Owners' new tactic: Lying

[T0mShane]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6487600

Chiefs owner Clark Hunt told callers that small-market teams such as the Chiefs could be at a competitive disadvantage with big-market teams if the NFL does not adjust to the times.

For an example, Hunt needs only to watch the small-market Kansas City Royals. Unable to match the richer clubs' salary offers for top players the Royals have developed, Kansas City has been shut out of baseball's postseason since 1985.

"It's incredibly important for a team like the Kansas City Chiefs that we have a collective bargaining agreement that is good for all 32 clubs," Hunt said. "We don't want a system that heads in the direction of baseball. We have some concern that this has the potential to go that way. We want a deal that allows our great game to continue to grow."

Of the 12 teams that have played in the Super Bowl since the current CBA was implemented, only 2 (Giants, New England) are from major markets. In fact, the history of Super Bowls champions is filled with teams from miniscule markets: Green Bay, Oakland, Tampa, Pittsburgh. Comparing the Chiefs' situation to the Royals is nothing but a garbage scare tactic that, once again, points not to the players, but directly to the issues of the owners not controlling themselves. If these dicks want to mortgage their balls off to build new stadiums (mostly by extorting their municipalities) during a recession, all the while letting Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder take their concession/merchandising arms and horde them, that's not the players' problem, nor is it the fans'. This is like the owner of a major corporation finding out that the manager of his Dallas affiliate has been embezzling money from the central till and, instead of firing that manager, he comes home and tries to empty his kid's piggy bank to make up for the loss. If the owners ram through the CBA that they want, the league will cannibalize itself within 10 years, and it will look exactly like Major League Baseball. If they let Jerry Jones turn the Cowboys into the Yankees, then Clark Hunt can fully expect his team to turn into the Royals, and Dan Rooney can expect the Steelers to turn into the Pirates, etc. etc.

[nycdan]

Of the 12 teams that have played in the Super Bowl since the current CBA was implemented, only 2 (Giants, New England) are from major markets. In fact, the history of Super Bowls champions is filled with teams from miniscule markets: Green Bay, Oakland, Tampa, Pittsburgh. Comparing the Chiefs' situation to the Royals is nothing but a garbage scare tactic that, once again, points not to the players, but directly to the issues of the owners not controlling themselves. If these dicks want to mortgage their balls off to build new stadiums (mostly by extorting their municipalities) during a recession, all the while letting Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder take their concession/merchandising arms and horde them, that's not the players' problem, nor is it the fans'. This is like the owner of a major corporation finding out that the manager of his Dallas affiliate has been embezzling money from the central till and, instead of firing that manager, he comes home and tries to empty his kid's piggy bank to make up for the loss. If the owners ram through the CBA that they want, the league will cannibalize itself within 10 years, and it will look exactly like Major League Baseball. If they let Jerry Jones turn the Cowboys into the Yankees, then Clark Hunt can fully expect his team to turn into the Royals, and Dan Rooney can expect the Steelers to turn into the Pirates, etc. etc.

Umm Tom...I think the point he was trying to make was that if the CBA goes away, and with it the salary cap, then big-market teams like Redskins and Cowboys will be able to vastly outspend teams like the Packers and Chiefs and create a baseball-like situation. I don't see anything dishonest about that. In fact, without a CBA, the players would just sue the owners for collusion if they even TRIED to control their spending by trying to stick to a voluntary cap.

Now if you want to flay them over the stadiums, have at it. I'm in full agreement on that one.

[T0mShane]

Umm Tom...I think the point he was trying to make was that if the CBA goes away, and with it the salary cap, then big-market teams like Redskins and Cowboys will be able to vastly outspend teams like the Packers and Chiefs and create a baseball-like situation. I don't see anything dishonest about that. In fact, without a CBA, the players would just sue the owners for collusion if they even TRIED to control their spending by trying to stick to a voluntary cap.

Now if you want to flay them over the stadiums, have at it. I'm in full agreement on that one.

There was a CBA in place that the owners opted out of and which the players have repeatedly maintained they were fine with. The players, in fact, would agree to extend that same CBA into the future, but the owners want no part of it because they want to drop the player's cut of total revenue from 53% to roughly 41%.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

There was a CBA in place that the owners opted out of and which the players have repeatedly maintained they were fine with. The players, in fact, would agree to extend that same CBA into the future, but the owners want no part of it because they want to drop the player's cut of total revenue from 53% to roughly 41%.

