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whodeawhodat
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I'm really not joking. This is Rex's team they're stripping. It's unfortunate that Rex's team sucks and requires shredding. It's unfortunate that Rex's vision required heaping cash on guys like Bart Scott and Santonio Holmes and Mark Sanchez whose contracts hurt the team's ability to sign players this year. It's unfortunate that Rex's alleged coaching greatness didn't allow him to coach up any players to provide depth to the roster, or to produce capable replacements for players who aged out.

We agree that Tannenbaum sucked, and that he leaned way too heavily on Rex for personnel decisions that neither were qualified to make. Where we disagree is that I think Rex has genuine value as a coach. If Idzik is the grown-up in the room, making all the personnel decisions and simply handing Rex a roster to work with - I think that's a relationship that can work. That'll be up to Idzik at the end of the year.

The Jets made the AFC Championship game in Rex's rookie season with a rookie Sanchez QB'ing the team. They decided the following year to make a run at a championship from there. In all honesty, that probably wasn't unreasonable, but Tannenbaum always built a top-heavy roster, but that one championship game appearance sent him into overdrive. Then he doubled-down after the second. Tanny seemed to pride himself on signing expensive players, rather than build a talented roster with less expensive players. Getting D'Brick, Mangold, Harris, and Revis all signed was a point of pride for him.

The roster was terribly mismanaged. I don't place the blame on Rex because that shouldn't've been his job. The only thing to do this year is start a rebuild. Even casual fans understand this. If Idzik tried to push for a playoff run this year, he'd be labeled incompetent before he even got started. Spinning that to mean he doesn't have faith in Rex? Come on. I could easily spin it the other way. That he has so much faith in Rex that he's willing to let him preside over a rebuild and not worry about wins and losses. That he doesn't feel he needs to bring in expensive players for Rex to be successful. In fact, the draft and free agency moves would seem to fully support the ground & pound, win with defense vision that Rex has always pushed. I guess Idzik has completely bought in, too.

Gee, that was simple.

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Boy that Rex sure does a lot. No wonder he doesn't have time to install a competent offense.

Things That Are Not The Fault Of The Jets Head Coach:

1. The composition of the roster

2. The development of his quarterback

3. The entirety of the offense

4. The performance of his hand-selected coordinator

Sounds a lot like the same responsibilities Dennis Thurman has. Interesting.

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Things That Are Not The Fault Of The Jets Head Coach:

1. The composition of the roster

2. The development of his quarterback

3. The entirety of the offense

4. The performance of his hand-selected coordinator

Sounds a lot like the same responsibilities Dennis Thurman has. Interesting.

 

Did I ever say any of that?  The first two are certainly arguable and so is the 4th.  It's possible that Sanchez just sucks.  It's also possible that he didn't pick Sparano and he certainly didn't pick Schottenheimer. I would assume that the FO has a better idea about which of those things he is responsible for and how much.

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We agree that Tannenbaum sucked, and that he leaned way too heavily on Rex for personnel decisions that neither were qualified to make. Where we disagree is that I think Rex has genuine value as a coach. If Idzik is the grown-up in the room, making all the personnel decisions and simply handing Rex a roster to work with - I think that's a relationship that can work. That'll be up to Idzik at the end of the year.

The Jets made the AFC Championship game in Rex's rookie season with a rookie Sanchez QB'ing the team. They decided the following year to make a run at a championship from there. In all honesty, that probably wasn't unreasonable, but Tannenbaum always built a top-heavy roster, but that one championship game appearance sent him into overdrive. Then he doubled-down after the second. Tanny seemed to pride himself on signing expensive players, rather than build a talented roster with less expensive players. Getting D'Brick, Mangold, Harris, and Revis all signed was a point of pride for him.

The roster was terribly mismanaged. I don't place the blame on Rex because that shouldn't've been his job. The only thing to do this year is start a rebuild. Even casual fans understand this. If Idzik tried to push for a playoff run this year, he'd be labeled incompetent before he even got started. Spinning that to mean he doesn't have faith in Rex? Come on. I could easily spin it the other way. That he has so much faith in Rex that he's willing to let him preside over a rebuild and not worry about wins and losses. That he doesn't feel he needs to bring in expensive players for Rex to be successful. In fact, the draft and free agency moves would seem to fully support the ground & pound, win with defense vision that Rex has always pushed. I guess Idzik has completely bought in, too.

