Vrentas: 10 Things Rex Thinks

[dbatesman]

in the 60s it was called counterculture, now it's called "circus" and it's not just the coach who is to blame. This franchise has an inferiority complex that can be seen from space. 

 

It seems unfair to generalize JiF's pathology to the whole franchise.

[Matt39]

Why would A list coach want this job? Are the Jets an A list franchise? I'll give em B list but that's only because of something that happened before most of us were born. 

 

Who are these A list coaches that are available?

[jetsjetsjetss]

please it all comes down to one thing. The QB

 

if we had just drafted andrew luck we would have to beat away all the people who would wanna coach with a stick

[JoeKlecko]

Rex grew up as a ball boy under Weeb. The new guy Idzik was also around the team when his dad was the OC in the late 70's. 

 

BL you can't find "football guys" who want to work in this city. 

 

most of the league are good ole boys from SEC country who would rather die than work in the Sodom of NYC. many are snobs like Cowher who only want to work for "original" NFL franchises. There are other so called great coaches who don't want to go to a place without a star QB. 

 

this is a real thing. It is reflected in the FA signings. A team should have people working here who want to be here. 

 

 

 

Yes they can fire Rex but the question we need to ask is who would replace him?

 

The guys who have a real resume and would be better don't want this job. They could get an untested guy this is true. But how is that better? He's the best defensive mind in the game you don't throw that away for nothing. 

 

Being from the South and living there again now, I can vouch that many Southerners wouldn't want to live in NYC.  Some love going there to go to shows and partake of the cuisine in the great restaurants, but many have no desire to even visit.  I don't know if that really affects football coaches, but it's not too hard to imagine that it would some.  NYC being a "Sodom" may have something to do with it, but the cost of living, noise, dirt, crowds, lousy schools, and concern for the safety of their wife and children have more to do with it.

 

I've never heard of the "snob" thing before.  Where did you hear that?  It could certainly be true, but again, I think it's very probable that the Jets miserable history, having a complete moron for an owner, an incompetent GM, and a joke for a starting QB have more to do with why Cowher or others wouldn't be interested in the Jets' job.  Then there's also having to share a stadium with the Giants.  The Jets remain the ONLY professional franchise that have NEVER had their own home.  It's an effing disgrace.  This franchise deserves every bit of bad luck that it has ever had and then some.

 

I agree that a team should have people working for it that want to be there.  

 

Asking who could possibly replace Rex is a fair question, and should be addressed by Idzik and Woody if they are considering firing Rex. 

 

I disagree that anyone with a quality resume wouldn't be interested in the Jets job.  Why wouldn't they?  HC gigs don't come along every day.  If the Jets flounder again this season, that new HC would come in with a chance to build his own team, be the new GM's hire, and with the talent here, could easily and quickly turn things around and be viewed as a savior, and he'd be doing it in the biggest media market in the nation.  I'm sure that there are coaches out there (especially defensive coordinators) who with the talent that the Jets are starting to assimilate would jump at the chance to get the HC gig with the Jets, especially now that the Jets seem to have at least a competent and real GM running the draft.  As always, the owner is the wild card.

[JoeKlecko]

Isn't she the one who ratted out the team when they were cat-calling that Mexican butterface journalist with the tight jeans & the great ass?

 

She's another woman.  What do you expect?  She probably wondered what they had said about her behind her back.

[JoeKlecko]

Of course not. We all agree on this. But it's not because of Joe Willie's sideburns or some red state-blue state divide. It's because we don't have a QB and the owner's a putz.

 

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[JoeKlecko]

in the 60s it was called counterculture, now it's called "circus" and it's not just the coach who is to blame. This franchise has an inferiority complex that can be seen from space. 

 

It's an inferiority complex that the last two dumbass owners have carefully cultivated.  Both of them knew less about football combined than a nine year-old.  They never built the team its own stadium so they would have a true home place that was theirs that they could take pride in.  Neither (to date) hired an experienced, quality football man as President of the team to make all football decisions.  Instead, they hired marketing and business types and attorneys.  Both made horrendous decision after another making decisions about GMs and HCs.  Both were pussies and let their HCs make a complete and utter joke and disgrace of the franchise.  Because Hess refused to get help from a knowledgeable, experienced football man running the team, there was never any continuity and there was a coaching carousel, and because his GMs were incompetent, the cupboard was often bereft of talent.  

 

At least Woody is starting to show that there may be some hope for him and the team, but if it's true that Idzik doesn't have the ability to fire Rex, then that hope is extremely limited. 

[SenorGato]

Rex Ryan will be the breakout Jet of 2013. I legitimately believe he's a talent at this point. 

[stoicsentry]

Of course not. We all agree on this. But it's not because of Joe Willie's sideburns or some red state-blue state divide. It's because we don't have a QB and the owner's a putz.

