So..... Ground & Pound, etc.

[Integrity28]

For the past couple years, one of my go-to criticisms of the Jets (specifically coach Ryan) has been that while they talk about Ground & Pound, there are teams like the 49ers and Seahawks that exemplify it.

 

It would appear that there's been an alignment of the start, per se, as we see Idzik modeling his rebuild very much after what we've seen in Seattle the past few years, and actually with what we saw from Tampa years ago.

 

Play GREAT defense.

 

At this point, the Jets have invested three #1 picks in the DL, have freakish athleticism across the whole front. I don't care how guys line up, 3-4, 4-3, 46, whatever... Rex's defense is predicated upon attacking protection. Where the pass rush comes from with him is not traditionally systemic, it's based on who does what well in his defense and how creative Rex can be. We didn't make any splashy moves at LBer, but on paper we did improve their as well, Bart Scott and Bryan Thomas move on, and Demario Davis and Antwan Barnes join the team. I expect that unit to be a little better in coverage and vs. the run than they were last year. Also feel they will continue to try to address the depth there in coming days/weeks. The secondary last year was anchored by Cro, Landry and Bell. The weak link was Wilson. This year, we lose both safeties, but have a chance to promote from within with Josh Bell, pair him with Dawan Landry and add a #1 CB to the secondary in Milliner. I also wonder if we'll see Joe McKnight turned into a free safety? Hate to lose his athleticism. I can't imagine any scenario where the defense is at least as good as last year, and on paper they should be better (especially on 3rd down, which is what stung us last year). 

 

The Jets were right to address the defense with those picks... pre-emptively fixing the problems BEFORE there's evidence of major decline. That's the way to do it.

 

Control the clock on offense, and wear opponents down.

 

If you look at the piece we've added on offense, you see a very clear commitment to establishing a nasty, punishing rushing attack. We've not had a RB that runs with the ferocity of Chris Ivory in a long time. Goodson will serve a a perfect compliment, and Powell will be a 2nd option for early down work. Potentially the best stable of RBs we've had in a long, long time. The offensive line was the crux of the offensive decline last year. It was pitiful, especially in the early part of the year when the wheels fell off the whole season. 3 picks, multiple free agents, there's going to be some serious competition for those starting spots and the outcome will be players at every position that won their job, and weren't just given it for being the only option on the roster. 

 

The headlines are of course going to center on Geno, Sanchez, Tebow, Garrard and the others. My hope is Geno is groomed. While Garrard starts. Supporting any of these QBs, even Sanchez, with a nasty power rushing attack will inevitably result in much better QB play. Especially under the guise of Morninwheg.

 

This was one of the better drafts I've ever seen by the Jets, and I'm excited for the first time in a few years about the makeup of this team. They put the focus on developing the things you can improve at immediately, in one off-season, defense, pass protection and running the ball. The passing attack can and will develop at the rate we develop our young WRs and of course QB, but it'll come. That's a hard thing to fix (at multiple positions) in one off-season. 

 

In the meantime, prepare for some REAL ground and pound ... finally.

[slats]

The offensive line was the crux of the offensive decline last year. It was pitiful, especially in the early part of the year when the wheels fell off the whole season.

 

So I agree with the vast majority of your post as far as what it appears the Jets are trying to do. I posted the same thing using less words without starting my own thread about it in the worst drafters ever thread.

 

But I don't agree that the OL was the crux of the problem on offense at all. The OL was pretty good, Sanchez and his supporting cast of so-called skill position players were the crux of the problem. A problem that got worse with the injuries to Keller and Holmes. Unless Hill, White, and/or Hayden Smith really take a huge step forward, that's going to continue to be the problem.

 

Hopefully this ground & pound nonsense is a short term attempt at a solution, and the offense enters the 21st century next year.

[T0mShane]

Good post, Ape. I agree with much of it, but you're being too generous. Looking at the Big Picture, what Idzik did in this draft was begin to prepare the team for 2015, and he showed that he's willing to be mind-bendingly patient about it. To whit:

--After next season, Cro is gone (or heavily restructured). Milliner then becomes your #1 corner. The #2 corner is not on the team presently, unless Cro is willing to eat his deal by cutting it in half (thirds?).

