The Dolphins have a serious bullying problem?

[SayNoToDMC]

sorry, should have explained it better.  I don't know how they figured out how was his dad, but deadspin has it

 

http://www.ibtimes.com/richie-incognitos-dad-posting-dolphins-message-board-finheaven-user-idrd1994-accuses-jonathan-martin

 

 

So his defense of his son if that's for real was that Jonathan Martin was suicidal and everyone knew it? So Richie decided to torment and extort somebody mentally disturbed and is now dumbfounded it didn't turn out well? I guess it's because Richie never got to finish that psychology degree when he got kicked out of 2 colleges for being an angry douche.

[#27TheDominator]

Seriously, the more I hear about this and people commenting on it makes me sad. Everyone is quick to judge and call Martin a pussy, wimp or whatever but some people have mental issues and aren't built for confrontation. It seems like the guy did everything to make the organization aware of the problem and it continued. 

 

What would've happened if Martin came into the facility and started killing people? The same people calling him a wimp and a punk would've been shocked and say 'how can this happen'

 

The guy walked away from a million dollar job, something is wrong and the guy probably has some mental health issues, but to call him a punk and wuss is just bad all around. I don't get the 'blame the victim' mentally. This goes beyond hazing IMO.

 

Richie is a known scumbag, voted the dirtiest player twice but to hear the Phins players come to his defense is a shame. 

 

 

I think this is the issue.  Football is not a sport for the meek.  That is the reason that this kind of hazing mentality is tolerated.  The softer side of me thinks that it is nice that we are getting away from the bullying and seeing this sh*t as unacceptable.  On the other hand, there is a foxhole mentality and when it comes down to it, which guy do you want on your side when the brawl breaks out?  There always should be a line, but where do you put it?  Drill sergeants berating the plebes?  The sh*t is all going away in society which is a good thing, but it will also be taking with it things we love.  That includes the NFL as we know it which is why people fight against it. 

 

FWIW, my grandfather was a boxer that fought at the Garden twice.  My uncle went in the Navy during Viet Nam.  He was the soft brother and the drill sergeant was all over him.  He called up crying to my grandmother one time and my grandfather got on the phone and asked what the guy said or did.    When he heard what this guy said, his response was "Joseph get the car!  I'm going to go kick his ass!"  Thankfully cooler heads prevailed. The drive from Bensonhurst to NC or wherever was probably just too much for him. 

[rillo]

I think this is the issue.  Football is not a sport for the meek.  That is the reason that this kind of hazing mentality is tolerated.  The softer side of me thinks that it is nice that we are getting away from the bullying and seeing this sh*t as unacceptable.  On the other hand, there is a foxhole mentality and when it comes down to it, which guy do you want on your side when the brawl breaks out?  There always should be a line, but where do you put it?  Drill sergeants berating the plebes?  The sh*t is all going away in society which is a good thing, but it will also be taking with it things we love.  That includes the NFL as we know it which is why people fight against it. 

 

FWIW, my grandfather was a boxer that fought at the Garden twice.  My uncle went in the Navy during Viet Nam.  He was the soft brother and the drill sergeant was all over him.  He called up crying to my grandmother one time and my grandfather got on the phone and asked what the guy said or did.    When he heard what this guy said, his response was "Joseph get the car!  I'm going to go kick his ass!"  Thankfully cooler heads prevailed. The drive from Bensonhurst to NC or wherever was probably just too much for him. 

 

 

From the little bit that we know, this goes beyond hazing. Who really knows what these guys are capable of, we only hear about the guys that get caught (Hernandez) but maybe Martin truly felt like he was in harm and his family. I'm not going to get into the racial slurs, because the video of Richie acting a fool at the bar, Pouncey is right there laughing with/at him. We now know Pouncey may have a past himself. 

[Larz]

So his defense of his son if that's for real was that Jonathan Martin was suicidal and everyone knew it? So Richie decided to torment and extort somebody mentally disturbed and is now dumbfounded it didn't turn out well? I guess it's because Richie never got to finish that psychology degree when he got kicked out of 2 colleges for being an angry douche.

 

 

yup.  like somebody said in the thread, it kinda explains how richie jr turned out that way

[Larz]

No problem.  Thanks for the link.   Very interesting.

 

 

the web sluething they did is pretty compelling, but not proof.  

[JoeKlecko]

the web sluething they did is pretty compelling, but not proof.  

 

I agree.

[budda12ax7]

I think would explain everything.

