here is what REAL police brutality looks like

[villain_the_foe]

And who is it that protects those rights and gives you the ability to excersize them? Perhaps a visit to the Congo or the slums of Mexico, or any number of countries existing without the rule of law or the people who enforce and uphold that societal priviledge, would change your perspective. you take for granted that the police are your enemy, without realizing that should you become dangerously ill, injured, threatened, attacked, or victimized in any way, you need only dial three numbers and someone will be on the way come hell or high water. The sense entitlement boggles the mind when it comes to police-bashing. You don't like the police or how they operate? consider the alternative. You feel the men and women of law enforcement should be better at what they do? Pay them more than 75G a year and you'll get better candidates willing to risk their lives for a paycheck. In the mean-time, try not to insult law enforcement professionals by lumping them all into one power-hungry, corrupt stereotype. Most officers have a genuine sense of duty and respect for the community. And many are taken from their loved ones--wives, husbands, children, parents--too soon while trying to serve their communities for mediocre pay and little appreciation.

Thats a good question. Their "God" given rights, I am the one who gives me the ability to excecise those rights....their my rights, and yours as well. Their not police given rights.

This is exactly what I mean, we generally dont know what our rights are. This is why when people argue with cops and say "you're violating" my rights nothing happens, because we dont know how to "claim" our rights.

Im not trying to be an agitator here, Im simply just saying that the majority of us think that police or "the law" gives us our "god given" rights.

Going to the Congo or Mexico would only reconfirm that our rights are being completely ignored by control freaks. Just because God given rights are put on paper doesnt mean that they disappear in another part of the world. And this doesnt mean that cops as human beings are bad, thats far from the contrary, however, they take orders do they not? We're no different than the people of the Congo or Mexico. Yes, you can dial three numbers and people will be flying to the rescue. Thats not the point of view that im expressing to you though, and its not always correct that the person getting 3 numbers called on them is a criminal. im talking about YOUR rights. Have you actually read the constitution and the bill of rights in its entirety? (I would actually like to hear that answer) Most cops havent even read it so how do I expect them to uphold my rights if they never read them? Its my responsibilty to exercise my rights as a person that will lose those rights if I dont know how to claim or excercise them.

This is why when I go into the train stations and they ask to check my bag I dont allow them to check my bad. People look at me like im "special" or something because I decided to walk to another train station if they dont let me pass. Its not that im any more special than you are, I just choose to exercise my right to privacy, and it would no longer be private if I showed you.

I did the same thing with the Census, while everyone "volunteered" to fill out ALL that information about themselves and their family I only stated the date and how may people were in my unit. You know why? If you read the constitution it clearly tells you that it is a constitutional law for the government to have a count of each unit for governmental development, thats it. I give them exactly whats constitutionally legal to provide, nothing more. Of course the Census lady looked at me like a clown, but that wont be the last time given that they only do what they're told and not whats needed by law.

If anyone would check what im saying then you would see how its your responsibility to exercise your rights, cuz their yours to claim.

[sirlancemehlot]

Thats a good question. Their "God" given rights, I am the one who gives me the ability to excecise those rights....their my rights, and yours as well. Their not police given rights.

This is exactly what I mean, we generally dont know what our rights are. This is why when people argue with cops and say "you're violating" my rights nothing happens, because we dont know how to "claim" our rights.

Im not trying to be an agitator here, Im simply just saying that the majority of us think that police or "the law" gives us our "god given" rights.

Going to the Congo or Mexico would only reconfirm that our rights are being completely ignored by control freaks. Just because God given rights are put on paper doesnt mean that they disappear in another part of the world. And this doesnt mean that cops as human beings are bad, thats far from the contrary, however, they take orders do they not? We're no different than the people of the Congo or Mexico. Yes, you can dial three numbers and people will be flying to the rescue. Thats not the point of view that im expressing to you though, and its not always correct that the person getting 3 numbers called on them is a criminal. im talking about YOUR rights. Have you actually read the constitution and the bill of rights in its entirety? (I would actually like to hear that answer) Most cops havent even read it so how do I expect them to uphold my rights if they never read them? Its my responsibilty to exercise my rights as a person that will lose those rights if I dont know how to claim or excercise them.

