Scott Dierking Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 I have been saying this for awhile. Let's say he plays one more season and retires with over 250 wins. And 7 world series championships to go along with all the postseason records. How can he not be a hall of famer? Kirby made it because he won 2 world series. 1st ballot for Andy. 1st ballot? Not a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 1st ballot? Not a chance He deserves to be. He changed how the game is played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 He deserves to be. He changed how the game is played. You mean lying about using steroids, THEN coming clean? They don't reward that. Pettite is a compiler. Baseball has a number of them. A number of them even make the HOF. Pettite was never even recognized as the best pitcher in his league one time for any particular year. 3 all star games? I know you are trying to drag me into something here, but the hall is not reserved for good pitchers who were fortunate enough o play for very good teams. And this coming from someone who considers Pettite to be one of the few good things about the yankees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 You mean lying about using steroids, THEN coming clean? They don't reward that. Pettite is a compiler. Baseball has a number of them. A number of them even make the HOF. Pettite was never even recognized as the best pitcher in his league one time for any particular year. 3 all star games? I know you are trying to drag me into something here, but the hall is not reserved for good pitchers who were fortunate enough o play for very good teams. And this coming from someone who considers Pettite to be one of the few good things about the yankees. The Yankees have been a good team because in large part they could depend on Pettitte starting 2 games every postseason series. And he did that also with a mediocre 2005 Astros team too. I grant you the "compiler" thing(hello, Don Sutton! who Pettitte is also better than), but Pettitte is better than Tommy John, Bert Blyleven and Jim Kaat-all very good, but Pettitte seperates from them because of the postseason. If the writers are going to block everyone they know or think used PEDs, they are going to be inducting NOBODY every August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 You mean lying about using steroids, THEN coming clean? They don't reward that. Pettite is a compiler. Baseball has a number of them. A number of them even make the HOF. Pettite was never even recognized as the best pitcher in his league one time for any particular year. 3 all star games? I know you are trying to drag me into something here, but the hall is not reserved for good pitchers who were fortunate enough o play for very good teams. And this coming from someone who considers Pettite to be one of the few good things about the yankees. If they are going to let PED guys in then Pettitte belongs. Complier or not, he's better than pitchers already there, and his post season performances far exceed that of recognized best pitchers in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 If they are going to let PED guys in then Pettitte belongs. Complier or not, he's better than pitchers already there, and his post season performances far exceed that of recognized best pitchers in the league. Elect him to the Post Season Hall of Fame then. Although his era in postseason is only .01 less than regular season. Andy Pettite, good pitcher on good teams who played a lot of years. Not HAll worthy. Otherwise Orel Hershiser, Bob Welch, kevin Brown and others need consideration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Elect him to the Post Season Hall of Fame then. Although his era in postseason is only .001 less than regular season. Andy Pettite, good pitcher on good teams who played a lot of years. Not HAll worthy. Otherwise Orel Hershiser, Bob Welch, kevin Brown and others need consideration Fair enough, but they already let lesser pitchers (compilers) in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Fair enough, but they already let lesser pitchers (compilers) in. That's not a good reason to continue that practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 That's not a good reason to continue that practice. OK so are they putting an end to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted October 8, 2010 Author Share Posted October 8, 2010 Andy isn't a Hall of Famer. Anyways, the Rays and their endemic offense has been exposed. The reason they are always frequently shutout is and on the wrong end of a no hitter or close no hitter is because their offense is not very good. If you throw them strikes, you will do really well. Too many players hitting under .250, too many players strike out, even Longoria. Rays best overall player Carl Crawford, is gone after next year. They may be able to keep Pena, because no is going to want him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 The HoF is confused about this. Puckett is in with identical regular season numbers to Mattingly, who will not get in.All that seperates them is 2 WS championships. And Jack Morris, a borderline HoFer, won't get in despite pitching the most clutch game 7 ever. Pettitte now has more