[T0mShane]

Er uh, so it's come out that the Dolphins coaches set Incognito on Martin in hopes of "toughening him up."

[Thai Jet]

Er uh, so it's come out that the Dolphins coaches set Incognito on Martin in hopes of "toughening him up."

I just read that too. If it's true, and it would seem to make sense, heads a plenty will roll in Fishville.

[slats]

Sources: Dolphins coaches asked Incognito to toughen up Martin

By Omar Kelly, Sun Sentinel

8:17 pm, November 5, 2013

Miami Dolphins coaches asked player Richie Incognito, who was the offensive line's undisputed leader, to toughen up teammate Jonathan Martin after he missed a voluntary workout last spring, multiple sources told the Sun Sentinel.

The sources told the paper they believe that Incognito, who is accused of using racially incendiary language and bullying tactics against Martin, may have taken those orders too far.

It's not clear whether those marching orders will now become part of a pending investigation by the NFL into the Dolphins' locker room culture, and the alleged bullying that took place between Incognito and Martin.

"I'm just trying to weather the storm right now. This will pass," Incognito told WSVN-TV when reached outside a doctor's office.

Incognito has been suspended indefinitely by the Dolphins for conduct detrimental to the team for his tactics involving Martin, the team's 2012 second-round pick, who left the team last week and later accused the Dolphins of having an unsafe working environment.

Martin's smoking gun is a threatening, and racially offensive voice mail Incognito left him in April. In that voice message Incognito calls Martin, who is bi-racial, a "half n-----," threatened to slap his mother across the face, and uttered the words "I'll kill you."

Sources say that communication took place when Martin skipped two days of the team's OTA program, and Incognito was encouraged by his coaches to make a call that would "get him into the fold," one source said.

Even though OTA workouts are voluntary, the NFL culture forces coaches to strong arm the team's leaders to make sure everyone attends. Sources say Incognito was doing his job, but they admit he crossed the line.

"Richie is the type of guy where if he's on your team you love him," a teammate said. "If he's not on your team, you hate him. Every team needs a guy like that."

A Dolphins spokesman declined comment when told about Incognito's directives from the coaching staff, saying the franchise is fully cooperating with the NFL's independent investigation, which was requested by owner Steve Ross.

It is clear Incognito embraced his role as the team's enforcer and tough guy, his teammates said. However, nobody knew how troubling his relationship was with Martin, who started 10 straight games next to Incognito going back to the 2012 season, those same teammates added.

Martin abruptly left the team last week after a lunch room prank orchestrated by his fellow offensive lineman caused his emotional distress, and forced him to return to his California hometown, where he's receiving treatment.

The NFL Player's Association released a statement Tuesday saying it will monitor the NFL's investigation to ensure all the players the union represents, which includes Incognito, get a "fair investigation."

"We expect that the NFL and its clubs create a safe and professional workplace for all players and that owners, executives, coaches and players should set the best standards and examples," the statement read. "It is the duty of this union to hold the clubs and teams accountable for safety and professionalism in the workplace."

During Martin's rookie season he was nicknamed "Big Weirdo" by his teammates, and was forced to sport an embarrassing haircut given to him by the offensive linemen. He also forked over $15,000 for a veterans trip to Las Vegas he didn't attend.

The Dolphins traditionally hold rite of passage rituals for its rookies, and some of the team's antics – which included ridiculous haircuts, hair dyeing, and elaborate dinners paid for by the rookies – could be considered hazing. Those would make them a violation of the NFL's personal conduct policy.

Sources say players were annually directed by coach Joe Philbin to "cut out" the rookie hazing. Philbin comes from a Green Bay Packers culture where rookie hazing is minimal, or at least subtle. While Philbin tried to rein it in with the Dolphins, he and his coaching staff never policed it when the team was dyeing and shaving heads for the second straight training camp.

However, Philbin did insist that the rookies got decent haircuts before the team's first exhibition game, but that was after weeks of them sporting their embarrassing looks.

Linebacker Dannell Ellerbe indicated that Martin should have come to the leadership council with his problems, which apparently carried over to his second season. The problem is Incognito was also on the leadership council, and possessed a tremendous amount of power and influence.

That might explains why Martin hid his issues with Incognito, and on occasion hung around with him in South Florida, and during road trips. It is possible Martin felt he had to do so to feel accepted.

According to ESPN, Martin told former Stanford teammate Zach Ertz he planned to continue playing football. The Dolphins have kept him on the team's 53-man roster, and players have gone out their way to make sure he knows he's welcomed back.

