Idzik, Rex, Geno Smith. The holy trinity!

[Scott Dierking]

They installed a new offense AND revamped the special teams AND replaced like 5-6 defensive starters. That is a whole team effort. The offense still struggles to score, and turns the ball over a lot, and gives our opponents 7 points often. That's not too big a change, really. I'm not saying MM doesn't deserve credit, but you said he's more valuable than Rex.

 

That has nothing to do with giving credit where it's due. That is devaluing Rex for the sake of keeping up with your agenda and you are using a paper-thin argument about the offense to prop it up.

 

Rex deserves the credit. He could have curled up in a ball. He's doing a helluva job in a year we all thought was his lame duck season. 

I do not see the defense doing anything very different than it did the last several seasons. The schemes and a majority of the players are the same.

 

On offense, I see a dramatically different schedule of play calling and more importantly a rhythm and setting up of plays. The Jets have not had that since when, Dan Henning?

 

How can Mornhinweg not be considered the most valuable add aspect to this team in comparison? That and 23-23 from Folk

[Jetsfan80]

Thank you for your well-thought out response. You are a credit to this website and to Jets fans themselves. You could teach JetsFan80 a real lesson in civility here.

 

LOL I've many times presented my case in a civil manner so I don't want to hear it.  At this point, you've earned the responses you get.  You hate Rex just to hate him, even after a great win.  Shane, you've jumped the shark.  And at the same time, even generally anti-Rex folks like the Ape and Smashmouth are coming to his side these days.

 

At least you finally have come to terms that he's pretty much guaranteed to be coming back.  Do you really want to spend the next several years stewing in anger over that fact?

[Jetsfan80]

Where has the biggest change occurred? On the offense. You are putting in a new offensive system, with a rookie QB without true weaponz?

 

How does MM not get mad kudos for that?

 

You've killed Rex for not coaching the WHOLE team, yet give him ZERO credit when the offense shows improvement.  You can't have it both ways, Scott.

[Scott Dierking]

You've killed Rex for not coaching the WHOLE team, yet give him ZERO credit when the offense shows improvement.  You can't have it both ways, Scott.

I don't believe Rex is coaching the whole team, and that is actually to his credit-A leader should know when he should not be involved and delegate appropriately. Kudos to Rex there.

[whodeawhodat]

I do not see the defense doing anything very different than it did the last several seasons. The schemes and a majority of the players are the same.

 

On offense, I see a dramatically different schedule of play calling and more importantly a rhythm and setting up of plays. The Jets have not had that since when, Dan Henning?

 

How can Mornhinweg not be considered the most valuable add aspect to this team in comparison? That and 23-23 from Folk

 

Not siding with monkey here because I do think that MM has been the biggest difference this year.  Look at what he has to work with.  Sure we sh!t the bed a couple of games that we played against balling defenses but to not make every defense we play look like all pros is a feather in MMs cap.  And its true that Rex has his defense kicking ass still BUT the players are NOT the same.  I see Cro, Mo, Harris, Pace and Couples/Wilson?  That is less than half of the defense if you count Couples/Wilson.  I counted them as 1 player because Couples was hurt most of this year so far and Wilson isnt technically a starter.

[JoeKlecko]

Listening to the radio on the way to work this morning, I have to laugh at these talking heads and callers saying that Rex should be re-upped immediately, all this less than a week after they were all talking about throwing Rex into a hole and starting over. You Rex fanboys simply aren't seeing the forest for the trees. You don't reward Joan Crawford for leaving the hanger in the closet every couple days.

If you want Rex extended, you're going to spend the next two years continuing to make excuses for him, which is what you've done for three years now: well, Sanchez; well, Schotty; well, Mangini; well, Tanny; well, Tom Brady; well, Peyton Manning; well, no pass rusher; well, no talent; well, Sparano; well, Woody; well, Tebow; well, Belichick; etc, etc You can make lists of excuses for why every coach shouldn't win a Super Bowl, or why their team has a down year. Rex is the only coach that I've ever seen get to wallow in those excuses for three years.