Fat cats gotta eat, son.

[T0mShane]

Fat cats gotta eat, son.

Which is all well and good if it would just stop sh*tting all over the carpet afterward.

[nycdan]

There was a CBA in place that the owners opted out of and which the players have repeatedly maintained they were fine with. The players, in fact, would agree to extend that same CBA into the future, but the owners want no part of it because they want to drop the player's cut of total revenue from 53% to roughly 41%.

Agreed. The owners made a bad deal. The deal expired. Now they want a different deal. No surprise any more than that the players want to keep the old one. But what he said "It's incredibly important for a team like the Kansas City Chiefs that we have a collective bargaining agreement that is good for all 32 clubs" isn't a lie. That's all I'm saying.

I mean, without a good CBA, what chance would a team like the Bills have to be successful.

[T0mShane]

Agreed. The owners made a bad deal. The deal expired. Now they want a different deal. No surprise any more than that the players want to keep the old one. But what he said "It's incredibly important for a team like the Kansas City Chiefs that we have a collective bargaining agreement that is good for all 32 clubs" isn't a lie. That's all I'm saying.

I mean, without a good CBA, what chance would a team like the Bills have to be successful.

Gotcha. The lie comes in where he attempts to panic the fanbase with threats of turning into the Royals if the players get their way. It's simply not true and it hasn't been true since Mara and Rooney forced the owners into profit-sharing fifty years ago. The only way they turn into the Royals is if the owners blow the system up, which they are clearly looking to do.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Agreed. The owners made a bad deal. The deal expired. Now they want a different deal. No surprise any more than that the players want to keep the old one. But what he said "It's incredibly important for a team like the Kansas City Chiefs that we have a collective bargaining agreement that is good for all 32 clubs" isn't a lie. That's all I'm saying.

I mean, without a good CBA, what chance would a team like the Bills have to be successful.

How do you know ? Just because they want a lot bigger piece of the pie does not mean they had a bad deal.

Its the players that made a bad deal. There are no guaranteed contracts in the NFL. Which mean in a sport of attrition any game could be your last pay check as well.

[T0mShane]

How do you know ? Just because they want a lot bigger piece of the pie does not mean they had a bad deal.

Its the players that made a bad deal. There are no guaranteed contracts in the NFL. Which mean in a sport of attrition any game could be your last pay check as well.

At the time the deal was signed, Gene Upshaw got destroyed (you may remember Bryant Gumbel's "Tagliabue's Pet" comments). It's only a bad deal now because more of the owner's cut is being spent on ill-advised stadiums/renovations and they're pissed that the players don't have to share in that expense. Their answer is to charge people $50 bucks for parking and to take money back from the players.

[JetsFanInDenver]

At the time the deal was signed, Gene Upshaw got destroyed (you may remember Bryant Gumbel's "Tagliabue's Pet" comments). It's only a bad deal now because more of the owner's cut is being spent on ill-advised stadiums/renovations and they're pissed that the players don't have to share in that expense. Their answer is to charge people $50 bucks for parking and to take money back from the players.

That's for bringing up the Bryant Gumbel;s comment. I remember the comment but could not remember who exactly said that.

I am not sure how the 'gouging everyone' business model can work forever. At some point someone in equation being gouged has to tune off and say enough is enough!

[nycdan]

At the time the deal was signed, Gene Upshaw got destroyed (you may remember Bryant Gumbel's "Tagliabue's Pet" comments). It's only a bad deal now because more of the owner's cut is being spent on ill-advised stadiums/renovations and they're pissed that the players don't have to share in that expense. Their answer is to charge people $50 bucks for parking and to take money back from the players.

Let's just call it 'their words, not mine'.

[Blackout]

NEW tactic?

[PatriotReign37]

The Royals total 2011 payroll is 36 million.

Arod will make 32 million this season. There is no way the Royals will ever see the inside of the WS unless they buy tickets to the game under this current system. The reason the small market NFL teams were able to play and win SBs is because of the CBA.

Hunt is right.

[Kentucky Jet]

The Royals total 2011 payroll is 36 million.

Arod will make 32 million this season. There is no way the Royals will ever see the inside of the WS unless they buy tickets to the game under this current system. The reason the small market NFL teams were able to play and win SBs is because of the CBA.

Hunt is right.

Then you see a team like the Tampa Rays doing well and able to compete well against the rich teams.

