Move the Pocket

[JiFtheOracle]

I know its really fun to point out how everyone sucks on the Jets - Sanchez, Greene, Hunter, Smith, Schotty, etc, etc, etc...but I thought we could talk about Oakland. You know, the game the Jets have Sunday against a team we all love to hate.

With the current stuggles at Oline and Mangold not making the trip, I think its crucial Callahan gets creative in our protection schemes. Mark likes to roll out as he throws pretty well on the run. They need to show more boot leg/roll out type plays since we have a very athletic Oline who can execute away from the LOS. I think it would be a good idea to try and move the pocket as much as possible. Oakland rotates about 4 different DT and DE's into the game. Wimberly and Seymour are having very good season and Kelly is a plug. Its unfair/unrealistic to think Colin Baxter is going to sit in there for an entire game going toe to toe with that rotation. Especially because I'd expect to see Seymour over center a lot.

With 2 solid pass catching TE's, the more we show 2 TE sets and the more we're able to move the pocket...the better. Get them gassed early. Make them move on screens and LT out of the backfield. Definitely keep Sanchez limited to 3 step drops in max protect and get the ball out quick. I'd like to see an up tempo game. I really dont want to see 5 wide sets with no RB in the backfield as a blocker. Dont have the line for that right now. If the Jets fail to protect Sanchez, this could get ugly quick.

In the run game, I'd like to see them bring Vlad as an extra TE ala Turner to get that extra push the line has been lacking. Buffalo ran all over the Raiders, they used a bunch of traps to get big holes for Jackson and he ate them alive. He's a little more versatile runner than we have but still think we need to establish the run and keep it balanced.

Holmes and Keller should have a lot of room to work with in the middle of the field. Send Plax on go routes, force them to roll a safety in coverage and open up the middle of the field. But it all falls back to protection. Mark has been on the turf way too much this season and Oakland has the right kind of front to take advantage of that. We need to counter by moving the pocket as much as possible.

[JohnnyHector]

After 10 words, I saw that this was you trying to talk serious football, so...

[JiFtheOracle]

After 10 words, I saw that this was you trying to talk serious football, so...

I know, shame on me. Thanks for contributing though.

[stoicsentry]

Sanchez is actually pretty fast, I wouldn't mind seeing him take off a little more.

If the Raiders put 4 of those big guys on the line, it's the perfect time for an HB screen to Tomlinson.

Play action has been remarkably effective for Mark this season. The splits are overwhelming. Taking your idea, would like to see some playaction rollouts this week.

[JiFtheOracle]

Sanchez is actually pretty fast, I wouldn't mind seeing him take off a little more.

If the Raiders put 4 of those big guys on the line, it's the perfect time for an HB screen to Tomlinson.

Play action has been remarkably effective for Mark this season. The splits are overwhelming. Taking your idea, would like to see some playaction rollouts this week.

Absolutely. Which is why we need to establish the run. He's pretty darn good on play actions. And he's pretty darn good on roll out plays. But most importantly, it takes a ton of pressure off the oline.

[Aten]

With the current stuggles at Oline and Mangold not making the trip, I think its crucial Callahan gets creative in our protection schemes. Mark likes to roll out as he throws pretty well on the run. They need to show more boot leg/roll out type plays since we have a very athletic Oline who can execute away from the LOS.

We already do this. A lot. Actually a very good example contra the notion that Schottenheimer is holding Sanchez back by not catering to his strengths. Our outside pocket passing frequency went from 31st in the league in 2008 to 1st in 2009. FO.

[Vicious89x]

I want to say Cimini mentioned the "Sanchez run for yards" thing was something they want to let him do more of.

[Aten]

I want to say Cimini mentioned the "Sanchez run for yards" thing was something they want to let him do more of.

Emphasis on the Cimini reported it so it's probably wrong or on the Schottenheimer said it so it's probably a bad idea anyway?

[Larz]

the way to beat the faiders is with screens screens and screens. no WR screens please shotty, we're talkin' HB screens

[JiFtheOracle]

We already do this. A lot. Actually a very good example contra the notion that Schottenheimer is holding Sanchez back by not catering to his strengths. Our outside pocket passing frequency went from 31st in the league in 2008 to 1st in 2009. FO.

Doesnt seem like they've been moving it this year. Feel like we've been trying more conventional pocket type protections and Sanchez has been trying to get the ball out fast. Seems like the only time this season he's passed outside the pocket is running from trouble. Could be wrong though.

[slats]

In the run game, I'd like to see them bring Vlad as an extra TE ala Turner to get that extra push the line has been lacking. Buffalo ran all over the Raiders, they used a bunch of traps to get big holes for Jackson and he ate them alive. He's a little more versatile runner than we have but still think we need to establish the run and keep it balanced.

Agree completely. Could be good in the short term, and will definitely pay dividends in the long term. They need to so something to get the running game going, and they also may need to replace Turner sooner than later. Be smart to get Vlad some real game experience at a time where they can really use him.

[spjets]

Be smart to get Vlad some real game experience at a time where they can really use him.

i only want to see this happen if we're up big....he scares me...

