Green and White Scrimmage Recap: Part Two

[T0mShane]

--Greg McElroy has impressive poise and confidence in his throws. He was really the only quarterback out there that looked like he had a pre-snap plan of where he could throw the ball. His two long TDs were great, arcing throws that he got rid of quickly and without hesitation. McElroy looks bigger this year, thicker, but his throws still float a la post-surgery Pennington's. If the guy had an extra 5-8 MPH on his fastball, he'd be Drew Brees. He'll easily beat out the bigger-armed Matt Simms, who plays like he's never seen the playbook.

--Look out, Joe McKnight. Chad Spann is a short, stocky guy in the Bilal Powell mode and, like Powell, showed a lot of vision and toughness on his carries. While obviously not as fast or quick as McKnight, Spann ran very hard on the interior and broke a bunch of tackles on his way to some nice gains.

--Here's a quick rundown of the WR group (with the caveat that they didn't get too much action because of the defensive pressure):

1. Stephen Hill--Hill looks like he's worked hard on his lateral agility and overall toughness. He's still raw and looks awkward at times, but when he gets his shoulders turned upfield, no one could stay with him. It's going to be a process with Hill--he still looks lost trying to figure out where to run (especially on underneath patterns through zones)--but if he's allowed to play the vertical game, look out.

2. Clyde Gates--Gates looks like he belongs this year. He can really move, and he ran quick, decisive patterns that beat Dee Milliner and Kyle Wilson pretty handily. If the Jets can get anything out of the QB position, Gates could put up 50 catches easily, especially if Santonio Holmes' injury keeps him out for awhile.

3. Santonio Holmes-- Speaking of Holmes, he looked extremely spry on the field before the game, running in place and playing catch with one of the assistant coaches. He definitely didn't look like a guy that's going to miss the season.

4. Ryan Spadola and Vidal Hazelton--I grouped these two together because they're similar players. Both a tall, long-striding players who are similarly physical when fighting for the ball. On Spadola's 48-yard TD, he ran a streak down the left sideline and bodied up Eric Crocker to catch the jump ball. Hazelton, similarly, uses his body to post up for grabs, not unlike Braylon Edwards. These two will likely be competing for the last roster spot (assuming Holmes returns).

5. Braylon Edwards-- Edwards definitely looks leaner, but at no point did he look like he had any interest in competing in this game. I'm not sure he ran more than 10 yards on any play he was in on.

6. Jeremy Kerley-- Kerley looks ready to go, and should get plenty of opportunities. It's interesting to note that, unlike with Schottenheimer, the slot receivers in Mornhinweg's system get downfield for plays as opposed to only running short, underneath routes. Kerley had a chance to make a big (30+) yard catch on a Geno Smith toss, but he mis-timed his jump and dropped it at the three yard line. Giving Kerley opportunities to get deep against nickelbacks should be exciting to watch.

7. Zach Rogers-- I didn't notice him at WR, but it's interesting to note that he was the only person catching punts for the Jets. He may already have won that job.

--The TE position is going to be a problem if Winslow can't play. Cumberland looks like a wide receiver, Konrad Reulen is roster-filler, and Hayden Smith doesn't have the athleticism to run with NFL linebackers and DBs. Idzik should consider bringing in Kevin Boss, if only to have a legitimate two-way option at the position in the event that Winslow misses time.

--Robert Malone has a monstrous leg. That is all.

--If you're going to complete passes against this Jets defense, you're going to do it down the middle of the field. Demario Davis brings added quickness, and David Harris looks more athletic than he has in two years, but neither of them move well enough to close up zones effectively, and the Jet QBs went back to that well several times during the game for completions. Adding to that issue is the lack of speed at safety. Dawan Landry and Antonio Allen are going to be physical and they both look to be excellent blitzers, but neither of them display much quickness or range. When Ryan Spadola and Vidal Hazelton are taking the lid off of your defense, you've got a safety problem.

--As always, it's great to watch Antonio Cromartie toy with whatever receiver he's covering. The guy runs and changes direction with such ease that it doesn't look like he's trying all that hard to stay with his man. On the play after Vidal Hazelton caught a long TD pass from McElroy down the right sideline, Sanchez thought he'd go deep to Hazelton down the left sideline. Only this time, Cro was in coverage on Hazelton. Cromartie was stride-for-stride with Hazelton until the ball was in the air, then dropped it into another gear, separated, and caught the Sanchez bomb over his shoulder like he was the intended receiver, making Hazelton look like he was running in sand.

--The depth on the OL is awful. Caleb Schlauderaff botched a shotgun snap, and was getting handled before that. Oday Aboushi was driven back several times and needs to put weight on. And Vlad Ducasse. Help is needed here.