Rex has coached the team to 14 losses in their last 25 games. Ten of those losses were by double digits. Six were by 20+. Three were by 30+. Overall, they've lost those games by an average of ~18 points. This is the coach you want to move forward with? Why? Because his defense shows up every so often? Because you think the offense will run autonomously?

Mark my words: if they extend Rex, you'll be back here in two years talking about another wasted decade of Jets football.

 

LOL Great metaphor, although if Christina is reading this board I doubt she likes it.

 

Also, I didn't realize the losses were that bad.  Of course, his defenders will all claim that's because the Jets have had no OC until now, and still have no offensive talent.

[T0mShane]

A loss is a loss, unless there were just unique situations that you just can't do anything about here or there (bad calls at key moments, key injuries, etc.). You're lamenting on the larger margin of losses being the coach's fault. I think that speaks to talent more than anything.

My point is you're using an agenda by killing him for a bad margin of loss. The hypocritical, agenda-driven part of that criticism is you'd be killing him more if we still lost but those games were all close ones.

IMO when we're getting clobbered so horribly it's a talent deficiency. If we're constantly losing close games then it's more likely coaching.

The hypothetical Tom that exists in your brain sounds like a real monster. I brought up point differential because the defense du jour of the Rex regime is that he's a master motivator who guides a scrappy group of super-prepared overachievers into battle each week. The final scores suggest otherwise. When you're assessing the efficacy of the coach you've had here for four plus years, I think a bunch of 20 point losses weighs more in his final evaluation than a bunch of 3 point losses. Not showing up is as much a coaching thing as it is a talent thing. Kudos to Rex on 5-4--it's certainly a nice accomplishment--but it's not enough of an accomplishment to simply forget the entire body of work. IMO.

[T0mShane]

LOL I've many times presented my case in a civil manner so I don't want to hear it. At this point, you've earned the responses you get. You hate Rex just to hate him, even after a great win. Shane, you've jumped the shark. And at the same time, even generally anti-Rex folks like the Ape and Smashmouth are coming to his side these days.

At least you finally have come to terms that he's pretty much guaranteed to be coming back. Do you really want to spend the next several years stewing in anger over that fact?

Your "argument" has consistently been to show patience after blowout losses, then to sign him long-term after wins. You're a gimpy fanboy.

[T0mShane]

LOL Great metaphor, although if Christina is reading this board I doubt she likes it.

Also, I didn't realize the losses were that bad. Of course, his defenders will all claim that's because the Jets have had no OC until now, and still have no offensive talent.

Rexfans will forget three losses to focus on one win like nothing I'd ever seen.

[dbatesman]

Rexfans will forget three losses to focus on one win like nothing I'd ever seen.

 

Amor de Sanchez < Penningtology < Rexophilia

[T0mShane]

Amor de Sanchez < Penningtology < Rexophilia

Hermania?

[dbatesman]

Hermania?

 

< Amor de Sanchez

[Sperm Edwards]

The hypothetical Tom that exists in your brain sounds like a real monster. I brought up point differential because the defense du jour of the Rex regime is that he's a master motivator who guides a scrappy group of super-prepared overachievers into battle each week. The final scores suggest otherwise. When you're assessing the efficacy of the coach you've had here for four plus years, I think a bunch of 20 point losses weighs more in his final evaluation than a bunch of 3 point losses. Not showing up is as much a coaching thing as it is a talent thing. Kudos to Rex on 5-4--it's certainly a nice accomplishment--but it's not enough of an accomplishment to simply forget the entire body of work. IMO.

 

You have no idea.  Hypothetical Tom is really awful.  Almost as bad as the real thing.

 

"Not showing up" is something that fans make up.  They show up.  Some of these knuckleheads cannot be reached, or not for long anyway.  Fans make it sound like these guys are doing bong hits in the parking lot before the game and the coach turns a blind eye to it.