[T0mShane]

I totally agree with the OP. Vernon Gholston over Blair Thomas...by a lot.

[Il Mostro]

Agree about moving the pocket. I constantly move that big, dog-choking mutha-load of bills from one pocket to the other. Move the pocket, man.

[#27TheDominator]

Absolutely. Which is why we need to establish the run. He's pretty darn good on play actions. And he's pretty darn good on roll out plays. But most importantly, it takes a ton of pressure off the oline.

I think this is another chicken-egg thing. The Jets can't run, but play action is effective? Sounds like teams are concentrating on the run. We may not have to establish the run because teams have already been respecting it. I do like the roll outs and I like when they use them to establish Keller

i only want to see this happen if we're up big....he scares me...

I can understand be scared of using Vlad as a guard or a tackle, but how much damage could he do at TE? It's not like Keller or Cumberland are real big-time blockers.

[GreenBeans]

Rolling out Sanchez is a great idea, mostly because he has proven to be effective on the run.

In addition to this, I'd love to see the Jets go no huddle a bunch this week to really gas the Raiders front four. It's a growing trend in the NFL that makes a lot of sense for the Jets to use, especially with the offensive line not being quite right yet.

[SenorGato]

Good football post. Their front 7 is big, athletic, and stout, but their secondary is not intimidating (though somewhat talented). Make the front 7 move early to set up a run, then keep it balanced the rest of the way.

Why does this team have to go to Oakland every year btw? Or at least it feels like every year...

[Smashmouth]

I know its really fun to point out how everyone sucks on the Jets - Sanchez, Greene, Hunter, Smith, Schotty, etc, etc, etc...but I thought we could talk about Oakland. You know, the game the Jets have Sunday against a team we all love to hate.

With the current stuggles at Oline and Mangold not making the trip, I think its crucial Callahan gets creative in our protection schemes. Mark likes to roll out as he throws pretty well on the run. They need to show more boot leg/roll out type plays since we have a very athletic Oline who can execute away from the LOS. I think it would be a good idea to try and move the pocket as much as possible. Oakland rotates about 4 different DT and DE's into the game. Wimberly and Seymour are having very good season and Kelly is a plug. Its unfair/unrealistic to think Colin Baxter is going to sit in there for an entire game going toe to toe with that rotation. Especially because I'd expect to see Seymour over center a lot.

With 2 solid pass catching TE's, the more we show 2 TE sets and the more we're able to move the pocket...the better. Get them gassed early. Make them move on screens and LT out of the backfield. Definitely keep Sanchez limited to 3 step drops in max protect and get the ball out quick. I'd like to see an up tempo game. I really dont want to see 5 wide sets with no RB in the backfield as a blocker. Dont have the line for that right now. If the Jets fail to protect Sanchez, this could get ugly quick.

In the run game, I'd like to see them bring Vlad as an extra TE ala Turner to get that extra push the line has been lacking. Buffalo ran all over the Raiders, they used a bunch of traps to get big holes for Jackson and he ate them alive. He's a little more versatile runner than we have but still think we need to establish the run and keep it balanced.

Holmes and Keller should have a lot of room to work with in the middle of the field. Send Plax on go routes, force them to roll a safety in coverage and open up the middle of the field. But it all falls back to protection. Mark has been on the turf way too much this season and Oakland has the right kind of front to take advantage of that. We need to counter by moving the pocket as much as possible.

Agreed . The Jets should have more designed roll outs for Sanchez which could even open up some screens to the opposite side. Hes an athletic guy who throws good on the run, the more we mix into our vanilla offense the better.

[slats]

I like roll outs, too, but you have to remember that they take away a good portion of the field for throwing the ball. So all the coverage can roll to the same side of the field and concentrate in there. For a QB who has some accuracy/interception issues, it may not be a good plan to make it a steady diet.

[RutgersJetFan]

We brought in Hunter to play up alongside Brick a good amount of times last season, not so much with Woody. I don't think Vlad's athletic enough to take on the role in this offense that he used to have. Mulligan and Cumberland are though. This is going to be a rough game. Rolling protection schemes to the right is just as much of a risk as keeping him in between the hashes because of how awful Hunter has been thus far. Unless he gets his sh*t together, teams know we're going to want to keep Sanchez towards the weakside with quicker passes. Two-TE sets, or an extra OL with a TE, even geared around block and release-routes, are fine and dandy from a protection standpoint, but you're still trading one guy out to do that.

[#27TheDominator]

Rolling out Sanchez is a great idea, mostly because he has proven to be effective on the run.

In addition to this, I'd love to see the Jets go no huddle a bunch this week to really gas the Raiders front four. It's a growing trend in the NFL that makes a lot of sense for the Jets to use, especially with the offensive line not being quite right yet.

I'm not so sure using the no huddle to gas the other team is a good idea with the offensive line not being quite right. If you mean not letting them sub in sure, but if you are looking to actually hurry up, I think it's a mistake. Baxter had some issues last week and Slauson is going to have to make the calls which means the Jets will probably need more time, not less.