[eboozer]

 WOW!! Tom,
2 "Insider" reports for the price of 1. Now that's a GREAT deal!

Appreciate all that you do. I don't care what everyone else says behind your back.... Your OK in my book!

[faba]

Thanks Tom- Our receiving core does not look so bad based on your comments so far.

[eboozer]

How did Howard look in PP and running plays? Dis Colon play and if so how did he look?

 

I am worried about the speed in the center of the field. I'm hoping Rex can scheme for that.

 

"Demario Davis brings added quickness, and David Harris looks more athletic than he has in two years, but neither of them move well enough to close up zones effectively," Davis isn't slow. He just may be reacting to the read slow. Here are his combine #'s

40 Yard Dash: 4.49 seconds 20 Yard Dash: 2.55 seconds 10 Yard Dash: 1.54 seconds Bench Press: 32 reps (225 lb) Wonderlic: (N/A) (0-50)

 

Vertical Leap: 38.5 inches Broad Jump: 124 inches 20 Yd Shuttle: 4.28 seconds Three Cone: 7.19 seconds 60 Yd Shuttle: 11.65 seconds

[Gastineau Lives]

Thanks, Tom. Your green and white scrimmage recap was a good one. This team is going to overachieve big time.

[Smashmouth]

Shanes assessment once again points to the fact this defense has major Issue at LB and its funny because Rex's scheme forces Offenses to attack that weakness.

 

The Jets are stacked with so called (as some Jets fans on this site have said) studs on the D-line, IMO that remains to be seen. Wilk is the only sure bet at this stage. I say that because Im still very concerned about our LB's handling guards up the middle like Bart Scott did. Sure its probably the reason Scott's body broke down but that's the Job of ILB in a 3-4 . What LB's do in a 3-4 as compared to a 4-3 is worlds apart I hope the Jets who lined up in the 3-4 at a higher percentage last season start to switch that number around to a higher percentage of 4-3 because I do not think our LB's can handle the 3-4. Maybe even more 46 defense.

 

I have to believe Rex is leaning towards the old Buddy 46 . I think the Jets are Extremely weak at the LB position and it will probably have to be the main focus in upcoming drafts or free agency waiting on guys like Ricky Sapp (ALWAYS Hurt) or Bellore or Mauga is not going to cut it and Pace is just out right slow and disappears for huge stretches. Is there a superior all around LB on this Squad ? NO. and I think that will be this defenses issue as teams will once again destroy us with TE's and in the intermediate passing game. No one will have time to throw deep due to Rexs Pressure scheme so that will never be an issue in a Rex Ryan Defense but can we get off the field on 3rd down ? of course our offense wont be helping matters with continuous 3 and outs and I really don't see that changing much.

 

If this team is going to lose I hope we lose big and land a guy like Clowney who would be the perfect fit for a huge need on this football team.

[T0mShane]

How did Howard look in PP and running plays? Dis Colon play and if so how did he look?

I am worried about the speed in the center of the field. I'm hoping Rex can scheme for that.

"Demario Davis brings added quickness, and David Harris looks more athletic than he has in two years, but neither of them move well enough to close up zones effectively," Davis isn't slow. He just may be reacting to the read slow. Here are his combine #'s 40 Yard Dash: 4.49 seconds 20 Yard Dash: 2.55 seconds 10 Yard Dash: 1.54 seconds Bench Press: 32 reps (225 lb) Wonderlic: (N/A) (0-50)

Vertical Leap: 38.5 inches Broad Jump: 124 inches 20 Yd Shuttle: 4.28 seconds Three Cone: 7.19 seconds 60 Yd Shuttle: 11.65 seconds

Yeah, I recall Davis putting up nice times at the Combine, but it certainly didn't seem like he was playing to that speed. Learning zone coverage, I'm sure, is going to take some time for him, and maybe down the road, when he picks up the nuances, he'll play faster. Right now, though, money can be made in the middle of the field against our linebackers.

[T0mShane]

Thanks, Tom. Your green and white scrimmage recap was a good one. This team is going to overachieve big time.

FLASHBACK FRIDAY

[jetsjetsjetss]

how did milliner look?

[dbatesman]

Exactly how awesome are Wilkerson, Coples, and Richardson?

[ZachEY]

Shanes assessment once again points to the fact this defense has major Issue at LB and its funny because Rex's scheme forces Offenses to attack that weakness.