Gee, that was simple.

Good post. The crux of our disagreement is in the value and performance of Rex as a Head Coach, and I believe I stated this when he was hired: players coaches have a brief window of effectiveness before they get tuned out. I compared this to both Herm and Pete Carroll at the time. This, IMO, is what is playing out. Rex was in over his head trying to work with Tanny to build a sustainable contender. I feel he should, and will, pay the price for that and if Woody didn't have to scratch a huge check to fire him in January, he would be gone today. This is my opinion.

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Did I ever say any of that? The first two are certainly arguable and so is the 4th. It's possible that Sanchez just sucks. It's also possible that he didn't pick Sparano and he certainly didn't pick Schottenheimer. I would assume that the FO has a better idea about which of those things he is responsible for and how much.

They're not arguable. No head coach in the league gets a pass in any of those areas.

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Good post. The crux of our disagreement is in the value and performance of Rex as a Head Coach, and I believe I stated this when he was hired: players coaches have a brief window of effectiveness before they get tuned out. I compared this to both Herm and Pete Carroll at the time. This, IMO, is what is playing out. Rex was in over his head trying to work with Tanny to build a sustainable contender. I feel he should, and will, pay the price for that and if Woody didn't have to scratch a huge check to fire him in January, he would be gone today. This is my opinion.

I think Woody legitimately likes a lot about Rex, but also sees that there's room for improvement. I don't think the paycheck thing is all that big a deal to Woody. What's the difference if he fires him this year or next? One year's salary? He had no problem eating the rest of Tannenbaum's contract. If he was really finished with Rex, I don't think money would've stopped him from making a move.

I also think Rex is learning on the job. If (when?) he gets fired here, he'll go somewhere else and be a better head coach. If he stays here, I think he can be a better head coach.

Sporano was his personal hire, he failed, and he was promptly let go (another contract Woody had no trouble eating). It wouldn't've shocked many people if Rex had decided to stand by Luigi, given his reputation for blind loyalty. He didn't. That's progress right there. He the QB position shakes out will be the next clue.

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Isnt that the case with any change in leadership?  There's always an adjustment period and during that time, the evaluation process takes place.  Everyone has a different style and you must adjust to that style and sometimes change the way you do things to appease your new leader.  This could be a good thing.  The ying to Rex's yang. 

 

My take on the Rex situation is this: Woody loves Rex, rightfully so.  If Rex was forced on Idzik, which everyone assumes was the case...then why would anyone think that in year 2, he's going to override Woody's power and have him fired?  Additionally, knowing that Idzik has stripped the team down to the bare essentials, dont you think Woody would want to see what Rex can do once they restock the roster with some talent?  He's already proven he can take a mediocre team deep in the playoffs, why not see what he can do with a roster that actually has some talented Football players on it?

 

Besides, I think Idzik will see what a great coach he has in Rex Ryan and come to agree with Woody that he's the best man for the job.  And if he doesnt and fires Rex like so many are claiming is 100% a sure bet, Rex will immediately be the hottest HC on the market next season.  

 

No, I don't think that's necessarily the case.  I can't remember a specific example at the moment, but say a GM retires and the HC has been very successful for a number of years and the team is smart, disciplined, plays tough and is almost always in the playoff hunt.  In that situation, why would the new GM put him on notice?  That would be dumb and counterproductive even if they did have a different philosophy or even if their personalities clashed.  That would be a great way to put your job in jeopardy, running off a successful (and likely popular) HC and then having to replace him.  That would be a ton of pressure.

 

Yes, adjustments often have to be made, but the best managers realize when THEY are the ones who need to change to fit a particular situation or employee and not vice versa, so it isn't always the employee that needs to adjust or change.

 

If Idzik can help Rex see where he has shot himself in the foot and hurt both himself and the team in the past, and help him to learn and grow, great.  Rex is an excellent DC in many aspects and if he can learn and gain some discipline, then he can perhaps become a very good, if not great HC.  That remains to be seen however.  Rex has talked a good game about realizing that he needs to change and grow, but I haven't seen much, if any, evidence that he actually has changed or grown.  Unless he's radically different from his father, I just don't see it happening.