[Lego My Lageman]

Vlad needs more playing time, I think thats a great way to give it to him without exposing Sanchez to his pass blocking or lack of

[BUM-KNEE]

I'm not so sure using the no huddle to gas the other team is a good idea with the offensive line not being quite right. If you mean not letting them sub in sure, but if you are looking to actually hurry up, I think it's a mistake. Baxter had some issues last week and Slauson is going to have to make the calls which means the Jets will probably need more time, not less.

If the plays were kept simple and quick hitting, it would be deadly IMO.

[JiFtheOracle]

I like roll outs, too, but you have to remember that they take away a good portion of the field for throwing the ball. So all the coverage can roll to the same side of the field and concentrate in there. For a QB who has some accuracy/interception issues, it may not be a good plan to make it a steady diet.

I'm not saying steady diet. I'm saying make some throws easy on him, get the pocket moving, so the Oline doesnt have to sit in their toe to toe with that line for an entire game. Make them work. In the long run it should help the Oline and ultimately Sanchez.

[SenorGato]

If the plays were kept simple and quick hitting, it would be deadly IMO.

Sure the plays would be deadly, but so could the likely mis-execution.

[BUM-KNEE]

Sure the plays would be deadly, but so could the likely mis-execution.

Well Im for giving it a serious look for the next 3 games, thats for sure.

I know we can mis-execute plays out of a normal offensive approach, its just as maddening to watch. Lets see if picking the pace up a little gives the O-line and Sanchez less heat, it could be the difference between losing by a FG or winning by a TD when the dust clears.

[Lego My Lageman]

Quick hit could equal pick 6.....our precentages for winning go down drastically then.

[#27TheDominator]

If the plays were kept simple and quick hitting, it would be deadly IMO.

It's not that I think it's a terrible idea, but I think the timing for it is horrible. They have a new center and already are having some timing troubles. They are also playing the Raiders. The Jets are simply a more talented team and should be able to pound the Raiders back to the stone ages without any gimmicks. I'd prefer Baxter proves he can snap on the right count before I expect him to follow the calls out of a no-huddle.

[BUM-KNEE]

It's not that I think it's a terrible idea, but I think the timing for it is horrible. They have a new center and already are having some timing troubles. They are also playing the Raiders. The Jets are simply a more talented team and should be able to pound the Raiders back to the stone ages without any gimmicks. I'd prefer Baxter proves he can snap on the right count before I expect him to follow the calls out of a no-huddle.

The timing isnt the best, but thats partly why it might work to our advantage Dom. If the O-line is taking a beating, it would be a good time to go no huddle for a few plays. Keep them guessing and let our line dictate the pace with a few quick hitters and screens. Get them to back off the pressure for awhile, and make them chase the play instead of having time to disrupt it.

Dunno... just thinking out loud I guess.

[#27TheDominator]

The timing isnt the best, but thats partly why it might work to our advantage Dom. If the O-line is taking a beating, it would be a good time to go no huddle for a few plays. Keep them guessing and let our line dictate the pace with a few quick hitters and screens. Get them to back off the pressure for awhile, and make them chase the play instead of having time to disrupt it.

Dunno... just thinking out loud I guess.

Like I said, not a stupid idea, but I'd rather just crush them. They are the Raiders. Like the rollout JiF suggested in the original post it's something to think about, but not a steady diet. If I had to guess I'd say Baxter isn't ready. I'm sure the board will blame that on Schottenheimer, but such is life.

[Vudu]

I just want Shonn Greene to stop sucking.

[BUM-KNEE]

Im with the "just crush them" plan too.

[Aten]

Like the rollout JiF suggested in the original post it's something to think about, but not a steady diet.

There's no such thing as a steady diet of rollouts. We already do it plenty, too much more and it's going to start getting jumped. It's one play. The bootleg is the bootleg. It's not like there are a bunch of exotic variations.

[SenorGato]

Well Im for giving it a serious look for the next 3 games, thats for sure.

I know we can mis-execute plays out of a normal offensive approach, its

just as maddening to watch. Lets see if picking the pace up a little gives the O-line and Sanchez less heat, it could be the difference between losing by a FG or winning by a TD when the dust clears.

We will probably see it against the Pats and Chargers. Youre not beating those teams without passing the ball. I hope Mangold enjoys his rest because Wilfork is no joke again this year. The guy has HOF written all over him.

[#27TheDominator]

Im with the "just crush them" plan too.

It's so simple

There's no such thing as a steady diet of rollouts. We already do it plenty, too much more and it's going to start getting jumped. It's one play. The bootleg is the bootleg. It's not like there are a bunch of exotic variations.

Wasn't my term, but my point was that it's something you do now and then, but not every down. You could run no-huddle all the time, but I don't see how Baxter will be up to it. He seemed pretty lost with the regular offense.

I agree the rollout could start getting jumped, but the one they usually use seems to have enough options. The important thing is to be able to sell the initial run fake. Then after the roll, there are usually a couple of crossing routes at different depths. It's pretty tough to cover it all. I think they may succeed because it limits the options Sanchez has without giving up too much. He looks at one or two crossing routes, 10 yards-20 yards- then either dumps it to the back or runs. He doesn't have to pick up receivers all over the field.