--Richardson gives the team flexibility to move to a 4-3 if/when the next coach decides he wants to use it. He's a versatile pick who gets to spend next season in sub packages, or playing RDE with Coples standing up. He is not now, nor will he ever be a nose tackle, so he doesn't fit an immediate need, but in two years when we're running a different defense, he slides in at 3-tech and away you go. Yes, Rex uses some 4-3, but you don't spend the #13 pick on a guy to play "some" of the time.

--Winters and Aboushi are conversions who will upgrade LG and RT eventually. Both need to learn new positions, and Aboushi (in particular) needs to spend time in an NFL weight program. It wouldn't surprise me if neither of these guys saw the field much this year, but next year you'll have a very big, aggressive OL. Again, probably no real immediate dividends, but the future looks bright.

--And, obviously, Geno needs work. I've been hearing him in interviews and he sounds like a kid whose confidence just took a major beating over the past few months. Somebody has to rebuild him, because he doesn't seem to be one of those naturally arrogant douches who remain arrogant even when they're struggling (like Brady, Eli, or Rodgers). IMO, if Smith starts bad, he'll stay bad, so the Jets need to move slowly, carefully with him or they'll break him like an egg. To that end, like you said, they're going to first install a road-grading rushing attack so the onus isn't entirely on the QB position, but whoever plays QB is still going to take a beating because the receivers just aren't here yet, and good teams are still going to be able to score on the defense in much the same way they did the last two years--by wearing them down after the offense has countless three-and-outs, and owning the fourth quarter.

They'll be really bad this year. All they want to do is find out if Geno can play, integrate Winters into the OL, clear some salary (Holmes, Sanchez), (maybe) determine how much of the problems here stem from Rex, and establish your core of players around Mangold, Brick, Wilkerson, Milliner, Demario Davis, Ivory, and Geno. Throw Winters into that mix if he shows he can play, and Coples if he shows up ready to work.

Next year, the draft and FA will be alllllllll about the skills. The best case scenario is that the team gets a top three pick and get either Clowney or Marquise Lee, and away we go. The next coach (Darrell Bevell or Rexlol), will spend 2014 integrating them, and you'll wake up in 2015 with a big running game behind a monster OL, (hopefully) a dynamic, mobile QB, young receivers, and a defense that can rush the passer from several spots.

[Larz]

you draft for the future, sign FA to fill needs

 

and you ground a pound when you don't have a QB

 

defensive coach will never want a run and shoot style offese, but if your trust your QB you throw it, even rex kows that

[Integrity28]

So I agree with the vast majority of your post as far as what it appears the Jets are trying to do. I posted the same thing using less words without starting my own thread about it in the worst drafters ever thread.

 

But I don't agree that the OL was the crux of the problem on offense at all. The OL was pretty good, Sanchez and his supporting cast of so-called skill position players were the crux of the problem. A problem that got worse with the injuries to Keller and Holmes. Unless Hill, White, and/or Hayden Smith really take a huge step forward, that's going to continue to be the problem.

 

Hopefully this ground & pound nonsense is a short term attempt at a solution, and the offense enters the 21st century next year.

 

I didn't bother reading that "worst drafters" thread, to be honest. Just not the vibe I'm feeling right now, and I expect people like you to see the positives in what we did this past weekend, and be able to sum it up more concisely, it's for the herp-a-derp's that I start a new thread and over-explain things ad nauseum. 

 

In thinking about it you are correct - "the crux of the problem" was not the right way to express what I wanted to say there. The offensive line had a LOT to do with the complete inability to run the ball, which in turn put pressure on Sanchez to do what he obviously cannot. The "crux" was Sanchez, plain and simple.

 

I think EVERY team that wants to win should be able to plow over an opponent with their running game, when they want, but it shouldn't be the only source of offense. That's where Garrard and Geno come in. I'm faithful both guys will do more under center for this team than Sanchez has the past 4 years. 

[slats]

--And, obviously, Geno needs work. I've been hearing him in interviews and he sounds like a kid whose confidence just took a major beating over the past few months. Somebody has to rebuild him, because he doesn't seem to be one of those naturally arrogant douches who remain arrogant even when they're struggling (like Brady, Eli, or Rodgers). IMO, if Smith starts bad, he'll stay bad, so the Jets need to move slowly, carefully with him or they'll break him like an egg. To that end, like you said, they're going to first install a road-grading rushing attack so the onus isn't entirely on the QB position, but whoever plays QB is still going to take a beating because the receivers just aren't here yet, and good teams are still going to be able to score on the defense in much the same way they did the last two years--by wearing them down after the offense has countless three-and-outs, and owning the fourth quarter.