 

As for why he would fire Rex in year 2, there are a number of reasons.  As has been discussed, he's probably evaluating Rex on a lot more than just the W-L record.  If he was only evaluating on the W-L record and the team was rebuilding, then no, he wouldn't or shouldn't even consider firing Rex.  OTOH, if the team plays shoddily, without discipline or accountability, if the same mistakes are made that have been made in previous seasons, then imo that would be a very good reason for firing Rex.  Even though there are a number of rookies and cheap FAs who will be seeing significant time, a good HC would mold them into playing solidly.  The team could show up for every game, show progress, toughness, play smart, not beat themselves, be in every game until the final gun, and still have a poor record.  The HC could play the young guys to see what he has and develop them.  Those would be reasons to not consider firing Rex.   Conversely, one or more units of the team could continue to not show up at all or show up late, play with shoddy fundamentals, no discipline, beat themselves, be a circus in the locker room, and that would be ample justification for firing Rex.

 

I disagree that Rex has taken a mediocre team far into the playoffs.  The talent and level of play of those 2009-2010 teams was FAR above the last 2 years.  Rex inherited the talent on the 2009-2010 teams and had at least some input into the drafting and development of the 2011-2012 teams.

 

I'm totally puzzled as to why you are so blind to Rex's faults and love him so much.  He isn't what you think he is.  He's 10x more buffoon than he is great.

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I think Woody legitimately likes a lot about Rex, but also sees that there's room for improvement. I don't think the paycheck thing is all that big a deal to Woody. What's the difference if he fires him this year or next? One year's salary? He had no problem eating the rest of Tannenbaum's contract. If he was really finished with Rex, I don't think money would've stopped him from making a move.

I also think Rex is learning on the job. If (when?) he gets fired here, he'll go somewhere else and be a better head coach. If he stays here, I think he can be a better head coach.

Sporano was his personal hire, he failed, and he was promptly let go (another contract Woody had no trouble eating). It wouldn't've shocked many people if Rex had decided to stand by Luigi, given his reputation for blind loyalty. He didn't. That's progress right there. He the QB position shakes out will be the next clue.

We shall see, my friend. Regardless of my personal dislike of Rex, I really haven't been this confident of a coach's imminent demise since Rich Kotite.

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What strong criteria for keeping a head coach-"if he doesn't lose the team" LOL

I have higher expectations in my puppy not pissing in the house.

 

Well we certainly aren't winning many games next season if that's what you're looking for.  Tell me, what criteria SHOULD Idzik be using this season?  Win the Super Bowl or Rex is fired?  Then hire whom?

Edited by Jetsfan80
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Good post. The crux of our disagreement is in the value and performance of Rex as a Head Coach, and I believe I stated this when he was hired: players coaches have a brief window of effectiveness before they get tuned out. I compared this to both Herm and Pete Carroll at the time. This, IMO, is what is playing out. Rex was in over his head trying to work with Tanny to build a sustainable contender. I feel he should, and will, pay the price for that and if Woody didn't have to scratch a huge check to fire him in January, he would be gone today. This is my opinion.

 

Difference is those player coaches get tuned out because they're morons who have no football sense.  Rex may come off as a moron to most but deficiencies in football intelligence is NOT one of his flaws. 

 

You cannot simply put Herm and Rex in the same boat, much like you couldn't put Herm and Pete Carroll in the same boat.  One was a buffoon who doesn't know what he's doing, another is a buffoon who appears to know exactly what he's doing.  Rex is far more like Carroll than he is like Herm.  All it took for Carroll to have success was to find Russell Wilson.  If Geno has half the success Wilson did his rookie year Rex will look great.

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Good post. The crux of our disagreement is in the value and performance of Rex as a Head Coach, and I believe I stated this when he was hired: players coaches have a brief window of effectiveness before they get tuned out. I compared this to both Herm and Pete Carroll at the time. This, IMO, is what is playing out. Rex was in over his head trying to work with Tanny to build a sustainable contender. I feel he should, and will, pay the price for that and if Woody didn't have to scratch a huge check to fire him in January, he would be gone today. This is my opinion.

 

Difference is those player coaches get tuned out because they're morons who have no football sense.  Rex may come off as a moron to most but deficiencies in football intelligence is NOT one of his flaws. 