 

It is not believable that, if the Jets were losing dozens of close games, you'd be there posting, "Well, at least he's getting us close.  It's not the coach's fault when we lose close game after close game." Yeah, right.

[Scott Dierking]

You have no idea.  Hypothetical Tom is really awful.  Almost as bad as the real thing.

 

"Not showing up" is something that fans make up.  They show up.  Some of these knuckleheads cannot be reached, or not for long anyway.  Fans make it sound like these guys are doing bong hits in the parking lot before the game and the coach turns a blind eye to it.

Or fighting in the huddle while the middle of a game is going on.

[Sperm Edwards]

Or fighting in the huddle while the middle of a game is going on.

 

And that has what to do with anything? Santonio Holmes, the reigning SB MVP was cast off from his prior team for a 5th round pick.  His being a scumbag is now on Rex?

 

I'm not even one of those who LOOOVEEE Rex and I can't fault him for Holmes being Holmes.  Did any of the other coaches know about it? I don't know.  Did Rex just say he knew nothing about it to avoid questions about it since it was the last PC of the season? I don't know. 

 

Coughlin won 2 SBs with the Giants and he let that crap go on as well (Tiki, Shockey, etc.).  Only retirement and injury did away with those problems.

[T0mShane]

You have no idea. Hypothetical Tom is really awful. Almost as bad as the real thing.

"Not showing up" is something that fans make up. They show up. Some of these knuckleheads cannot be reached, or not for long anyway. Fans make it sound like these guys are doing bong hits in the parking lot before the game and the coach turns a blind eye to it.

It is not believable that, if the Jets were losing dozens of close games, you'd be there posting, "Well, at least he's getting us close. It's not the coach's fault when we lose close game after close game." Yeah, right.

I think a HypotheticalT0m account needs to be started and maintained. Do we still have BrooklynJet's e-mail?

[Scott Dierking]

And that has what to do with anything? Santonio Holmes, the reigning SB MVP was cast off from his prior team for a 5th round pick.  His being a scumbag is now on Rex?

 

I'm not even one of those who LOOOVEEE Rex and I can't fault him for Holmes being Holmes.  Did any of the other coaches know about it? I don't know.  Did Rex just say he knew nothing about it to avoid questions about it since it was the last PC of the season? I don't know. 

 

Coughlin won 2 SBs with the Giants and he let that crap go on as well (Tiki, Shockey, etc.).  Only retirement and injury did away with those problems.

Knowing all of that, would you make Holmes a Captain?

 

Hey, fighting in the huddle may not be a problem-Last night on 60 minutes, they profiled Saban and showed the Ala-ND champ game last year, when Ala was up big in the second half, and the QB and Center got in a shoving match, because they each called out a separate play. Saba loved it has he thought they were trying to attain excellence.

 

In Rex's case, I always get the feeling that he would rather be that "mastermind" in the corner concocting defenses, and let the other things "take care of themselves". 

 

A head coach doesn't have that option. He can't say he was "looking the other way" when something did not go right, nor can he just hope accountability happens.

 

Maybe he is getting better there.

[Jetsfan80]

I don't believe Rex is coaching the whole team, and that is actually to his credit-A leader should know when he should not be involved and delegate appropriately. Kudos to Rex there.

 

Fair enough.

[Jetsfan80]

Your "argument" has consistently been to show patience after blowout losses, then to sign him long-term after wins. You're a gimpy fanboy.

 

Pretty sure our good wins outweigh our bad losses.  We're 5-4 this season, no?  You can't even enjoy the wins.  I'd rather be a "fanboy" than a miserable shell of a man.

[T0mShane]

I'd rather be a "fanboy" than a miserable shell of a man.

Just you wait, young'n!