[Matt39]

Has any single person outside the media defended Martin?

He'll never play again IMO...and coincidentally both of his folks are attorneys. Helicopter parents involved too...what a mess.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Er uh, so it's come out that the Dolphins coaches set Incognito on Martin in hopes of "toughening him up."

 

I mentioned this a couple days ago that I wouldn't be surprised if it came out that some assistant coaches ordered this. There were reports that he wasn't hitting the weight room much and it's not uncommon for them to do something like this: Richie just took it to an extreme instead of constructively doing it.  

[Jetlag]

I have left worse voicemails on my friends machines.  This is such a non-issue that the media uses to drum up the PC crowd. Football players are not normal people, they have thicker skin, or should.  If they don't, well they probably won't make it long.  I guarantee much worse things are said during the course of a game to try to rattle opponents.  

 

The most hilarious part of all this are the former coaches and players who are waving the PC banner saying Incognito went too far.  Shut the **** up.  If we put a mic on all of them throughout their careers no doubt we could find something they would be ashamed to have aired to the public. 

[Matt39]

DP

[Matt39]

Coaches asking captains and such to keep an eye on, motivate or "toughen up" players happens in every locker room at every level of sports.

[Matt39]

I have left worse voicemails on my friends machines. This is such a non-issue that the media uses to drum up the PC crowd. Football players are not normal people, they have thicker skin, or should. If they don't, well they probably won't make it long. I guarantee much worse things are said during the course of a game to try to rattle opponents.

The most hilarious part of all this are the former coaches and players who are waving the PC banner saying Incognito went too far. Shut the **** up. If we put a mic on all of them throughout their careers no doubt we could find something they would be ashamed to have aired to the public.

Keyshawn Johnson of all people too.

[whodeawhodat]

Was watching the NFL network last night and Ladanian Tomlinson made a great point about locker room leadership.  Said that there are jerks in every lockerrroom and it is up to the leaders in the lockerroom to keep the jerks from going too far.  to say hey, thats enough.  IMO, RI is a jerk AND a leader in the lockerroom. It was upto other leaders to step in and curb his jerkness.  Problem was, this jerk was picking on one of his own, an O-Lineman.  They are supposed to be brothers on the Oline more than any other group on the team.  They are supposed to make each other better.  Just a sad situation all around.

[Jetfan13]

If you listen to local radio in S Fla it is ALL Martins fault. The Big O  640AM went on a tirade yesterday defending Incognito, saying the locker room mentality is different, stand up for yourself, yada, yada, yada. Went as far as telling his intern, in no less words, STFU, I didn't ask for your opinion. Claiming all the teammates defend RI. Guess what? All his teammates always defended him until he wasn't a teammate anymore. It is sickening the way the media is portraying this down here.

[sh4dy15]

If you listen to local radio in S Fla it is ALL Martins fault. The Big O  640AM went on a tirade yesterday defending Incognito, saying the locker room mentality is different, stand up for yourself, yada, yada, yada. Went as far as telling his intern, in no less words, STFU, I didn't ask for your opinion. Claiming all the teammates defend RI. Guess what? All his teammates always defended him until he wasn't a teammate anymore. It is sickening the way the media is portraying this down here.

 

That is completely ridiculous. Just take solace in the fact that it doesn't matter at all what any radio host, fan, or even player in that locker room says. Incognito will never play another NFL game and Martin will end up being vindicated in some way by the NFL.  They can't afford to do it any other way and its the right thing to do.

 

I'm backing away from this thread because I don't want to start personally attacking people but if you are defending this piece of sh*t or blaming Martin, who is the clear victim, you seriously need to look in the mirror.

[Matt39]

That is completely ridiculous. Just take solace in the fact that it doesn't matter at all what any radio host, fan, or even player in that locker room says. Incognito will never play another NFL game and Martin will end up being vindicated in some way by the NFL. They can't afford to do it any other way and its the right thing to do.

I'm backing away from this thread because I don't want to start personally attacking people but if you are defending this piece of sh*t or blaming Martin, who is the clear victim, you seriously need to look in the mirror.

The NFL has convicted felons playing every week yet you want Incognito banned from the NFL. Ok.

Martin took part in the same pranks that apparently forced him to check himself in. Ambulance chasing and locker rooms is a bad mix. Coincidentally the guy lost his starting job the week before and has been terrible this season. Read between the lines.