 

You cannot simply put Herm and Rex in the same boat, much like you couldn't put Herm and Pete Carroll in the same boat.  One was a buffoon who doesn't know what he's doing, another is a buffoon who appears to know exactly what he's doing.  Rex is far more like Carroll than he is like Herm.  All it took for Carroll to have success was to find Russell Wilson.  If Geno has half the success Wilson did his rookie year Rex will look great.

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Difference is those player coaches get tuned out because they're morons who have no football sense. Rex may come off as a moron to most but deficiencies in football intelligence is NOT one of his flaws.

You cannot simply put Herm and Rex in the same boat, much like you couldn't put Herm and Pete Carroll in the same boat. One was a buffoon who doesn't know what he's doing, another is a buffoon who appears to know exactly what he's doing. Rex is far more like Carroll than he is like Herm. All it took for Carroll to have success was to find Russell Wilson. If Geno has half the success Wilson did his rookie year Rex will look great.

You cannot prove that Rex isn't a buffoon.

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When did I say "HOF QB"???  All we need is a COMPETENT QB who isn't ranked somewhere between the 28th and 35th QB his 4 years in the league.  Give Rex the 16th best QB in the NFL and he can do some great things. 

 

Literally every coach who ever picked up a clipboard would field better results if they had a Hall of Famer at QB.
 

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You cannot prove that Rex isn't a buffoon.

 

I can based on results.  Buffoons like Herm have 4-12 and 2-14 seasons.  That's the kind of season when players "tune out".  And for all his deficiencies, he had Chad Pennington, who at least was about a league average/slightly below average QB even if you remove the 2002 season from the equation. 

Edited by Jetsfan80
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No, I don't think that's necessarily the case.  I can't remember a specific example at the moment, but say a GM retires and the HC has been very successful for a number of years and the team is smart, disciplined, plays tough and is almost always in the playoff hunt.  In that situation, why would the new GM put him on notice?  That would be dumb and counterproductive even if they did have a different philosophy or even if their personalities clashed.  That would be a great way to put your job in jeopardy, running off a successful (and likely popular) HC and then having to replace him.  That would be a ton of pressure.

 

Yes, adjustments often have to be made, but the best managers realize when THEY are the ones who need to change to fit a particular situation or employee and not vice versa, so it isn't always the employee that needs to adjust or change.

 

If Idzik can help Rex see where he has shot himself in the foot and hurt both himself and the team in the past, and help him to learn and grow, great.  Rex is an excellent DC in many aspects and if he can learn and gain some discipline, then he can perhaps become a very good, if not great HC.  That remains to be seen however.  Rex has talked a good game about realizing that he needs to change and grow, but I haven't seen much, if any, evidence that he actually has changed or grown.  Unless he's radically different from his father, I just don't see it happening.

 

As for why he would fire Rex in year 2, there are a number of reasons.  As has been discussed, he's probably evaluating Rex on a lot more than just the W-L record.  If he was only evaluating on the W-L record and the team was rebuilding, then no, he wouldn't or shouldn't even consider firing Rex.  OTOH, if the team plays shoddily, without discipline or accountability, if the same mistakes are made that have been made in previous seasons, then imo that would be a very good reason for firing Rex.  Even though there are a number of rookies and cheap FAs who will be seeing significant time, a good HC would mold them into playing solidly.  The team could show up for every game, show progress, toughness, play smart, not beat themselves, be in every game until the final gun, and still have a poor record.  The HC could play the young guys to see what he has and develop them.  Those would be reasons to not consider firing Rex.   Conversely, one or more units of the team could continue to not show up at all or show up late, play with shoddy fundamentals, no discipline, beat themselves, be a circus in the locker room, and that would be ample justification for firing Rex.

 

I disagree that Rex has taken a mediocre team far into the playoffs.  The talent and level of play of those 2009-2010 teams was FAR above the last 2 years.  Rex inherited the talent on the 2009-2010 teams and had at least some input into the drafting and development of the 2011-2012 teams.

 

I'm totally puzzled as to why you are so blind to Rex's faults and love him so much.  He isn't what you think he is.  He's 10x more buffoon than he is great.

