Matt39 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 yes, but then maybe that is a problem with the football locker room, and not with society in general, and they should accept our standards of behavior and conduct, not the other way around. That's like asking a strip club to turn into clean fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Did you ever feel sorry for Lennie? Is it possible to fell sorry for role models? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 That's like asking a strip club to turn into clean fun. Just get there before they get sweaty is what grandma use to tell me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kay_gee Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 That's like asking a strip club to turn into clean fun. that doesn't mean we shouldn't be asking/demanding they do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 that doesn't mean we shouldn't be asking/demanding they do it. In all seriousness- if the behavior of 53 adult alpha males within a locker room makes you uncomfortable...football probably isn't the best sport for you. Chances are there's a scumbag(s) on every team in the league. Hell, Pac Man still plays. They've already taken away padded practices, two a days...allowing attorneys and what not to dictate the rules and regulations of a locker room like it's IBM isnt going to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayNoToDMC Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I once put a teammates tiny dog into a burlap sack because he was late for two a day and made his best friend the kicker boot it through the uprights till it stopped moving #Teamfirst #Teambuilding #LOLkickerzsuk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I once put a teammates tiny dog into a burlap sack because he was late for two a days and made his best friend the kicker boot it through the uprights till it stopped moving #Teamfirst #Teambuilding #LOLkickerssuk If you want to send your resume to Drew Magary just do it already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kay_gee Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 In all seriousness- if the behavior of 53 adult alpha males within a locker room makes you uncomfortable...football probably isn't the best sport for you. Chances are there's a scumbag(s) on every team in the league. Hell, Pac Man still plays. the "boys will be boys" argument? come on. yes, there are scumbags everywhere. no, that isn't ok just because they play pro football. it's up to the rest of us to make sure they don't take over wherever they are. we shouldn't let them get away with it just because they're "alpha males" or because it's hard to change a culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 the "boys will be boys" argument? come on. yes, there are scumbags everywhere. no, that isn't ok just because they play pro football. it's up to the rest of us to make sure they don't take over wherever they are. we shouldn't let them get away with it just because they're "alpha males" or because it's hard to change a culture. What are you looking to change? What do you want me to do, go on television and tell 3 million people they have to be *nice* to each other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kay_gee Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 What are you looking to change? What do you want me to do, go on television and tell 3 million people they have to be *nice* to each other? yes. you, specifically, need to change everything. not blaming Martin would be a start, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 yes. you, specifically, need to change everything. not blaming Martin would be a start, though. Your previous post made little to zero sense, so I have no idea what you're even talking about. And the Ghostbusters reference apparently flew right over too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kay_gee Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 what part of "supporting efforts to change a harmful culture even though some guys are jerks and it will be hard" isn't clear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayNoToDMC Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Your previous post made little to zero sense, so I have no idea what you're even talking about. And the Ghostbusters reference apparently flew right over too. I think the point is you're blaming the guy who got put into a corner. What if he doesn't sue which is your conspiracy theory? I doubt the therapist he's talking to right now is spending their sessions talking litigation. What if that environment really was so unbearable he'd rather just not collect a check or play anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 what part of "supporting efforts to change a harmful culture even though some guys are jerks and it will be hard" isn't clear? Changing human nature is virtually impossible. It's like forcing gender. 53 football players are going to act the way they act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kay_gee Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Your previous post made little to zero sense, so I have no idea what you're even talking about. And the Ghostbusters reference apparently flew right over too. Ghostbusters is overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kay_gee Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Changing human nature is virtually impossible. It's like forcing gender. 53 football players are going to act the way they act. so nobody should bother trying. got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I think the point is you're blaming the guy who got put into a corner. What if he doesn't sue which is your conspiracy theory? I doubt the therapist he's talking to right now is sending their sessions talking litigation. What if that environment really was so unbearable he'd rather just not collect a check or play anymore The problem here is people draw lines differently. Generally the banter, language and overall behavior inside a locker room is granted more leeway than how we act in our cubicles. Saving a voicemail for that long and never once notifying a coach, a teammate or an executive doesn't add up. Going public with it creates way more hysteria than keeping it internal- which is how it should have been handled imo. The only way Martin could have been painted in a corner is if he did take those steps and he felt going public was his only way out of a dangerous situation. And from what were hearing from Dolphins players...nah, I dont buy that just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Your previous post made little to zero sense, so I have no idea what you're even talking about. And the Ghostbusters reference apparently flew right over too. what part of "supporting efforts to change a harmful culture even though some guys are jerks and it will be hard" isn't clear? It's a matter of choosing proper role models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayNoToDMC Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Changing human nature is virtually impossible. It's like forcing gender. 