Idzik, Rex, Geno Smith. The holy trinity!

[slats]

The hypothetical Tom that exists in your brain sounds like a real monster. I brought up point differential because the defense du jour of the Rex regime is that he's a master motivator who guides a scrappy group of super-prepared overachievers into battle each week. The final scores suggest otherwise.

Lol. It's good to see that the dreaded straw men are battling on both sides of this all important issue.

When you're assessing the efficacy of the coach you've had here for four plus years, I think a bunch of 20 point losses weighs more in his final evaluation than a bunch of 3 point losses. Not showing up is as much a coaching thing as it is a talent thing. Kudos to Rex on 5-4--it's certainly a nice accomplishment--but it's not enough of an accomplishment to simply forget the entire body of work. IMO.

No, it shouldn't be forgotten. It should be viewed as a whole.

The BS against Rex like, "he put a C on Holmes," is a few years old now. He did it, it didn't work, he didn't do it again. He seems to've learned a lot over the years about coaching a team. He's cut down on the rhetoric. He no longer claims that he can coach anyone, and the Jets stopped bringing those scumbag players in. He hired Sporano, and that was a disaster. So he came into this season wanting a more aggressive approach on offense, and hired a coordinator who could do that for him. He seems to've done a much better job with his second hire. The man has clearly learned on the job.

You don't like him, and that's fine, but I think it's difficult to dismiss the job he's doing this year. This is the coach he's developed into at this stage of his career. A coach who's getting much more out of this roster than any of us expected. He's not going back to the things he learned didn't work, and a smart boss won't hold those lessons learned against him. A smart boss will see that as a major positive. Unlike his father, Rex seems capable of adapting. An important trait.

[Scott Dierking]

It's an opinion you couldn't back up, which is why you changed the semantics of your language when proven wrong.

 

That, or you have no eye for detail.

 

If you are "managing" creatives that aren't client-focused, then it's on you.

It's an opinion that no one here can back up-it's subjective.

 

It is exactly these subjective like areas that you claim "wins". 

[Scott Dierking]

Lol. It's good to see that the dreaded straw men are battling on both sides of this all important issue.

No, it shouldn't be forgotten. It should be viewed as a whole.

The BS against Rex like, "he put a C on Holmes," is a few years old now. He did it, it didn't work, he didn't do it again. He seems to've learned a lot over the years about coaching a team. He's cut down on the rhetoric. He no longer claims that he can coach anyone, and the Jets stopped bringing those scumbag players in. He hired Sporano, and that was a disaster. So he came into this season wanting a more aggressive approach on offense, and hired a coordinator who could do that for him. He seems to've done a much better job with his second hire. The man has clearly learned on the job.

You don't like him, and that's fine, but I think it's difficult to dismiss the job he's doing this year. This is the coach he's developed into at this stage of his career. A coach who's getting much more out of this roster than any of us expected. He's not going back to the things he learned didn't work, and a smart boss won't hold those lessons learned against him. A smart boss will see that as a major positive. Unlike his father, Rex seems capable of adapting. An important trait.

Can we wait until December, when the games really matter, and where Rex has had his most recent failings, to determine "how much he has learned". This week on, week off effect is maddening. Let's judge the totality, with an emphasis on the ending, which is where personnel decisions are usually made.

[slats]

Can we wait until December, when the games really matter, and where Rex has had his most recent failings, to determine "how much he has learned". This week on, week off effect is maddening. Let's judge the totality, with an emphasis on the ending, which is where personnel decisions are usually made.

Why? We didn't even wait for the season to start to declare that he was a dead coach walking.

[JustInFudge]

Starting players is really a misnomer anymore in the NFL-it is a package oriented league-particularly on defense.

 

I feel positive that the Jets offense has seen more overall turnover than the defense from '12-'13

 

Meh, its pretty similar.  The only difference is lately because of the injuries to WR.  I guess the players are technically the "same" but just taking on a much bigger role. 

 

Exactly the way you put it-

 

Leaders will get on players for individual plays-helps accountability.

