The Three Teams Bill Cowher Wants To Coach Next Year Are...

[Garb]

You know what's really funny about this? I was wrong. Doesn't bother me to admit it. I'm a Jets fan and no expert on the Pats history nor do I claim to be. What's really funny about this is that it took almost four hours and a google search for you to refute my claims and you're supposed to be a Pats fan. Could it be that you had no clue whether I was right or wrong because you never even heard of the Pats prior to January 2002?

Hmmmmm.

Then why argue with me about stuff you don't know anything about? One thing I do know, is Patriotsology. Other stuff, not so much

[Klecko73isGod]

That's just pro football reference. One thing for Jacksonville. They give a guy some rope. How long has Del Rio been over there? If he were here there would polls and petitions non-stop. The Giants and Steelers traditionally have solid ownership that puts good football people in place and sticks with them. That's opposed to the Jets passing over Walt Michaels, Buddy Ryan and whatever other talent was out there for Weeb's son in law Charley Winner. In reality, Winner was around football forever and had been a defensive assistant and coach with the Colts and 'Skins and was a head coach with a winning record in St Louis, but still...

Del Rio has been coaching the Jags for seven years and more and more they are resembling the Herm/Pennington era Jets - they can win 10 games, they can get themselves to the playoffs, they tease you and convince you they turned the corner, only to fall apart when it counts the most.

[Klecko73isGod]

Then why argue with me about stuff you don't know anything about? One thing I do know, is Patriotsology. Other stuff, not so much

Because it excites me baby.

[Garb]

Because it excites me baby.

Hmmm.....I think I'm giving you a new nickname. CORKY!

[Klecko73isGod]

Hmmm.....I think I'm giving you a new nickname. CORKY!

I do not resemble Matthew Stafford.

[JiFtheOracle]

You think all of this because you are crazy or have a poor memory. I don't like Cowher. I have gone on record as stating I'd rather root for coaches I like (Rex Ryan)than those I don't (Big Bill and Little Bill). OTOH, Cowher has a career record of 150-90. He has 3 losing seasons (and one 8-8) in 15 years of coaching and never had a record worse than 6-10. He has had double digit winning seasons with Neil O'Donnell, Mike Tomzak, Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox and Big Rape. No worries about his ability being linked to the QB.

Coughlin is a quality coach, but has shown signs of losing teams on several occasions. Helmet throwing, players only meetings, long losing streaks. He did a great job early on with the Jags, but he lost that team and had three straight losing seasons before they let him go. As the Giants coach he has fallen apart at the end of almost every season. He also has an excellent record, but it's nothing like Cowher's. They have coached the same number of seasons and Cowher has some 17 more wins and six more playoff games.

First off, I dont know how far I'm going to take this argument because I think its more of a matter of opinion but,

I'm having a hard time seeing the error is my post. Why is it crazy to be more impressed with Coughlin? Even with this beautiful post you put together, I'm still more impressed. Tom Coughlin's first HC'ing gig in the NFL was the expansion team Jacksonville Jaguars...not the NFL elite Pittsburgh Steelers.

His team definitely laid some stinkers toward the end of his coaching days with the Jags, but until those last 2 seasons, he was averaging 10 wins per year with the F'ing Jags led by Mark Brunnell...its not like he was that much better than the QB's you listed above. And to this day is the most successful HC in expansion team history in his first ever HC'ing job in the NFL.

I'm more impressed with a guy who took over an expansion team, made them one of the better teams in the league, only to take over a reeling team, and then win a SB with in 4 years. Than I am a coach who took over an elite team from an all time great coach only to sustain success for a number of years, to continually come up short, and then finally put it all together 12 years later only to have the next guy in line win one in year 2.

Therefore IMO Coughlin >>>> Cowher

[#27TheDominator]

First off, I dont know how far I'm going to take this argument because I think its more of a matter of opinion but,

I'm having a hard time seeing the error is my post. Why is it crazy to be more impressed with Coughlin? Even with this beautiful post you put together, I'm still more impressed. Tom Coughlin's first HC'ing gig in the NFL was the expansion team Jacksonville Jaguars...not the NFL elite Pittsburgh Steelers.

