Curtis Martin

[JetsFanInDenver]

After reading this thread i am convinced Martin was an very average player, mediocre to be honest, barely tolerable and who did not show up in the cherry picked set of games used to further that argument.

I wonder where he got all those yards that place him 4th on the all time list or the record number of consecutive 1000+ yards rushing seasons. Must be the strong o-line.

Why he was even picked as one of the nominees for yesterdays vote for Hall of Fame is beyond me.

Finally check if I mistakenly got to a Pats or Fins board. No, this is indeed a JETS board.

[BP]

One game my a$$.

Late 2000 Jets are 9-4. Win and we're in.

Away at Oakland, 17 carries for 11 yards (0.6 ypc). Jets lose.

Home game against the Lions. 16 carries for 53 yards (3.3 ypc). Jets lose.

Away at Baltimore, 18 carries for 47 yards (2.6ypc). Jets lose.

Late 1998 Jets are 8-4 and in the driver's seat to run away with the division (which we did).

Home against Seattle, 17 carries for 37 yards (2.2ypc) and a TD. Jets win thanks to refs mistaking Vinny's helmet for a football.

Away at Miami, 19 carries for 71 yards (3.7 ypc) & a TD. Jets barely win 21-16 and needed a TD on defense.

Away at Buffalo, 20 carries for 38 yards (1.9 ypc). Jets win 17-10 no thanks to our elite top-5 RB.

Home against NE with nothing to play for. 29 carries for 102 yards (3.5ypc). Jets win thanks to Bledsoe-less NE just sucking and Vinny throwing 4 TD's (one to Martin).

That Jacksonville playoff game was more due to manhandling Brunell than Martin taking 3 dozen handoffs for his 120 yards. Jacksonville didn't exactly have an elite rush defense either. Oh and don't forget Martin lost a fumble inside Jacksonville's 20 that only Hudson's unbridled stupidity kept from changing the entire game.

Then of course was the Denver game. While there was plenty of Jets nose-holding going on, we should be able to rely on our "elite" RB to keep the ball out of Denver's hands with a 10-point 3rd-quarter lead. We could have done something early-on also. Vinny & Chrebet took us down the field on the opening drive while Martin gained nothing, and Hall missed a 40-yarder. Maybe if our elite RB gets us 5-10 yards closer (or - gasp! - even closer) the game's different. A blink of an eye later Meggett returns a punt 30-something yards to mid-field and immediately Martin coughs it up for the second playoff game in a row.

So spare us the revisionist "based on one game" stuff. This is only a small sampling of his big-game and late season choking anyway.

He had a great career but c'mon, he was the quintessential NOT-making-something-from-nothing RB like elite RB's did and do. In a single game against a good rush defense for all the marbles, where you're going to need to move the ball on the ground, Martin is one of the last guys you'd want carrying the ball for you.

His career summary was not that he was great, but that he was good for an unusually long time.

Yes there is because most rookie running backs don't get 368 carries and some go into a 2 back system..Emmitt Smith would have had 12 1,000+ season if he had more then 241 carries as a rookie.. Same with Jim Brown who had 202 as a rookie and missed by 58 yds.. Also most backs don't compile for 10 years..

Would JiF be classified as a ''Martinette'' at least he didnt threaten to run you over in the parking lot for your CuMar bashing

[Bugg]

After reading this thread i am convinced Martin was an very average player, mediocre to be honest, barely tolerable and who did not show up in the cherry picked set of games used to further that argument.

I wonder where he got all those yards that place him 4th on the all time list or the record number of consecutive 1000+ yards rushing seasons. Must be the strong o-line.

Why he was even picked as one of the nominees for yesterdays vote for Hall of Fame is beyond me.

Finally check if I mistakenly got to a Pats or Fins board. No, this is indeed a JETS board.

By the same token, after reading the other half of the posts herein, I'm going to call up NFL Films to find this footage of those great playoff games Martin had with the Jets and the 2 Lombardis they won while he was here.

He showed up every Sunday. He had good and sometimes games against inferior and mediocre opposition.Also, hye played his entire Jets career with a HoF center and until Edwards started signing 18 DBs and ditching OL guys, a very good OL. He stayed healthy enough to amass statistics that are impressive.But when it mattered most, he was mostly okay to lousy.