 

This mental fragility is why I didn't want Smith in the first place. This is Sanchez' problem, too. It's exactly the type of QB the Jets should be staying away from. When you make mistakes, you're supposed to try to learn something from them. Frankly, I don't think the lesson learned from the Mark Sanchez era should be that the Jets need to coddle another QB. If the kid doesn't have it together mentally, he's probably never gonna be an NFL QB.

 

So sit him for half the year -maybe- but not much more than that. The Jets need to see him in action this year. Not only his performance on the field, but how he reacts emotionally. If he's gonna pout on the sidelines when the Ravens throw him a beating, the Jets need to see that. Does he respond seeking by revenge every time he goes out on the field? Does he shrug off adversity and just go about his business? Or does he curl up in a little ball? This needs to be learned about Geno the pro QB before the Jets enter the next offseason. They need to have a real feeling about whether they have their QB of the future, or if they still need one.

 

And if Geno breaks like an egg in the meantime, so be it.

[T0mShane]

^ I think there's a lot of room between coddling him and developing him. I think the offense this year is a bear trap for any QB, and I don't envy any QB who gets to step into it, much less a clearly impressionable young one who needs building up. I think the last five games are a good enough test for him. Jets fans as a whole are pretty surly right now and are going to boo the living sh*t out of the team, especially early on. You let Smith sit and watch how the vets handle it, let the team crater, and let the eventual Smith anointmenf become an event. Reduce the initial pressure on him instead of putting him out there with Stephen Hill, with 50,000 fans waiting to punish Rex and Woody for screwing the team up.

[slats]

^ I think there's a lot of room between coddling him and developing him. I think the offense this year is a bear trap for any QB, and I don't envy any QB who gets to step into it, much less a clearly impressionable young one who needs building up. I think the last five games are a good enough test for him. Jets fans as a whole are pretty surly right now and are going to boo the living sh*t out of the team, especially early on. You let Smith sit and watch how the vets handle it, let the team crater, and let the eventual Smith anointmenf become an event. Reduce the initial pressure on him instead of putting him out there with Stephen Hill, with 50,000 fans waiting to punish Rex and Woody for screwing the team up.

 

This year, the bye week comes after week #9. That's the perfect time to to give the kid two weeks of starter's reps, and then throw him in against the Buffalo Bills - who really should be a patsy. Yeah, he'll have to face the Ravens the following week. Oh, well. I'd want to see him in a larger body of work than five potential garbage time games. And I want to see how he performs and reacts against the current champs.

 

The Jets need to know as much as they can about the kid in 2013, so they know whether or not to get another QB in 2014.

[jetsjetsjetss]

the best way to develope a young qb is by putting him behind a stud o line.

 

Getting big time recievers can wait but if you give him time to throw itll be great

[Greenseed4]

Great thread Ape, I was thinking the same thing.

Seattle and San Fran broke in their young QBs slowly, behind their running game, and they're continuing to add pieces to their rushing attack (Christine Michael, despite Lynch and Turbin; Marcus Lattimore despite Gore/Hunter/James). And both teams are predicated on their defense.

I guarantee Idzik has taken note.

It's just odd that on paper it would seem that we're dedicating ourselves to the G&P in a year that we've adopted an "attacking" spread it around offense.

Either way, it would appear that protecting our new QB with both, ample OL competition and a renewed rushing attack, should bode well for us moving forward. It was our approach to starting Sanchez, and he only started what, 12 games in college?

[T0mShane]

This year, the bye week comes after week #9. That's the perfect time to to give the kid two weeks of starter's reps, and then throw him in against the Buffalo Bills - who really should be a patsy. Yeah, he'll have to face the Ravens the following week. Oh, well. I'd want to see him in a larger body of work than five potential garbage time games. And I want to see how he performs and reacts against the current champs.

The Jets need to know as much as they can about the kid in 2013, so they know whether or not to get another QB in 2014.

Fair enough. Taking a beating from Baltimore still gives him almost six months to prepare for it, and another month to recover.

[Maxman]

Rex. Ryan. Is. Not. Getting. Fired.

[T0mShane]

Rex. Ryan. Is. Not. Getting. Fired.