 

In what sense is Johnson a "putz", and how does him being one impact anything? I'll tell you one thing I'm looking at if I'm going for a head coaching job: Johnson has proven time and time again that he is willing to go up to the salary cap to bring in big free agents. There's a bunch of teams out there that don't even come close to the cap.

 

t's an inferiority complex that the last two dumbass owners have carefully cultivated.  Both of them knew less about football combined than a nine year-old.  They never built the team its own stadium so they would have a true home place that was theirs that they could take pride in.

 

I don't understand how you can blame Johnson for this, as he clearly tried to do just that with the Westside stadium.

 

Neither (to date) hired an experienced, quality football man as President of the team to make all football decisions.  Instead, they hired marketing and business types and attorneys.  Both made horrendous decision after another making decisions about GMs and HCs.

 

Look at how many times we've made the playoffs the past 13 years. Now look at how many times the Bills have. By no means does that indicate greatness, to compare yourself to a team like the Bills, but this mantra about the Jets being a bunch of perpetual losers just isn't true... not factually at least.

[JoeKlecko]

In what sense is Johnson a "putz", and how does him being one impact anything? I'll tell you one thing I'm looking at if I'm going for a head coaching job: Johnson has proven time and time again that he is willing to go up to the salary cap to bring in big free agents. There's a bunch of teams out there that don't even come close to the cap.

 

 

 

I don't understand how you can blame Johnson for this, as he clearly tried to do just that with the Westside stadium.

 

 

 

Look at how many times we've made the playoffs the past 13 years. Now look at how many times the Bills have. By no means does that indicate greatness, to compare yourself to a team like the Bills, but this mantra about the Jets being a bunch of perpetual losers just isn't true... not factually at least.

 

How does Johnson being a putz have anything to do with this?  He hired Tanny, an attorney and bean counter to be the GM.  He hired one, if not two marketing people as the team President.  Because of his refusal to allow the GM to make the decision on Rex, many top quality GM candidates had no interest in taking the GM job.   He failed miserably to get the Jets their own home after vowing that he would.  He totally screwed the pooch on the West Side Stadium.  Everyone living in NYC at the time knew the Dolans were going to do all they could to block it and Sheldon Silver a Senator from upstate made no bones that they were going to block it.  He didn't do his homework, glad handing, and grease the skids (or pockets) so he could get it done, and failing that, he failed to have a backup plan for a site.  He was forced as a result to go crawling back to the Giants.  There were places in Westchester of Long Island where the stadium could have been built.  He turned his back on the Long Island fan base totally moving the team to NJ.

 

The only good things Woody has done are: being willing to spend to bring in FAs; perhaps hiring Rex; building the state of the art practice facility; and using the search firm to hire Idzik.

 

Yes, things have gotten better than they were under Hess.  We are grateful for that, but things still aren't as they should be.  We are perhaps finally on the right road, but that remains to be seen.

[Bleedin Green]

Bitonti stated that top personnel men and coaches don't take the Jets job because they're averse to the Northeast. I disagreed. Coaches with leverage pick their owners. Woody, because he pretty clearly likes to dictate personnel moves based on marketability at times, would preclude one of those top coaches from coming here.

The three coaches that have been hired here were C-list guys. Herm was a nobody position coach who got an interview due to The Rooney Rule. Mangini was Belichick's errand boy at the time he was hired, and even that was because him and Tanny were personal friends. Rex had been interviewed several times with no luck, and was passed over in Baltimore for a Special Teams coach. We can believe that coaching for Woody isn't a detriment when Woody hires a guy who isn't off the C-list.

 

I don't disagree that bitonti's points are off the mark, I just don't particularly agree with yours either.  The truth is that, looking at the varying logic you're using for each coach, there's not a single coach in the league you wouldn't be able to come up with a similar description of why they were a crappy candidate if you weren't happy with them after 4 years on the job.  It's not like the Jets had the opportunity to hire a head coach who was days removed from a Super Bowl victory and even if they did, I'm sure we'd hear how his prior team not retaining him proves why he was a second rate coach.

 

Just because the Jets have made some sh*tty choices in their coaching hires doesn't suddenly prove a conspiracy theory about nobody worth a damn wanting anything to do with the lowly and pathetic Jets.  After all, was Jim Harbaugh a sh*tty candidate in 2009 when he interviewed with the Jets and lost out to Rex for the job?  And if so, does that turn the 9ers into some second-rate team because he was the best coach they interviewed, despite his subsequent success?  Or are these candidates only "c-list" when they interview for the Jets?