His team definitely laid some stinkers toward the end of his coaching days with the Jags, but until those last 2 seasons, he was averaging 10 wins per year with the F'ing Jags led by Mark Brunnell...its not like he was that much better than the QB's you listed above. And to this day is the most successful HC in expansion team history in his first ever HC'ing job in the NFL.

I'm more impressed with a guy who took over an expansion team, made them one of the better teams in the league, only to take over a reeling team, and then win a SB with in 4 years. Than I am a coach who took over an elite team from an all time great coach only to sustain success for a number of years, to continually come up short, and then finally put it all together 12 years later only to have the next guy in line win one in year 2.

Therefore IMO Coughlin >>>> Cowher

The Giants were in the super bowl a few years before Coughlin took over. Fassel was kind of a geek and people were expecting him to leave. Collins got hurt. They had 10 wins the year before the 4-10 season. Let's not act like they were in dumps. LOL at calling the Steelers "elite". They were in the playoffs once in the 7 seasons before Cowher took over. hadn't won 10 games in 8. The team made the playoffs Cowher's first 6 years and had one season (9-7) under 10 wins.

You can't harp on a team being an expansion team after five years. The coach/GM can fully remake a team in 3. When you are with one team that long it's all on you. I give Coughlin props for being a solid coach, but Cowher did it for 15 years, how long was he relying on what Noll built? Those stars like Louis Lipps and Merrill Hoge?

There are two reasons that I think Coughlin is worse:

1. He has a worse record and less playoff experience and less playoff success in the same amount of time.

2. Coughlin has alienated tons of guys with his hardass style and moronic rules which make Mangini having guys run laps look like nuclear physics. Coughlin has been forced to scale back and have control taken away (with that bullsh*t leadership council) because he was losing the team.

Personally I'd be pissed if either ever coached the Jets because I find them both unlikeable fake hardasses.

Oh and Brunell >>> Tomczak and Stewart. By a mile. He is also better than Maddox and O'Donnell, but those guys at least had some good seasons. Coughlin has had the same two QBs for his whole NFL coaching career, except for a half season of Warner. Cowher has done it with everybody and anybody. IMO that means more than the fact that the team taken over won 3 more games the prior year. Especially when we are talking about 10 years down the line.

[JiFtheOracle]

The Giants were in the super bowl a few years before Coughlin took over. Fassel was kind of a geek and people were expecting him to leave. Collins got hurt. They had 10 wins the year before the 4-10 season. Let's not act like they were in dumps. LOL at calling the Steelers "elite". They were in the playoffs once in the 7 seasons before Cowher took over. hadn't won 10 games in 8. The team made the playoffs Cowher's first 6 years and had one season (9-7) under 10 wins.

You can't harp on a team being an expansion team after five years. The coach/GM can fully remake a team in 3. When you are with one team that long it's all on you. I give Coughlin props for being a solid coach, but Cowher did it for 15 years, how long was he relying on what Noll built? Those stars like Louis Lipps and Merrill Hoge?

There are two reasons that I think Coughlin is worse:

1. He has a worse record and less playoff experience and less playoff success in the same amount of time.

2. Coughlin has alienated tons of guys with his hardass style and moronic rules which make Mangini having guys run laps look like nuclear physics. Coughlin has been forced to scale back and have control taken away (with that bullsh*t leadership council) because he was losing the team.

Personally I'd be pissed if either ever coached the Jets because I find them both unlikeable fake hardasses.

Oh and Brunell >>> Tomczak and Stewart. By a mile. He is also better than Maddox and O'Donnell, but those guys at least had some good seasons. Coughlin has had the same two QBs for his whole NFL coaching career, except for a half season of Warner. Cowher has done it with everybody and anybody. IMO that means more than the fact that the team taken over won 3 more games the prior year. Especially when we are talking about 10 years down the line.

Meh, Tomczack stunk...but Slash was one of the better weapons in the league for a while. I think you are highly overrating Brunnell...all the guys mentioned are pretty equal. But whatever...they both won with mediocre QB's and they both only have 1 ring.