IN THE THINKING PHASE:

Tom Shane tattoo bet: if Rex Ryan is the Head Coach of the NYJ on June 1st, 2014, I will get a tattoo saying "REX" somewhere on my body IF JN's fan community produces $5000 worth of donations to a children's charity yet to be decided.

[Maxman]

IN THE THINKING PHASE:

Tom Shane tattoo bet: if Rex Ryan is the Head Coach of the NYJ on June 1st, 2014, I will get a tattoo saying "REX" somewhere on my body IF JN's fan community produces $5000 worth of donations to a children's charity yet to be decided.

 

Do it.

[Integrity28]

IN THE THINKING PHASE:

Tom Shane tattoo bet: if Rex Ryan is the Head Coach of the NYJ on June 1st, 2014, I will get a tattoo saying "REX" somewhere on my body IF JN's fan community produces $5000 worth of donations to a children's charity yet to be decided.

 

 

Sounds like an elaborate, yet transparent, scheme that servers no purpose other than giving you a good reason to post a photo of your grotesque body parts.

[T0mShane]

Sounds like an elaborate, yet transparent, scheme that servers no purpose other than giving you a good reason to post a photo of your grotesque body parts.

It's like you see right through me.

[Integrity28]

It's like you see right through me.

 

You'd like that, wouldn't you. Creeper.

[T0mShane]

You'd like that, wouldn't you. Creeper.

:Bites lower lip:

[Irish Jet]

How come any notions of optimism always end with TS getting a tattoo? We lose either way.

 

Anyways. I actually like how we're setup. Get Sanchez the **** out of there and I think we can compete right away, the defence is a safety away from being a top unit. The offense now looks like it could be competent, really like that we're building on the offensive line. With a mobile QB and a running back that can run, our running game should improve dramatically. I want to see us sink or swim with Geno, right away. Like Slats said, if he is the type that needs to be coddled, then he's not worth coddling. This is 2013, rookie QB's can play right away if they're good enough. Unless he's an absolute trainwreck in camp he should play. And either he shows what we're looking for throughout the season or he doesn't. If he doesn't, we should be a in a position to replace him with a top prospect in what is hopefully a much stronger draft for QB's.

 

This league is all about getting a QB. Get on at all costs.

[whodeawhodat]

I have to place blame less on the O-Line and much more on the receivers inability to separate from defenders, sanchez staring down and pumping to his locked on target, and soprano's game plan which was atrocious considering he had carte blanche with Rex nowhere to be found in the offensive meeting rooms.  I am optimistic about Rex staying around and I am also thinking we draft a QB next year as well just because I don't see us being successful on offense.  Last years offense was p!ss poor and if you think a guard + Ivory is going to change that I hope you are right.  Morningwe had better be good at magic because that is the only way we put up points on a consistent basis this year. 

[JiFtheOracle]

I think its pretty obvious that Idzik is using the same mold that Seattle/San Fran did during their many years of rebuild.  Emphasis on great defense, strong at the point of attack on both sides of the ball, establish a solid running game with a stable of RB's, find a high potential QB that you dont have to reach on and see what you have in the rebuild year, focus on filling the rest the following year with lots of available money in FA and a clear plan in the draft.

 

I'm not nearly as high as everyone else is on Ivory and Goodsen.  I get they are powerful, aggressive, high potential guys who've just been buried on the depth chart but they've been injury riddled and I'm just not sure either of them can be a featured back.  That said, it cant be worse than last year so I'm cautiously optimistic. 

 

IMO - the ground and pound focus of the offseason was more about, whats available right now, with the money we have, that can help us have some success on offense taking the pressure off our sh*tty QB's and WR's without over spending/over drafting for a WR or TE.  I dont believe for a second that we're going to be a run 70/30 type team in the future...but I think it makes sense this year to get the run game established while the passing game is going to come along slowly with Geno or another QB.

[SenorGato]

^^^ Sounds like the Jets' 2009 plan but more draft oriented.

[Integrity28]

^^^ Sounds like the Jets' 2009 plan but more draft oriented.

 

 

It does, however, I think there are some semantic differences. Like having a veteran QB as a buffer for the rookie. Like having multiple, young RBs with lots of upside, rather than old farts. Like having the defense in place already, and the offensive line only needed guards, instead of LT and C.