 

Meh, I was just talking in generalities.  For example; I've had 2 new Directors come into my office in as many years.  I'm the top producer in my office but each of them has a style and preference of how the office should operate.  An office that I've been a top producer/leader in for many years before their presence.  Their expectations of their top producer of how to develop business, relationships and how to lead the team are drastically different and I had to conform to both.  Therefore, I've had to adjust my management style and the way I run my business to cater to them.  If not, I was out the door, even though that would mean they are losing their top performer.  So maybe he's not, "putting him on notice" but wants to see certain things run differently in order for him to earn the job for the next coming years.  Overall, you seem to be in the camp of he's evaluating Rex this season which leaves the door open for extension, which is kind of what the lot of us are arguing.  Rex's fate isnt set in stone the way Scott and TOm make it seem.

 

In regards to the bold: Rex Ryan inherited a steaming pile of sh*t with a bunch of vets on their last leg.  He took a sh*t defense, made them the best in the league.  He inherited Kellen Clemens, Thomas Jones and Jerricho Cotchery - an offense arguably much worse than what they are working with now, threw a rookie QB in there and produce the best running game in the league.  75% of that roster was going to have to be made over in the next coming years.  It was mediocre, at best, and Rex got them deep 2 years in a row.  Tanny didnt do a good job of finding adequate replacements, largely because of his idiotic use of the cap and penchant for trading picks away.  Rex Ryan in his first 2 years, had 7 total draft picks.  7.  This was all bound to happen and the Jets were lucky to have a HC that was able to get the most out of an average group with the worst QB in the league for a couple of years and still keep the Jets in the playoff hunt the following season with rosters void of any talent outside of CB.

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Meh, I was just talking in generalities.  For example; I've had 2 new Directors come into my office in as many years.  I'm the top producer in my office but each of them has a style and preference of how the office should operate.  An office that I've been a top producer/leader in for many years before their presence.  Their expectations of their top producer of how to develop business, relationships and how to lead the team are drastically different and I had to conform to both.  Therefore, I've had to adjust my management style and the way I run my business to cater to them.  If not, I was out the door, even though that would mean they are losing their top performer.  So maybe he's not, "putting him on notice" but wants to see certain things run differently in order for him to earn the job for the next coming years.  Overall, you seem to be in the camp of he's evaluating Rex this season which leaves the door open for extension, which is kind of what the lot of us are arguing.  Rex's fate isnt set in stone the way Scott and TOm make it seem.

 

In regards to the bold: Rex Ryan inherited a steaming pile of sh*t with a bunch of vets on their last leg.  He took a sh*t defense, made them the best in the league.  He inherited Kellen Clemens, Thomas Jones and Jerricho Cotchery - an offense arguably much worse than what they are working with now, threw a rookie QB in there and produce the best running game in the league.  75% of that roster was going to have to be made over in the next coming years.  It was mediocre, at best, and Rex got them deep 2 years in a row.  Tanny didnt do a good job of finding adequate replacements, largely because of his idiotic use of the cap and penchant for trading picks away.  Rex Ryan in his first 2 years, had 7 total draft picks.  7.  This was all bound to happen and the Jets were lucky to have a HC that was able to get the most out of an average group with the worst QB in the league for a couple of years and still keep the Jets in the playoff hunt the following season with rosters void of any talent outside of CB.

 

Having worked at Goldman Sachs for 9 years, I'm all too aware that new managers and directors come in and demand top performers to change.  Notice I said that the best managers aren't so rigid or egotistical, they realize when something is working really well and adapt themselves.  Unfortunately, in many cases (as it was with you), people all too often have to have things their way either because they only know how to do things one way or their egos have run amok.  Sorry you had to go through that.  Each should have been thankful to have you, and perhaps after they had been there a good while, if they thought there were minor things that they could tweak to make you even more successful, suggested those things, but should have left you alone.

 

I do think Idzik is going to try to look at the Rex situation objectively, with an open mind.  I don't think he will totally forget about the last two years, but will use them as a comparison to see how much, if any, Rex has learned, changed and/or grown.  If he thinks Rex deserves an extension, then Rex will get one.  I wouldn't hold my breath on that however.

 

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on the differences in talent between the 2009 and 2010 teams because I don't think you could possibly be more wrong.  We don't have a WR now as good as Jerricho Cotchery.  I don't understand why you diss him so.  He always came up big when the game was on the line, gave his all, had great hands, could get open and was a great Jet.  