I just find what Coughlin did with Jacksonville in his first HC'ing gig much more impressive than anything of Bill Cowher's history. Then combine that with winning SB with another team...and that is icing on the cake for me. Cowher won for years, great...but what does he have to show for it? Nothing more than Tom Coughlin.

[Jetsfan80]

Who else would he have taken there?

Bradford was the obvious number 1 QB in this year's draft.

Ndamukong Suh was very much in the running to be the # 1 pick, but the Rams fell in love with Bradford, and rightly so.

[#27TheDominator]

Meh, Tomczack stunk...but Slash was one of the better weapons in the league for a while. I think you are highly overrating Brunnell...all the guys mentioned are pretty equal. But whatever...they both won with mediocre QB's and they both only have 1 ring.

I just find what Coughlin did with Jacksonville in his first HC'ing gig much more impressive than anything of Bill Cowher's history. Then combine that with winning SB with another team...and that is icing on the cake for me. Cowher won for years, great...but what does he have to show for it? Nothing more than Tom Coughlin.

A few different things at work here.

You like Coughlin better, I think Cowher is clearly better. Fine you think what you think and I think what I think.

Somebody, (Crusher?) said the winning probably started with Ben and Troy, well, he had 7 10+ win seasons before those guys came along and made the playoffs 8 times. Including (losing) a super bowl.

You guys say you'd rather the Dolphins got Cowher because they would be mired in mediocrity. You seem to place an enormous value on super bowl wins and Coughlin's performance with the expansion team, but I assure you that Cowher's teams have not been "mediocre". He finished 1st 9 times, 2nd twice, 3rd 3 times and 4th once. Average finish 1.7. It's not like it's been such a weak division either. The Ravens won the super bowl during his tenure. I'd rather the 'phins didn't get a coach that averages 10 wins per season.

[CTM]

The blend of vets he brought in along with some good rookies, and installing his "system" and lockeroom were paramount. Although it should take time....the turn around happened pretty quickly. Caroll took a team just off the SB...and it became progressively worse with every season. The 1999 season had them with 8 wins. Could be why his was FIRED! You know - taking a good team and effing it up....

BB had five wins the year after - after getting rid of some sh*t - attitude and personnel.

Do you ever get sick of being wrong, Zippy?

Brady made bill b as a hc.. despite klacko being a lunkhead with the specifics, his overall point is correct..

Just be thankful

i would bet every dollar i have and will make that had he stayed here we wouldn't of won dick and he'd be a DC somewhere by now

[CTM]

4). Matt Cassell lead the Patriots to an 11-5 record in 2008.

and didn't make the playoffs.. the afc and nfc west were so bad that year that the dolphins and pats go fat on them by beating horrible teams.. They went 17-0 the year prior against a much toughrer schedule.

What a silly point.. 4 real

[Klecko73isGod]

Brady made bill b as a hc.. despite him being a lunkhead with the specifics, his overall point is correct..

Just be thankful

i would bet every dollar i have and will make that had he stayed here we wouldn't of won dick and he'd be a DC somewhere by now

Exactly. This need that Pats fans have to "prove" that Belichick had this grand master plan that included drafting Tom Brady is pathological. Why can't Boston fans just be grateful for their teams' success and not need to assign some kind of greater meaning to it?

[T0mShane]

If Coughlin is coaching the Dolphins this year they're likely a 10, 11 win team. Just sayin'

[Jetscode1]

My two cents...

Prefer Cowher stays away from Miami...he's a solid coach who sees some strong building blocks on the defensive side of the ball, especially if he keeps Nolan...not sure if they have any connections...the offense is on the decline but I'd just prefer this team wither away with the mediocre leadership this team has post-Parcells...of the three teams listed the Phins are still the most likely to overpay him.

Don't care if Cowher goes to the Giants or not. Pretty sure he'd change the defense to a 3-4 but there is plenty of talent on the both sides of the ball. Eli makes his job easier...just don't think the Giants make this kind of move. Their modus operandi in the past would lean against paying big bucks for a coach like Cowher.