postseason wins than anyone. Granted there wasn't any playoffs until 1969, but what? No one else is close.The postseason ahs to count for something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 You mean lying about using steroids, THEN coming clean? They don't reward that. Pettite is a compiler. Baseball has a number of them. A number of them even make the HOF. Pettite was never even recognized as the best pitcher in his league one time for any particular year. 3 all star games? I know you are trying to drag me into something here, but the hall is not reserved for good pitchers who were fortunate enough o play for very good teams. And this coming from someone who considers Pettite to be one of the few good things about the yankees. Pettite never lied about and then admitted to using steroids. If you are not a fan of the game, that is okay, we have plenty of threads that will help you learn. But please my time is valuable so until you up your game a bit maybe we should not debate. I am a very busy webmaster with a site to run, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 The HoF is confused about this. Puckett is in with identical regular season numbers to Mattingly, who will not get in.All that seperates them is 2 WS championships. And Jack Morris, a borderline HoFer, won't get in despite pitching the most clutch game 7 ever. Pettitte now has more postseason wins than anyone. Granted there wasn't any playoffs until 1969, but what? No one else is close.The postseason ahs to count for something. That is exactly my point. I am okay with Andy not getting in. They will need to retroactively remove Kirby though. And I don't believe that Andy will make it as a 1st ballot guy. Normally he would and it could happen but I think they make him wait a bit over the HGH issue. Andy will retire after next season with 254 career wins and 8 World Series rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Why is Yogi in the Hall of Fame? Is it his 2,100 hits? Or his 350 home runs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Also back on topic, who thinks the Yankees close this series out tonight? I hope they do and somehow Tampa makes some noise. Wanted that series to go to 5, to avoid Cliff Lee in game one. Although in a weird way it is almost better in the Yankees win in game 4 with CC. Why? If he doesn't pitch again until 10/15 that is what almost 10 days without throwing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Why is Yogi in the Hall of Fame? Is it his 2,100 hits? Or his 350 home runs? The fact that he did it as a catcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Pettite never lied about and then admitted to using steroids. If you are not a fan of the game, that is okay, we have plenty of threads that will help you learn. But please my time is valuable so until you up your game a bit maybe we should not debate. I am a very busy webmaster with a site to run, lol. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/16/sports/baseball/16pettitte.html I draw you attention to: Pettitte had previously denied using performance-enhancing drugs. Last year, The Los Angeles Times reported that Pettitte was among the players the former Yankee Jason Grimsley said used performance-enhancing drugs in a federal affidavit. “I haven’t done anything,” Pettitte said on Oct. 1, 2006. “I guess reports are saying I’ve used performance-enhancing drugs. I’ve never used any drugs to enhance my performance in baseball before. I don’t know what else to say except to say it’s embarrassing my name would be out there.” Pettitte is among three players to come forward and admit to using performance-enhancing drugs since the Mitchell report was released. On Friday, during his radio show in Sacramento, F. P. Santangelo acknowledged that he took H.G.H., and Gary Bennett told The Washington Post on Friday that he used H.G.H. in 2003. I guess being so busy as a webmaster includes selective memory and reading. Hop you learned something here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 The fact that he did it as a catcher That makes sense. They probably gave special consideration to him for being short as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 http://www.nytimes.c...16pettitte.html I draw you attention to: Pettitte had previously denied using performance-enhancing drugs. Last year, The Los Angeles Times reported that Pettitte was among the players the former Yankee Jason Grimsley said used performance-enhancing drugs in a federal affidavit. “I haven’t done anything,” Pettitte said on Oct. 1, 2006. “I guess reports are saying I’ve used performance-enhancing drugs. I’ve never used any drugs to enhance my performance in baseball before. I don’t know what else to say except to say it’s embarrassing my name would be out there.” Pettitte is among three players to come forward and admit to using performance-enhancing drugs since the Mitchell report was released. On Friday, during his radio show in Sacramento, F. P. Santangelo acknowledged that he took H.G.H., and Gary Bennett told The Washington Post on Friday that he used H.G.H. in 2003. I guess being so busy as a webmaster includes selective memory and reading. Hop you learned something here I didn't. You said that he lied about and