team.

[PS17]

I think most Yankee fans who watch this team daily will agree that Jeter has been by far the best and most consistent player this season.

[PS17]

But if Minnesota makes the playoffs, which thy won't, there should be no debate that Mauer is the MVP.

I believe the MVP should only go to a player on a Playoff team, unless you put up ARod in Texas type numbers.

[Jbro22]

The with Mauer is the fact that he's a catcher and he's putting up the kind of numbers he's putting up. I think I read that a Catcher hasn't put those kind of numbers up since Fisk in the 70's. Pretty sure I got that tidbit from NoMaas.org too.

[DaBrick Wall]

IMO it's Mauer and it's not even close. You just don't see catchers put up these kind of numbers every day.

And yes, Jeter is the MVP of the Yanks. Jeter's been ever so steady this year, and he's arguably having his best defensive season yet.

[Matt39]

Mauer Jeter Teixiera are the top 3.

If Tex goes on a tear to end the season he'll probably win it.

[Vudu]

Mauer's team is 5 games below .500 for ****s sake. The Twins would be 5 games below .500 with or without Mauer. Yeah his #'s are amazing, but does he make his team better? Nope.

Mark Teix or Jeter.

[AFJF]

Mauer's team is 5 games below .500 for ****s sake. The Twins would be 5 games below .500 with or without Mauer. Yeah his #'s are amazing, but does he make his team better? Nope.

Mark Teix or Jeter.

One could also argue that without Mauer the Twins would be 15-20 games under .500.

I don't think the MVP should go to the most valuable player on the team with the best record, but to the player who was most valuable to his team regardless of where they finished in the standings. If the voters feel one guy improved his team by 15-20 while the next guy put up great numbers on a team that was stocked anyway, I can see giving it to the guy who was...well...most valuable.

[Arsis]

Mauer so far and it isn't close.

[Vudu]

One could also argue that without Mauer the Twins would be 15-20 games under .500.

I don't think the MVP should go to the most valuable player on the team with the best record, but to the player who was most valuable to his team regardless of where they finished in the standings. If the voters feel one guy improved his team by 15-20 while the next guy put up great numbers on a team that was stocked anyway, I can see giving it to the guy who was...well...most valuable.

Mark Teixiera has been more valuable to the Yankees than Mauer has been to the Twins this season. The Twins wont even sniff the Post Season this year.

Mark Teixiera's defense alone puts him over the top.

[DaBrick Wall]

Mauer's team is 5 games below .500 for ****s sake. The Twins would be 5 games below .500 with or without Mauer. Yeah his #'s are amazing, but does he make his team better? Nope.

Mark Teix or Jeter.

The Twins wouldn't be close to .500 without Mauer. Put any average catcher in place of Mauer and the Twins suffer accordingly. Mauer's doing everything he can to make his team better, short of hitting 1.000. He can't make the Twins pitch better or make Bill Smith not go out and get a better SS than Nick ****ing Punto for more than half the year.

[PS17]

The Twins wouldn't be close to .500 without Mauer. Put any average catcher in place of Mauer and the Twins suffer accordingly. Mauer's doing everything he can to make his team better, short of hitting 1.000. He can't make the Twins pitch better or make Bill Smith not go out and get a better SS than Nick ****ing Punto for more than half the year.

Twins got Orlando Cabrera.

[Blackout]

jeter is hitting .330 so thats not a bad thing for h is arguement

but id vote for Tex

[Blackout]

The Twins wouldn't be close to .500 without Mauer. Put any average catcher in place of Mauer and the Twins suffer accordingly. Mauer's doing everything he can to make his team better, short of hitting 1.000. He can't make the Twins pitch better or make Bill Smith not go out and get a better SS than Nick ****ing Punto for more than half the year.

mauer missed 30 games that JEter was healthy for

[DaBrick Wall]

Twins got Orlando Cabrera.

Not until the deadline. Which is why I said more than half the year.

[Jaded Green]

What a year Jeter is having, if not for a hall of fame type year by Mauer, he may have been an MVP lock.

I mean look who won it last year, with worse numbers and not even being the best hitter on his own team, obviously nobody had a monster year.

Mauer will probably get it with Jeter and Teixeira stealing votes from eachother.