 

If you have a "general" problem with a player, because of how he plays, etc, as you put it, a leader does that OFF the field, and not in the heat of battle.

 

There is a difference.

 

Fair enough...was just curious.  

[JustInFudge]

Lol. It's good to see that the dreaded straw men are battling on both sides of this all important issue.

No, it shouldn't be forgotten. It should be viewed as a whole.

The BS against Rex like, "he put a C on Holmes," is a few years old now. He did it, it didn't work, he didn't do it again. He seems to've learned a lot over the years about coaching a team. He's cut down on the rhetoric. He no longer claims that he can coach anyone, and the Jets stopped bringing those scumbag players in. He hired Sporano, and that was a disaster. So he came into this season wanting a more aggressive approach on offense, and hired a coordinator who could do that for him. He seems to've done a much better job with his second hire. The man has clearly learned on the job.

You don't like him, and that's fine, but I think it's difficult to dismiss the job he's doing this year. This is the coach he's developed into at this stage of his career. A coach who's getting much more out of this roster than any of us expected. He's not going back to the things he learned didn't work, and a smart boss won't hold those lessons learned against him. A smart boss will see that as a major positive. Unlike his father, Rex seems capable of adapting. An important trait.

 

Never.  That thing he did 4 years ago, in that game, at that time, was inexcusable and he'll never make it right.  

[Integrity28]

It's an opinion that no one here can back up-it's subjective.

 

It is exactly these subjective like areas that you claim "wins". 

 

There's nothing subjective about you running away from your initial statement. I claim "wins" when people opt for changing what they said and/or diverting to a different argument over backing up their initial statement. 

 

I also claim "wins" when people attack my character and not my points, or when they get really, really desperate and whine "but, but, but it's subjective... nobody is right".

 

Wuss.

[Scott Dierking]

Why? We didn't even wait for the season to start to declare that he was a dead coach walking.

He has one more year on his contract, so that isn't factual.

 

Predictions, as we have all found out recently, aren't worth the paper they are printed on, or the site they are written on. Is it so wrong to see the work in totality? 

[Scott Dierking]

There's nothing subjective about you running away from your initial statement. I claim "wins" when people opt for changing what they said and/or diverting to a different argument over backing up their initial statement. 

 

I also claim "wins" when people attack my character and not my points, or when they get really, really desperate and whine "but, but, but it's subjective... nobody is right".

 

Wuss.

As I said, I stick by my original premise. You haven't proven anything. 

 

Prick.

[Integrity28]

As I said, I stick by my original premise. You haven't proven anything. 

 

Prick.

 

Yeah, okay.

[slats]

He has one more year on his contract, so that isn't factual.

 

Predictions, as we have all found out recently, aren't worth the paper they are printed on, or the site they are written on. Is it so wrong to see the work in totality?

Perhaps not, but it's certainly ironic to see you suggesting such a thing.

[Scott Dierking]

Perhaps not, but it's certainly ironic to see you suggesting such a thing.

Why is that- Prior to this year, all we had to work off of was what Rex had done in the past. Were we supposed to have a crytal ball?

 

If it were my choice, he would still be gone at end of year

[Sperm Edwards]

Knowing all of that, would you make Holmes a Captain?

 

Hey, fighting in the huddle may not be a problem-Last night on 60 minutes, they profiled Saban and showed the Ala-ND champ game last year, when Ala was up big in the second half, and the QB and Center got in a shoving match, because they each called out a separate play. Saba loved it has he thought they were trying to attain excellence.

 

In Rex's case, I always get the feeling that he would rather be that "mastermind" in the corner concocting defenses, and let the other things "take care of themselves". 

 

A head coach doesn't have that option. He can't say he was "looking the other way" when something did not go right, nor can he just hope accountability happens.

 

Maybe he is getting better there.

 

I believe he is getting better.  Two years ago he wouldn't be caught dead hiring a pass-happy OC.  He still does maddening things, but he's done a good job this year considering the talent gap from this team to others (outside of the DL in particular).  Even those who have talent, like Smith, are a LONG way from being able to use that talent well enough to be considered a top-notch (or even a good) QB.  