[T0mShane]

I don't disagree that bitonti's points are off the mark, I just don't particularly agree with yours either. The truth is that, looking at the varying logic you're using for each coach, there's not a single coach in the league you wouldn't be able to come up with a similar description of why they were a crappy candidate if you weren't happy with them after 4 years on the job. It's not like the Jets had the opportunity to hire a head coach who was days removed from a Super Bowl victory and even if they did, I'm sure we'd hear how his prior team not retaining him proves why he was a second rate coach.

Just because the Jets have made some sh*tty choices in their coaching hires doesn't suddenly prove a conspiracy theory about nobody worth a damn wanting anything to do with the lowly and pathetic Jets. After all, was Jim Harbaugh a sh*tty candidate in 2009 when he interviewed with the Jets and lost out to Rex for the job? And if so, does that turn the 9ers into some second-rate team because he was the best coach they interviewed, despite his subsequent success? Or are these candidates only "c-list" when they interview for the Jets?

I'm not sure I understand the question. They were C-list candidates because they were C-list candidates, with or without my alleged Jets bias. If we hired, say, Jon Gruden, he would obviously not have been a C-list candidate, and I hate Jon Gruden.

[Bleedin Green]

I'm not sure I understand the question. They were C-list candidates because they were C-list candidates, with or without my alleged Jets bias. If we hired, say, Jon Gruden, he would obviously not have been a C-list candidate, and I hate Jon Gruden.

 

Your evaluation that every candidate the have Jets even interviewed since Woody showed up is C-list is certainly subjective, so I'm not sure you wouldn't convince yourself of this still being the case regardless of what candidates the Jets had interviewed.  Thus my point in citing someone now considered one of the league's best head coaches as a past Jets' "c-list" interviewee.  While you specifically mentioned those eventually hired, your entire premise was based on the concept of absolutely no "top candidates" (by your definition) even being interested.  Of course if you're saying that only the individuals the Jets eventually hired are the C-listers, not all those who interviewed with them, then it pretty much contradicts the point you were trying to make in the first place, as it would suggest that the issue was the decisions, not the candidates.

[T0mShane]

Your evaluation that every candidate the have Jets even interviewed since Woody showed up is C-list is certainly subjective, so I'm not sure you wouldn't convince yourself of this still being the case regardless of what candidates the Jets had interviewed. Thus my point in citing someone now considered one of the league's best head coaches as a past Jets' "c-list" interviewee. While you specifically mentioned those eventually hired, your entire premise was based on the concept of absolutely no "top candidates" (by your definition) even being interested. Of course if you're saying that only the individuals the Jets eventually hired are the C-listers, not all those who interviewed with them, then it pretty much contradicts the point you were trying to make in the first place, as it would suggest that the issue was the decisions, not the candidates.

Is this a WIFOM thing?

[jack48]

people forget that Bill belichek was considered a great DC but below average as a hc before he got Tom Brady and Adam Vinatieri making miracles. Rex is still real young by HC standards and he is capable of improving. 

 

 

people forget that Bill belichek was considered a great DC but below average as a hc before he got Tom Brady and Adam Vinatieri making miracles. Rex is still real young by HC standards and he is capable of improving. 

 

That is true.  I will give you that.  Trouble is, he has to date shown zero signs of growing up.  His I-Gotta-Me rant is infantile, he talks way too much, and he betrays an essentially illogical mind.  Can he coach defense?  no question.  But that is still all we know about him.  And I know this sounds treasonous, but the last thing I need from my head coach on an NFL team, is loyalty.  If a guy cannot cut it, I want him out of here, post haste.  I also do not want to hear how great everybody is.

[SayNoToDMC]

And I know this sounds treasonous, but the last thing I need from my head coach on an NFL team, is loyalty. If a guy cannot cut it, I want him out of here, post haste. I also do not want to hear how great everybody is.

for a guy who talks SB so much he sure does love giving out participation badges all the time.

[Sperm Edwards]

I'm curious what level candidate both SB coaches were when they were hired.  The SB winning coach was a special teams coach, which is lower than a DC in anybody's book.  If Rex was a C-list candidate then Jim Harbaugh (who got the job over Rex) was a D-list candidate.  And incidentally, Baltimore interviewed both of them, so they interviewed C- and D-list candidates.

 

When BB resigned as HC of the NYJ who here can say they were certain this would be a bad thing for the Jets? At the time what was going through my mind - and the mind of anyone who isn't lying - was that it sucked that Parcells was stepping down & leaving the team to BB who had already "proven" that he was a top DC but being HC was above his capabilities (Peter Principle and all that).

 

The "everybody here is awesome" stuff & general public buffoonery isn't my taste in a HC, but it's the guy's personality.  I'd be FAR more concerned if there was a legion of ex-Ryan players who said the guy is too silly to be taken seriously & he was therefore not respected by the players.  Not even anonymous quotes (or none I can recall reading) alluding to that.  Only things I read are players & ex-players using the "defensive genius" label to describe him. 

