I Really Hope it was All Schottenheimer's Fault

[Smashmouth]

This year will be yet another interesting experiment in this arguement. Anyone think Brees falls apart without Payton?

I don't

Your Right Brees will not fall apart withput Payton because hes been in the same system for so long and with very little turn over in talent. Hes used to the guys he plays with which is extremely important to a QB and Brees will still run that offense to perfection.

What Im wondering is if they will have any defensive players to take the field when Goody gets done with them

[Smashmouth]

Got ya, I just don't seethe guy as a hard worker. He didn't look like it in ard Knocks and are rookie QB's that work hard really off doing multiple GQ shoots season 1. Everytime they show the guy on the sideline mid game he's lounging around, meanwhile there's mutliple shots per game of Brady/Brees/Manning looking at film. Guy just seems like a spoiled, entillted laid back calirfornia douche.. none of these qualities indicate hard worker to me

Please dont use the GQ shoots do you have times and dates as to when they happened ? Do you think they happened during team activities ? do you think he left practice to go do the shoot ? this is silly talk.

[rillo]

Somebody should ask Chad Henne about Sparano's awesome nurturing skills as far as fixing struggling young QBs goes. It's a boneheaded, short-sighted, good ol' boys hire that has almost no chance of working. Bill Callahan has lorded over some dominant rushing attacks in his career and couldn't squeeze anything out of this group last year and the talent level has actually gotten worse. Are defenses afraid of Jeremy Kerley beating them deep? Chaz Schilens? Right. I'm loading up to watch a bunch of 24 carry/74 yard games for Shonn Greene until Sparano and Rex decide it's all Sanchez's fault that the ball isn't moving and we get the start of the Tebow Era. Week Four, tops.

Idk if your being sarcastic but this is exactly what I'm expecting. I've watched phins under sparano and there was nothing "down field" about his team. It was running the ball and FG's, they did just enough to either win by a FG or lose by a point or two. They rarely took shots down field, they blamed Dan henning (*sp) so they fired him but it was more of the same until they fired sparano. Besides the tebow move hiring sparano was an even more of a ridiculous move IMO.

Get your popcorn ready guys!

[SenorGato]

Except Schotty worked out and hand-selected both Kellen Clemens and Mark Sanchez and proceeded to not develop either of them. You could fire him for that alone.

Hand selected the distant 4th QB in the 2nd round of a draft....While I'm sure they had their hopes for Clemens but the deck was always stacked against him being a franchise QB. We just had no depth after Pennigton, unless you're into Brooks Bollinger. He squeezed four wins out of what, 8 Clemens starts? That ain't bad.

Sanchez....well we disagree on the level of bust Sanchez is. He's been disappointing but hardly finished. It's not like Sanchez was not a first rounder on everyone else's board.

[RutgersJetFan]

schotty was a scapegoat, period. The difference between a good OC and a bad OC is in the mind of the fan.

I concur, that red zone sequence at the end of the Pittsburgh game, totally all in our heads. Kind of like Eternal Sunshine, but REVERSED.

Mind = Blown.

[RutgersJetFan]

He squeezed four wins out of what, 8 Clemens starts? That ain't bad.

This is a fantastic measure for success.

[CTM]

There is more going on with the in game stuff then we know. It's not like any of the other QBs have their own printers. The coaches don't go over the film with him. That's not cause Shotty is an idiot either. Obviously my biases lead me to believe he just doesn't have a clue what he's looking at, but it's not as simple as lazy. Coaches would never allow that in game.

My perception is guys like Brees seek it out looking for every little edge.. I know guys like that, I used to be like that ..lol

[CTM]

Please dont use the GQ shoots do you have times and dates as to when they happened ? Do you think they happened during team activities ? do you think he left practice to go do the shoot ? this is silly talk.

I don't think so, people that are great at something don't have time to prance around like a homo while some dude follows them around with a camera... They work constantly... Especially when young, and still hungry for success...

[Bleedin Green]

My perception is guys like Brees seek it out looking for every little edge.. I know guys like that, I used to be like that ..lol

Now you're just a lazy bastard who spends half his work day on a Jets message board.

I hate guys like that.

[CTM]

Now you're just a lazy bastard who spends half his work day on a Jets message board.

I hate guys like that.

Exactly.. But that was after I acheived success in my field. When I was younger and first starting out, I was working 70 hrs a week , then going home and reading/practicing as much as I could. I basically had no life outside of my work

[RutgersJetFan]

Exactly.. But that was after I acheived success in my field. When I was younger and first starting out, I was working 70 hrs a week...

This is dude code for "before I got suckered into marriage."

