Jets unveil Ring of Honor

[JiFtheOracle]

Getting the most carries does not, by definition, make someone the best player. 5 of his 8 seasons with the Jets at or below the league average in ypc despite all the good OL's he played behind. And no one outside NYJ fans considered him the best RB in football in any NFL season. Yet each of his two megadeals with the Jets had (at the time) made him the highest paid RB in football history.

He may have had the highest total yards and a decidedly long career for a RB, but to say that Curtis Martin was the best player the Jets have ever had at any position is ridiculous. He was a solid player for a long time but was hardly the playmaker or game-changer someone called the best at anything should be. Particularly against the best opponents that separate the great ones from the very good ones.

You have one game the Jets MUST win against a great rush defense. You're really going to desire that the Jets RB is Curtis Martin? Most likely outcome = 15-20 carries for 50-60 yards (with 20+ coming on a few 3rd and long draw plays against 6-DB defenses where we still punt anyway).

You deny that he ever was? He reminded me of Cal Ripken and his most-selfish of all sports records. I'm injured. I'm not helping as much as someone who isn't injured. But I'm playing anyway because my fool of a coach lets me dictate my own playing time. My streak is more important than my team's wins.

He'll get into the HOF and if guys like Art Monk are in you can hardly keep Curtis Martin out. But he wasn't a super-great RB or in the same class of player as Brown or Campbell or Simpson or others cut from that cloth simply because he finished his career with more carries than they did.

Yep. He's completely overrated, horrible player, who was only concerned about his records and not the team.

[MadBacker Prime]

1 ring to rule them all??

[Falcon63]

Getting the most carries does not, by definition, make someone the best player. 5 of his 8 seasons with the Jets at or below the league average in ypc despite all the good OL's he played behind. And no one outside NYJ fans considered him the best RB in football in any NFL season. Yet each of his two megadeals with the Jets had (at the time) made him the highest paid RB in football history.

He may have had the highest total yards and a decidedly long career for a RB, but to say that Curtis Martin was the best player the Jets have ever had at any position is ridiculous. He was a solid player for a long time but was hardly the playmaker or game-changer someone called the best at anything should be. Particularly against the best opponents that separate the great ones from the very good ones.

You have one game the Jets MUST win against a great rush defense. You're really going to desire that the Jets RB is Curtis Martin? Most likely outcome = 15-20 carries for 50-60 yards (with 20+ coming on a few 3rd and long draw plays against 6-DB defenses where we still punt anyway).

You deny that he ever was? He reminded me of Cal Ripken and his most-selfish of all sports records. I'm injured. I'm not helping as much as someone who isn't injured. But I'm playing anyway because my fool of a coach lets me dictate my own playing time. My streak is more important than my team's wins.

He'll get into the HOF and if guys like Art Monk are in you can hardly keep Curtis Martin out. But he wasn't a super-great RB or in the same class of player as Brown or Campbell or Simpson or others cut from that cloth simply because he finished his career with more carries than they did.

When did I ever mention carries? And actually, carries DO matter. Martin was a workhorse who could be used over and over and over. Obviously you know nothing about Martin off the field if you think he's selfish. This guy always talks about the team in interviews, and he does A LOT of charity work in Pittsburgh. Also, who could you ever say was a better Jets player? Klecko, maybe, but Namath sucked in my opinion. Winning a SuperBowl does not make you one of the best all time. It's a TEAM sport.

EDIT: And this post is more evidence that we need negative rep back!

[SMC]

Those 6 make perfect sense to be the first. We can talk about Toon, Chrebet, Gas, etc. but nothing precludes them from being inducted later on.

[SMC]

He'll get into the HOF and if guys like Art Monk are in you can hardly keep Curtis Martin out. But he wasn't a super-great RB or in the same class of player as Brown or Campbell or Simpson or others cut from that cloth simply because he finished his career with more carries than they did.

That wouldn't be accurate because Monk got inducted in his 7th year of HOF eligibility.

Martin will likely get in in his 1st year of HOF eligibility.

Regardless of your Martin-hating stance, he deserves to be one of the 1st 6 inducted into the Jets ROH. Based on their careers I don't believe there's anyone else you can put ahead of him.

[#27TheDominator]

Yep. He's completely overrated, horrible player, who was only concerned about his records and not the team.

Martin is closer to the above than Namath was to sucking.