 

We'll see.  If it's more of the same (blustering with poor results) there will be a new Jets coach in 2014.  The thing I hold out hope for is that he's shown to be a top-notch DC and defensive coach in general.  That requires more than rah-rah garbage that was all a coach like Herm had to offer.  It requires intelligence and the ability to strategize.  It means he can learn.  Someone like Herm was hopeless because he was a fool who had never really proven to be a good or great coach who had to outsmart any other coach at either the pro or collegiate level.  Rex, meanwhile, was able to out-coach the "genius" BB with his HOF QB & NFL's #1 offense in the playoffs in their own house, and did it without anything resembling an above-average pass-rusher (and it was an even more impressive bounce-back considering the beating they'd just put on us a month earlier).

 

So again, we'll see.  His ability to (even if occasionally) out-coach the "genius" HC's of the league is the only thing I'm holding out hope for with him, as far as becoming a well-rounded (or even just a better-rounded) head coach. 

[Bleedin Green]

Is this a WIFOM thing?

 

I don't know, is it?

[Jacked4JetsFB]

I love Rex, absolutely love him. Best coach this franchise has ever had. That said, if there is one question about Rex is if he will ever get a very good offense. You just cannot win anymore in this league on defense alone, the rules have changed way to much. Rex was saddled with Schottenhiemer, but he chose Sparano and Morningwood. Sparano was awful, even considering how bad Sanchez was, Sparano was terrible. To me it really comes down to Morningwood as far as if Rex can be a successful head coach, at least with the Jets. This is his second OC hire as HC. If Morningwood is not not at least good, not great, but good, I think Rex can be in trouble as a HC. It would signal that he is not competent enough to even get a good OC. I personally believe that OC's and DC's are the most important part of a team AFTER the QB, but the OC helps to make the QB. If Morningwood fails, I just don't know how many more OC's Rex gets to work with even as the best Defensive mind in the game.

[bitonti]

I love Rex, absolutely love him. Best coach this franchise has ever had. That said, if there is one question about Rex is if he will ever get a very good offense. You just cannot win anymore in this league on defense alone, the rules have changed way to much. Rex was saddled with Schottenhiemer, but he chose Sparano and Morningwood. Sparano was awful, even considering how bad Sanchez was, Sparano was terrible. To me it really comes down to Morningwood as far as if Rex can be a successful head coach, at least with the Jets. This is his second OC hire as HC. If Morningwood is not not at least good, not great, but good, I think Rex can be in trouble as a HC. It would signal that he is not competent enough to even get a good OC. I personally believe that OC's and DC's are the most important part of a team AFTER the QB, but the OC helps to make the QB. If Morningwood fails, I just don't know how many more OC's Rex gets to work with even as the best Defensive mind in the game.

 

offense is as good or as bad as their QB. there's no offense in the league that has awful QB and still productive. OC's don't play the game they just draw it up. 

[Jacked4JetsFB]

offense is as good or as bad as their QB. there's no offense in the league that has awful QB and still productive. OC's don't play the game they just draw it up. 

 

Are you suggesting that an OC is worthless, that is insane? A good OC can do a few things, first off, they can exploit a defenses weaknesses, by game planning, and even more so by setting up plays. Second off, they truly understand their own players strengths and limitations and game plan and call plays around those. Joe Montana may be an unknown if not for Walsh.

[JoeKlecko]

I'm curious what level candidate both SB coaches were when they were hired.  The SB winning coach was a special teams coach, which is lower than a DC in anybody's book.  If Rex was a C-list candidate then Jim Harbaugh (who got the job over Rex) was a D-list candidate.  And incidentally, Baltimore interviewed both of them, so they interviewed C- and D-list candidates.

 

When BB resigned as HC of the NYJ who here can say they were certain this would be a bad thing for the Jets? At the time what was going through my mind - and the mind of anyone who isn't lying - was that it sucked that Parcells was stepping down & leaving the team to BB who had already "proven" that he was a top DC but being HC was above his capabilities (Peter Principle and all that).

 

The "everybody here is awesome" stuff & general public buffoonery isn't my taste in a HC, but it's the guy's personality.  I'd be FAR more concerned if there was a legion of ex-Ryan players who said the guy is too silly to be taken seriously & he was therefore not respected by the players.  Not even anonymous quotes (or none I can recall reading) alluding to that.  Only things I read are players & ex-players using the "defensive genius" label to describe him. 