[Arsis]

tex hitting .280 something shouldn't be stealing any votes from jeter.

[Jaded Green]

tex hitting .280 something shouldn't be stealing any votes from jeter.

You're right, but he will because of his power numbers, it always happens when two guys on the same team have great years.

It's going to help Mauer win it IMO.

[Otter]

Right now Mauer would probably win, because Tex and Jeter would split votes. But there's still another month of baseball left for either Yankee to separate himself from the other.

I'm not a big fan of giving the MVP to a player on a losing team, unless that player does something extraordinary throughout the course of the entire season. Mauer is having one of those year's. But if he falter's a bit and the Twins finish below .500 then he shouldn't get the award. Being the MVP means showing and playing big in big games and pressure-filled moments. How can a player on a team under .500 really find himself in such a situation?

[Jaded Green]

Right now Mauer would probably win, because Tex and Jeter would split votes. But there's still another month of baseball left for either Yankee to separate himself from the other.

I'm not a big fan of giving the MVP to a player on a losing team, unless that player does something extraordinary throughout the course of the entire season. Mauer is having one of those year's. But if he falter's a bit and the Twins finish below .500 then he shouldn't get the award. Being the MVP means showing and playing big in big games and pressure-filled moments. How can a player on a team under .500 really find himself in such a situation?

I agree, but if Mauer keeps this pace, he's going to have one of the best seasons ever, and he'll probably get the MVP for it.

[JohnnyHector]

Mark Teixiera has been more valuable to the Yankees than Mauer has been to the Twins this season. The Twins wont even sniff the Post Season this year.

Mark Teixiera's defense alone puts him over the top.

Your last statement is absurd when you consider that you are comparing two players who are both universally accepted as being good defensive players for their position, yet you are backing the horse that plays the far less impactful position on the field.

Texeira's defense this season, according to the statistic Ultimate Zone Rating (UZR), has been average at 1B. Now, regardless of one's opinion of the merit of UZR, you have to give some credence to the fact that it rates him lower due to having less lateral range than many other 1B. I'm not saying he isn't a good 1B, but he's not the hands-down best in the game that many claim he is. Besides, we're talking about defense at 1B here, the position that teams usually stick guys with big bats and little glove. Being better than a bunch of stiffs that play the same position as you shouldn't be a factor in determining MVP worthiness.

Now, let's look at Texeira's Home/Road splits, which are extreme:

Home - .308/.397/.634

Away - .263/.370/.482

Here are Mauer's:

Home - .401/.477/.689

Away - .361/.418/.592

Given that Texeira plays in a home park that is very favorable to left-handed power hitters, I think the Home/Road splits speak volumes about how much it has skewed his overall numbers.

Vote Mauer.

[Otter]

Your last statement is absurd when you consider that you are comparing two players who are both universally accepted as being good defensive players for their position, yet you are backing the horse that plays the far less impactful position on the field.

Texeira's defense this season, according to the statistic Ultimate Zone Rating (UZR), has been average at 1B. Now, regardless of one's opinion of the merit of UZR, you have to give some credence to the fact that it rates him lower due to having less lateral range than many other 1B. I'm not saying he isn't a good 1B, but he's not the hands-down best in the game that many claim he is. Besides, we're talking about defense at 1B here, the position that teams usually stick guys with big bats and little glove. Being better than a bunch of stiffs that play the same position as you shouldn't be a factor in determining MVP worthiness.

Now, let's look at Texeira's Home/Road splits, which are extreme:

Home - .308/.397/.634

Away - .263/.370/.482

Here are Mauer's:

Home - .401/.477/.689

Away - .361/.418/.592

Given that Texeira plays in a home park that is very favorable to left-handed power hitters, I think the Home/Road splits speak volumes about how much it has skewed his overall numbers.

Vote Mauer.

I don't know anything about UZR, but from what I have seen this year, Mark Teixeira is going to win a gold glove at first base.

[Barton]

Jeter should win over Mauer because it would be the same BS when Morneau won it over Jete a few years ago.

[JohnnyHector]

I don't know anything about UZR, but from what I have seen this year, Mark Teixeira is going to win a gold glove at first base.

UZR essentially measures how many balls a player at a given position gets to and turns into an out compared to an average player at that position. It relies on a large sample space, however, so numbers within a season are not always a good indicator. I only mentioned it, because the numbers suggest Texeira has been merely average at fielding ground balls this season, though his career numbers show him to be good.