[Matt39]

Honoring Martin is a good idea. The fanbase for the most part loves him, he was the consumate pro, good face for the organization.

But I think anyone who watched him will tell you he wasnt an all time great back.

[JiFtheOracle]

Martin is closer to the above than Namath was to sucking.

Never saw Namath play. But I got to watch Curtis throughout his career and the guy was damn good. No he's not a top 10 player at his position, maybe never the best in the league at a certain time...but he was reliable and consistent and helped the team turn the corner from an era of pure doodoo. I've heard numerous running backs, players, coaches, etc say Curtis was an all time great and one of the best 5 yard runners the league has ever seen. Believe it or not, players like that help eat clock, move the chains, and win games. Not the glitz and glamor that everyone loves in a RB...but just damn good.

There's a lot the Curtis did that haters like you will never recognize because you dont care to see the good that Curtis brought to this team. But his efforts have been rewarded by the Jets and soon his efforts will be rewarded with the highest esteem by the league.

[#27TheDominator]

Never saw Namath play. But I got to watch Curtis throughout his career and the guy was damn good. No he's not a top 10 player at his position, maybe never the best in the league at a certain time...but he was reliable and consistent and helped the team turn the corner from an era of pure doodoo. I've heard numerous running backs, players, coaches, etc say Curtis was an all time great and one of the best 5 yard runners the league has ever seen. Believe it or not, players like that help eat clock, move the chains, and win games. Not the glitz and glamor that everyone loves in a RB...but just damn good.

There's a lot the Curtis did that haters like you will never recognize because you dont care to see the good that Curtis brought to this team. But his efforts have been rewarded by the Jets and soon his efforts will be rewarded with the highest esteem by the league.

IWhy do you think I am a Curtis hater? Because I know that Namath didn't suck? He certainly belongs in that ring of honor and he probably belongs in the HOF. The only thing I would argue is what ballot he should go in. He was a very good back that had a great number of very good seasons. As a career I'd be happier to have him than the vast majority of backs. I'm happy that he was a Jet though I wish the coaches and FO had been more realistic and not overused him when they had another good back to spell him and didn't give him a contract that was a complete albatross.

Martin was not an all time great back. That is where I draw the line. OJ, Payton, Sanders, Campbell were all considerably better and I doubt people that saw them play would argue that fact.

Namath did not suck. You could watch him throw the ball in a parking lot and know that.

[JiFtheOracle]

IWhy do you think I am a Curtis hater? Because I know that Namath didn't suck? He certainly belongs in that ring of honor and he probably belongs in the HOF. The only thing I would argue is what ballot he should go in. He was a very good back that had a great number of very good seasons. As a career I'd be happier to have him than the vast majority of backs. I'm happy that he was a Jet though I wish the coaches and FO had been more realistic and not overused him when they had another good back to spell him and didn't give him a contract that was a complete albatross.

Martin was not an all time great back. That is where I draw the line. OJ, Payton, Sanders, Campbell were all considerably better and I doubt people that saw them play would argue that fact.

Namath did not suck. You could watch him throw the ball in a parking lot and know that.

Your post implied the same hatred I've been seeing on these boards for years. I dont have an opinion on Namath...I never saw him, my father says he's the best he's ever seen and was like nobody else at the time. Thats enough for me and why I've never claimed Namath sucks.

I've never seen anyone compare Curtis to those players you've mentioned mostly because he doesnt but that doesnt mean he wasnt an all time great.

Quite frankly, this debate bores me. There are too many people with an agenda against Curtis for a thousand different reasons that I just dont care enough to argue because honestly most of the time they are pretty stupid rationals that none of us can confirm or deny.

[#27TheDominator]

Your post implied the same hatred I've been seeing on these boards for years. I dont have an opinion on Namath...I never saw him, my father says he's the best he's ever seen and was like nobody else at the time. Thats enough for me and why I've never claimed Namath sucks.

I've never seen anyone compare Curtis to those players you've mentioned mostly because he doesnt but that doesnt mean he wasnt an all time great.

Quite frankly, this debate bores me. There are too many people with an agenda against Curtis for a thousand different reasons that I just dont care enough to argue because honestly most of the time they are pretty stupid rationals that none of us can confirm or deny.

I don't imply hatred. I wear it on my ****ing sleeve. If I hated him it would have been clearly stated in a profanity laced opening sentence to my post.