admitted to using steroids. I don't see anything about that in the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 That makes sense. They probably gave special consideration to him for being short as well. How many catchers have greater overall numbers than Berra? How many of those that aren't in the Hall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 I didn't. You said that he lied about and admitted to using steroids. I don't see anything about that in the article. If you choose to be obtuse, nothing that I can change about that, other than to say it's another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 How many catchers have greater overall numbers than Berra? How many of those that aren't in the Hall? Piazza. How many pitchers have greater overall numbers than Pettite and are not in the hall of fame? He has 259 wins in total and isn't done pitching yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 If you choose to be obtuse, nothing that I can change about that, other than to say it's another day. Listen you can call me obtuse but making fat jokes doesn't help you win this debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Piazza. How many pitchers have greater overall numbers than Pettite and are not in the hall of fame? He has 259 wins in total and isn't done pitching yet. Berra has as many MVPs as Pettite has all star appearances. Piazza is not in because he used PEDs, just like Pettite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Piazza. How many pitchers have greater overall numbers than Pettite and are not in the hall of fame? He has 259 wins in total and isn't done pitching yet. Mussina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Berra has as many MVPs as Pettite has all star appearances. Piazza is not in because he used PEDs, just like Pettite I feel like my work is done here. You are now using the PED term instead of mislabeling people with the steroid tag. Scott, you are welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 I feel like my work is done here. You are now using the PED term instead of mislabeling people with the steroid tag. Scott, you are welcome. Go eat your pancakes, obtuse boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Mussina Being serious for a moment... Moose could have hung on for 300 and he would have made it. But as a compiler only. He was always good, never great. Andy shines when the stage gets bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Go eat your pancakes, obtuse boy. No breakfast for me today. Going to go outside and put up a few fence panels. Then it is off to my sons football game. Thank you for checking in though Scott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Being serious for a moment... Moose could have hung on for 300 and he would have made it. But as a compiler only. He was always good, never great. Andy shines when the stage gets bigger. Show where his post season numbers are far greater than his regular season numbers. His ERA is just .01 better. His WHIP slightly better. Stat geeks tell me that wins mean nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Show where his post season numbers are far greater than his regular season numbers. His ERA is just .01 better. His WHIP slightly better. Stat geeks tell me that wins mean nothing. That means a lot actually. The aggregate index shows that the offensive numbers in the postseason offer a statistical barrier because only the better teams are playing. RHIA showed, I think it was two years ago, that in the AL the offense production was 9-13% higher from innings 1 through 8. Dominant closers in the 9th are the only ones that have faired better in the postseason over the long haul. The fact that his numbers improved, even slightly, against offensive improvements in the 9-13% range show that Andy's accomplishments are truly great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 That means a lot actually. The aggregate index shows that the offensive numbers in the postseason offer a statistical barrier because only the better teams are playing. RHIA showed, I think it was two years ago, that in the AL the offense production was 9-13% higher from innings 1 through 8. Dominant closers in the 9th are the only ones that have faired better in the postseason over the long haul. The fact that his numbers improved, even slightly, against offensive improvements in the 9-13% range show that Andy's accomplishments are truly great. Except when Mariano pitched . Touche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Except when Mariano pitched . Touche Don't get me started on the RHIA analysis of Mariano. Let's save that for another thread. After the Yankees parade, lol. You the man Scott. Go Yankees! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Food for thought: If they let Pettitte in, Schilling should also go in. What say you now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Food for thought: If they let Pettitte in, Schilling should also go in. What say you now? I don't think so. Not enough wins, winning percentage is below .600. He was a gamer though just falls short. The rings definitely help him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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