[Smashmouth]

Now you're just a lazy bastard who spends half his work day on a Jets message board.

I hate guys like that.

Exactly.. But that was after I acheived success in my field. When I was younger and first starting out, I was working 70 hrs a week , then going home and reading/practicing as much as I could. I basically had no life outside of my work

you know whats funny I worked my a$$ off as well early on and worked my way up to a high level in Commercial Printing now that the indiustry is in the sh*tter so am I .

Either way Chan I dont think Sanchez is not putting in the time and I do not view him as stupid and lazy as some would say. I think we see a different QB in the comming years. The talent is there I just think it needs to click mentally for the kid and Im not talking play book smarts Im talking reading defenses and becoming comfortable in an offense. At times he just did not seem comfortable and he looked confused I dont blame that on him I blame that on Shotty and the coaches. I think Sparano will have a totally different influence on him and I think Sparano will adjust to his team. One thing I hated about Shotty is he would go into games with a game plan and if it failed we were pretty much doomed. The Ravens game comes to mind when it was obvious we could not stop them due to offensive line issues no adjustments were made and it was like we threw Sanchez to the lions. I dont think Sparano would let that happen. That game IMO was the End of Shotty and he should have been let go that Monday.

[REAMDE]

Schotty got another job in 5 minutes cause he's a competent coach.

Who cares what the Jets, Bills, Dolphins, Lions, Buccaneers, and Rams think about Schottenheimer's ability to be a successful offensive coordinator in the NFL? Don't you remember that one time we ran a play and it didn't work?

[RutgersJetFan]

Who cares what the Jets, Bills, Dolphins, Lions, Buccaneers, and Rams think about Schottenheimer's ability to be a successful offensive coordinator in the NFL?

Exactly. Because if there's one thing we know, it's that the Jets, Bills, Dolphins, Lions, Buccaneers, and Rams all know their sh*t when it comes to coaches.

[REAMDE]

Exactly. Because if there's one thing we know, it's that the Jets, Bills, Dolphins, Lions, Buccaneers, and Rams all know their sh*t when it comes to coaches.

Is the fact that these are not generally good teams your best counter to the argument that actual NFL decisionmaking is better evidence on this point than buzzwords misemployed by cretins?

[Bleedin Green]

Who cares what the Jets, Bills, Dolphins, Lions, Buccaneers, and Rams think about Schottenheimer's ability to be a successful offensive coordinator in the NFL? Don't you remember that one time we ran a play and it didn't work?

Considering the Jets fired him and none of the Bills, Dolphins, Lions or Buccs hired him, what exactly is there to suggest that any of those teams outside of the Rams think he's any good? Despite bit's revisionist history, the truth is Schotty was unemployed for weeks, during that time being shot down by team after team, even to the point where he wasn't even being granted interviews for positions he reportedly was actively going after (e.g., Falcons OC). There's not a whole lot of evidence out there to suggest he's particularly well thought of in the NFL these days.

[RutgersJetFan]

Is the fact that these are not generally good teams your best counter to the argument that actual NFL decisionmaking is better evidence on this point than buzzwords misemployed by cretins?

:hugz:

[REAMDE]

Considering the Jets fired him and none of the Bills, Dolphins, Lions or Buccs hired him, what exactly is there to suggest that any of those teams outside of the Rams think he's any good? Despite bit's revisionist history, the truth is Schotty was unemployed for weeks, during that time being shot down by team after team, even to the point where he wasn't even being granted interviews for positions he reportedly was actively going after (e.g., Falcons OC). There's not a whole lot of evidence out there to suggest he's particularly well thought of in the NFL these days.

It would have been sort of difficult for the Bills, Lions, or Bucs to have hired him given that he turned down the Buffalo interview and the Jets blocked the other two.

[slats]

Except Schotty worked out and hand-selected both Kellen Clemens and Mark Sanchez and proceeded to not develop either of them. You could fire him for that alone.

this

[Bleedin Green]

It would have been sort of difficult for the Bills, Lions, or Bucs to have hired him given that he turned down the Buffalo interview and the Jets blocked the other two.

That sounds great and all, except for the fact that in the many years that have gone by since those events, we saw Schotty get to the point where he was shot down for some jobs, while rejected the opportunity to even interview for others before finally landing a spot with one of the league's worst teams. It's hardly proof positive that he's all that highly regarded around the league.

[bitonti]

It's hardly proof positive that he's all that highly regarded around the league.

hes more highly regarded than Sparano

everyone was so focused on getting rid of Schotty, but no one put any thought into who his replacement would be... sparano is an OL coach known for the wildcat. is that really an upgrade?

