JustInFudge Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I am a Kevin White fan. He ran a full tree at West Virginia, has good game speed in addition to his straight line speed, he has good technique running routes and does a good job with coverage recognition. And he didn't just kill the 40 he also killed the bench too. Is that accurate? Honestly asking, anytime I watched them it was nothing but swings and screens but I cant say I watched a ton of WVU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think he has the highest ceiling out of all the wideouts. I pray we can find a way to trade back. Highest ceiling? Maybe. Biggest bust potential? definitely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I am a Kevin White fan. He ran a full tree at West Virginia, has good game speed in addition to his straight line speed, he has good technique running routes and does a good job with coverage recognition. And he didn't just kill the 40 he also killed the bench too. He's gonna be a star in my opinion, and he told mutual friends of mine that the Jets are #1 on his list. His high school would be about an hour and 15 minutes away from MetLife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Highest ceiling? Maybe. Biggest bust potential? definitely I'd have to agree with that. Is Cooper the type of wideout that can catch those 50-50 balls? I'm not a college guru, but I did not see that throughout the Alabama games. I think Kevin White has the speed, the size. and the hands to get those 50-50 deep balls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealeb319 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Really? When was the last time that program produced a single NFL player worth a sh*t? Its like everyone out of that system is a full on bust. Is he more dynamic than Tavon Austin? They all put up insane #'s and suck in the pros. Mainly because they dont learn how to play WR properly. Bailey, Austin, Devine, Henry, Slaton...the list goes on. Pat White and Geno Smith...its pathetic. He scares the sh*t out of me. 1 year wonder who blew the combine away. idk - I think he's got the biggest bust potential of all the WR's. Didn't Hill come from the same program as Calvin Johnson? Can't judge a book by the college he attended. I would prefer Fowler or Beasley with #6, I would take Cooper over White but I also think White can be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Is that accurate? Honestly asking, anytime I watched them it was nothing but swings and screens but I cant say I watched a ton of WVU. He ran all the routes his last season. He didn't the year before and I don't know what he did in community college Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 With Randy Gregory not a consideration at six, if Cooper is there I can see several teams - Cleveland escpecially - being interested. Jets could get the 12th pick and take Trae Waynes and have two selections in the second round. I doubt the Browns give the Jets 12 and 19 for the six, but they would give a second rounder. Cooper is not blazing fast and drops passes. He is not a game breaker. Yup, let's invest 40 million on cornerbacks AND tailor what we do with the sixth overall pick for a CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I'd have to agree with that. Is Cooper the type of wideout that can catch those 50-50 balls? I'm not a college guru, but I did not see that throughout the Alabama games. I think Kevin White has the speed, the size. and the hands to get those 50-50 deep balls What the hell is a 50-50 deep ball? And why is my QB throwing them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I'd have to agree with that. Is Cooper the type of wideout that can catch those 50-50 balls? I'm not a college guru, but I did not see that throughout the Alabama games. I think Kevin White has the speed, the size. and the hands to get those 50-50 deep balls Yes, Cooper and get the 50-50 balls. Didn't Hill come from the same program as Calvin Johnson? Can't judge a book by the college he attended. I would prefer Fowler or Beasley with #6, I would take Cooper over White but I also think White can be great. The Hill comparison is bad considering he had like 40 career receptions and sucked and it was clear as day Calvin was the best WR prospect in 20 years. But that program also produced Demaryius Thomas. He ran all the routes his last season. He didn't the year before and I don't know what he did in community college Gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 What the hell is a 50-50 deep ball? And why is my QB throwing them? It's a deep ball where the WR and CB are both fighting for the ball right before the ball drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 It's a deep ball where the WR and CB are both fighting for the ball right before the ball drops. Yeah, all the great offenses are built on those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Yeah, all the great offenses are built on those. You honestly have never seen a QB throw up a 50-50 ball at 1on1 coverage? Do you ever watch the Lions? Did you miss the playoffs? The Dez catch? Its a very common play in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Am I the only one scared sh*tless of Kevin White? I don't know; do you owe him money or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think he has the highest ceiling out of all the wideouts. I pray we can find a way to trade back. DGB says hello . From a ceililng stand point they might be 1a and 1b. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 You honestly have never seen a QB throw up a 50-50 ball at 1on1 coverage? Do you ever watch the Lions? Did you miss the playoffs? The Dez catch? Its a very common play in the NFL. I'm not passing on a guy that gets open consistently, runs great routes on a play to play basis all game, has great run after the catch ability because of a fifty fifty pass. I'm not passing on Reggie Wayne, Steve Smith etc so I can throw the ball up for grabs down the field every now and then. Wait, you're being facetious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I'm not passing on a guy that gets open consistently, runs great routes on a play to play basis all game, has great run after the catch ability because of a fifty fifty pass. I'm not passing on Reggie Wayne, Steve Smith etc so I can throw the ball up for grabs down the field every now and then. Pretty sure it was an addition too...but whatevs. Steve Smith for a small guy is one of the best I've ever seen at fighting for a 50-50 ball.FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Pretty sure it was an addition too...but whatevs. Steve Smith for a small guy is one of the best I've ever seen at fighting for a 50-50 ball.FWIW What percentage of his catches were these mythical 50 - 50 balls? Is that what made him the receiver he was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 What percentage of his catches were these mythical 50 - 50 balls? Is that what made him the receiver he was? Wow. Relax. Pretty sure thats not the only criteria anyone is basing the prospects on. Its in addition to the rest. Its nice to have a guy who go get it when necessary. And how are they mythical? They happen just about every single game. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Pretty sure it was an addition too...but whatevs. Steve Smith for a small guy is one of the best I've ever seen at fighting for a 50-50 ball.FWIW Yes. Got to see a lot of him here in Baltimore and guy plays bigger than big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Wow. Relax. Pretty sure thats not the only criteria anyone is basing the prospects on. Its in addition to the rest. Its nice to have a guy who go get it when necessary. And how are they mythical? They happen just about every single game. lol Mythical as in they've been raised to epic proportion in a very short time. If you're basing your evaluation of one player over another because of the one time in a game your QB is throwing the ball up for grabs, you're an idiot. I'm taking the guy that gets open and gets you down the field and you don't have to make those kind of throws. You bring up the Dallas game like the circumstances surrounding Romo's decision to make a desperate play like that doesn't matter. You know what, maybe if Dez had gotten open a little more during the game he wouldn't HAVE to make that kind of play at the very end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmnj Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 jets history sadly will repeat itself-when faced with a cant miss guy they look elsewhere-Marino and Sapp now Cooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Mythical as in they've been raised to epic proportion in a very short time. If you're basing your evaluation of one player over another because of the one time in a game your QB is throwing the ball up for grabs, you're an idiot. I'm taking the guy that gets open and gets you down the field and you don't have to make those kind of throws. You bring up the Dallas game like the circumstances surrounding Romo's decision to make a desperate play like that doesn't matter. You know what, maybe if Dez had gotten open a little more during the game he wouldn't HAVE to make that kind of play at the very end. It is not just about going up for grabs, it is also being able to catch the ball at it's highest point and also be able to out physical the defensive back and even when being covered having the ability to make the catch. If you don't think that matters, look at Marshall, Bryant, Boldin, Larry Fitz the list goes on and on. That is an ability that White has that I have yet to see Cooper demonstrate. Sure he runs better routes no doubt and I am not downplaying that, but route running can be taught; being about to physically dominate your opponent, not so much. In the NFL, where the rules favor the receiver that is huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 It is not just about going up for grabs, it is also being able to catch the ball at it's highest point and also be able to out physical the defensive back and even when being covered having the ability to make the catch. If you don't think that matters, look at Marshall, Bryant, Boldin, Larry Fitz the list goes on and on. That's a different thing to me. Because first of all, I've never even heard the expression until recently and I'm reasonably sure there have been physical receivers before 2013. If we're saying that Cooper is not a physical receiver then that is a different thing as well. Cut the 50 50 sh*t and call it what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 That's a different thing to me. Because first of all, I've never even heard the expression until recently. If we're saying that Cooper is not a physical receiver then that is a different thing as well. Cut the 50 50 sh*t and call it what it is. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirorob Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Take the great prospect when you can. Get a player that has a good chance of being a stalwart for your team for ten years. Do not water your draft down with three maybes, when you have a probably. See, I used to agree with that. But look at the bust rate on players. Mo Wilk and Revis are 2 of the best players on the team. Neither was drafted top 10. Just go with the board, if you have Cooper rated that high, and he's there, take him. If you don't, and you can trade down, trade down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Mythical as in they've been raised to epic proportion in a very short time. If you're basing your evaluation of one player over another because of the one time in a game your QB is throwing the ball up for grabs, you're an idiot. I'm taking the guy that gets open and gets you down the field and you don't have to make those kind of throws. You bring up the Dallas game like the circumstances surrounding Romo's decision to make a desperate play like that doesn't matter. You know what, maybe if Dez had gotten open a little more during the game he wouldn't HAVE to make that kind of play at the very end. Nobody is doing that but acting like QB's dont throw the ball up for grabs when they see 1on1 coverage is almost like admitting you dont watch Football. Literally every single game you watch, you see it and its always backed by a "when you see 1on1 coverage, you just have to trust your WR go make the play". Not everyone is wide open every single play. lol Is it the end all be all in a player evaluation?, absolutely not...but possessing that ability is huge bonus. Whether its a 1on1, redzone or desperation type situation...etc....its relevant. It's crazy to say its not. QB's look for 1on1 coverage and look to take advantage of it. Having a WR that you can trust to just go make the play (Dez, Calvin, Green, Jones, etc) which is what you're hoping to get at 6...its a huge advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Nobody is doing that but acting like QB's dont throw the ball up for grabs when they see 1on1 coverage is almost like admitting you dont watch Football. Literally every single game you watch, you see it and its always backed by a "when you see 1on1 coverage, you just have to trust your WR go make the play". Not everyone is wide open every single play. lol Is it the end all be all in a player evaluation?, absolutely not...but possessing that ability is huge bonus. Whether its a 1on1, redzone or desperation type situation...etc....its