This is why when I go into the train stations and they ask to check my bag I dont allow them to check my bad. People look at me like im "special" or something because I decided to walk to another train station if they dont let me pass. Its not that im any more special than you are, I just choose to exercise my right to privacy, and it would no longer be private if I showed you.

I did the same thing with the Census, while everyone "volunteered" to fill out ALL that information about themselves and their family I only stated the date and how may people were in my unit. You know why? If you read the constitution it clearly tells you that it is a constitutional law for the government to have a count of each unit for governmental development, thats it. I give them exactly whats constitutionally legal to provide, nothing more. Of course the Census lady looked at me like a clown, but that wont be the last time given that they only do what they're told and not whats needed by law.

If anyone would check what im saying then you would see how its your responsibility to exercise your rights, cuz their yours to claim.

There are no such thing as god-given rights. That is absolutely naive. There are so many people who don't have the ability to speak their minds, walk the streets safely, etc. etc. It is society and the protection it affords that allow us to excersize our rights. The battered wife who calls the police to save her from being beaten to death has the right to ask for help and protection afforded her by the laws of our society. In third world nations, rape has been used as a form of punishment (and retrainng for lesbians, I kid you not). What protection has her god-given right not to be raped afforded her? Police are an integral part of our societal protection--our "rights" are written into the constitution and are upheld by our court system, our legal system and our law enorcement agents. This is simply fact, not opinion. Can they do a better job--well that is up for contention certainly. I for one appreciate and respect anyone that risks their lives in the service of others, and that includes police fire and military. I'm aware that I can't assume everyone feels the same way and I wouldn't be so arrogant as to call you wrong, when my experiences with law enforcement have likely differed from yours a great deal. You are entitled to your opinion. That is a God-given Right.

[Falcon63]

yes, obviously the allegations could be exaggerated/false but as it is written i doubt few would argue that it was an abuse of power.

Yeah, I don't believe it.

[flgreen]

There are no such thing as god-given rights. That is absolutely naive..

The Declaration of Independence seems to disagree

　

　

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,[71] that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just

[villain_the_foe]

There are no such thing as god-given rights. That is absolutely naive. There are so many people who don't have the ability to speak their minds, walk the streets safely, etc. etc. It is society and the protection it affords that allow us to excersize our rights. The battered wife who calls the police to save her from being beaten to death has the right to ask for help and protection afforded her by the laws of our society. In third world nations, rape has been used as a form of punishment (and retrainng for lesbians, I kid you not). What protection has her god-given right not to be raped afforded her? Police are an integral part of our societal protection--our "rights" are written into the constitution and are upheld by our court system, our legal system and our law enorcement agents. This is simply fact, not opinion. Can they do a better job--well that is up for contention certainly. I for one appreciate and respect anyone that risks their lives in the service of others, and that includes police fire and military. I'm aware that I can't assume everyone feels the same way and I wouldn't be so arrogant as to call you wrong, when my experiences with law enforcement have likely differed from yours a great deal. You are entitled to your opinion. That is a God-given Right.

As you can see from what I've highlighted...which one is it? Is it naive to say that one has god given rights or its it a god given right to have an opinion and nothing more? That sounds pretty contradictory to me.

Secondly, what is the constitution based on? The constitution is based on the declaration of independence. What is the declaration of independence based on? I'll give you a little piece "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"...so on and so forth. In otherwords, what was written is based on something that even if you burnt the paper that it was written on it wouldnt matter because these truths are self-evident by a higher power. Right, Reason and to be "Self-Governing".

Speaking your mind is simply the "free will" to do so. Thats a right that you have and it hurts no one. 95 percent of Jetnation has the right to call my opinions outrageous and the other 5 percent will write me a PM and tell me that they see where im coming from. All of that is the right of speaking your mind freely (God given). I dont want to get into the specifics of that because its unnecessary, one thing its not though is naive.