 

The Jets are stacked with so called (as some Jets fans on this site have said) studs on the D-line, IMO that remains to be seen. Wilk is the only sure bet at this stage. I say that because Im still very concerned about our LB's handling guards up the middle like Bart Scott did. Sure its probably the reason Scott's body broke down but that's the Job of ILB in a 3-4 . What LB's do in a 3-4 as compared to a 4-3 is worlds apart I hope the Jets who lined up in the 3-4 at a higher percentage last season start to switch that number around to a higher percentage of 4-3 because I do not think our LB's can handle the 3-4. Maybe even more 46 defense.

 

I have to believe Rex is leaning towards the old Buddy 46 . I think the Jets are Extremely weak at the LB position and it will probably have to be the main focus in upcoming drafts or free agency waiting on guys like Ricky Sapp (ALWAYS Hurt) or Bellore or Mauga is not going to cut it and Pace is just out right slow and disappears for huge stretches. Is there a superior all around LB on this Squad ? NO. and I think that will be this defenses issue as teams will once again destroy us with TE's and in the intermediate passing game. No one will have time to throw deep due to Rexs Pressure scheme so that will never be an issue in a Rex Ryan Defense but can we get off the field on 3rd down ? of course our offense wont be helping matters with continuous 3 and outs and I really don't see that changing much.

 

If this team is going to lose I hope we lose big and land a guy like Clowney who would be the perfect fit for a huge need on this football team.

 

LB is definitely the weakness, but come on, you can't fix everything in one season.

 

I also think Coples has proven himself to be a player already.  Maybe not a superstar yet, but he's shown he's an NFL starter.

[T0mShane]

how did milliner look?

He looked athletic. Got beat pretty bad by Clyde Gates on an out route.

[JetNation]

As we mentioned in this post, Tom Shane was at the Green and White Scrimmage.  He provided additional thoughts on what he saw, which appear below:

–Greg McElroy has impressive poise and confidence in his throws. He was really the only quarterback out there that looked like he had a pre-snap plan of where he could throw the ball. His two long TDs were great, arcing throws that he got rid of quickly and without hesitation. McElroy looks bigger this year, thicker, but his throws still float a la post-surgery Pennington’s. If the guy had an extra 5-8 MPH on his fastball, he’d be Drew Brees. He’ll easily beat out the bigger-armed Matt Simms, who plays like he’s never seen the playbook.

–Look out, Joe McKnight. Chad Spann is a short, stocky guy in the Bilal Powell mode and, like Powell, showed a lot of vision and toughness on his carries. While obviously not as fast or quick as McKnight, Spann ran very hard on the interior and broke a bunch of tackles on his way to some nice gains.

–Here’s a quick rundown of the WR group (with the caveat that they didn’t get too much action because of the defensive pressure):

1. Stephen Hill–Hill looks like he’s worked hard on his lateral agility and overall toughness. He’s still raw and looks awkward at times, but when he gets his shoulders turned upfield, no one could stay with him. It’s going to be a process with Hill–he still looks lost trying to figure out where to run (especially on underneath patterns through zones)–but if he’s allowed to play the vertical game, look out.

2. Clyde Gates–Gates looks like he belongs this year. He can really move, and he ran quick, decisive patterns that beat Dee Milliner and Kyle Wilson pretty handily. If the Jets can get anything out of the QB position, Gates could put up 50 catches easily, especially if Santonio Holmes’ injury keeps him out for awhile.

3. Santonio Holmes– Speaking of Holmes, he looked extremely spry on the field before the game, running in place and playing catch with one of the assistant coaches. He definitely didn’t look like a guy that’s going to miss the season.

4. Ryan Spadola and Vidal Hazelton–I grouped these two together because they’re similar players. Both a tall, long-striding players who are similarly physical when fighting for the ball. On Spadola’s 48-yard TD, he ran a streak down the left sideline and bodied up Eric Crocker to catch the jump ball. Hazelton, similarly, uses his body to post up for grabs, not unlike Braylon Edwards. These two will likely be competing for the last roster spot (assuming Holmes returns).

5. Braylon Edwards– Edwards definitely looks leaner, but at no point did he look like he had any interest in competing in this game. I’m not sure he ran more than 10 yards on any play he was in on.

6. Jeremy Kerley– Kerley looks ready to go, and should get plenty of opportunities. It’s interesting to note that, unlike with Schottenheimer, the slot receivers in Mornhinweg’s system get downfield for plays as opposed to only running short, underneath routes. Kerley had a chance to make a big (30+) yard catch on a Geno Smith toss, but he mis-timed his jump and dropped it at the three yard line. Giving Kerley opportunities to get deep against nickelbacks should be exciting to watch.