 

We'll see.  If it's more of the same (blustering with poor results) there will be a new Jets coach in 2014.  The thing I hold out hope for is that he's shown to be a top-notch DC and defensive coach in general.  That requires more than rah-rah garbage that was all a coach like Herm had to offer.  It requires intelligence and the ability to strategize.  It means he can learn.  Someone like Herm was hopeless because he was a fool who had never really proven to be a good or great coach who had to outsmart any other coach at either the pro or collegiate level.  Rex, meanwhile, was able to out-coach the "genius" BB with his HOF QB & NFL's #1 offense in the playoffs in their own house, and did it without anything resembling an above-average pass-rusher (and it was an even more impressive bounce-back considering the beating they'd just put on us a month earlier).

 

So again, we'll see.  His ability to (even if occasionally) out-coach the "genius" HC's of the league is the only thing I'm holding out hope for with him, as far as becoming a well-rounded (or even just a better-rounded) head coach. 

 

I honestly was pissed that Parcells and Hess basically ran BB off.  I've talked before on this site of my almost total disdain for Parcells.  I had wanted Hess to sell the team for years and he didn't.  The old bastid picked that time to die or sell the team, and I don't blame BB for not wanting to stay amidst that uncertainty and have to deal with Parcells still as his "boss."  He felt it was time to get out from under Parcells' shadow.

 

I liked BB at the time and thought he would be a much better HC than anyone else that was out there.  He was the great DC of the time and frequently outcoached his rival OCs.

 

I never blamed BB and got mad at him like so many Jets fans did.  I only grew to despise BB later when he became Belicheat and showed what a low class asswipe he is.

[bitonti]

Are you suggesting that an OC is worthless, that is insane? A good OC can do a few things, first off, they can exploit a defenses weaknesses, by game planning, and even more so by setting up plays. Second off, they truly understand their own players strengths and limitations and game plan and call plays around those. Joe Montana may be an unknown if not for Walsh.

 

I didn't say that. What I did say is that an OC can't overcome bad QB'ing. or make a bad QB into a great one. Bill Walsh hand picked Joe Montana and built an offensive system around him. People want to bash Rex for not being an offensive mind but even great offensive minds need raw materials. I don't think Bill Walsh would turn around Mark Sanchez' career.  

[Jacked4JetsFB]

I didn't say that. What I did say is that an OC can't overcome bad QB'ing. or make a bad QB into a great one. Bill Walsh hand picked Joe Montana and built an offensive system around him. People want to bash Rex for not being an offensive mind but even great offensive minds need raw materials. I don't think Bill Walsh would turn around Mark Sanchez' career.  

 

Nobody can turn around Sanchez, he sucks. That said, you have two ways to get a good offense. First, get lucky enough to find an elite QB, either by drafting in the right spot at the right time, or by lucking into a later round one. The other way is to find a serviceable QB, and build up the team and the offense around him to rise him up. We are in year 5 now, and it's time to get an offense together. As I said, I love Rex and think he is the best HC we have ever had, but you cannot just chalk up our offensive situation to bad luck, yes, it's bad luck that we drafted and extended Sanchez, but at some point we have to move past him, and move on to someone else who can be successful. If you have a truly great QB, I agree that the OC may not matter all that much, but if you don't have a truly great QB, the OC is critical. Hopefully Geno is that great QB, if not, Marty better damn well be a very good OC or Rex is probably done here. There are only 3-5 truly elite QB's in the league at any one time, and they don't win the SB every year. SO, the OC is critical, you cannot sit around and wait for Tom Brady or Manning to fall in your lap.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

I honestly was pissed that Parcells and Hess basically ran BB off.  I've talked before on this site of my almost total disdain for Parcells.  I had wanted Hess to sell the team for years and he didn't.  The old bastid picked that time to die or sell the team, and I don't blame BB for not wanting to stay amidst that uncertainty and have to deal with Parcells still as his "boss."  He felt it was time to get out from under Parcells' shadow.

 

I liked BB at the time and thought he would be a much better HC than anyone else that was out there.  He was the great DC of the time and frequently outcoached his rival OCs.

 

I never blamed BB and got mad at him like so many Jets QBs did.  I only grew to despise BB later when he became Belicheat and showed what a low class asswipe he is.

This was pretty much how I felt as well. I thought Parcells was an ego maniac who only cared about himself.

 

When he recommended Badway, who brought in Herm, the 4-3 and the WCO with a team built for the vertical passing game and a 3-4, I realized that the problem was not BB, it was BP and the Jets. BB knew very well what he was in for here and smartly wanted no part of it.

[JoeKlecko]

With regards to this OC vs QB issue that has been raised, I started trying to think of QBs who didn't fare very well with one team or system, and who when they went to another team or system suddenly excelled.  So far, I've only come up with two names.  Kurt Warner was great with the Rams, as we all know. Then he went to the Giants and seemed to have lost his skills.  Then he went to the Cardinals, and we all know the outcome of that.  Did Warner suddenly lose his skills for a year or two while with the Giants, or was it the OC and his system that he was trying to force Warner into that made the difference?