[T0mShane]

The Royals total 2011 payroll is 36 million.

Arod will make 32 million this season. There is no way the Royals will ever see the inside of the WS unless they buy tickets to the game under this current system. The reason the small market NFL teams were able to play and win SBs is because of the CBA.

Hunt is right.

You missed the point entirely, you Patriot honk. A CBA exists that has provided for the small markets for decades. The owners tore it up themselves. Everyone agrees that there has to be a CBA. Hunt tried to sell his fanbase on the idea that the players want to turn the NFL into MLB. That's a lie.

[Garb]

'Lemme guess. Another thread where Tom Marx...er...Shane gets on the soapbox and tells us all about the evils of capitalism, money, greed and The Man.

We get it, you hate the owners. I'm not saying the owners are right either (just in case you were going to call me a Romney honk again)...but the players aren't the innocent victims either. This is greed on greed crime...The Man against The Man, if you ask me.

[T0mShane]

'Lemme guess. Another thread where Tom Marx...er...Shane gets on the soapbox and tells us all about the evils of capitalism, money, greed and The Man.

We get it, you hate the owners. I'm not saying the owners are right either (just in case you were going to call me a Romney honk again)...but the players aren't the innocent victims either. This is greed on greed crime...The Man against The Man, if you ask me.

The players locked themselves out? BTW, there's still time to switch over to Pawlenty. He could use the help.

[Garb]

The players locked themselves out? BTW, there's still time to switch over to Pawlenty. He could use the help.

You liberal nutbag.....the players aren't playing real nice either and you know it. The real losers in this whole mess is US - the fans.

Jeebers, if I did not know any better I would think you were living in a bathroom stall at some Camridge, MA extreme left-wing-socialst-marxist-democrat "think" tank drinking tofu smoothies and wiping your a$$ with tree bark.

[Matt39]

You liberal nutbag.....the players aren't playing real nice either and you know it. The real losers in this whole mess is US - the fans.

Jeebers, if I did not know any better I would think you were living in a bathroom stall at some Camridge, MA extreme left-wing-socialst-marxist-democrat "think" tank drinking tofu smoothies and wiping your a$$ with tree bark.

This lockout has absolutely nothing to do with the political spectrum. People want it to be, but it isnt.

Tha players did nothing in this mess.

[Damaged89]

The players locked themselves out? BTW, there's still time to switch over to Pawlenty. He could use the help.

This. It's not like the players are a bunch of coal miners that deserve our sympathy for standing up to their mean old bosses, but the owners are the ones who opted out. They're the ones who are going to be responsible if the season is killed.

[T0mShane]

You liberal nutbag.....the players aren't playing real nice either and you know it. The real losers in this whole mess is US - the fans.

Jeebers, if I did not know any better I would think you were living in a bathroom stall at some Camridge, MA extreme left-wing-socialst-marxist-democrat "think" tank drinking tofu smoothies and wiping your a$$ with tree bark.

I'm a moderate. The game was back on track less than a week ago. Players were packing their bags to report. Then the owners locked them out again. Those damn players.

[Garb]

This lockout has absolutely nothing to do with the political spectrum. People want it to be, but it isnt.

Tha players did nothing in this mess.

I thought they walked away from the negotiations and decertified?

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that the sticking point is financial. The players want to see all the financials so they can get a bigger piece of cake. The owners do not want to divulge all their bookkeeping so they can keep a bigger piece of the cake. There is a stalemate. It's about the money and how it's "shared." All this other crap about player health, benefits, blah, blah, blah....I don't beleive either side when they invoke that stuff. Goodell is a monkey moron...no doubt about that. Most of the owners are greedy pp heads, no doubt about that either. But let's be real, the players aren't exactly being 100% forthright with their intent either.

[T0mShane]

I thought they walked away from the negotiations and decertified?

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that the sticking point is financial. The players want to see all the accounting so they can get a bigger piece of cake. The owners do not want to divulge all their bookkeeping so they can keep a bigger piece of the cake. There is a stalemate. It's about the money and how it's "shared." All this other crap about player health, benefits, blah, blah, blah....I don't beleive either side when they invoke that stuff. Goodell is a monkey moron...no doubt about that. Most of the owners are greedy pp heads, no doubt about that either. But let's be real, the players aren't exactly being 100% forthright with their intent either.

Garb, this is a summary of how this "negotiation" is going:

Owners: Give me back $1.85 billion dollars.