 

The most maddening thing from yesterday was something that went mostly unnoticed because nothing happened.  But it was inexcusable to be handing the ball off and calling real running plays to close out the game.  Should have been kneel-kneel-kneel.  What if Powell got the ball stripped & fumbled away the possession with 90+ seconds left? We were on like their 10 yard line.  I didn't do the math and don't remember now how many time outs New Orleans had, but at that part of the field - with the league's best & most automatic kicker - at worst you kneel 3x and kick a 25 yard FG to make it a 9 point game again with 20-40 seconds left.  Far greater chance of a RB fumbling than Brees orchestrating a TD drive and a FG drive in 30 seconds with no time outs left.  But since we didn't get the 1st down, it seems NO couldn't have stopped the clock enough anyway.  In short (which I'm not really capable of), kneel on it and the game is over.

 

That kind of stuff bothers me immensely.  With the change of possession there was plenty of time for someone to count on his fingers and figure it out.  Combine that with the wasted time outs of our own, and we really need a clock guy.  I don't think it's so shameful if the head coach is also the de facto DC as in Rex's case.  But he can't do it while his mind is immersed in one side of the ball.  I don't know that half the coaches could (or if 5 of them could) but that doesn't excuse not having one there for Rex.

 

I'm not even going to address the Captain Holmes thing, other than to say it was completely stupid.  Being a captain is something a player earns, not something a player is handed in hopes he un-douchebags himself due to this honor.

 

Overall I'm happy with the job he's done this season, and I think most Jets fans are as well.

[Smashmouth]

Where has the biggest change occurred? On the offense. You are putting in a new offensive system, with a rookie QB without true weaponz?

 

How does MM not get mad kudos for that?

 

Because you have fallen into the big black hole known as Integrity28

[TehFalcon63]

Geno sucks...

[Scott Dierking]

I believe he is getting better.  Two years ago he wouldn't be caught dead hiring a pass-happy OC.  He still does maddening things, but he's done a good job this year considering the talent gap from this team to others (outside of the DL in particular).  Even those who have talent, like Smith, are a LONG way from being able to use that talent well enough to be considered a top-notch (or even a good) QB.  

 

The most maddening thing from yesterday was something that went mostly unnoticed because nothing happened.  But it was inexcusable to be handing the ball off and calling real running plays to close out the game.  Should have been kneel-kneel-kneel.  What if Powell got the ball stripped & fumbled away the possession with 90+ seconds left? We were on like their 10 yard line.  I didn't do the math and don't remember now how many time outs New Orleans had, but at that part of the field - with the league's best & most automatic kicker - at worst you kneel 3x and kick a 25 yard FG to make it a 9 point game again with 20-40 seconds left.  Far greater chance of a RB fumbling than Brees orchestrating a TD drive and a FG drive in 30 seconds with no time outs left.  But since we didn't get the 1st down, it seems NO couldn't have stopped the clock enough anyway.  In short (which I'm not really capable of), kneel on it and the game is over.

 

That kind of stuff bothers me immensely.  With the change of possession there was plenty of time for someone to count on his fingers and figure it out.  Combine that with the wasted time outs of our own, and we really need a clock guy.  I don't think it's so shameful if the head coach is also the de facto DC as in Rex's case.  But he can't do it while his mind is immersed in one side of the ball.  I don't know that half the coaches could (or if 5 of them could) but that doesn't excuse not having one there for Rex.

 

I'm not even going to address the Captain Holmes thing, other than to say it was completely stupid.  Being a captain is something a player earns, not something a player is handed in hopes he un-douchebags himself due to this honor.

 

Overall I'm happy with the job he's done this season, and I think most Jets fans are as well.

I agree, there seems to have been some growth there. BUT, that is not what you judge a HC on in extending him. You judge him on whether you feel he is the guy that can lead you to the promised land with a 3-4 year (assuming average length extension) window.