53 football players are going to act the way they act. Really? I could have grabbed your mother/daughter/grandma/girlfriends t!ts at work not to long ago and it would have been their fault for being a secretary instead of staying home to cook dinner and watch the kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 so nobody should bother trying. got it. Should these guys enter sensitivity training classes? I mean what are you looking for here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kay_gee Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 It's a matter of choosing proper role models. For some reason this makes me want French Toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Really? I could have grabbed your mother/daughter/grandma/girlfriends t!ts at work not to long ago and it would have been their fault for being a secretary instead of staying home to cook dinner and watch the kids Isnt that what the Jets did to the reporter a few years ago? Were you as outraged then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 For some reason this makes me want French Toast. Hell everything makes me want French toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kay_gee Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Should these guys enter sensitivity training classes? I mean what are you looking for here? GOOD START. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Should these guys enter sensitivity training classes? I mean what are you looking for here? Real men are sensitive. I cry daily. Well not daily as much as in between meals but still....."Im sensitive muther****er!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 The problem here is people draw lines differently. Generally the banter, language and overall behavior inside a locker room is granted more leeway than how we act in our cubicles. Saving a voicemail for that long and never once notifying a coach, a teammate or an executive doesn't add up. Going public with it creates way more hysteria than keeping it internal- which is how it should have been handled imo. The only way Martin could have been painted in a corner is if he did take those steps and he felt going public was his only way out of a dangerous situation. And from what were hearing from Dolphins players...nah, I dont buy that just yet. I've decided it best to just not post in this thread anymore, but something I wanted to put out there about the voice-mail: would your argument change if it comes to light that Martin didn't have the message saved for any other reason than he forgot to delete it? I've know plenty of friends to just ignore voice-mails completely until their inbox fills up, only to listen to them months later. I had a handful of voice-mails on my phone for over a year just because I never deleted them. I'm not saying that's what happened, but would that change your argument should it be revealed that Incognito's voice-mail was one of 20+ that he just didn't delete off his phone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kay_gee Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Real men are sensitive. I cry daily. Well not daily as much as in between meals but still....."Im sensitive muther****er!" I'd settle for the message that real men stick up for the person who, for whatever reasons, can't stick up for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I've decided it best to just not post in this thread anymore, but something I wanted to put out there about the voice-mail: would your argument change if it comes to light that Martin didn't have the message saved for any other reason than he forgot to delete it? I've know plenty of friends to just ignore voice-mails completely until their inbox fills up, only to listen to them months later. I had a handful of voice-mails on my phone for over a year just because I never deleted them. I'm not saying that's what happened, but would that change your argument should it be revealed that Incognito's voice-mail was one of 20+ that he just didn't delete off his phone? Yep. "You have 2 new mesaages, you have 67 saved messages you lazy fat bitch." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodeawhodat Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 LT should know about this. He's a terrible leader who let jerks run the lockerroom. sarcasm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I've decided it best to just not post in this thread anymore, but something I wanted to put out there about the voice-mail: would your argument change if it comes to light that Martin didn't have the message saved for any other reason than he forgot to delete it? I've know plenty of friends to just ignore voice-mails completely until their inbox fills up, only to listen to them months later. I had a handful of voice-mails on my phone for over a year just because I never deleted them. I'm not saying that's what happened, but would that change your argument should it be revealed that Incognito's voice-mail was one of 20+ that he just didn't delete off his phone? Of course. But at the same time- if the voicemail is the most damning evidence against Incognito and Martin felt threatened he should have notified someone immediately. I thought Ricky Williams had the best take on this entire situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I'd settle for the message that real men stick up for the person who, for whatever reasons, can't stick up for themselves. No. Woman, children and puppies named Twinkles yes. Gigantic offensive lineman that kick ass for a living? Not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayNoToDMC Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I once set a kids car on fire cause he left the Gatorade jug behind for the upperclassmen. I knew his mom had to come pick him up so I made him eat a bowl of sh*t and kiss her #Cognitoed #Teambuildingforabetterfuture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kay_gee Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 No. Woman, children and puppies named Twinkles yes. Gigantic offensive lineman that kick ass for a living? Not so much. yes. being a kickass o-lineman doesn't necessarily mean that you are necessarily going to stick up for yourself off the field. I knew a guy in high school who played hockey. tough guy on the ice, wouldn't hurt a fly off it. he got picked on til a couple other kids stuck up for him. now agree with me, or no french toast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kay_gee Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 double post, my bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Of course. But at the same time- if the voicemail is the most damning evidence against Incognito and Martin was felt threatened he should have notified someone immediately. Oh I agree. Since the beginning the only problem I had was those blaming Martin for not physically assaulting Incognito just because he's large of stature. Other than that, I think Richie is just a douchebag, but that's not a crime: I've had civil friendships with guys like that during the season and maybe probably just said hi out of it, I blame the atmosphere in Miami more than anything. I don't expect someone like Richie to be able to read people well enough to know if he's going too far, guys like that usually can't. There should have been a leader there to realize either Martin wasn't responding to it or was responding negatively. I personally don't feel he should be banned from the NFL or other teams: if they feel he should be suspended for conduct unbecoming, sure. But this is a league that employs felons, wife-beaters and drug-dealers, I'm not going to take away a guy's living just because he's a disgusting human. However, if it does turn out to be true that both Richie and the Dolphins were aware of Martin's suicidal history (if that is indeed true), then I start leaning the way of the Dolphins deserve whatever punishment they get and Richie can be allowed to play, but possibly seek some counseling in addition to the anger-management that he was forced to join back in college. I mean, f*cking with a guy who's suicidal? You can't be that stupid and if you are, maybe some sensitivity classes would be okay, because he may just be that stupid to not know what he did was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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