Ghost Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Jmo if Raiders pick a Wr , it will be Amari Cooper( ready to contribute from day one) . Better fit , and complements the Receivers they have on roster already. Now there is no guarantee that the Raiders aren't going defense with their first pick.( pass rusher). Jack Delrio is a defense coach, and those coaches tend to want to pick that stud defensive player first. Also Reggie Mckenize with the Packers, never drafted a Wr in the first round. Not to mention a lot of Wr talent in this draft that you can get a pretty good one in the second. I'd go with White or Cooper based on who fits better in the system. LB in the 2nd round is something I would like the Jets to consider. I feel like the transition of a LB from college to pro is not as difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 No, I told you nobody has said different numerous times. It's in addition to the rest. If we are taking someone at 6 I sure hope they display all the other stuff that really matters which you mentioned. However, being able to win those jump ball scenarios is a nice to have skill set. And I don't think it indicates that the QB is closing his eyes and hoping for the best. I see it as he recognizes he has 1on1 coverage and that he trusts his guy to make the play (especially if we're taking said player at 6). 50/50, jump ball, go make a play, beat your man for the ball - is there a difference? Not to me but I can get where you're coming from. Well that's the whole thing, I don't think you'd be stumping for Cooper if it were all that important, unless you thought he was underrated at that skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I heard when you throw it to Cooper it becomes a 2-98 ball because he's like whoa no way am I jumping for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Cooper/Dupree/Rivers or bust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Nobody is doing that but acting like QB's dont throw the ball up for grabs when they see 1on1 coverage is almost like admitting you dont watch Football. Literally every single game you watch, you see it and its always backed by a "when you see 1on1 coverage, you just have to trust your WR go make the play". Not everyone is wide open every single play. lol Is it the end all be all in a player evaluation?, absolutely not...but possessing that ability is huge bonus. Whether its a 1on1, redzone or desperation type situation...etc....its relevant. It's crazy to say its not. QB's look for 1on1 coverage and look to take advantage of it. Having a WR that you can trust to just go make the play (Dez, Calvin, Green, Jones, etc) which is what you're hoping to get at 6...its a huge advantage. 100% agreed on this one. There are a number of nfl QB's who are thought to be very good who have really benefited from their receivers making them look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 It all comes down to your definition of a 'potential franchise QB' If you take Mariota and he becomes blaine gabbert and you passed up on white who becomes julio jones or an olb who becomes aldon smith.... This is where the scouting comes in. What are his odds of becoming a franchise guy? If the front office thinks 'very good' then go for it. If they think 'well maybe...if everything goes right' then you don't draft him. Yep. Here's another way of looking at it: Had Seattle traded up from #12 to #6-8 to draft Ryan Tannehill (instead of trading down to #15 to take Bruce Irvin) they wouldn't have also drafted Russell Wilson in round 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Your QB throws the ball 37 times a game. Make 18 of those 50 50 balls, 30-60 yards down the field. Complete half of them. Boom, one quarter of your passes average say 45 yards per completion. Congrats, you've just solved football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Yeah, all the great offenses are built on those. Dude, 75% of Staffords throws are 50/50 to Megatron running a streak or fade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Dude, 75% of Staffords throws are 50/50 to Megatron running a streak or fade. Wanna bet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Dude, 75% of Staffords throws are 50/50 to Megatron running a streak or fade. In terms of frequency of passes >15 yards from the LOS Stafford wasn't statistically that far off from Brandon Carr, who seemed to dump off every pass. It was about 19% of each one's pass attempts. In that one year where Megatron had like 2000 receiving yards, by the numbers he threw a lower percentage of these "deep" passes than game-manager Russell Wilson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 In terms of frequency of passes >15 yards from the LOS Stafford wasn't statistically that far off from Brandon Carr, who seemed to dump off every pass. It was about 19% of each one's pass attempts. In that one year where Megatron had like 2000 receiving yards, by the numbers he threw a lower percentage of these "deep" passes than game-manager Russell Wilson. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snb5jhNFcw8 Watch the link above. It is Calvin Johnson's highlights from the 2013-2014 season. It includes 57 separate catches, some repeated more than once in replay. Out of those 57 catches that were deemed highlight worthy, 4 are what you can reasonably call 50-50 passes. Four. Quattro. And this is the king of the 50-50 ball, right? Guy caught 84 passes that year. Are we saying that out of the other 27 passes not on the highlight reel that most of them were 50-50 balls and were just deemed not worthy of the highlight reel as opposed to the numerous ten to fifteen yard slants that made it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snb5jhNFcw8 Watch the link above. It is Calvin Johnson's highlights from the 2013-2014 season. It includes 57 separate catches, some repeated more than once in replay. Out of those 57 catches that were deemed highlight worthy, 4 are what you can reasonably call 50-50 passes. Four. Quattro. And this is the king of the 50-50 ball, right? Guy caught 84 passes that year. Are we saying that out of the other 27 passes not on the highlight reel that most of them were 50-50 balls and were just deemed not worthy of the highlight reel as opposed to the numerous ten to fifteen yard slants that made it? I'm just going by the numbers. Even half of that 75% estimate is ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I'm just going by the numbers. Even half of that 75% estimate is ludicrous. Yeah, I know. What happens is people see a wow play a few times from a player and they think it happens all the time. They forget the routine plays the guy makes 95 percent of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Your QB throws the ball 37 times a game. Make 18 of those 50 50 balls, 30-60 yards down the field. Complete half of them. Boom, one quarter of your passes average say 45 yards per completion. Congrats, you've just solved football. You're the only one taking it to this extreme. I don't see why it's so hard for you to accept that being able to go up over a defender is a nice skill to have...not the most important, not the end all be all...it's just a nice extra little something to have in a WR's arsenal. Really simple. You're making it trivial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Taking Peat at 6 is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Lol there sure is a lot of hostility here over Yosemite Sam calling one WR good at "50-50 balls" instead of calling him a "physical receiver." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 You're the only one taking it to this extreme. I don't see why it's so hard for you to accept that being able to go up over a defender is a nice skill to have...not the most important, not the end all be all...it's just a nice extra little something to have in a WR's arsenal. Really simple. You're making it trivial. Calvin Johnson himself makes 4 of those catches a year. It is trivial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Calvin Johnson himself makes 4 of those catches a year. It is trivial. And if one is for a game winner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 And if one is for a game winner? Yeah thats the problem, though, its seductive because you see it happen, its tangible, whereas a guy just being a solid receiver play in and play out is tougher to point to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Lol there sure is a lot of hostility here over Yosemite Sam calling one WR good at "50-50 balls" instead of calling him a "physical receiver." No hostility. Im a JiF fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxman Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Put me in the #CoopGroup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Lol there sure is a lot of hostility here over Yosemite Sam calling one WR good at "50-50 balls" instead of calling him a "physical receiver." I addressed this two pages ago and yet they are still going strong, lol. "It is not just about going up for grabs, it is also being able to catch the ball at it's highest point and also be able to out physical the defensive back and even when being covered having the ability to make the catch. If you don't think that matters, look at Marshall, Bryant, Boldin, Larry Fitz the list goes on and on. That is an ability that White has that I have yet to see Cooper demonstrate. Sure he runs better routes no doubt and I am not downplaying that, but route running can be taught; being about to physically dominate your opponent, not so much. In the NFL, where the rules favor the receiver that is huge." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Yeah thats the problem, though, its seductive because you see it happen, its tangible, whereas a guy just being a solid receiver play in and play out is tougher to point to. You're funny, man. I like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 You're funny, man. I like you. Ditto. JiF you said it happens all the time and then I show you how Calvin Johnson does it like four times a year with video proof and you respond with "what if it's a game winner?" That is funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Taking Peat at 6 is a good idea. What's up, EB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Ditto. JiF you said it happens all the time and then I show you how Calvin Johnson does it like four times a year with video proof and you respond with "what if it's a game winner?" That is funny. This is fun! Would you call a fade, a 50-50 ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 This is fun! Would you call a fade, a 50-50 ball? Yeah, I did. Those comprised two of the four because, you know, generosity. Watch the video. And tell me what YOU think I missed. I get it though, you said it happened all the time, like several times a game and I proved it didn't so now you're going to make a mockery of the whole argument you just lost. I would too, probably if I was as wrong as you were, I mean what other choice would I have, right? The funniest part of this so far is you asking me to define your own cliché. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Yeah, I did. Those comprised two of the four because, you know, generosity. Watch the video. And tell me what YOU think I missed. I watched the video. There were very few jump ball scenarios but that's why I asked the question. I think we see it different. I think of a 50-50 ball as one that is in the general area and they make the play on it or throw it to tight single coverage and the WR used their body to box out the defender or fighting for the ball..that type of stuff. Not necessarily just out jumping someone or going up over a defender, which is how I'm thinking you interpret it. Even still. Not that many examples on the video. Maybe 8-10 in my book. Which is why it's not a huge part of the evaluation more of just a nice to have type of thing, which is pretty much what I've been saying all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 50 50 ball battle going on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I watched the video. There were very few jump ball scenarios but that's why I asked the question. I think we see it different. I think of a 50-50 ball as one that is in the general area and they make the play on it or throw it to tight single coverage and the WR used their body to box out the defender or fighting for the ball..that type of stuff. Not necessarily just out jumping someone or going up over a defender, which is how I'm thinking you interpret it. Even still. Not that many examples on the video. Maybe 8-10 in my book. Which is why it's not a huge part of the evaluation more of just a nice to have type of thing, which is pretty much what I've been saying all along. You still want Cooper though, no? I dont watch college football very much, is he not physical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 50 50 ball battle going on here. They're just mad it is implied that stafford isn't that great. JI worshipped Stafford and I can imagine they're pretty in love with him here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 They're just mad it is implied that stafford isn't that great. JI worshipped Stafford and I can imagine they're pretty in love with him here too. JN hates literally everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 JN hates literally everyone. QFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Maybe it is just me, give me the guy who does it year after year, runs precise routes and gets open and oh is very fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 What's up, EB? Long time, Shane. Hows everything been? I rarely post anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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