Society has never offered protection for "all". Society offers distinctive cultural and economic organization in which if you dont agree with then in what fashion does it protect you? This is why God given rights are paramount, because it applies way beyond the "right" to create societies and the "right" not to agree with the society put upon you at birth. As long as the truths that are self-evident are not being violated then there's no reason for society to feel that they must provide protection over something that they've done a horrible job at doing in the first place because its not governed by society...its a self-governed act. Just look at world history that should tell you. Perfect example, The battered wife who called the cops is still a "battered wife", the violation on her didnt NOT happen because we have a particular sociey here. There's battered women not only in this country but all over the world (except in my house...which is a self governed act) so whats your point?

You said "3rd world nations"- what does it mean to be a 3rd world nation? Let me provide that info. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World 3rd world has NOTHING to do with the way you used the term. Rape happens here in this very country. My God given right of opinion leads me to think that this world has a massive psychological and spirtual problem that Police and governments arent fixing because they cant in the fashion in which they are trying.

If thats not true then please, point me to the society thats doing it right and I'll glady move there. Better yet, please point me to a society that has ever done it right? Our world history has been an extremely violent one, and because we know nothing else we tend to attach ourselves to the only thing that we've ever known...accepting the lesser of two evils if you will.

I do appreciate that you werent arrogant to say that I was wrong, I do that sometimes and maybe I should learn from you. Maybe we do have some good point between us that could work, but at the end of the day the BIGGEST form of govenernment that should exist in this world is "self government". That is something that has been taken away from you no matter where you go on this planet. Its very easy to get it back though, just try.

[villain_the_foe]

The Declaration of Independence seems to disagree

　

　

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,[71] that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just

+1

You posted this while I was typing up my very long winded response lmao.

[sirlancemehlot]

The Declaration of Independence seems to disagree

　

　

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,[71] that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just

Ha! Awesome. you just proved my point. Unless you think God wrote the Declaration of Independence, I think we'll have to agree that this is a LEGAL document.

[villain_the_foe]

Ha! Awesome. you just proved my point. Unless you think God wrote the Declaration of Independence, I think we'll have to agree that this is a LEGAL document.

yeah, you just dont get it.

[sirlancemehlot]

yeah, you just dont get it.

I'm working and can't rebut--I get it just fine--but it'll ave to wait for now.

[villain_the_foe]

I'm working and can't rebut--I get it just fine--but it'll ave to wait for now.

I'll come back to read it.

Edit: and let me add this as well.

For the security and enjoyment by Man of his Divinely created rights, it follows implicitly that Man is endowed by his Creator not only with the right to be self-governing but also with the capacity to reason and, therefore, with the capacity to be self-governing. This is implicit in the philosophy proclaimed in the Declaration of Independence. Otherwise, Man's unalienable rights would be of little or no use or benefit to him. Faith in Man--in his capacity to be self-governing--is thus related to faith in God as his Creator, as the giver of these unalienable rights and this capacity.

[ZachEY]

I don't understand the reliance of God in this discussion.

The notion of God very well may be as man-made as the laws and the police department which upholds them.

[Sperm Edwards]

I don't understand the reliance of God in this discussion.

The notion of God very well may be as man-made as the laws and the police department which upholds them.

Thanks for going there. I'm sure this thread will improve now.

[villain_the_foe]

I don't understand the reliance of God in this discussion.

The notion of God very well may be as man-made as the laws and the police department which upholds them.

You've quoted Darwin before so I can see why you say what you say.

However, I was just referring to where the laws derived. I figure people cant have it both ways, possibly denouncing the exsitence of the creator, yet at the same time following laws which the police department upholds where in which it was derived.

[villain_the_foe]

Thanks for going there. I'm sure this thread will improve now.

My bad sperm.

Dont want to tank a thread.