[JustInFudge]

Tommy boy, let it go, let it go.  If the Jets fire Rex there will be a line of NFL team trying to hires him on the spot.  That you are arguing against the job he had done this year with this team, makes you look dumb and bias.  Do you really believe that any of our receivers yesterday make the 53 roster on any NFL team, including the Jags? Rex's game plan beat the Saints as he did against the Pats in the playoff on the way to the AFCC.   You are smarter than this, Tommy. 

 

Link? 

 

I do not see the defense doing anything very different than it did the last several seasons. The schemes and a majority of the players are the same.

 

On offense, I see a dramatically different schedule of play calling and more importantly a rhythm and setting up of plays. The Jets have not had that since when, Dan Henning?

 

How can Mornhinweg not be considered the most valuable add aspect to this team in comparison? That and 23-23 from Folk

 

He's starting 7 new defenders.  

[JustInFudge]

Knowing all of that, would you make Holmes a Captain?

 

Hey, fighting in the huddle may not be a problem-Last night on 60 minutes, they profiled Saban and showed the Ala-ND champ game last year, when Ala was up big in the second half, and the QB and Center got in a shoving match, because they each called out a separate play. Saba loved it has he thought they were trying to attain excellence.

 

In Rex's case, I always get the feeling that he would rather be that "mastermind" in the corner concocting defenses, and let the other things "take care of themselves". 

 

A head coach doesn't have that option. He can't say he was "looking the other way" when something did not go right, nor can he just hope accountability happens.

 

Maybe he is getting better there.

 

Is there any difference between the way Holmes yelled at Sanchez in the huddle for choking their season away and the way Tom Brady lights his wide-receivers up on the field between huddles?

 

Serious question.  Not trying to defend Holmes for being a scumbag.

[JustInFudge]

Pretty sure our good wins outweigh our bad losses.  We're 5-4 this season, no?  You can't even enjoy the wins.  I'd rather be a "fanboy" than a miserable shell of a man.

 

You're a stupid person for being the fan of your successful Head Coach, fan boy.

[Scott Dierking]

 

 

 

He's starting 7 new defenders.  

Starting players is really a misnomer anymore in the NFL-it is a package oriented league-particularly on defense.

 

I feel positive that the Jets offense has seen more overall turnover than the defense from '12-'13

[Bleedin Green]

Amor de Sanchez < Penningtology < Rexophilia

 

Yeah, I don't know about that one.  Who knows, maybe one day, but it's not quite there yet.  Rex needs about another 3 seasons or so of failures to be competing with the levels of Penningtology.  He'd also need to become the highest paid head coach in the league with a new contract after this season, all while letting everyone know how graciously he accepted a discount for the good of the Jets.  Besides, pretty sure Rex already has more people who dislike him than Pennyboy ever did pre-2007.

[Scott Dierking]

Is there any difference between the way Holmes yelled at Sanchez in the huddle for choking their season away and the way Tom Brady lights his wide-receivers up on the field between huddles?

 

Serious question.  Not trying to defend Holmes for being a scumbag.

Exactly the way you put it-

 

Leaders will get on players for individual plays-helps accountability.

 

If you have a "general" problem with a player, because of how he plays, etc, as you put it, a leader does that OFF the field, and not in the heat of battle.

 

There is a difference.

[SenorGato]

The hypothetical Tom that exists in your brain sounds like a real monster. I brought up point differential because the defense du jour of the Rex regime is that he's a master motivator who guides a scrappy group of super-prepared overachievers into battle each week. The final scores suggest otherwise. When you're assessing the efficacy of the coach you've had here for four plus years, I think a bunch of 20 point losses weighs more in his final evaluation than a bunch of 3 point losses. Not showing up is as much a coaching thing as it is a talent thing. Kudos to Rex on 5-4--it's certainly a nice accomplishment--but it's not enough of an accomplishment to simply forget the entire body of work. IMO.

IS that the defense du jour of the Rex regime? I could have have sworn it had more to do with the ability and value in having a guy pretty much locks you into a top 10 defense (though 2012 was more 11-13ish with a historically poor offense) year in and year out. 