 

So I do think we are back on track towards a 2009 philosophy, but with the pieces to do a better version of it. That's why I stand by what I said the other day in a different thread... we are going to compete for 2nd in this division. Depending on the rest of the AFC, sneaking into the playoffs isn't out of this world. I truly believe that.

 

Especially if Chris Ivory and Mike Goodson can stay healthy and do their thing.

[Smashmouth]

For the past couple years, one of my go-to criticisms of the Jets (specifically coach Ryan) has been that while they talk about Ground & Pound, there are teams like the 49ers and Seahawks that exemplify it.

 

It would appear that there's been an alignment of the start, per se, as we see Idzik modeling his rebuild very much after what we've seen in Seattle the past few years, and actually with what we saw from Tampa years ago.

 

Play GREAT defense.

 

At this point, the Jets have invested three #1 picks in the DL, have freakish athleticism across the whole front. I don't care how guys line up, 3-4, 4-3, 46, whatever... Rex's defense is predicated upon attacking protection. Where the pass rush comes from with him is not traditionally systemic, it's based on who does what well in his defense and how creative Rex can be. We didn't make any splashy moves at LBer, but on paper we did improve their as well, Bart Scott and Bryan Thomas move on, and Demario Davis and Antwan Barnes join the team. I expect that unit to be a little better in coverage and vs. the run than they were last year. Also feel they will continue to try to address the depth there in coming days/weeks. The secondary last year was anchored by Cro, Landry and Bell. The weak link was Wilson. This year, we lose both safeties, but have a chance to promote from within with Josh Bell, pair him with Dawan Landry and add a #1 CB to the secondary in Milliner. I also wonder if we'll see Joe McKnight turned into a free safety? Hate to lose his athleticism. I can't imagine any scenario where the defense is at least as good as last year, and on paper they should be better (especially on 3rd down, which is what stung us last year). 

 

The Jets were right to address the defense with those picks... pre-emptively fixing the problems BEFORE there's evidence of major decline. That's the way to do it.

 

Control the clock on offense, and wear opponents down.

 

If you look at the piece we've added on offense, you see a very clear commitment to establishing a nasty, punishing rushing attack. We've not had a RB that runs with the ferocity of Chris Ivory in a long time. Goodson will serve a a perfect compliment, and Powell will be a 2nd option for early down work. Potentially the best stable of RBs we've had in a long, long time. The offensive line was the crux of the offensive decline last year. It was pitiful, especially in the early part of the year when the wheels fell off the whole season. 3 picks, multiple free agents, there's going to be some serious competition for those starting spots and the outcome will be players at every position that won their job, and weren't just given it for being the only option on the roster. 

 

The headlines are of course going to center on Geno, Sanchez, Tebow, Garrard and the others. My hope is Geno is groomed. While Garrard starts. Supporting any of these QBs, even Sanchez, with a nasty power rushing attack will inevitably result in much better QB play. Especially under the guise of Morninwheg.

 

This was one of the better drafts I've ever seen by the Jets, and I'm excited for the first time in a few years about the makeup of this team. They put the focus on developing the things you can improve at immediately, in one off-season, defense, pass protection and running the ball. The passing attack can and will develop at the rate we develop our young WRs and of course QB, but it'll come. That's a hard thing to fix (at multiple positions) in one off-season. 

 

In the meantime, prepare for some REAL ground and pound ... finally.

 

APE good write up but I disagree on defense. Im not sure how you see this team better on paper ? The 2 safeties we lost were seasoned vets that both hit hard and played well I understand why we let them move on but it certainly does not improve the defense. We have a rookie coming in at CB and we are still lacking at the LB position. I see this defense being exactly the same as in past years and I do not see it generating a pass rush at all. Sure the scheme will put out its normal pressure on the QB forcing them to throw sooner than they would like but teams have figured that out and pick up our blitz much better. Its the Reason our blitz percentage has dropped the past few years in comparision to year one of Rex when he blitzed like a mad man.

 

I feel due to Rex's scheme the defensive lineman suffer and do not get to set up the O-lineman like they normaly would in a traditional 4-3 set. Last year with our picks I said it looked like we would be going more 4-3 or even more of a traditional 4-3 and we did not. That being said I think all you can expect out of a defensive lineman is in the area of about 5 sacks, give or take a few. It certainly wont be anything other teams fear like having a terror at OLB that not only could produce 15 + sacks for the backer but also open things up for the DE in the 3-4 alignment Kind of like we saw with Lawrence Taylor Leonard Marshall with the Giants in the mid 80's. I dont ever expect to approach those levels but it was obvious Taylor made Marshals career. We simply do not have a pass rushing OLB  Im nto even sure we have a good all around LB on the team at this stage.