 

Similarly, Drew Brees started out pretty well in San Diego.  He then tailed off a bit, prompting the Chargers to take Philip Rivers.  Brees went to NO and exploded.  Did the light finally go on with Brees or was it the difference in the OC and having a system that fit his skills?

 

Can anyone think of any others?  

 

Conversely, looking at great QBs who've played well in various systems, we have Peyton, of course, who has done very well with the Broncos following his great career with the Colts.  Favre played well for the Jets and very well for the Vikes following his great career with the Packers.  Again, I'm drawing a blank on others at the moment.  Any others?

[Jacked4JetsFB]

With regards to this OC vs QB issue that has been raised, I started trying to think of QBs who didn't fare very well with one team or system, and who when they went to another team or system suddenly excelled.  So far, I've only come up with two names.  Kurt Warner was great with the Rams, as we all know. Then he went to the Giants and seemed to have lost his skills.  Then he went to the Cardinals, and we all know the outcome of that.  Did Warner suddenly lose his skills for a year or two while with the Giants, or was it the OC and his system that he was trying to force Warner into that made the difference?

 

Similarly, Drew Brees started out pretty well in San Diego.  He then tailed off a bit, prompting the Chargers to take Philip Rivers.  Brees went to NO and exploded.  Did the light finally go on with Brees or was it the difference in the OC and having a system that fit his skills?

 

Can anyone think of any others?  

 

Conversely, looking at great QBs who've played well in various systems, we have Peyton, of course, who has done very well with the Broncos following his great career with the Colts.  Favre played well for the Jets and very well for the Vikes following his great career with the Packers.  Again, I'm drawing a blank on others at the moment.  Any others?

 

The challenge here is that often a player is at the end of his career when switching, ala Montana.

 

Some others I can think of, Plunket, Rich Gannon, Vinny Testaverde, Ray Lucas to an extent, was very good with the Jets in 99, and sucked with the Dolphins.

 

I don't think there is a clear answer on this, there are some great QB's, and some great OC's, than there are many who need a good fit to work. I suspect that given the right QB, Schottenheimer may be good, but I don't think he can take an average QB and make a very good offense out of it. I think there are some OC's who can take a servicable QB and make a good offense out of it. It's easy to take a great QB and make a good offense out of him. I also don't think you can use Peyton as an example, he is in a rare class where he is essentially the OC in Denver, as he was later in his time with the Colts. 

[JoeKlecko]

The challenge here is that often a player is at the end of his career when switching, ala Montana.

 

Some others I can think of, Plunket, Rich Gannon, Vinny Testaverde, Ray Lucas to an extent, was very good with the Jets in 99, and sucked with the Dolphins.

 

I don't think there is a clear answer on this, there are some great QB's, and some great OC's, than there are many who need a good fit to work. I suspect that given the right QB, Schottenheimer may be good, but I don't think he can take an average QB and make a very good offense out of it. I think there are some OC's who can take a servicable QB and make a good offense out of it. It's easy to take a great QB and make a good offense out of him. I also don't think you can use Peyton as an example, he is in a rare class where he is essentially the OC in Denver, as he was later in his time with the Colts. 

 

True.

 

Your mentioning Montana made me think of Steve Young.  He showed some promise with Tampa Bay, but just looking at stats and not being able to remember, I don't know if he didn't show more promise because the whole team sucked or if the light hadn't gone on with him yet.  Playing for Walsh and the Niners certainly brought out the best in him.  Who knows if he would have enjoyed that success on a different team with a different OC and offensive system?

 

Yes there have been several older QBs or journeymen-type QBs who have played well in various offensive systems like Plunket, Gannon, Testaverde, Garcia, and a whole slew of mediocre QBs who seem to play as poorly/well in one system as another.  This points to the obvious fact that teams just don't trade or let very good QBs walk away.

 

Just thought of another couple of names.  Matt Hasselback looked great at GB then went to Seattle and was very successful there.  Matt Flynn had a great game or two with the Packers, but so far at least, he hasn't done spit elsewhere.  I was actually surprised he did so well with the Packers as I think he has a serious lack of arm strength, maybe as bad as Chad Pennington.

 

Speaking of Chad, he left Schottenheimer's system, went to Miami and had a career year.

 

I think you're right that there are no clear answers on this one.  I think that we could probably come up with as many examples on one side of the issue as we could on the other.  For some reason, some QBs can flourish or at least play up to their potential in any system, and others seem to have to play in just the right system in order to flourish.

 

And yes, Peyton is definitely in a class by himself.