The lingering "hatred" you see comes from those of us that didn't like the contract and the way that it hurt the team going forward, the failure to properly use Jordan and others to spell Martin when he was tired or hurt and debating the matter with those that want to move the guy several steps above what we see as his place in history.

The post you replied to was referencing the Falcon's post saying that in his opinion (that of a child that never saw Namath play) 'Namath sucked'. I would imagine that would rate more of the negative rep he was calling for than any Curtis debate.

[JoeWillie]

When did I ever mention carries? And actually, carries DO matter. Martin was a workhorse who could be used over and over and over. Obviously you know nothing about Martin off the field if you think he's selfish. This guy always talks about the team in interviews, and he does A LOT of charity work in Pittsburgh. Also, who could you ever say was a better Jets player? Klecko, maybe, but Namath sucked in my opinion. Winning a SuperBowl does not make you one of the best all time. It's a TEAM sport.

EDIT: And this post is more evidence that we need negative rep back!

LOL.

This is where you lose me, bro'.

[jgb]

joe namath only threw the first 4000 yard season in history and literally changed the position and the sport -- you might argue that he also invented the athlete as a brand. i suspect that his detractors mostly dislike him for that last point because they do not like the commercial aspect of the sport.

[Falcon63]

joe namath only threw the first 4000 yard season in history and literally changed the position and the sport -- you might argue that he also invented the athlete as a brand. i suspect that his detractors mostly dislike him for that last point because they do not like the commercial aspect of the sport.

I don't dislike that part of the sports because it's NOT part of the sport. Yes, he changed the league, but that does not make him a great quarterback. When it comes to the Hall of Fame, which has NOTHING to do with TEAM accomplishments (so throw out SB III), individual statistics don't lie.

Just 50.1% completed passes in his career

47 more career INTs than TDs

A 65.5 career QB rating

Losing record as a starting QB through his career

Only won 2 playoff games

Only made 1 PRO BOWL

Was a self-absorbed drunk who only cared what Hollywood thought

Now here's Martin's credentials:

4th All-Time leading rusher

3rd All-Time leader in carries (workhorse)

5 Pro Bowls

7th All-Time in yards from scrimmage

19th All-Time with 100 rushing/receiving TDs

1995 NFL Rookie of the Year

Oldest player to win a rushing title (2004)

4 yards per carry over his career

Only person other than Barry Sanders to get 1,000 rushing yards in each of their first 10 years in the league (on pace to break it before he was hurt)

Doesn't go around drunk hitting on reporters

Does charity work to help kids in his old neighborhood in Pittsburgh

I'll take Martin

[jgb]

I don't dislike that part of the sports because it's NOT part of the sport. Yes, he changed the league, but that does not make him a great quarterback. When it comes to the Hall of Fame, which has NOTHING to do with TEAM accomplishments (so throw out SB III), individual statistics don't lie.

Just 50.1% completed passes in his career

47 more career INTs than TDs

A 65.5 career QB rating

Losing record as a starting QB through his career

Only won 2 playoff games

Only made 1 PRO BOWL

Was a self-absorbed drunk who only cared what Hollywood thought

Now here's Martin's credentials:

4th All-Time leading rusher

3rd All-Time leader in carries (workhorse)

5 Pro Bowls

7th All-Time in yards from scrimmage

19th All-Time with 100 rushing/receiving TDs

1995 NFL Rookie of the Year

Oldest player to win a rushing title (2004)

4 yards per carry over his career

Only person other than Barry Sanders to get 1,000 rushing yards in each of their first 10 years in the league (on pace to break it before he was hurt)

Doesn't go around drunk hitting on reporters

Does charity work to help kids in his old neighborhood in Pittsburgh

I'll take Martin

i think they both should be in. but you are kidding yourself if you don't think getting a ring influences HOF voters.

[JohnnyHector]

I don't dislike that part of the sports because it's NOT part of the sport. Yes, he changed the league, but that does not make him a great quarterback. When it comes to the Hall of Fame, which has NOTHING to do with TEAM accomplishments (so throw out SB III), individual statistics don't lie.