 

I think what this adds up to is big problems on Thrid down and honestly I dont care where we are ranked.

 

All that being said we do have a lot of cap space in the coming years and building the base of the defense in certianly not a bad way to start things off. I hope next year we see this team target a few LB's to come in here and really wreak some havoc and at that stage I think you will see Ryans defense excell just like his Dads did in Chicago but without the LB's its not going to happen. 

[Smashmouth]

I think its pretty obvious that Idzik is using the same mold that Seattle/San Fran did during their many years of rebuild.  Emphasis on great defense, strong at the point of attack on both sides of the ball, establish a solid running game with a stable of RB's, find a high potential QB that you dont have to reach on and see what you have in the rebuild year, focus on filling the rest the following year with lots of available money in FA and a clear plan in the draft.

 

I'm not nearly as high as everyone else is on Ivory and Goodsen.  I get they are powerful, aggressive, high potential guys who've just been buried on the depth chart but they've been injury riddled and I'm just not sure either of them can be a featured back.  That said, it cant be worse than last year so I'm cautiously optimistic. 

 

IMO - the ground and pound focus of the offseason was more about, whats available right now, with the money we have, that can help us have some success on offense taking the pressure off our sh*tty QB's and WR's without over spending/over drafting for a WR or TE.  I dont believe for a second that we're going to be a run 70/30 type team in the future...but I think it makes sense this year to get the run game established while the passing game is going to come along slowly with Geno or another QB.

 

JIF I dont think the Jets are looking for Ivory or Goodsen to emerge as a feature back I think they will use them along with Powell in a RB by comittee, something along the lines of how N.O. uses their backs. Keep them fresh and then go with the hotter hand in the 4th quarter to shut the game down

[SenorGato]

It does, however, I think there are some semantic differences. Like having a veteran QB as a buffer for the rookie. Like having multiple, young RBs with lots of upside, rather than old farts. Like having the defense in place already, and the offensive line only needed guards, instead of LT and C.

 

So I do think we are back on track towards a 2009 philosophy, but with the pieces to do a better version of it. That's why I stand by what I said the other day in a different thread... we are going to compete for 2nd in this division. Depending on the rest of the AFC, sneaking into the playoffs isn't out of this world. I truly believe that.

 

Especially if Chris Ivory and Mike Goodson can stay healthy and do their thing.

 

1. Veteran QB like Brunell?

 

2. Like Greene and McKnight? I'll admit that I like Ivory, Goodson, and Powell more than this.

 

3. The Jets had a LT and a C in 2009.

 

Agreed that the other pieces are set up a little better...the RBs are younger overall and each with NFL experience and production...'09's starting WRs were Cotchery and Stuckey IIRC with nothing come down the pipes...Holmes/Kerley/Hill and friends certainly have more upside than that....Smith is way more experienced than Sanchez was coming out of college...

 

Sneaking into the playoffs in the NFL is always a possibility and agreed that this roster has a legit chance to surprise people. There's alot of stuff that works in the NFL - big DTs that create to go with a deep OL and handful of RBs...if only this f'n franchise could get some QB play...by QB play I mean QB play and not Weaponz play...Weaponz play when the QBs play.

[JiFtheOracle]

^^^ Sounds like the Jets' 2009 plan but more draft oriented.

 

It does, however, I think there are some semantic differences. Like having a veteran QB as a buffer for the rookie. Like having multiple, young RBs with lots of upside, rather than old farts. Like having the defense in place already, and the offensive line only needed guards, instead of LT and C.

 

So I do think we are back on track towards a 2009 philosophy, but with the pieces to do a better version of it. That's why I stand by what I said the other day in a different thread... we are going to compete for 2nd in this division. Depending on the rest of the AFC, sneaking into the playoffs isn't out of this world. I truly believe that.

 

Especially if Chris Ivory and Mike Goodson can stay healthy and do their thing.