Most interesting team mentioned was the Texans...underachieving team for several years now. Excellent offense with solid QB and two stars (Andre Johnson and Arian Foster). Plus on the defensive side gets Super Mario plus Cushing and Okoye and hopefully a healthy DeMeco Ryans back next year. In the past the ownership has been willing to take the wait and see approach to coaching in the hopes their defense finally caught up with their offense but maybe they have reached the point where they are ready to move. Best guess of the three is Cowher really would prefer to land in Houston.

Which leads to...where will Kubiak wind up when he hits the road...I would really love to see the JETS make a play for Kubiak as our new offensive coordinator in the event Schotty Jr is not retained. Prior to moving to Houston he was credited for turning around another turnover-prone QB into a solid QB (Jake the snake Plummer). Plus for all his troubles in Houston they have always had a strong, creative offensive scheme that moves the chains. Could see him really have a positive impact on Sanchez's development...

[JiFtheOracle]

A few different things at work here.

You like Coughlin better, I think Cowher is clearly better. Fine you think what you think and I think what I think.

Somebody, (Crusher?) said the winning probably started with Ben and Troy, well, he had 7 10+ win seasons before those guys came along and made the playoffs 8 times. Including (losing) a super bowl.

You guys say you'd rather the Dolphins got Cowher because they would be mired in mediocrity. You seem to place an enormous value on super bowl wins and Coughlin's performance with the expansion team, but I assure you that Cowher's teams have not been "mediocre". He finished 1st 9 times, 2nd twice, 3rd 3 times and 4th once. Average finish 1.7. It's not like it's been such a weak division either. The Ravens won the super bowl during his tenure. I'd rather the 'phins didn't get a coach that averages 10 wins per season.

Great...so he had a highly competitive team that couldnt win the big one for many many years...basically in the Marty Schottenhiemer/Bud Grant camp of coaching until all the stars finally aligned. And with all the great seasons he had, he's got as many rings to show for it as Coughlin.

Exactly. This need that Pats fans have to "prove" that Belichick had this grand master plan that included drafting Tom Brady is pathological. Why can't Boston fans just be grateful for their teams' success and not need to assign some kind of greater meaning to it?

I'll never understand this about Boston sports. Its weird.

BB is just another coach without Tom Brady and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Klecko73isGod]

Great...so he had a highly competitive team that couldnt win the big one for many many years...basically in the Marty Schottenhiemer/Bud Grant camp of coaching until all the stars finally aligned. And with all the great seasons he had, he's got as many rings to show for it as Coughlin.

I'll never understand this about Boston sports. Its weird.

BB is just another coach without Tom Brady and there's nothing wrong with that.

It's bizarre, right?

With the Pats, they have to make BB out to be the greatest coach ever, ignoring his cheating and contradicting their own claims of his greatness by assigning themselves with more football knowledge than their appointed genius in the course of defending his worthless, cheating a$$. With the Red Sox, they act like its some kind noble endeavor, all the while pretending their star players' rampant steroid use never happened and the fact that it wasn't until a former minority owner of the Yankees bought the Sox and started spending almost as much (and in some cases more) money than the Yanks (essentially following the Yankees business model to the letter) that they started winning.

[#27TheDominator]

Great...so he had a highly competitive team that couldnt win the big one for many many years...basically in the Marty Schottenhiemer/Bud Grant camp of coaching until all the stars finally aligned. And with all the great seasons he had, he's got as many rings to show for it as Coughlin.

I'll never understand this about Boston sports. Its weird.

BB is just another coach without Tom Brady and there's nothing wrong with that.

Nice that you keep comparing rings, but make sure you understand my point:

You may not want them to coach your team, but I would ABSOLUTELY ******* HATE to have a Marty Schottenheimer or Bud Grant coached team in my division.

[PatriotReign37]

You know what's really funny about this? I was wrong. Doesn't bother me to admit it. I'm a Jets fan and no expert on the Pats history nor do I claim to be.