[ZachEY]

hes more highly regarded than Sparano

everyone was so focused on getting rid of Schotty, but no one put any thought into who his replacement would be... sparano is an OL coach known for the wildcat. is that really an upgrade?

Upgrade or not, something had to be done. Schotty 1st. Then Sanchez and Tanny. This team is getting a restart.

[Smashmouth]

hes more highly regarded than Sparano

everyone was so focused on getting rid of Schotty, but no one put any thought into who his replacement would be... sparano is an OL coach known for the wildcat. is that really an upgrade?

How is he more highly regarded than Sparano ? What exactly has Brian Shottenheimer Accomplished other than being Martys son ?

[RutgersJetFan]

Upgrade or not, something had to be done. Schotty 1st. Then Sanchez and Tanny. This team is getting a restart.

So if those two get jobs shortly after they're given the boot, will that be proof of their super awesomeness?

And lesbihonest, we all know whose fault this really is; God's. And you can't fire him.

[REAMDE]

That sounds great and all, except for the fact that in the many years that have gone by since those events, we saw Schotty get to the point where he was shot down for some jobs, while rejected the opportunity to even interview for others before finally landing a spot with one of the league's worst teams. It's hardly proof positive that he's all that highly regarded around the league.

It's enough for me that there's sufficient information for anyone who isn't sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling LALALA to conclude that Brian Schottenheimer is more highly regarded by people who actually know what an offense is than he is by those who don't. Proof positive contra something everybody's mind is already made up on is a pointless standard to try to meet.

[bitonti]

How is he more highly regarded than Sparano ? What exactly has Brian Shottenheimer Accomplished other than being Martys son ?

sparano was canned before Thanksgiving and was out of work for months. Schotty was out of work for about a week.

[RutgersJetFan]

It's enough for me that there's sufficient information for anyone who isn't sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling LALALA to conclude that Brian Schottenheimer is more highly regarded by people who actually know what an offense is than he is by those who don't. Proof positive contra something everybody's mind is already made up on is a pointless standard to try to meet.

Mangini was hired right away. KC was dying to steal Herm away faster than you can say Yo MTV Raps. Being regarded by people who aren't really good at what they do doesn't say much.

[bitonti]

how about the fact they wanted Todd Haley to be the passing guru? Sparano can only be trusted to run the running part of the offense? Not exactly a ringing endorsement. say what you will about Schotty, at least he understood the passing game.

[Bleedin Green]

It's enough for me that there's sufficient information for anyone who isn't sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling LALALA to conclude that Brian Schottenheimer is more highly regarded by people who actually know what an offense is than he is by those who don't. Proof positive contra something everybody's mind is already made up on is a pointless standard to try to meet.

Except for the fact that you're exactly the one doing that, considering you're ignoring evidence from 2 months ago in favor of conjecture from many years ago.

[REAMDE]

Mangini was hired right away. KC was dying to steal Herm away faster than you can say Yo MTV Raps.

Getting rid of Herm didn't fix anything. Getting rid of Mangini didn't fix anything. Why do you think this is a good argument for you?

[RutgersJetFan]

say what you will about Schotty, at least he understood the passing game.

He never had one passing offense in the top 10, and I think only 1 in 6 seasons broke the top-15. But hey, evaluating a guy based on 6 years' worth of results is just gobbledygook talk anyways.

[RutgersJetFan]

Getting rid of Mangini didn't fix anything.

Wha??

[Bleedin Green]

how about the fact they wanted Todd Haley to be the passing guru? Sparano can only be trusted to run the running part of the offense? Not exactly a ringing endorsement. say what you will about Schotty, at least he understood the passing game.

So just to be clear, the fact that there were rumors of the Jets considering doing something they actually never made an effort to do is more hard evidence than a coach who actually had his coaching responsibilities stripped from him during his time with this very same team and handed to one of the position coaches? Or does the fact that Callahan was given the duties of "running game coordinator" suddenly not count? The fact that the he was removed from the part of the offense that had the most success during his tenure, while the passing game he was running and supposedly "understood" was a constant failure doesn't really do a whole lot to support your stance there.

Besides, even if Sparano does end up being a crappy OC, that in no way makes Schotty any less awful than he has repeatedly proven to be.

[Bleedin Green]

Getting rid of Herm didn't fix anything. Getting rid of Mangini didn't fix anything. Why do you think this is a good argument for you?

LOL.

Wow.

[bitonti]

He never had one passing offense in the top 10, and I think only 1 in 6 seasons broke the top-15. But hey, evaluating a guy based on 6 years' worth of results is just gobbledygook talk anyways.

compare his results to Sparanos