 

Thomas Jones was never all that during his career until he came to the Jets, and I think he had his two best years or two of his three best years while he was with the Jets.  He was a solid player, and a leader in the locker room.  Greene can't even sniff his jock strap, nor can any of the other Jets' RBs at present.  You forget that Sanchez's first 2 seasons in the league were 2009-2010.  Those should have been his worst years, not his best.

 

It's funny that when he got rid of the players from that sh*t defense in 2009 and 2010 (primarily the DBs and DL), the D actually went downhill.  The players he should have gotten rid of (or benched due to the cap), were Pace and Thomas, and he left them alone.

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Difference is those player coaches get tuned out because they're morons who have no football sense.  Rex may come off as a moron to most but deficiencies in football intelligence is NOT one of his flaws. 

 

You cannot simply put Herm and Rex in the same boat, much like you couldn't put Herm and Pete Carroll in the same boat.  One was a buffoon who doesn't know what he's doing, another is a buffoon who appears to know exactly what he's doing.  Rex is far more like Carroll than he is like Herm.  All it took for Carroll to have success was to find Russell Wilson.  If Geno has half the success Wilson did his rookie year Rex will look great.

 

Pete Carroll has no football sense?  The Seattle Seahawks say hello.  Pete was an excellent DC for the Jets before he became their HC.  He was immature and childish and wanted to be their pal and that's why he failed miserably.  He said that it took his getting fired from both the Jets and Pats for him to really do some soul searching and harsh analysis of his philosophy and approach.  He said that he may not have learned if it weren't for those firings, but DID learn, and we see the result now with Seattle.  I think you're wrong to give Russell Wilson all the credit with Carroll's improvement as a HC.

 

Even if Smith turns out to be almost as good as Wilson, I don't think that Rex will ever look great to most, precisely because he is a buffoon.  He may be very knowledgeable and creative with defenses, but not as a HC and not as a person.

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  I don't know how you really use this season as a extend or fire year.  Of course if the Jets wind up 8-8 and the defense is good, Sanchez looks like a QB or Smith looks like a good QB, and the draft picks look like they have a good future,  you keep him.  But that's if everything is wonderful.   Most of the time there are good things and bad things. What if Smith isn't ready or Sanchez sucks and the Jets wind up 6-10 again?     Not a lottery type of team, but not good.  Do you fire Rex then even though you already know Sanchez sucks and Geno is a work in progress?

 

 

  The only thing I see this season is if Rex acts like a buffoon and the players dont respect him at all and wind up tanking.  Then you can say, dump him.  But who knows, at this point if Idzik makes excuses for Goodson, how is he any different than the last Circus atmosphere?     To me Goodson needs to be cut.  You want to change the environment  well you dump players like Goodson who aren't that good to be getting away with things like last night.  And that goes onward to Rex.  If Rex is the buffoon and obnoxious blowhard and the jets finish 6-10, you dump him.   If he's still obnoxious but they got 8-8 and look like they have a future, you keep him.   

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Well we certainly aren't winning many games next season if that's what you're looking for.  Tell me, what criteria SHOULD Idzik be using this season?  Win the Super Bowl or Rex is fired?  Then hire whom?

 

What criteria Idzik uses will depend a lot upon how much he knows about Rex's HC career with the Jets to date.  If he is up to speed with all that has happened, I think he sat down with Rex with a laundry list of improvements and changes that he wants to see.

 

Among them are:

 

1) Rex keeping his yap shut - no more predictions, no more stupid comments to the media, no more negative interactions with fans

 

2) Player accountability - Rex needs to become more disciplined himself and so do his players.  No more blind loyalty.  If a player isn't playing well, he gets his butt benched for at least a game or two or until he earns his starting spot back

 

3) Be better with game plans and in-game adjustments

 

4) Demonstrate that he has a better handle on ALL of the units of the team and is IN CONTROL, no more surprise or shock that the OC isn't doing what he wanted, no more games where one or more units don't show up for a quarter or half

 

5) Improved pressure on opposing QBs and doing a better job of getting off the field on 3rd downs

 

6) The offense playing at a higher level and scoring more points

 

7) There be clear signs that the team is coming together, playing 4 solid quarters of football week in and week out, and reason for hope and excitement for 2014 and going forward.

 

There may be others as well that those behind the scenes can point to that we fans don't know about.

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