[BP]

By the same token, after reading the other half of the posts herein, I'm going to call up NFL Films to find this footage of those great playoff games Martin had with the Jets and the 2 Lombardis they won while he was here.

He showed up every SUnday. He had good and sometimes games against inferior and mediocre opposition.He styae healthy enough to amass statistics that are impressive.But when it mattered msot, he was mostly okay to lousy.

He also fumbled on that play that Vinny blew his Achilles on in 1999. he doesnt fumble and the Jets win the super bowl that year.

[CTM]

After reading this thread i am convinced Martin was an very average player, mediocre to be honest, barely tolerable and who did not show up in the cherry picked set of games used to further that argument.

I wonder where he got all those yards that place him 4th on the all time list or the record number of consecutive 1000+ yards rushing seasons. Must be the strong o-line.

Why he was even picked as one of the nominees for yesterdays vote for Hall of Fame is beyond me.

Finally check if I mistakenly got to a Pats or Fins board. No, this is indeed a JETS board.

I could be wrong, but I'm sensing a bit of sarcasm here.

[CTM]

Would JiF be classified as a ''Martinette'' at least he didnt threaten to run you over in the parking lot for your CuMar bashing

I support any nickname for jif that ends in the feminine form of french a diminutive suffix

[Savage69]

Would JiF be classified as a ''Martinette'' at least he didnt threaten to run you over in the parking lot for your CuMar bashing

JIF is a 1st class Martinette.. I don't bash Martin I just show the lies that the Martinette's tell.. JIF will tell you the 300 pound fat Girl that likes him is only really 120..

[DMaynard]

After reading this thread i am convinced Martin was an very average player, mediocre to be honest, barely tolerable and who did not show up in the cherry picked set of games used to further that argument.

I wonder where he got all those yards that place him 4th on the all time list or the record number of consecutive 1000+ yards rushing seasons. Must be the strong o-line.

Why he was even picked as one of the nominees for yesterdays vote for Hall of Fame is beyond me.

Finally check if I mistakenly got to a Pats or Fins board. No, this is indeed a JETS board.

I think the emotion of this argument tends to bring out perceived extremes on both sides that do not really exist. Any Jet fan who does not agree Martin was a very good to great player with many admirable qualitites can't be being honest with themselves. He deserves to go to the HOF someday. The negative vibes (I am sure in most if not all cases) are simply the reaction to Jets fans who overrate him. And disagreeing with the thinking that he is on par with a Marshall Faulk or was a sure first ballot HOFer is just the resonable reaction of those who do not believe he is an all time great.

[Jetsfan80]

Nothing brings out the best (and worst) of JetNation than a good, old-fashioned Curtis Martin debate. The best and brightest posters of this board all converged on this thread and put up their best arguments for and against the "Curtis Martin-is-elite" debate.

Its threads like these that make me proud to be a member of this gay-rights message board. Well done folks.

[CTM]

I think the emotion of this argument tends to bring out perceived extremes on both sides that do not really exist.

sounds like good, quality interneting..

[DMaynard]

Nothing brings out the best (and worst) of JetNation than a good, old-fashioned Curtis Martin debate. The best and brightest posters of this board all converged on this thread and put up their best arguments for and against the "Curtis Martin-is-elite" debate.

Its threads like these that make me proud to be a member of this gay-rights message board. Well done folks.

It would not have been possible without Max passing that JN "Don't ask don't tell" JN legislation.

[Sperm Edwards]

Cool, i'm not crying. I expected this. No biggie, the Hall is a shame anyway. They let people no more qualified than you decide. I just completely disagree with you and dont really care to break down piece by piece why. I've done it a hundred times before and its boring. You'll say yeah but and ignore his accomplishments, so it pointless

People have their agenda...thats fine...so do voters...thats fine. Clearly yours is Curtis wasnt worth the money. I think thats silly. He's easily the most identifiable player to look at that turned this franchise around and made them competitive. I'll take Bill Parcells opinion over yours.

There's been a thousands of Rb's to grace this league, only 2 have done what Curtis did. Yet he's not elite. I'm not sure how many better definitions of underrated exist.