[Sperm Edwards]

I honestly was pissed that Parcells and Hess basically ran BB off.  I've talked before on this site of my almost total disdain for Parcells.  I had wanted Hess to sell the team for years and he didn't.  The old bastid picked that time to die or sell the team, and I don't blame BB for not wanting to stay amidst that uncertainty and have to deal with Parcells still as his "boss."  He felt it was time to get out from under Parcells' shadow.

 

I liked BB at the time and thought he would be a much better HC than anyone else that was out there.  He was the great DC of the time and frequently outcoached his rival OCs.

 

I never blamed BB and got mad at him like so many Jets fans did.  I only grew to despise BB later when he became Belicheat and showed what a low class asswipe he is.

 

Yeah, but back then Parcells was the guy who rescued a franchise with a (mostly) horrid history from the lowest it's ever been.  Turned them into a real team seemingly overnight.  A year later we were a money/clutch RB away from the SB (Denver had one; we didn't).  The '99 Mirer-led Jets, as it's been brought up here, was an embarrassment.  But otherwise we still had a good team and had every reason to be optimistic heading into 2000.  

 

Then "the savior" steps down and his replacement was the top-notch DC who couldn't cut it as a HC in Cleveland.  When he went to NE, initially I felt (as a fan) insulted more than upset about it, and a lot of that was because it was to a division rival as well as the manner in which it was done.  Who knew he was going to win anything? He'd never shown in the past that he was anything other than a respected DC who most recently put together our bend-but-don't-break defenses of the late 90s.

[JoeKlecko]

Yeah, but back then Parcells was the guy who rescued a franchise with a (mostly) horrid history from the lowest it's ever been.  Turned them into a real team seemingly overnight.  A year later we were a money/clutch RB away from the SB (Denver had one; we didn't).  The '99 Mirer-led Jets, as it's been brought up here, was an embarrassment.  But otherwise we still had a good team and had every reason to be optimistic heading into 2000.  

 

Then "the savior" steps down and his replacement was the top-notch DC who couldn't cut it as a HC in Cleveland.  When he went to NE, initially I felt (as a fan) insulted more than upset about it, and a lot of that was because it was to a division rival as well as the manner in which it was done.  Who knew he was going to win anything? He'd never shown in the past that he was anything other than a respected DC who most recently put together our bend-but-don't-break defenses of the late 90s.

 

True, but my hatred for Parcells colored everything.  On one hand I acknowledged (and was grateful) for what he brought to the Jets, but on the other, I thought he undid everything he had done by just quitting and walking away.  Parcells was an egomaniacal,  mercenary SOB.  He only cared about himself and his legacy.  He didn't give a darn about the Jets.  He probably only took the job for the money and so he could add to his legacy of being the savior of the woeful Jets.  Then he didn't even finish the job.  Bailed on us and in the process screwed us royally.  I don't doubt for one minute that he chuckled to himself about leaving the team in Bradway's and Groh's hands.  He's a bastid and will forever live in infamy in my mind.

[Sperm Edwards]

True, but my hatred for Parcells colored everything.  On one hand I acknowledged (and was grateful) for what he brought to the Jets, but on the other, I thought he undid everything he had done by just quitting and walking away.  Parcells was an egomaniacal,  mercenary SOB.  He only cared about himself and his legacy.  He didn't give a darn about the Jets.  He probably only took the job for the money and so he could add to his legacy of being the savior of the woeful Jets.  Then he didn't even finish the job.  Bailed on us and in the process screwed us royally.  I don't doubt for one minute that he chuckled to himself about leaving the team in Bradway's and Groh's hands.  He's a bastid and will forever live in infamy in my mind.

 

Which is why, as I said, I was more upset with Parcells stepping down than I was with BB stepping down.  Parcells hadn't shown himself to just be a mercenary until he quit here.  There was a concrete reason for leaving NE: control.  Well he had that here.  We didn't know he was going to leave early until he left early, which is why it was such a downer.  Any subsequent team thinking about hiring him after us got a much better warning.

 

And he was a douchebag, but he was our douchebag (or at the time he was) and as long as he was here I was willing to overlook anything after turning around the Kotite embarrassment.  Plus he could be a funny douchebag & wasn't just a surly a-hole devoid of any personality (the way Mangini behaved for much/most of his tenure here).  It made a difference.

 

So when Parcells announced that '99 was his last year (and then followed through on that announcement) I was let down more than when BB - HC of the NYJ for like a day - stepped down.  There wasn't the sense that we'd lost something valuable since BB wasn't proven to be a good HC yet and Parcells was widely considered to be just about the best (among the best, at worst) HC in the league back then.

 

Ah, screw them all.  At least Rex wants to be here & isn't just following whoever pays him $10/week more.  Plus he seems like a truly decent person.  In that regard, I just like him.  But I also like seeing the Jets win games and if he still proves to be only aware of the goings-on with the defense and little else, then he will be appropriately fired before the 2014 season.