Just 50.1% completed passes in his career

47 more career INTs than TDs

A 65.5 career QB rating

Losing record as a starting QB through his career

Only won 2 playoff games

Only made 1 PRO BOWL

Was a self-absorbed drunk who only cared what Hollywood thought

Now here's Martin's credentials:

4th All-Time leading rusher

3rd All-Time leader in carries (workhorse)

5 Pro Bowls

7th All-Time in yards from scrimmage

19th All-Time with 100 rushing/receiving TDs

1995 NFL Rookie of the Year

Oldest player to win a rushing title (2004)

4 yards per carry over his career

Only person other than Barry Sanders to get 1,000 rushing yards in each of their first 10 years in the league (on pace to break it before he was hurt)

Doesn't go around drunk hitting on reporters

Does charity work to help kids in his old neighborhood in Pittsburgh

I'll take Martin

WtNHuqHWefU

[rowonejetfan]

Since Mark Gastineau is homeless they should induct him into the ring or at least hire him as an usher.

Wonder if Giants will do the same, in 7-10 years LT can be inducted.

[Biggs]

How can you have a ring of fame without the core 6?

Namath,

Hill

Philbin

Sauer

Maynard

Snell

Philbin and Sauer both had dominating years in our teams only SB winning season. Sauer actually made all pro over Maynard that year. Snell, Sauer and Hill dominated in the SB.

[MadBacker Prime]

How can you have a ring of fame without the core 6?

Namath,

Hill

Philbin

Sauer

Maynard

Snell

Philbin and Sauer both had dominating years in our teams only SB winning season. Sauer actually made all pro over Maynard that year. Snell, Sauer and Hill dominated in the SB.

Agreed, without Sauer the Jets might not win SB III -8 receptions for 133 yards-

[Biggs]

Agreed, without Sauer the Jets might not win SB III -8 receptions for 133 yards-

These are never an easy thing to do. I can see the argument for a ton of players. Marvin Powell had one of the most consistently good players for his Jets career as anyone to wear the Uniform easily as good as Curtis was for the Jets during his Jets career. Mawae might have been the best or second best player in the league at a key positon for as long as any Jets player.

We all have our personal favorites. As a fan that goes back to the mid 60's, I have seen some of our greatest players play a very short but significant part in this teams development.

Personally I always felt All Toon and Namath were the most gifted talents to play for the team. Philbin and Sauer were very close seconds to those two and both had huge seasons when it counted.

Revis if he continues to play for the Jets and doesn't get hurt is clearly one of the best to ever wear the uniform.

[MadBacker Prime]

These are never an easy thing to do. I can see the argument for a ton of players. Marvin Powell had one of the most consistently good players for his Jets career as anyone to wear the Uniform easily as good as Curtis was for the Jets during his Jets career. Mawae might have been the best or second best player in the league at a key positon for as long as any Jets player.

We all have our personal favorites. As a fan that goes back to the mid 60's, I have seen some of our greatest players play a very short but significant part in this teams development.

Personally I always felt All Toon and Namath were the most gifted talents to play for the team. Philbin and Sauer were very close seconds to those two and both had huge seasons when it counted.

Revis if he continues to play for the Jets and doesn't get hurt is clearly one of the best to ever wear the uniform.

That right there is why I think jet fans are so emotionally invested in the Revis situation. We realize he could go down as one of the best and we are witnessing it on a weekly basis. When that's considered fans just want the drama to be done with and to have the certainty that he will be a jet for the next 7-8 years.

[Larz]

Getting the most carries does not, by definition, make someone the best player. 5 of his 8 seasons with the Jets at or below the league average in ypc despite all the good OL's he played behind. And no one outside NYJ fans considered him the best RB in football in any NFL season. Yet each of his two megadeals with the Jets had (at the time) made him the highest paid RB in football history.

He may have had the highest total yards and a decidedly long career for a RB, but to say that Curtis Martin was the best player the Jets have ever had at any position is ridiculous. He was a solid player for a long time but was hardly the playmaker or game-changer someone called the best at anything should be. Particularly against the best opponents that separate the great ones from the very good ones.

You have one game the Jets MUST win against a great rush defense. You're really going to desire that the Jets RB is Curtis Martin? Most likely outcome = 15-20 carries for 50-60 yards (with 20+ coming on a few 3rd and long draw plays against 6-DB defenses where we still punt anyway).

You deny that he ever was? He reminded me of Cal Ripken and his most-selfish of all sports records. I'm injured. I'm not helping as much as someone who isn't injured. But I'm playing anyway because my fool of a coach lets me dictate my own playing time. My streak is more important than my team's wins.