 

The biggest unknown for all of us, is does he fit Idzik's mold? That is the greatest determiner. Idzik himself, with this so far good start, is gaining decision making leverage also. Maybe to the degree that he has veto power over a Woody/Rex coalition. If Idzik's natural inclination is not toward Rex, he may have earned that power of decision himself. Again, we just don't know. The man is a terrific poker player.

 

Bottom line I still believe is how this season ends, as it is for most other teams when facing these questions. The jets hold the cards here.

[Sperm Edwards]

I agree, there seems to have been some growth there. BUT, that is not what you judge a HC on in extending him. You judge him on whether you feel he is the guy that can lead you to the promised land with a 3-4 year (assuming average length extension) window.

 

The biggest unknown for all of us, is does he fit Idzik's mold? That is the greatest determiner. Idzik himself, with this so far good start, is gaining decision making leverage also. Maybe to the degree that he has veto power over a Woody/Rex coalition. If Idzik's natural inclination is not toward Rex, he may have earned that power of decision himself. Again, we just don't know. The man is a terrific poker player.

 

Bottom line I still believe is how this season ends, as it is for most other teams when facing these questions. The jets hold the cards here.

 

No one earns an extension by week 9.  Mangini had supposedly earned one by around this juncture in 2008.  By the end of December he was fired.

 

Even if he gets an extension I'm not in favor of more than a 2-year extension (giving him 3 more years total) so he doesn't have to be a lame duck HC.  Not that I give a crap if he's upset with his contract, but rather because I feel it can adversely affect his ability to get guys on the team to fall in line.   After 5 years of history to judge Rex upon, the team ought to know if they want this guy for 3 more or not at all.  Neither a 1 year extension nor letting him go coach his last year without revisiting his current deal makes any sense; he's either your guy or he isn't.  Clearly I like him better than you do, but he hasn't earned another 5 years (4 year extension).  

[Smashmouth]

I agree, there seems to have been some growth there. BUT, that is not what you judge a HC on in extending him. You judge him on whether you feel he is the guy that can lead you to the promised land with a 3-4 year (assuming average length extension) window.

 

The biggest unknown for all of us, is does he fit Idzik's mold? That is the greatest determiner. Idzik himself, with this so far good start, is gaining decision making leverage also. Maybe to the degree that he has veto power over a Woody/Rex coalition. If Idzik's natural inclination is not toward Rex, he may have earned that power of decision himself. Again, we just don't know. The man is a terrific poker player.

 

Bottom line I still believe is how this season ends, as it is for most other teams when facing these questions. The jets hold the cards here.

The fact is none of us know what Idzik is thinking.

 

IMO when it comes to REX I thought after all the bad Red flags and terrible usage of the clock early on this season that the wheels were going to fall off quick. But it looks like REX has made some strides. Maybe he turned to his staff for some help, maybe he did it on his own. He does seem a bit more stable on the sidelines and in tune to what's going on, on the offensive side of the ball. That being said we still do not know how Idzik will react when the season is over.

 

He has been the coach here for 5 years and what happened in the beginning of the year should have been learned 3 years ago.

 

The main thing you look for in a head coach when it comes to a contending football team is how will he react and respond in the playoffs ?? Will he make a bone headed call that costs you the game ? That IMO is how Rex should be evaluated. With Good players in place REX WILL WIN the question is do you trust him in a playoff atmosphere ? That's going to be Idziks call.

[T0mShane]

Lol. It's good to see that the dreaded straw men are battling on both sides of this all important issue.

No, it shouldn't be forgotten. It should be viewed as a whole.

The BS against Rex like, "he put a C on Holmes," is a few years old now. He did it, it didn't work, he didn't do it again. He seems to've learned a lot over the years about coaching a team. He's cut down on the rhetoric. He no longer claims that he can coach anyone, and the Jets stopped bringing those scumbag players in. He hired Sporano, and that was a disaster. So he came into this season wanting a more aggressive approach on offense, and hired a coordinator who could do that for him. He seems to've done a much better job with his second hire. The man has clearly learned on the job.