The franchise turned around the year before Martin got here. One could more easily argue that dumping O'Donnell (and then Foley) for Testaverde, and then replacing Roger Duffy with Kevin Mawae, each had a bigger impact than dumping Murrell (plus a first round pick plus enough cap space to fill with almost any player in the NFL) for Martin who had a sh*tty season in '98 anyway. To say nothing of an upgrade of coaches all over the place like I've never seen before.

But keep telling yourself that Martin turned the franchise around, though, if it makes you feel better. That what we were missing from the time before Martin got here was a RB who, when he did arrive, averaged an embarrassing 3.49 ypc in the regular season and 2.82 ypc in the post-season (losing fumbles in both playoff games). He followed those up by fumbling away the 1999 season in week 1.

And by the way, it was Bill Parcells who - when Martin was his RB in New England - said that the best RB in the division was Adrian Murrell. So much for the opinion of Bill Parcells I guess.

[Savage69]

I think the emotion of this argument tends to bring out perceived extremes on both sides that do not really exist. Any Jet fan who does not agree Martin was a very good to great player with many admirable qualitites can't be being honest with themselves. He deserves to go to the HOF someday. The negative vibes (I am sure in most if not all cases) are simply the reaction to Jets fans who overrate him. And disagreeing with the thinking that he is on par with a Marshall Faulk or was a sure first ballot HOFer is just the resonable reaction of those who do not believe he is an all time great.

The difference to me is if you watch a player and are wowed knowing this is a rare player like Gale Sayers for a example is one thing.. If stats are what wows you take Sayers out and put Martin in and take Montana out and put Vinny in who has almost 6 thousand more passing yards..

[Sperm Edwards]

The difference to me is if you watch a player and are wowed knowing this is a rare player like Gale Sayers for a example is one thing.. If stats are what wows you take Sayers out and put Martin in and take Montana out and put Vinny in who has almost 6 thousand more passing yards..

Vinny threw a TD pass in 21 consecutive seasons. No one else in the history of the NFL has done that. Clearly he belongs in the HOF.

[DMaynard]

The difference to me is if you watch a player and are wowed knowing this is a rare player like Gale Sayers for a example is one thing.. If stats are what wows you take Sayers out and put Martin in and take Montana out and put Vinny in who has almost 6 thousand more passing yards..

Exactly. Martin was not a game changer or game breaker like Sayers, Sanders, Campbell, Faulk. He did his job very efficiently. Did he scare the crap out of defenses like those guys? No way. Not even close.

[Sperm Edwards]

Exactly. Martin was not a game changer or game breaker like Sayers, Sanders, Campbell, Faulk. He did his job very efficiently. Did he scare the crap out of defenses like those guys? No way. Not even close.

Hater.

[CTM]

Nothing brings out the best (and worst) of JetNation than a good, old-fashioned Curtis Martin debate. The best and brightest posters of this board all converged on this thread and put up their best arguments for and against the "Curtis Martin-is-elite" debate.

Its threads like these that make me proud to be a member of this gay-rights message board. Well done folks.

Yeah, sperm must of dusted off some old research

[DMaynard]

Hater.

Well, he did start out a Patriot ...

[JetsFanInDenver]

By the same token, after reading the other half of the posts herein, I'm going to call up NFL Films to find this footage of those great playoff games Martin had with the Jets and the 2 Lombardis they won while he was here.

He showed up every Sunday. He had good and sometimes games against inferior and mediocre opposition.Also, hye played his entire Jets career with a HoF center and until Edwards started signing 18 DBs and ditching OL guys, a very good OL. He stayed healthy enough to amass statistics that are impressive.But when it mattered most, he was mostly okay to lousy.

Not every player in the Hall of Fame has won Lombardi's either.

Yeah that was it. The great oline!

[BP]

Yeah, sperm must of dusted off some old research

You should have seen Sperm against nyjunc (a Herm lover) back in the day. he made an epic anti Herm post that I saved to word on my old puter. probably the greatest Herm bashing post I have ever seen

[Jetsfan80]

Not every player in the Hall of Fame has won Lombardi's either.

Some great players will teams to Lombardi's. See: Elway.

There was an element about Dan Marino's character that prevented him from winning a championship, as great as his numbers were. I'm not convinced the Dolphins failed to win a title in spite of him, and rather agree he was part of the reason he never won a title. The same is true for Curtis Martin.