He'll get into the HOF and if guys like Art Monk are in you can hardly keep Curtis Martin out. But he wasn't a super-great RB or in the same class of player as Brown or Campbell or Simpson or others cut from that cloth simply because he finished his career with more carries than they did.

ok

name the guys who should go in the ring on honor in his place

[Sperm Edwards]

Yep. He's completely overrated, horrible player, who was only concerned about his records and not the team.

I never said he was horrible or only concerned about his numbers.

When did I ever mention carries? And actually, carries DO matter. Martin was a workhorse who could be used over and over and over. Obviously you know nothing about Martin off the field if you think he's selfish. This guy always talks about the team in interviews, and he does A LOT of charity work in Pittsburgh. Also, who could you ever say was a better Jets player? Klecko, maybe, but Namath sucked in my opinion. Winning a SuperBowl does not make you one of the best all time. It's a TEAM sport.

EDIT: And this post is more evidence that we need negative rep back!

Clearly I know a hell of a lot more about Martin than you do. Every year, it seemed, he'd make his pre-season announcement for his goal for the year. Instead of "superbowl" we were treated to interviews revealing goals of "1500 yards" or "2000 yards" from Mr. Selfless. And talk is cheap anyway. What he displayed is that he felt his carries were more important than anything. Even when he had two hideous sprained ankles for like a month and the season slowly slipping away. His precious carries were all-important no matter how much his horrible play hurt the team.

And the "Namath sucked" part of your post says plenty about your evaluations of what constitutes greatness.

That wouldn't be accurate because Monk got inducted in his 7th year of HOF eligibility.

Martin will likely get in in his 1st year of HOF eligibility.

Regardless of your Martin-hating stance, he deserves to be one of the 1st 6 inducted into the Jets ROH. Based on their careers I don't believe there's anyone else you can put ahead of him.

I give him a 50/50 chance on first-year HOF entry. He has the career totals to get in but was never, ever that "incredible" RB that you'd think of when you think HOF and the writers who vote know it. He'll get in because players like Monk are in. And if you're going to allow Monk, it makes no sense to deny Martin.

Just by looking at the first website I'm checking, also eligible that same year:

- Marshall Faulk

- Jerome Bettis (who I also classify in the never "un-freaking-real" category of RB's)

- Willie Roaf

- Deion Sanders

Beating out any of Faulk and Roaf and Sanders will be tough.

I don't hate Martin. I hated that he ate up so much cap room that in years we were one player away that money went to make this selfless player the highest paid RB in the history of football even though he was never thought of among the league's most dangerous despite all the solid OL's he got to run behind.

joe namath only threw the first 4000 yard season in history and literally changed the position and the sport -- you might argue that he also invented the athlete as a brand. i suspect that his detractors mostly dislike him for that last point because they do not like the commercial aspect of the sport.

It was 12 years before the next person accomplished that feat.

[Larz]

I never said he was horrible

I don't hate Martin.

so doe he belong in the ring ?

[Sperm Edwards]

so doe he belong in the ring ?

I can just hear Martin now..."One ring to fool them all."

Just kidding.

Seriously, though. While he's not the Jets RB I would choose for a game or a season or short window, it would be silly to not include him.

I only said he was not the best player the Jets ever had.

[Larz]

I can just hear Martin now..."One ring to fool them all."

Just kidding.

Seriously, though. While he's not the Jets RB I would choose for a game or a season or short window, it would be silly to not include him.

I only said he was not the best player the Jets ever had.

which begs the question......

[Falcon63]

WtNHuqHWefU

Numbers don't lie. Show me your analysis, Einstein. I'm a numbers type of person when it comes to the HoF. It doesn't matter what he did for football, the truth is, he had horrible numbers for a supposed "great" player. Prove me otherwise.

Am I the only non-biased Jets fan on this board?

[LionelRichie]

ok

name the guys who should go in the ring on honor in his place

You can't have a Jets ring of honor without Don Boyd Odegard.

Seriously, Martin definitely belongs in the ring of honor and the NFL Hall of Fame. There is no hate for Martin the player, the hate is for the $45M cap crippling contract the Jets gave to a 30 year old RB.