[JoeKlecko]

Which is why, as I said, I was more upset with Parcells stepping down than I was with BB stepping down.  Parcells hadn't shown himself to just be a mercenary until he quit here.  There was a concrete reason for leaving NE: control.  Well he had that here.  We didn't know he was going to leave early until he left early, which is why it was such a downer.  Any subsequent team thinking about hiring him after us got a much better warning.

 

And he was a douchebag, but he was our douchebag (or at the time he was) and as long as he was here I was willing to overlook anything after turning around the Kotite embarrassment.  Plus he could be a funny douchebag & wasn't just a surly a-hole devoid of any personality (the way Mangini behaved for much/most of his tenure here).  It made a difference.

 

So when Parcells announced that '99 was his last year (and then followed through on that announcement) I was let down more than when BB - HC of the NYJ for like a day - stepped down.  There wasn't the sense that we'd lost something valuable since BB wasn't proven to be a good HC yet and Parcells was widely considered to be just about the best (among the best, at worst) HC in the league back then.

 

Ah, screw them all.  At least Rex wants to be here & isn't just following whoever pays him $10/week more.  Plus he seems like a truly decent person.  In that regard, I just like him.  But I also like seeing the Jets win games and if he still proves to be only aware of the goings-on with the defense and little else, then he will be appropriately fired before the 2014 season.

 

I hear you.  I missed your point about being more disappointed when Parcells stepped down than when BB did, and both understand that, and agree with it.  I was pissed at Parcells when he quit, then even more pissed at him for causing BB to quit.  He did show to have a more human, personable side, and who knows, if he stayed and got us to a SB, I may even have learned to like him or at least respect him a lot more.

 

I think Parcells showed his mercenary tendencies earlier than you.  I think bolting NE just so he had the ability to shop for groceries was a selfish,  egomaniacal thing to do.  Remember also that he was going to come out of retirement and take the Tampa Bay HC job, then changed his mind at the last minute.  That was as crappy thing to do.  He was also going to steal our then cap guru, Mike Tannenbaum.  At the time that pissed me off, and was part of what pushed Tanny up the ladder in NY so that he'd stay here.  If Parcells had taken the Tampa Bay job as he should have and taken Tanny with him, it could have spared us the Tannenbaum GM years and maybe we'd have a SB victory by now (but I doubt it).  Don't forget also that he went to Dallas, before Miami.

 

Even if you're right that the mercenary tendencies didn't show until later, the propensity to be an a$$hole or doucehbag was clearly evident earlier.

 

How many other quality HCs have just up and quit teams and bounced around as much as he did?

[Sperm Edwards]

I hear you.  I missed your point about being more disappointed when Parcells stepped down than when BB did, and both understand that, and agree with it.  I was pissed at Parcells when he quit, then even more pissed at him for causing BB to quit.  He did show to have a more human, personable side, and who knows, if he stayed and got us to a SB, I may even have learned to like him or at least respect him a lot more.

 

I think Parcells showed his mercenary tendencies earlier than you.  I think bolting NE just so he had the ability to shop for groceries was a selfish,  egomaniacal thing to do.  Remember also that he was going to come out of retirement and take the Tampa Bay HC job, then changed his mind at the last minute.  That was as crappy thing to do.  He was also going to steal our then cap guru, Mike Tannenbaum.  At the time that pissed me off, and was part of what pushed Tanny up the ladder in NY so that he'd stay here.  If Parcells had taken the Tampa Bay job as he should have and taken Tanny with him, it could have spared us the Tannenbaum GM years and maybe we'd have a SB victory by now (but I doubt it).  Don't forget also that he went to Dallas, before Miami.

 

Even if you're right that the mercenary tendencies didn't show until later, the propensity to be an a$$hole or doucehbag was clearly evident earlier.

 

How many other quality HCs have just up and quit teams and bounced around as much as he did?

 

With the exception of NE, where he wanted more control as a reason for leaving, all those other things came after the Jets.  In other words, there seemed to be a reasonable (for an egomaniac) reason for leaving NE and that was all we knew when he quit on us.  All that other stuff came later and you're looking at with the benefit of hindsight.  Remember, the day BB quit we were still hoping that Tuna would change his mind and it didn't seem that far-fetched.  Of course we now know that to have been a ridiculous wish, and also that he didn't seem like such a genius post-Jets, when he was apart from BB & his all-star coaching staff.

 

The propensity to job-hop like crazy we didn't really know about until he quit on us and then shopped himself all over the country.  

 

I remember the thing in TB well.  The rumored reason he passed on the job was that his marriage was going down the tubes and he didn't want his soon-to-be ex-wife getting half his HC salary as part of divorce settlements (which she'd ridiculously be entitled to under the law).