 

The rest of your post is agreeable enough. Still a whole lot of season left and Rex can go one way or another.

[Integrity28]

Anyone who claims he had us at 5-4 through 9 games, if asked on September 1st, is a rat-faced liar.  Anyone who thought back then we'd be at least 5-4 with their own hand-picked genius replacing Rex is also full of it.

 

Rookie QB who (allegedly) lost a competition to Mark Sanchez - who wasn't even having a good camp/summer himself - with (on paper, relative to other teams) crap to throw to and crap + injuries in run support.  OL we brought in Captain Penalty and a rookie who lost a competition to Vladimir Ducasse.  The crappy receivers we DID have kept dropping like flies.  The one sure-handed veteran who never screws up his routes gets suspended for a month.  The #9 overall pick was 10x worse than Kyle Wilson and we were using some undrafted nobody (who himself isn't really too good) instead of him as well.  We have 4 CBs and 2 of them are/were ranked as 2 of the 3 worst in the NFL.  The other two also sucked; one (Wilson) still in the bottom half and the least-talented of the bunch (by a wide margin) is only marginally in the top half. Top HALF.  Two safeties are both crap, whatever potential people choose to see in Allen for the future.  Behind these two everyone is noticeably worse.  We didn't exactly have KC's moist, delicious, cake schedule either.  And we're 5-4?

 

I don't think Rex has earned some mega-extension, and there are still things I find infuriating (like inexplicably not kneeling on the ball to seal the game yesterday), but on balance he's doing a great job.  People who think dozens of coaches do better don't watch that closely.  Everyone makes boneheaded mistakes.  This sorry-ass roster has a REALISTIC shot at 9-10 wins and that is impressive coaching.

 

So, what you're saying is you should have just repped me.

[Integrity28]

I do not see the defense doing anything very different than it did the last several seasons. The schemes and a majority of the players are the same.

 

On offense, I see a dramatically different schedule of play calling and more importantly a rhythm and setting up of plays. The Jets have not had that since when, Dan Henning?

 

How can Mornhinweg not be considered the most valuable add aspect to this team in comparison? That and 23-23 from Folk

 

Once again, you said MM was more valuable than Rex.

 

To my first point proving you wrong, you shifted it to "give MM credit".

 

To my second point proving you wrong, you shifted it to "most valuable addition".

 

So, going back to my original rebuttal... you are full of agenda-driven sh*t.

[Irish Jet]

scott pls

[Scott Dierking]

Once again, you said MM was more valuable than Rex.

 

To my first point proving you wrong, you shifted it to "give MM credit".

 

To my second point proving you wrong, you shifted it to "most valuable addition".

 

So, going back to my original rebuttal... you are full of agenda-driven sh*t.

I stick with my original premise, as much as you like to self glorify yourself.

[Lizard King]

Omg this board is getting setup for such a let down. I took 18:1 odds for them to win the AFCE back in August but come on, put a bullet in this holy trinity talk...you dont even have the right guys in there. Geno? How about Wilkerson. Holy trinity is more like Andy Reid/Alex Smith/Bob Sutton. That sounds pretty ridiculous too doesnt it? Esp considering we are on the flip side of two of those names and they have the perfect record. Cant wait to get blasted for this.

[Integrity28]

I stick with my original premise, as much as you like to self glorify yourself.

 

Yeah, pretty much. Doosh.

[Scott Dierking]

Yeah, pretty much. Doosh.

It is an opinion. Again you try to make it about yourself.....

 

 

Much like all the creative prima donnas that I manage-"Look at what I produced"-Totally absent to what the client's objective was.

[Integrity28]

It is an opinion. Again you try to make it about yourself.....

 

 

Much like all the creative prima donnas that I manage-"Look at what I produced"-Totally absent to what the client's objective was.

 

It's an opinion you couldn't back up, which is why you changed the semantics of your language when proven wrong.

 

That, or you have no eye for detail.

 

If you are "managing" creatives that aren't client-focused, then it's on you.