Players: Why? We just scored record profits!

Owners: Cuz I need it.

Players: What for?

Owners: None of your business. Give it to me.

Players: No.

Repeat

[Garb]

Garb, this is a summary of how this "negotiation" is going:

Owners: Give me back $1.85 billion dollars.

Players: Why? We just scored record profits!

Owners: Cuz I need it.

Players: What for?

Owners: None of your business. Give it to me.

Players: No.

Repeat

Awesome! Thank you. A simpleton like me needs that sort of explanation.

I think it's a little more complicated than that....but I get it. Why can't these groups just get together and negotiate 'till it's done? Sh*t, if the dolts in the congress and the senate can do it, surely these goofballs can. It's starting to annoy me. If I read one more human interest story (for example, did you know that the top three draft picks of the Pats were people that their coaches said "he's the type of guy I would want my daughter to marry." Yah, because that's not something the coaches were taught to say or anything....yeesh, I miss real football.

[THE ILK]

Garb should only be allowed to talk politics.

[THE ILK]

You liberal nutbag.....the players aren't playing real nice either and you know it. The real losers in this whole mess is US - the fans.

Jeebers, if I did not know any better I would think you were living in a bathroom stall at some Camridge, MA extreme left-wing-socialst-marxist-democrat "think" tank drinking tofu smoothies and wiping your a$$ with tree bark.

Post of the off season!

[THE ILK]

I wonder if I can get away with calling someone a liberal nutbag... You know with me being a Jets fan and all...

[T0mShane]

Awesome! Thank you. A simpleton like me needs that sort of explanation.

I think it's a little more complicated than that....but I get it. Why can't these groups just get together and negotiate 'till it's done? Sh*t, if the dolts in the congress and the senate can do it, surely these goofballs can. It's starting to annoy me. If I read one more human interest story (for example, did you know that the top three draft picks of the Pats were people that their coaches said "he's the type of guy I would want my daughter to marry." Yah, because that's not something the coaches were taught to say or anything....yeesh, I miss real football.

Garb-licious, this is 100% owner-driven. The courts had kicked their balls in all the way up until they found W's hand-selected 8th Circuit to give them a last minute reprieve. What do you realistically want the players to do?

[dbatesman]

Correct me if I am wrong

You are wrong, and thus far, correcting you has accomplished exactly nothing.

[T0mShane]

You are wrong, and thus far, correcting you has accomplished exactly nothing.

I lol'ed.

[Barcs]

The Chiefs lost last year because they were over rated. They only made the playoffs because they played the NFC west. There was never a doubt they'd be out early, just like the Falcons. But yeah, that statement is bull because the Jets are New York, a major market, and when's the last time they made the superbowl??? If your team will ever learn how to draft, trade, coach well and pick up decent players (Jamal Charles???) you can make a superbowl. Any given Sunday... remember? Teams should have similar salary caps, though. I agree with that, but if your team doesn't have as many supporters, how could that become a reality?

[Bleedin Green]

Garb-licious, this is 100% owner-driven. The courts had kicked their balls in all the way up until they found W's hand-selected 8th Circuit to give them a last minute reprieve. What do you realistically want the players to do?

While I get what you're saying, you're definitely taking a short-sighted view here. Granted, the owners are responsible for the past week, but both sides deserve blame for how this has gone for over a year now. Both sides are completely full of sh*t and trying to get our sympathy as they argue over the money they're gouging from us. The preferential treatment the owners got from the 8th circuit is no different than that which the players got from the judge, who everyone knew was ruling in favor of the players before the case was even heard, and even went out of the way to try to write an appeal-proof ruling.

Frankly, both sides need to shut the **** up and work on a new deal ASAP. Nothing else is going to solve this.

[Garb]

You are wrong, and thus far, correcting you has accomplished exactly nothing.

Yeah! One of the resident MENSA member has chimed in! Waiting for the other two, Aten and Rutgers.....

[JohnnyHector]

Yeah! One of the resident MENSA member has chimed in! Waiting for the other two, Aten and Rutgers.....

Perhaps you should start a new organization that seeks to unite the best and brightest in the areas of illogical thought and omniscience in the absence of fact.... you can call it WOMENSA.

[Garb]

Perhaps you should start a new organization that seeks to unite the best and brightest in the areas of illogical thought and omniscience in the absence of fact.... you can call it WOMENSA.

...or the Jetnation Baseball Forum.