What UZR does not factor in is a 1B making a scoop on a ball in the dirt or a nice jump to pull down a high throw and still record a putout. There was extensive analysis done on this and it was determined that the difference between the best and worst 1B at receiving throws only amounts to 3-4 runs over the course of an entire season.

My stance is really that defense at 1B is grossly overrated, at least when trying to gauge its relative importance to the other positions in the field.

[Vudu]

Your last statement is absurd when you consider that you are comparing two players who are both universally accepted as being good defensive players for their position, yet you are backing the horse that plays the far less impactful position on the field.

Texeira's defense this season, according to the statistic Ultimate Zone Rating (UZR), has been average at 1B. Now, regardless of one's opinion of the merit of UZR, you have to give some credence to the fact that it rates him lower due to having less lateral range than many other 1B. I'm not saying he isn't a good 1B, but he's not the hands-down best in the game that many claim he is. Besides, we're talking about defense at 1B here, the position that teams usually stick guys with big bats and little glove. Being better than a bunch of stiffs that play the same position as you shouldn't be a factor in determining MVP worthiness.

Now, let's look at Texeira's Home/Road splits, which are extreme:

Home - .308/.397/.634

Away - .263/.370/.482

Here are Mauer's:

Home - .401/.477/.689

Away - .361/.418/.592

Given that Texeira plays in a home park that is very favorable to left-handed power hitters, I think the Home/Road splits speak volumes about how much it has skewed his overall numbers.

Vote Mauer.

Dude, Mark Teixiera is the best 1b in the American League, regardless of what some UZR stat claims.

But good post nonetheless.

[Jbro22]

Jeter will never win MVP because its no surprise that he's awesome every year.

[JohnnyHector]

Dude, Mark Teixiera is the best 1b in the American League, regardless of what some UZR stat claims.

But good post nonetheless.

Even if he is the very best 1B in the AL, that's still worth less than a good defensive catcher IMO.

No comment on his Bronx-inflated statistics?

[Vudu]

Even if he is the very best 1B in the AL, that's still worth less than a good defensive catcher IMO.

No comment on his Bronx-inflated statistics?

I dont see what the ball park has to do with his ability @ first base.

Im not one of those morons that talk about "Yankee Stadium Homeruns" or whatever else. Yankee stadium is far from the most gimmicky park in the majors.

[The Troll]

It's Mauer. It's not even remotely close.

[The Troll]

It's Mauer. It's not even remotely close.

It's the Most Valuable Player award. Not the "Most Valuable Player on a Playoff Team" award.

[The Troll]

I meant to edit my post...not quote myself.

Son of a bitch.

[JohnnyHector]

I dont see what the ball park has to do with his ability @ first base.

Im not one of those morons that talk about "Yankee Stadium Homeruns" or whatever else. Yankee stadium is far from the most gimmicky park in the majors.

I'm talking about his offensive numbers being so far better at home than on the road, specifically his SLG, which is heavily influenced by hitting HR's into the rightfield stands at Yankee Stadium.

Even without considering that factor, Mauer has an OPS+ 50 points higher and has been superior offensively to Texeira in every facet this season. Add in that he's a better defensive player, by virtue of the fact that he is a plus defender at the most difficult position on the diamond, and it's not even close IMO.

The only thing Texeira has going for him is that he plays for the team with the best record in the league and Minnesota will likely miss finish below .500.

[Otter]

UZR essentially measures how many balls a player at a given position gets to and turns into an out compared to an average player at that position. It relies on a large sample space, however, so numbers within a season are not always a good indicator. I only mentioned it, because the numbers suggest Texeira has been merely average at fielding ground balls this season, though his career numbers show him to be good.

What UZR does not factor in is a 1B making a scoop on a ball in the dirt or a nice jump to pull down a high throw and still record a putout. There was extensive analysis done on this and it was determined that the difference between the best and worst 1B at receiving throws only amounts to 3-4 runs over the course of an entire season.

My stance is really that defense at 1B is grossly overrated, at least when trying to gauge its relative importance to the other positions in the field.

Thanks for the info on UZR. I hadn't heard of it until you mentioned it in your previous post.