There is also still resentment for the way Herm refused to give a younger, fresher Jordan more carries when he was clearly more effective - especially against the Steelers in the Playoff game.

[Larz]

Numbers don't lie. Show me your analysis, Einstein. I'm a numbers type of person when it comes to the HoF. It doesn't matter what he did for football, the truth is, he had horrible numbers for a supposed "great" player. Prove me otherwise.

Am I the only non-biased Jets fan on this board?

as I suggested to irish jet, read mark kriegels biography of joe

it doesn't pull any punches, he talks about the drinking, the gambling, the FBI file on him, everything

the game was a little different back then, and the AFL was competing with the nfl for back pages and ticket sales, so the AFL threw downfield a lot as a result

it was show business

when joe was the QB at alabama, he called his own plays. sometimes he would call 8 passes in a game just to get the win

werblin changed him, marketed him as a star (he was a hollywood agent) and convinced him to make joe the focus, to pass pass pass and to go deep

if namath went to the NFL, to the colts or giants, his stats would be very different

[JoeWillie]

Numbers don't lie. Show me your analysis, Einstein. I'm a numbers type of person when it comes to the HoF. It doesn't matter what he did for football, the truth is, he had horrible numbers for a supposed "great" player. Prove me otherwise.

Am I the only non-biased Jets fan on this board?

No just one of the younger ones.

When you say you are "a numbers person when it comes to the HOF", there in lies the flaw of your evaluation process.

I'm willing to bet you never saw Namath play live, so for you to make comment that a player you never saw play "sucked", purely based on evaluating statistics kills your argument and your credibility about the player.

But put that aside for a second...

If football legends like Vince Lombardi, Paul Brown, Don Shula, John Madden, Bill Walsh, Al Davis, Bear Bryant, Sid Gilman, Dan Fouts, Roger Staubach, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, and Fran Tarkenton all agree that Joe Namath is one of the best quarterbacks to ever play, and each of them have said that, then why in the world wouldn't you take their word for it. Do you know more about football than those guys?

I'm not trying to insult you, as many younger fans who now grow up in an era of sports where leagues do what they can to increase offense, also tend to look at statistics to compare players they've seen to players who played before they were born.

But that is a flawed exercise, as the game of football in the 50's, 60's, and 70's was a much, much, MUCH differently played game than the offensive game of the 80's and beyond. You can't compare players, especially QB's of those two eras, fairly. It's much easier to play the position and compile gaudy stats in today's game and if you don't acknowledge that, then you ain't paying attention.

Both Chad Pennington and Daunte Culpepper have higher career passer ratings than Johnny Unitas, Dan Marino, Roger Staubach, Bart Starr, Dan Fouts, Brett Favre, Troy Aikman, John Elway, and Joe Namath, but you'd have to be out of your friggin' mind if you think either of them are better quarterbacks than ANY of the quarterbacks behind them in the stats column.

Emmitt Smith and Curtis Martin both outgained Jim Brown in their careers by 6,000 and 2,000 yards respectively, so looking at stats, you might imply they were better players. But if you think either of those guys were as good as Jim Brown, then I would surmise that you never saw Jim Brown play, because most "football people" will tell you that neither Smith nor Martin could carry Jim Brown's jock strap.

Listen, you make some good points about C-Mart. I never said he didn't belong in the HOF. I think he does. I only said I didn't think he was the greatest Jet player of all-time and if you saw Joe Namath play, you would understand why.

If you could go back in time, say into the decade of the 80's, and you did a poll at that time as to who the best QB in the league was, you would have gotten a couple of different answers. Half would have said Marino, and half would have said Montana.

If you did the same thing in the 90's, you would have gotten a variety of different answers. Some would have said Favre, some would have said Elway, some would have said Aikman, and Steve Young and Jim Kelly may have even gotten some votes.

In the 2000's, you got Manning and Brady.

But in the late 60's and early 70's, for about a 5 to 6 year stretch from 1967 to 1972 when he was in his prime, Namath was widely acknowledged by most people in and out of the game as not only the best quarterback in football at THAT time, but also the sport's most exciting player, even with the injuries that prevented him from playing a couple of full seasons in that time span. And anyone who was around at that time watching football knows what I'm talking about.

It's kind of funny ... if you never saw either Fran Tarkenton or Joe Namath play, you could look back on their career stats, and surmize that Fran Tarkenton was immeasurably better than Namath. In fact, many people who never saw either play, do.