You don't like him, and that's fine, but I think it's difficult to dismiss the job he's doing this year. This is the coach he's developed into at this stage of his career. A coach who's getting much more out of this roster than any of us expected. He's not going back to the things he learned didn't work, and a smart boss won't hold those lessons learned against him. A smart boss will see that as a major positive. Unlike his father, Rex seems capable of adapting. An important trait.

You know, I've given him credit for growth. I even started an entire thread about it. In citing his record, I only went back to the last year and a half. I actually like Rex a lot. I think he's a good soldier and a stand-up, loyal guy. I enjoy the way he handles the media, and will handle any question that comes his way. I've liked him this year, and I won't exactly jump off a bridge if he's given the extension. I just don't believe he's shown enough to continue on. I think he's the type of coach that spins an organization's wheels. That's all.

[JoeKlecko]

No one earns an extension by week 9.  Mangini had supposedly earned one by around this juncture in 2008.  By the end of December he was fired.

 

Even if he gets an extension I'm not in favor of more than a 2-year extension (giving him 3 more years total) so he doesn't have to be a lame duck HC.  Not that I give a crap if he's upset with his contract, but rather because I feel it can adversely affect his ability to get guys on the team to fall in line.   After 5 years of history to judge Rex upon, the team ought to know if they want this guy for 3 more or not at all.  Neither a 1 year extension nor letting him go coach his last year without revisiting his current deal makes any sense; he's either your guy or he isn't.  Clearly I like him better than you do, but he hasn't earned another 5 years (4 year extension).  

 

I agree completely.  The decision regarding Rex's future with the team shouldn't be made until the end of the season when all the facts are known and also I agree that unless something dramatic happens between now and the end of the season (going undefeated the rest of the regular season and going deep into the playoffs, if not the AFC Championship Game again) he shouldn't get anything more than a two-year extension. Even if a one-year extension was offered, I'm not sure he would or should take it.  If he is given a two-year extension and doesn't develop further after this season with better offensive talent and the team continues its up and down inconsistency and blow out losses in 2014, then he should definitely be fired.

 

I like the growth I've seen in him and for the most part, the job he's done this season.  The double digit blowout losses, clock management, and late game decisions are still troubling.  I'd want to see those things corrected, before I could agree to locking him up long term.  

 

A factor in this for me is that currently, I don't like any of the HC prospects that would be available if Rex were to be fire.  I don't want to fire Rex just for the sake of firing him and potentially not be able to hire someone even as good as he is.  I would rather wait until there is a better candidate or candidates.

 

In terms of continuity, it would be better if Rex develops and stays.  It would be awesome if the team could finally have some long-term stability with Idzik and Rex IF Rex will learn and further develop.  That's one thing that has made the Steelers so good for so long.  They hired good coaches to begin with, were patient with them as they grew, and they stuck with them long term.  By and large, the Jets, aside from Weeb, Parcells and Michaels have never hired a good enough HC to be patient with.  They proved to be incompetent in short order.  Neither Coslet, Herm, nor Mangini showed much, if any growth on the job, so there was no reason to extend them. Similarly, extending Carroll wouldn't have brought any stability.  Kotite never should have been hired in the first place.  Groh and Parcells chose to leave.  Aside from perhaps Parcells, from a coaching perspective, the only Jets HC since Weeb that should have been extended was Walt Michaels, but I understand why he wasn't.  

 

Where we disagree is that I don't think a professional HC should have to have a clock manager.  IMO, if he isn't bright enough or understand the game well enough to know how to use the clock and his time outs, then any HC (not just Rex) doesn't deserve to remain a HC. 

[#27TheDominator]

The fact is none of us know what Idzik is thinking.

 

The main thing you look for in a head coach when it comes to a contending football team is how will he react and respond in the playoffs ?? Will he make a bone headed call that costs you the game ? That IMO is how Rex should be evaluated. With Good players in place REX WILL WIN the question is do you trust him in a playoff atmosphere ? That's going to be Idziks call.

 

That seems like a strange thing to question about Rex.  If anything, he has performed better in the playoffs than the regular season and despite all the sh*t about the team not showing up in Pittsburgh, I can't remember any boneheaded calls in the playoffs.