7. Zach Rogers– I didn’t notice him at WR, but it’s interesting to note that he was the only person catching punts for the Jets. He may already have won that job.

–The TE position is going to be a problem if Kellen Winslow can’t play. Jeff Cumberland looks like a wide receiver, Konrad Reulen is roster-filler, and Hayden Smith doesn’t have the athleticism to run with NFL linebackers and DBs. Idzik should consider bringing in Kevin Boss, if only to have a legitimate two-way option at the position in the event that Winslow misses time.

–Robert Malone has a monstrous leg. That is all.

–If you’re going to complete passes against this Jets defense, you’re going to do it down the middle of the field. Demario Davis brings added quickness, and David Harris looks more athletic than he has in two years, but neither of them move well enough to close up zones effectively, and the Jet QBs went back to that well several times during the game for completions. Adding to that issue is the lack of speed at safety. Dawan Landry and Antonio Allen are going to be physical and they both look to be excellent blitzers, but neither of them display much quickness or range. When Ryan Spadola and Vidal Hazelton are taking the lid off of your defense, you’ve got a safety problem.

–As always, it’s great to watch Antonio Cromartie toy with whatever receiver he’s covering. The guy runs and changes direction with such ease that it doesn’t look like he’s trying all that hard to stay with his man. On the play after Vidal Hazelton caught a long TD pass from McElroy down the right sideline, Sanchez thought he’d go deep to Hazelton down the left sideline. Only this time, Cro was in coverage on Hazelton. Cromartie was stride-for-stride with Hazelton until the ball was in the air, then dropped it into another gear, separated, and caught the Sanchez bomb over his shoulder like he was the intended receiver, making Hazelton look like he was running in sand.

–The depth on the OL is awful. Caleb Schlauderaff botched a shotgun snap, and was getting handled before that. Oday Aboushi was driven back several times and needs to put weight on. And Vlad Ducasse. Help is needed here.

You can follow Tom Shane on Twitter for more insight.

Follow Me:

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[T0mShane]

Exactly how awesome are Wilkerson, Coples, and Richardson?

Here was how each passing play would go: Ball gets snapped, three guys converge on the quarterback then pull up and wait for him to throw it. Hard to tell how good anyone was at DE.

[dbatesman]

Here was how each passing play would go: Ball gets snapped, three guys converge on the quarterback then pull up and wait for him to throw it. Hard to tell how good anyone was at DE.

 

Translation: MEGA AWESOME

[Maxman]

Excellent job Tom, thanks.

 

Still surprises me that the Daily News or the Post never contacted you.  The insight you provide is far superior to what they have to offer.  My bad if they did already contact you and you showed up drunk for the interview or something along those lines.

[eboozer]

Here was how each passing play would go: Ball gets snapped, three guys converge on the quarterback then pull up and wait for him to throw it. Hard to tell how good anyone was at DE.

Geno needs to learn quickly how the internal throw clock works.... 3-4 seconds and that ball needs to be out of his hand. Mark, on the other hand, has never learned that.

[T0mShane]

Excellent job Tom, thanks.

Still surprises me that the Daily News or the Post never contacted you. The insight you provide is far superior to what they have to offer. My bad if they did already contact you and you showed up drunk for the interview or something along those lines.

I'm sitting in the parking lot of the Cortland Denny's trying to inducing vomiting in an effort to purge my body of alcohol poisoning.

[T0mShane]

But thanks.

[slats]

--If you're going to complete passes against this Jets defense, you're going to do it down the middle of the field. Demario Davis brings added quickness, and David Harris looks more athletic than he has in two years, but neither of them move well enough to close up zones effectively, and the Jet QBs went back to that well several times during the game for completions. Adding to that issue is the lack of speed at safety. Dawan Landry and Antonio Allen are going to be physical and they both look to be excellent blitzers, but neither of them display much quickness or range. When Ryan Spadola and Vidal Hazelton are taking the lid off of your defense, you've got a safety problem.

The Jets have a lot of new starters, three of which play in this middle of the field. Rex's defenses are pretty complex. What you sorta said about Demario, I think, probably applies to both safeties as well - once they get more comfortable in the defense, they will play a lot faster. Once these guys get comfortable, and Rex starts scheming, some of these problems should dissipate.

Of course, the Jets have always been vulnerable to the TE in recent years, so it's worth noting. The fact that the Jets' TEs don't look good against the Jets' defense is probably a problem, too.