However, if you ask anybody who was alive and saw each of those players play during that period, and asked them during THAT period who was better, 9 out of 10 people would have take Namath over Tarkenton hands down. Even friends of mine who were huge Giants fans at the time acknowledged Namath was much better.

It's funny how analyzing statistics years later can cause people to have a totally different perspective than what was the ACTUAL perception at the time. You're starting to see it now with Marino and how his career is being perceived retrospectively because he never won a Super Bowl.

I don't expect the younger folks on this board to understand what I'm talking about, but anybody who was alive and followed football in the late 60's and early '70's knows what I'm talking about.

And 20 years from now when they change the rules again, and the "hotshot QB" of 2030 throws for 7,000 yards in a season, the same folks who are arguing AGAINST how good Namath was will be the guys arguing FOR Manning, Brady, or Montana.

It's a natural cycle.

Understand this ... if Joe Namath wasn't the great player that he was, he would NEVER have become the celebrity he became, and it wasn't just the Super Bowl win. Namath was a highly celebrated player even before the Jets became champs. Remember, he did sign what at the time was the richest rookie contract in all of sports in 1965.

As John Madden once said, "If he couldn't do what he did on the football field, the way he did it, none of that other "off the field" stuff would have mattered. No one would have cared".

So instead of fighting a point that you are not qualified to fight (since you never saw Namath take a snap live), why wouldn't you try to learn why the greatest football minds in history disagree with your assessment of him.

Could it be that statistics don't tell the entire story?

[Falcon63]

as I suggested to irish jet, read mark kriegels biography of joe

it doesn't pull any punches, he talks about the drinking, the gambling, the FBI file on him, everything

the game was a little different back then, and the AFL was competing with the nfl for back pages and ticket sales, so the AFL threw downfield a lot as a result

it was show business

when joe was the QB at alabama, he called his own plays. sometimes he would call 8 passes in a game just to get the win

werblin changed him, marketed him as a star (he was a hollywood agent) and convinced him to make joe the focus, to pass pass pass and to go deep

if namath went to the NFL, to the colts or giants, his stats would be very different

First of all, great post JoeWillie. You helped me understand your point a lot better. I'm pretty stubborn, though, and still stand by my assertion. As for this post that I quoted, AFL and college have NOTHING to do with the NFL HoF.

[Sperm Edwards]

Exactly. I honestly think Curtis was the best player to ever play for the Jets. And unlike the egotistical Joe Namath, Martin never talked trash or paraded around with the media. He is one of the most classiest players ever, and I hope that when he finally buys his NFL team, that it's the Jets.

See, I won't lie to people. I'm not a pro athlete, currently I think I'm just an above-average player, and I think I'll most likely go DII or JUCO, and hopefully transfer to D1 after two years.In all honesty, I want to see if there really ARE pro athletes here, just they need PROOF.

Hang on -- I just saw from the athlete thread that you're in high school?

As in you're 17 or 18 years old now, in 2010?

As in you were wearing diapers when Curtis Martin started his career and like 5 or 6 when the Jets acquired him?

As in you never followed the sport before the existence and popularity of fantasy football, where the best and most valuable players are the ones who end up with the most attempts?

As in you never saw the game before touching a fingernail on a WR constituted pass interference as it does today?

I understand now why you think he was the best player the Jets ever had. I'm sorry I argued with you on this subject.

[124]

Finally Curtis getting some respect. Very happy to see this happen. I'm pumped for him.

Now it's time to retire #28.

[Sperm Edwards]

Finally Curtis getting some respect. Very happy to see this happen. I'm pumped for him.

Now it's time to retire #28.

So you're suggesting the organization never give Curtis Martin any respect before?

[Falcon63]

Hang on -- I just saw from the athlete thread that you're in high school?

As in you're 17 or 18 years old now, in 2010?

As in you were wearing diapers when Curtis Martin started his career and like 5 or 6 when the Jets acquired him?

As in you never followed the sport before the existence and popularity of fantasy football, where the best and most valuable players are the ones who end up with the most attempts?

As in you never saw the game before touching a fingernail on a WR constituted pass interference as it does today?

I understand now why you think he was the best player the Jets ever had. I'm sorry I argued with you on this subject.

Age means nothing. Anyone who says that is ignorant.