What's really funny about this is that it took almost four hours and a google search for you to refute my claims and you're supposed to be a Pats fan. Could it be that you had no clue whether I was right or wrong because you never even heard of the Pats prior to January 2002?

Hmmmmm.

Only a fool would argue that Belichick is a bad HC.

Just sayin.

[Garb]

Great...so he had a highly competitive team that couldnt win the big one for many many years...basically in the Marty Schottenhiemer/Bud Grant camp of coaching until all the stars finally aligned. And with all the great seasons he had, he's got as many rings to show for it as Coughlin.

I'll never understand this about Boston sports. Its weird.

BB is just another coach without Tom Brady and there's nothing wrong with that.

I think the two need each other...BB and TB. Not sure either would be great without eachother. They think alike. Have the same work ethic and competitive drive. Listen to the pressers....they are starting to sound alike.

Still, BB has his SB defensive game plan from his days with the Giants in the HOF.

I think the Pats' success has a lot to do with consistency regarding the scheme too. They promote from within. System in tact. No new HC's, OC's, DC's etc.

But, Yah, Tom Brady is pretty swell. And, Zippy-Corky is pretty swell as being a contrarian.

[Klecko73isGod]

Only a fool would argue that Belichick is a bad HC.

Just sayin.

Here's where you're an idiot. Nobody is arguing that.

The argument is that he is an average coach without Brady, which his record proves.

[Klecko73isGod]

I think the two need each other...BB and TB. Not sure either would be great without eachother. They think alike. Have the same work ethic and competitive drive. Listen to the pressers....they are starting to sound alike.

Still, BB has his SB defensive game plan from his days with the Giants in the HOF.

I think the Pats' success has a lot to do with consistency regarding the scheme too. They promote from within. System in tact. No new HC's, OC's, DC's etc.

But, Yah, Tom Brady is pretty swell. And, Zippy-Corky is pretty swell as being a contrarian.

You can throw a rock and hit a great coordinator (offense and defense alike) that were crappy to average head coaches.

[Garb]

You can throw a rock and hit a great coordinator (offense and defense alike) that were crappy to average head coaches.

.....and I bet someone could throw a rock at your head and nothing would happen. Your fact accuracy rate would be below average to crappy.

[Klecko73isGod]

.....and I bet someone could throw a rock at your head and nothing would happen.

It would hurt. That's so mean.

[Garb]

It would hurt. That's so mean.

Who you kiddin', Zippy-Corky? You're so thick headed, nothing could put a dent in that skull of yours, I'm sure. Unless, of course, some posters here are correct and you are really a dweeby momma's boy that lives jobless in his parents basement. Remember that show with Chris Elliott, the 35 year old paper boy? Corky's cousin? Remember? Yah...like that.

[Klecko73isGod]

Who you kiddin', Zippy-Corky? You're so thick headed, nothing could put a dent in that skull of yours, I'm sure. Unless, of course, some posters here are correct and you are really a dweeby momma's boy that lives jobless in his parents basement. Remember that show with Chris Elliott, the 35 year old paper boy? Corky's cousin? Remember? Yah...like that.

Did I insult you Terry? What the **** prompted this?

This is just uncalled for.

[dbatesman]

Remember that show with Chris Elliott, the 35 year old paper boy?

Was that a ******* Get a Life reference?

[Garb]

Did I insult you Terry? What the **** prompted this?

This is just uncalled for.

LOL!

Just fufilling the Boston Sports fan sterotype

[Garb]

Was that a ******* Get a Life reference?

lol..I see the irony, funny man. Although I thought Life Goes On was the better metaphor for this place.

[dbatesman]

lol..I see the irony, funny man. Although I thought Life Goes On was the better metaphor for this place.

No irony intended, for once. I just loled at the randomness of it.

[JiFtheOracle]

Nice that you keep comparing rings, but make sure you understand my point:

You may not want them to coach your team, but I would ABSOLUTELY ******* HATE to have a Marty Schottenheimer or Bud Grant coached team in my division.