relevant. It's crazy to say its not. QB's look for 1on1 coverage and look to take advantage of it. Having a WR that you can trust to just go make the play (Dez, Calvin, Green, Jones, etc) which is what you're hoping to get at 6...its a huge advantage. Yup, Bill Belicick sits in on player evaluations and uses the phrase 50-50 ball all the time. LMAO Try to wrap your head around Belicick sitting in on a film session and going, "Yeah, love this guy, he really gets those 50-50 balls." And of course what I was saying was that guys are either wide open or its a 50-50 ball. LOL yourself. I didn't say it's not relevant, I'm just saying it's not as important as it's become since it's gotten a catchy name. Second, there are mitigating circumstances on plays. You better stop calling them 50-50 balls because if you think both the receiver AND the CB both have an equal chance to make a play on the ball, well that's like admitting you don't watch football or understand how momentum, positioning, and the human body works. LMAO If these plays are as prevalent and important as you say they are there is just no way that a guy that doesn't do this well would ever be considered the top rated WR prospect in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 See, I used to agree with that. But look at the bust rate on players. Mo Wilk and Revis are 2 of the best players on the team. Neither was drafted top 10. Just go with the board, if you have Cooper rated that high, and he's there, take him. If you don't, and you can trade down, trade down. I wholeheartedly agree. I think that is exactly what MacCags is going to do. You gotta be careful about falling in love with a given player. History has shown over and over again that top 10 or even 1st round doesn't always translate to the best players (at their position) when they get to the next level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I'm still convinced Mariota falls into the teens. The top ten will go haywire if Dupree and White go in the top five, then the Jets and Bears picks become hot commodities for trade opportunities. I want to see if the Browns take another pass at Bradford, and I'm interested to see what happens with the OTs like Peat, Humphries, and Scherff. I find it hard to believe those guys fall out of the top 15. I can't see that happening at all. This is a quarterback driven league and someone will take him even if they have a qb and let him watch and learn for a year or two. Most likely scenario is if he is there at 6 we are drafting him or seeking to trade pick to a team who will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Yup, Bill Belicick sits in on player evaluations and uses the phrase 50-50 ball all the time. LMAO Try to wrap your head around Belicick sitting in on a film session and going, "Yeah, love this guy, he really gets those 50-50 balls." Second, there are mitigating circumstances on plays. You better stop calling them 50-50 balls because if you think both the receiver AND the CB both have an equal chance to make a play on the ball, well that's like admitting you don't watch football or understand how momentum, positioning, and the human body works. LMAO If these plays are as prevalent and important as you say they are there is just no way that a guy that doesn't do this well would ever be considered the top rated WR prospect in football. And of course what I was saying that guys are either wide open or its a 50-50 ball. LOL yourself. Are you purposely ignoring the fact I'm acknowledging its not what you base an evaluation off of and that it's just an additional nice to have skill set? And BBs track record of drafting WRs is atrocious. So maybe he should incorporate into his evaluation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Are you purposely ignoring the fact I'm acknowledging its not what you base an evaluation off of and that it's just an additional nice to have skill set? And BBs track record of drafting WRs is atrocious. So maybe he should incorporate into his evaluation? I think the issue I have is with the terminology. It indicates that the QB is closing his eyes and hoping for the best while the receiver and cornerback have an equal chance at the ball. But for the record, my first post indicated that I would not pass on a guy because he's not good at that if he is absolutely great at other things like running routes, catching the football, running after the catch. Did you purposely ignore that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 DGB says hello . From a ceililng stand point they might be 1a and 1b. I have to give you that, but I feel like the safer pick would be white. I highly doubt DGB will be there in the 2nd round for us. I think he's going to go anywhere from 15-31. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think the issue I have is with the terminology. It indicates that the QB is closing his eyes and hoping for the best while the receiver and cornerback have an equal chance at the ball. But for the record, my first post indicated that I would not pass on a guy because he's not good at that if he is absolutely great at other things like running routes, catching the football, running after the catch. Did you purposely ignore that? No, I told you nobody has said different numerous times. It's in addition to the rest. If we are taking someone at 6 I sure hope they display all the other stuff that really matters which you mentioned. However, being able to win those jump ball scenarios is a nice to have skill set. And I don't think it indicates that the QB is closing his eyes and hoping for the best. I see it as he recognizes he has 1on1 coverage and that he trusts his guy to make the play (especially if we're taking said player at 6). 50/50, jump ball, go make a play, beat your man for the ball - is there a difference? Not to me but I can get where you're coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raideraholic Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 He sounds perfect for the Raiders. In the vein of Hayward-Bey and others he is just what the doctor ordered for Oakland.Jmo if Raiders pick a Wr , it will be Amari Cooper( ready to contribute from day one) . Better fit , and complements the Receivers they have on roster already. Now there is no guarantee that the Raiders aren't going defense with their first pick.( pass rusher). Jack Delrio is a defense coach, and those coaches tend to want to pick that stud defensive player first. Also Reggie Mckenize with the Packers, never drafted a Wr in the first round. Not to mention a lot of Wr talent in this draft that you can get a pretty good one in the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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