[T0mShane]

Here's the thing that stuck with me: The way Geno carries himself on the field. He's all business, he's in charge, and he's not deferential to the vets at all. This is a job to him. Even when he's on the sideline, there's no goofing around, there's no taking a stroll with his helmet off. If he's not warming up his arm, he's talking with coaches. I'd even call it high-strung, almost. By contrast, Sanchez is always laughing and smiling on the sideline and practice field, being a goofball. I'm not saying that one way is better than another--Brett Favre was a goofball--but it's such a marked difference between the two.

[T0mShane]

The Jets have a lot of new starters, three of which play in this middle of the field. Rex's defenses are pretty complex. What you sorta said about Demario, I think, probably applies to both safeties as well - once they get more comfortable in the defense, they will play a lot faster. Once these guys get comfortable, and Rex starts scheming, some of these problems should dissipate.

Of course, the Jets have always been vulnerable to the TE in recent years, so it's worth noting. The fact that the Jets' TEs don't look good against the Jets' defense is probably a problem, too.

Word. I remember in 09 I said the same thing about the defense--that the LBs (Pace, Scott, Harris, BLT) and safeties (Rhodes and Leonhard) were too slow and that TEs were going to kill us. The scheme accounted for it, I guess, and they were much better than the sum of their parts. Four years in, I'm still not sure how Rex pulls it off.

[T0mShane]

Geno needs to learn quickly how the internal throw clock works.... 3-4 seconds and that ball needs to be out of his hand. Mark, on the other hand, has never learned that.

Geno's problem is pre-snap. Sanchez's problem is post-snap.

[Maxman]

Geno's problem is pre-snap. Sanchez's problem is post-snap.

 

Sounds like they might have to go with Sanchez and just run the ball.

[Maxman]

Word. I remember in 09 I said the same thing about the defense--that the LBs (Pace, Scott, Harris, BLT) and safeties (Rhodes and Leonhard) were too slow and that TEs were going to kill us. The scheme accounted for it, I guess, and they were much better than the sum of their parts. Four years in, I'm still not sure how Rex pulls it off.

 

The defense always seems to be better than the roster would indicate under Rex. Which is why I like him and hope he grows as a head coach. 

 

This defense has issues but this line makes it interesting.  If they can generate legit pressure for once, this could be his best d ever (here).

[slats]

The defense always seems to be better than the roster would indicate under Rex. Which is why I like him and hope he grows as a head coach.

This defense has issues but this line makes it interesting. If they can generate legit pressure for once, this could be his best d ever (here).

Another good point. Tom describes the pass rush as getting there, stopping, and watching the QB throw the ball. Lol. Hopefully that's not a habit they bring into the games that count.

[eboozer]

Geno's problem is pre-snap. Sanchez's problem is post-snap.

Geno will learn those pre-snap reads with more reps. I'm hoping Mangold can help him with the blitz read and coverages.

 

I have been of the mindset that Mark starts and Geno comes in the week 4-6 range if we have a rough start to the season.

 

The fact that Geno's protecting the ball, while still making some plays is moving me closer to the Geno in week 1 attitude.

 

Sanchez CONTINUES to turn the ball over. If we have any chance this season, the QB needs to limit the TO to 10 or less. It's that simple.

[faba]

Mark got booed in the scrimmage- just imagine the greetting he will get at Metlife Stadium

[ZachEY]

Geno's problem is pre-snap. Sanchez's problem is post-snap.

 

Which is honestly I think the problems you'd want from a rookie who is changing systems if you had to choose.  Maybe he'll never get it, but I'd much rather try to teach him the nuances of reading a defense than teach him how to throw.

[ZachEY]

Mark got booed in the scrimmage- just imagine the greetting he will get at Metlife Stadium

 

This is largely why it's really a one man competition.

 

It's Geno vs. Himself.  If Geno plays well enough that the coaches are comfortable with him starting, it is his job.  If he doesn't, it's Sanchez's job.  Barring Sanchez turning into Aaron Rodgers over the next few weeks, this is simply a question of Geno: Yes or No.

[slats]

Which is honestly I think the problems you'd want from a rookie who is changing systems if you had to choose.  Maybe he'll never get it, but I'd much rather try to teach him the nuances of reading a defense than teach him how to throw.

Was that a shot at Tebow? I think that was a shot at Tebow!

[flgreen]

Great job T0m thanks.

 

Who knows, one day when you grow up you may become Manish Mehta

[faba]

Great job T0m thanks.

 

Who knows, one day when you grow up you may become Manish Mehta

Nah Tom wants to be Rich Cimini

[Larz]

thanks tom.  the football stuff is boring.  did you cruise Cortland looking for hookers last night on your way back to the hotel ?

 

c'mon gives us the good stuff !

[Thor99]

Nah Tom wants to be Rich Cimini

He's already....

 

Never mind.