[Sperm Edwards]

My bad sperm.

Dont want to tank a thread.

So you're saying it is good that I am policing this thread? lol

[villain_the_foe]

So you're saying it is good that I am policing this thread? lol

I totally understand that MAX is the grand master of this site and you're one of his officers. If I cant follow the rules I should open my own site.

My only problem is when when there's no opportunity for people to do the same in the real world. Thats when I buck the system.

[sirlancemehlot]

I'll come back to read it.

Edit: and let me add this as well.

For the security and enjoyment by Man of his Divinely created rights, it follows implicitly that Man is endowed by his Creator not only with the right to be self-governing but also with the capacity to reason and, therefore, with the capacity to be self-governing. This is implicit in the philosophy proclaimed in the Declaration of Independence. Otherwise, Man's unalienable rights would be of little or no use or benefit to him. Faith in Man--in his capacity to be self-governing--is thus related to faith in God as his Creator, as the giver of these unalienable rights and this capacity.

Alright i've got five minutes, here goes:

You asked earlier if I read the constitution. Yes I have. I'm a student of history and have read bboth the Constitution and the Declaration of Idependence. As such, i an tell you that the Constitution is not based on the Declaration, but is heavily influenced by the British Magna Carta. Earlier, I stated that both of these documents are man-made LEGAL documents and this is undeniable. This country is based on the rule of LAW, laws written into the US constitution which, in itself holds many contradictions. Some of which you quote as proof of God-given rights. I hold these documents to be proof that the rights therein are far from God-given, but are derived from men setting forth the rule of LAW for a new nation. #1. The mention of God in the Constitution which emphatically holds the separation of church and state as a basic tenet is a major contridiction. #2 The statement that these truths are self-evident--that all men are created equal, makes no mention of women and in fact does not outlaw the ownership of men ie: slavery. For fear of dragging this into a line by line discussion of the Nations legal documents including the Bill of Rights, I'll first state that this discussion has evolved into a philisophical one concerning what is a ":right" and what is not. I stated that there is not God-given right and essentially that holds true to my argument with the exception that one can always think freely whether or not one is afforded the ability to act freely. Jean Paul sartre's statement "I think therefore i am" is the basis of the only real right we have. For instance, in China, one has the right to a finite number of children. Having more than the alotment is bad for the country as a whole considering their booming poulation and the inability to sustain it. In America, we would never stand for such a law. To state that we have the right to self-rule is false, as ideally, we all would be able to operate societally if there were no violence, abuse, theft, etc. however the law affords the decent protections. Withoutn these protections, our right to self rule would be an excersize in futility, as a "right" that cannot be exceersized ceases to be right. Those that would victimize would be the only ones free to act their will as those who act properly would be limited in their ability to live in comfort and freeedom from those who would abuse them.

[ZachEY]

So you're saying it is good that I am policing this thread? lol

It seems the laws of Max, who also may or may not be real, might not be enough to keep us out of trouble. Hence, your existence.

[villain_the_foe]

It seems the laws of Max, who also may or may not be real, might not be enough to keep us out of trouble. Hence, your existence.

lol

You're a funny dude.

[Sperm Edwards]

It seems the laws of Max, who also may or may not be real, might not be enough to keep us out of trouble. Hence, your existence.

I pee therefore I am.

[villain_the_foe]

Alright i've got five minutes, here goes:

You asked earlier if I read the constitution. Yes I have. I'm a student of history and have read bboth the Constitution and the Declaration of Idependence. As such, i an tell you that the Constitution is not based on the Declaration, but is heavily influenced by the British Magna Carta. Earlier, I stated that both of these documents are man-made LEGAL documents and this is undeniable. This country is based on the rule of LAW, laws written into the US constitution which, in itself holds many contradictions. Some of which you quote as proof of God-given rights. I hold these documents to be proof that the rights therein are far from God-given, but are derived from men setting forth the rule of LAW for a new nation. #1. The mention of God in the Constitution which emphatically holds the separation of church and state as a basic tenet is a major contridiction. #2 The statement that these truths are self-evident--that all men are created equal, makes no mention of women and in fact does not outlaw the ownership of men ie: slavery. For fear of dragging this into a line by line discussion of the Nations legal documents including the Bill of Rights, I'll first state that this discussion has evolved into a philisophical one concerning what is a ":right" and what is not. I stated that there is not God-given right and essentially that holds true to my argument with the exception that one can always think freely whether or not one is afforded the ability to act freely. Jean Paul sartre's statement "I think therefore i am" is the basis of the only real right we have. For instance, in China, one has the right to a finite number of children. Having more than the alotment is bad for the country as a whole considering their booming poulation and the inability to sustain it. In America, we would never stand for such a law. To state that we have the right to self-rule is false, as ideally, we all would be able to operate societally if there were no violence, abuse, theft, etc. however the law affords the decent protections. Withoutn these protections, our right to self rule would be an excersize in futility, as a "right" that cannot be exceersized ceases to be right. Those that would victimize would be the only ones free to act their will as those who act properly would be limited in their ability to live in comfort and freeedom from those who would abuse them.

Sorry, cant talk about the subject in a fashion that would get my point across.

However you do have a very strong point on the magna carta, though there's many other elements that we cant get into.

The rule of law society is based on is ignoring the paramount law. The law to co-exist through the un-alien-able rights. That word is very important to understand what im saying.

[Thor99]

Two more cops abusing their power-

Two Tampa police officers, both 31, were killed early Tuesday morning while attempting to arrest a man during a traffic stop at 50th St. and E 23rd Ave.

Jeff Kocab, whose wife is nine months pregnant, was shot to death by a Jacksonville man wanted on an outstanding warrant, reports the St. Petersburg Times. Dave Curtis, a father of four, was also shot. His family took him off life support once doctors were able to preserve his organs.

The newspaper reports the shooting suspect was a passenger in the 1994 red Toyota Camry. He fled on foot, police said, while the woman driver took off.

10 Connects reports Tampa Police may have found the Camry and have named Dontae Rashawn Morris and Cortnee Nicole Brantley as "persons of interest."

[sirlancemehlot]

that makes 91 dead police officers in less than six months. RIP. My heart goes out the five children who will grow up fatherless.

[villain_the_foe]

Two more cops abusing their power-

And a cop making an honest days pay...at the rate of $1,000,000.

sxfushhkpqY

[villain_the_foe]

that makes 91 dead police officers in less than six months. RIP. My heart goes out the five children who will grow up fatherless.

+1

[Thor99]

And a cop making an honest days pay...at the rate of $1,000,000.

sxfushhkpqY

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/64031/1578874

We can do this all day.

[Jetsfan80]

I don't understand the reliance of God in this discussion.

The notion of God very well may be as man-made as the laws and the police department which upholds them.

95 % of the world's population believes in a supreme being. God is relevant in ANY discussion, although of course we have rules here on JetNation and having such discussions tends to lead down a path that those rules are meant to prevent. And I respectfully disagree with your second statement.

[villain_the_foe]

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/64031/1578874

We can do this all day.

Unfortunately we could. Thats the problem.

oUkiyBVytRQ

[villain_the_foe]

This is a damn shame.

6C_BGSak4pA

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

that makes 91 dead police officers in less than six months. RIP. My heart goes out the five children who will grow up fatherless.[/QUOTE]

No question about it.

I wonder, is this type of thing spiking, or do we just hear about it and see it more in the YouTube, instant news era?

[ZachEY]

95 % of the world's population believes in a supreme being. God is relevant in ANY discussion, although of course we have rules here on JetNation and having such discussions tends to lead down a path that those rules are meant to prevent. And I respectfully disagree with your second statement.

Here's where I'd make some comment about Zeus or the Tooth Fairy, or how I believe that alligators are real too, but they shouldn't be relied on in this discussion, but that wouldn't be allowed either.