[Bugg]

Not every player in the Hall of Fame has won Lombardi's either.

Yeah that was it. The great oline!

Martin wasn't Tarkenton, who's teams got to Super Bowls because of his greatness. He never carried the jets in a big spot.

The OL only got bad under the later stages of Edwards. And Mawae was here his whole tenure. So now you're going to badmouth the whole team to make him better.

Day like today, when we aren't playing in the Super Bowl, when we're the kids with our noses agains the glass looking inside, are why many of you overvalue Martin. What else do you have. So you brag on this guy who had a solid, long but ultimately unspectacular career here,and often weak a career in big spots .

[Matt39]

To be fair, Payton wasn't very good in the playoffs either.

[Jetsfan80]

To be fair, Payton wasn't very good in the playoffs either.

To be fair, you can count one one hand how many players are as closely tied to a team's success (and failures) as Peyton is to the Colts. And he's in that category of player who has willed a team to wins in big games against tough defenses.

Curtis never was that guy.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Some great players will teams to Lombardi's. See: Elway.

There was an element about Dan Marino's character that prevented him from winning a championship, as great as his numbers were. I'm not convinced the Dolphins failed to win a title in spite of him, and rather agree he was part of the reason he never won a title. The same is true for Curtis Martin.

But both years when they won Super Bowls Elway had a running back called Terrell Davis.

Besides that Elway did not have a ring.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Martin wasn't Tarkenton, who's teams got to Super Bowls because of his greatness. He never carried the jets in a big spot.

The OL only got bad under the later stages of Edwards. And Mawae was here his whole tenure. So now you're going to badmouth the whole team to make him better.

Day like today, when we aren't playing in the Super Bowl, when we're the kids with our noses agains the glass looking inside, are why many of you overvalue Martin. What else do you have. So you brag on this guy who had a solid, long but ultimately unspectacular career here,and often weak a career in big spots .

The negativity is mind boggling!

[Jetsfan80]

But both years when they won Super Bowls Elway had a running back called Terrell Davis.

Besides that Elway did not have a ring.

Terrell Davis was not really in any kind of category of great.

[Savage69]

Terrell Davis was not really in any kind of category of great.

Did you see what he did in the playoffs and Bowls??

[JetsFanInDenver]

Terrell Davis was not really in any kind of category of great.

But he was really great in those 2 years.

1998 Denver Broncos 16 16 392 2,008 5.1 70 21 25 217 8.7 35 2 2 2

1997 Denver Broncos 15 15 369 1,750 4.7 50T 15 42 287 6.8 25 0 4 0

Too bad his career did not last long or ....wait i was told that was not a good thing for HOF inclusion!

[JetsFanInDenver]

Did you see what he did in the playoffs and Bowls??

Nah i am not good at cherry picking. And even if i had i would be told he had a great oline and a HOF QB (which is infact true). So why bother!

[Boozer76]

To be fair, you can count one one hand how many players are as closely tied to a team's success (and failures) as Peyton is to the Colts. And he's in that category of player who has willed a team to wins in big games against tough defenses.

Curtis never was that guy.

To be fair I believe he's referring to Walter PAYTON, not PEYTON Manning.

[PFSIKH]

Terrell Davis was not really in any kind of category of great.

Wait...what.

Dude would have been the first 20K back if not for injuries. He was great.

[JiFtheOracle]

What do the kids call it these days--owned? Pwned? Powned?

Owned. He pointed out 6/7 games in a 10 year career...lol.

Yes there is because most rookie running backs don't get 368 carries and some go into a 2 back system..Emmitt Smith would have had 12 1,000+ season if he had more then 241 carries as a rookie.. Same with Jim Brown who had 202 as a rookie and missed by 58 yds.. Also most backs don't compile for 10 years..

Cool story bro. Only 2 players have done it...ever.

To be fair, Payton wasn't very good in the playoffs either.

There are plenty of examples. Doesnt matter though, haters gunna hate.

[Matt39]

To be fair, you can count one one hand how many players are as closely tied to a team's success (and failures) as Peyton is to the Colts. And he's in that category of player who has willed a team to wins in big games against tough defenses.

Curtis never was that guy.

I meant Walter Payton

[RutgersJetFan]

Terrell Davis was not really in any kind of category of great.

Cocaine is a hell of a drug.