 

Very similar, yes...but at that time, I think the roster was built for that pre-Ryan.  I think Ryan viewed the roster and knew our best chance to win with a rookie QB was to be committed to the run and play great defense.  This offseason has been more about building toward that type of philosophy as opposed to just joining a team built for that style of play.

 

JIF I dont think the Jets are looking for Ivory or Goodsen to emerge as a feature back I think they will use them along with Powell in a RB by comittee, something along the lines of how N.O. uses their backs. Keep them fresh and then go with the hotter hand in the 4th quarter to shut the game down

 

Probably right, but trading and resigning a player makes me think he's a big part of their plans.  I think they view Ivory as the guy who will get the bulk of the carries.  If Idzik is building similar to Seattle, then Ivory is our Lynch ie; featured back.

[Integrity28]

1. Veteran QB like Brunell?

 

2. Like Greene and McKnight? I'll admit that I like Ivory, Goodson, and Powell more than this.

 

3. The Jets had a LT and a C in 2009.

 

Agreed that the other pieces are set up a little better...the RBs are younger overall and each with NFL experience and production...'09's starting WRs were Cotchery and Stuckey IIRC with nothing come down the pipes...Holmes/Kerley/Hill and friends certainly have more upside than that....Smith is way more experienced than Sanchez was coming out of college...

 

Sneaking into the playoffs in the NFL is always a possibility and agreed that this roster has a legit chance to surprise people. There's alot of stuff that works in the NFL - big DTs that create to go with a deep OL and handful of RBs...if only this f'n franchise could get some QB play...by QB play I mean QB play and not Weaponz play...Weaponz play when the QBs play.

 

Not like Brunell, he was past the point of being able to play. Garrard won the starting gig in Miami last year, which tells me he's capable of playing. Brunell was a babysitter.

 

Sanchez was drafted it was Thomas Jones and Leon, wasn't it? I can't recall but that's not exactly awe inspiring. Neither is Green and McKnight.

 

Yup. Forgot Brick and Mangy came before Sanchez.

 

QB play will determine everything, agree with you there. 

[SenorGato]

Greene was drafted the same year as Sanchez...so Washington, Greene, and McKnight as young guys. Not awe inspiring, but two of those guys did a solid job while they were cheap. I wouldn't call Ivory or Goodson awe inspiring either. We just need them to get the job done like the 2009 RBs did.

[Integrity28]

Greene was drafted the same year as Sanchez...so Washington, Greene, and McKnight as young guys. Not awe inspiring, but two of those guys did a solid job while they were cheap. I wouldn't call Ivory or Goodson awe inspiring either. We just need them to get the job done like the 2009 RBs did.

 

 

I think Ivory/Goodson has a much higher ceiling than any 2 RBs we've had on the roster in a long time, that's all I'm saying.

[sh4dy15]

How come any notions of optimism always end with TS getting a tattoo? We lose either way.

 

Anyways. I actually like how we're setup. Get Sanchez the **** out of there and I think we can compete right away, the defence is a safety away from being a top unit. The offense now looks like it could be competent, really like that we're building on the offensive line. With a mobile QB and a running back that can run, our running game should improve dramatically. I want to see us sink or swim with Geno, right away. Like Slats said, if he is the type that needs to be coddled, then he's not worth coddling. This is 2013, rookie QB's can play right away if they're good enough. Unless he's an absolute trainwreck in camp he should play. And either he shows what we're looking for throughout the season or he doesn't. If he doesn't, we should be a in a position to replace him with a top prospect in what is hopefully a much stronger draft for QB's.

 

This league is all about getting a QB. Get on at all costs.

 

I completely agree. My expectations of this team have shifted dramatically. You would think as a Jet fan I would have learned by now not to let expectatons run wild in the off season but I do believe we can compete. I think theyre are going to throw Geno in there behind a solid line with decent RB's and see what hes got and I am optimistic but not going crazy.

 

At least the defense should be pretty solid and we have a reason to be excited!

[Scott Dierking]

Rex. Ryan. Is. Not. Getting. Fired.

Doubt he takes another position within the organization so, yeah, it will probably be termed a firing.

[Maxman]

Doubt he takes another position within the organization so, yeah, it will probably be termed a firing.

 

The Jets are going to the playoffs.  Sure some coaches get fired after 10 win seasons but history has shown that to not happen often.

[Smashmouth]

The Jets are going to the playoffs. 

 

So tell me Max what kind of Tatoo are you getting ?