Ha! I see where you are coming from. I guess I wouldnt mind if I had a team at least good enough to get the WC and just hope they choke in a big game...again...like Cowher

I think the two need each other...BB and TB. Not sure either would be great without eachother. They think alike. Have the same work ethic and competitive drive. Listen to the pressers....they are starting to sound alike.

Still, BB has his SB defensive game plan from his days with the Giants in the HOF.

I think the Pats' success has a lot to do with consistency regarding the scheme too. They promote from within. System in tact. No new HC's, OC's, DC's etc.

But, Yah, Tom Brady is pretty swell. And, Zippy-Corky is pretty swell as being a contrarian.

Meh, plenty of Coordinators have had their day. And I'm sure it didnt hurt having the greatest defensive player of all time on your side when BB was w/ the Giants.

Either way, I do think TB made BB as a HC...and there's nothing wrong with that. I really hate that these ****ers had to come about in our division, while our team has been competitive. Mostly because it hurts the Jets but also because TB is a pleasure to watch. Then you throw in the fact that the Jets created this monster...it really makes you want to puke. I fear that Rex Ryan could be great, but is stuck in the division with what will go down as the great HC/QB combo of all time when they win their 4 SB this season.

Posting that makes me think of AnchorMan - "I hate you Ron Burgundy, but damn it, I respect you".

[Garb]

Ha! I see where you are coming from. I guess I wouldnt mind if I had a team at least good enough to get the WC and just hope they choke in a big game...again...like Cowher

Meh, plenty of Coordinators have had their day. And I'm sure it didnt hurt having the greatest defensive player of all time on your side when BB was w/ the Giants.

Either way, I do think TB made BB as a HC...and there's nothing wrong with that. I really hate that these ****ers had to come about in our division, while our team has been competitive. Mostly because it hurts the Jets but also because TB is a pleasure to watch. Then you throw in the fact that the Jets created this monster...it really makes you want to you puke. I fear that Rex Ryan could be great, but is stuck in the division with what will go down as the great HC/QB combo of all time when they win their 4 SB this season.

Posting that makes me think of AnchorMan - "I hate you Ron Burgundy, but damn it, I respect you".

Spicoli, that reverse jinx sh*t won't work with me. I invented the concept.

[JiFtheOracle]

Spicoli, that reverse jinx sh*t won't work with me. I invented the concept.

No reverse jinx. I'm honestly think you are winning the SB. Cant decide if I like Philly or ATL representing the NFC. But there is not a single doubt in my mind that NE will win the SB this year.

[slats]

I'm more impressed with a guy who took over an expansion team, made them one of the better teams in the league, only to take over a reeling team, and then win a SB with in 4 years. Than I am a coach who took over an elite team from an all time great coach only to sustain success for a number of years, to continually come up short, and then finally put it all together 12 years later only to have the next guy in line win one in year 2.

Therefore IMO Coughlin >>>> Cowher

I'm not particularly impressed with the expansion team angle. That year, they expansion teams had some great advantages. The Carolina Panthers went 8-8 in their inaugural season, 12-4 and a Championship Game appearance in their second. They've since changed the way they bring new franchises into the league.

Cowher took over a team that had been to the playoffs once in the previous seven years, and brought them into the playoffs his first six years coaching the team with O'Donnell, Tomczak, and Stewart QB'ing the team. I'd say he started out there pretty well.

Of the two, I'd definitely prefer Cowher. Coughlin has an impressive resume of his own, but he does have a history of losing locker rooms, too.

I don't know how Cowher will fare without a strong front office behind him, though. That's a big advantage he had in Pittsburgh. That's another reason that the Giants would be the best fit for him. If he goes somewhere like the Texans or Miami and gets to buy the groceries, he's probably a lot more likely to fail.

[Garb]

No reverse jinx. I'm honestly think you are winning the SB. Cant decide if I like Philly or ATL representing the NFC. But there is not a single doubt in my mind that NE will win the SB this year.

They may survive the defenses deficiencies enough to earn the division crown, but the defense will get 'em bounced in the playoff's. I just don't think the beatdown will be as bad as the one the Ravens handed them last year.