[PFSIKH]

That is completely ridiculous. Just take solace in the fact that it doesn't matter at all what any radio host, fan, or even player in that locker room says. Incognito will never play another NFL game and Martin will end up being vindicated in some way by the NFL.  They can't afford to do it any other way and its the right thing to do.

 

I'm backing away from this thread because I don't want to start personally attacking people but if you are defending this piece of sh*t or blaming Martin, who is the clear victim, you seriously need to look in the mirror.

 

+1

[nycdan]

Incognito will play again.  Not this year.  But at some point next year, some team will be on the playoff bubble and desperately in need of OLine help and Incognito will be talking about how he's 'changed' and 'learned from his experience' and he will be signed to finish the season.  Everyone gets multiple shots at redemption in the NFL.  Look no further than Pacman Jones. 

 

And no matter how different everyone wants to claim the NFL is, it's still a workplace for these guys.  And if Martin was there to play football and not to take part in being extorted for money and verbally abused, he's got that right.  Not sure if there was a better way for him to handle it because I don't know anywhere near all the facts, but I don't think he's at all the bad guy here.

[Jetfan13]

That is completely ridiculous. Just take solace in the fact that it doesn't matter at all what any radio host, fan, or even player in that locker room says. Incognito will never play another NFL game and Martin will end up being vindicated in some way by the NFL.  They can't afford to do it any other way and its the right thing to do.

 

I'm backing away from this thread because I don't want to start personally attacking people but if you are defending this piece of sh*t or blaming Martin, who is the clear victim, you seriously need to look in the mirror.

Is that what u got out of my post? Read it again.

[kay_gee]

Is that what u got out of my post? Read it again.

pretty sure you're not who he's referring to.

[sh4dy15]

Is that what u got out of my post? Read it again.

Sorry man, not talking about you. I agree with what you were saying.

[Matt39]

Sorry man, not talking about you. I agree with what you were saying.

 

With the info surfacing it's looking more and more like Incognito's being used as the scapegoat here and Philbin's the one that's really to blame.

[SayNoToDMC]

With the info surfacing it's looking more and more like Incognito's being used as the scapegoat here and Philbin's the one that's really to blame.

I'm sure they told him to do it but I'm also sure it went way to far. Heads will probably roll cause you sent emotionally disturbed guy number one who gets his kicks ******* with other people after emotionally disturbed guy number two who wouldn't respond to that in a million years. You can't really blame the grenade for Blowing up when you pulled the pin

[bitonti]

With the info surfacing it's looking more and more like Incognito's being used as the scapegoat here and Philbin's the one that's really to blame.

 

Yeah he'll get fired too.

[Matt39]

Yeah he'll get fired too.

Rex did the same thing with Gholston. Were entering an Intersting time if we're going to start letting attorneys dictate how locker rooms can and can't operate.

Remember Ines Sainz?

[Matt39]

I'm sure they told him to do it but I'm also sure it went way to far. Heads will probably roll cause you sent emotionally disturbed guy number one who gets his kicks ******* with other people after emotionally disturbed guy number two who wouldn't respond to that in a million years. You can't really blame the grenade for Blowing up when you pulled the pin

Problem was Martin was involved in the same pranks done to him. The entire team considered him soft, knew he was going in the non football injury list without pay....this guy had this planned for a while.

[flgreen]

Incognito considered black in Dolphins locker room

One of the most curious aspects of the Richie Incognito-Jonathan Martin story is how race has become very much a part of it outside the Dolphins locker room -- in the media and among fans and observers -- but not at all so far within the Dolphins locker room.

 

Think of this:

 

Richie Incognito left Jonathan Martin a voice mail that, among other things, called Martin a "half-n----r." And Dolphins players of color, knowing of the voicemail, have expressed no problems with Incognito.

 

"I don't have a problem with Richie," Mike Wallace said. "I love Richie."

 

"I don't think Richie is a racist," cornerback Brent Grimes said.

 

"Richie Incognito isn't a racist," tight end Michael Egnew said.

 

ESPN analyst and former Dolphins wide receiver Cris Carter has know Mike Pouncey since the player's childhood. Today Carter said on air he recently spoke to Mike Pouncey and the center, who is Incognito's friend, addressed race.

 

"They don't feel as if he's a racist, they don't feel as if he picked on Jonathan repeatedly and bullied him, but if they could do it all over again there would be situations that they might change but they’re very, very comfortable with Richie,” Carter said.

 “They think it’s sad, not only that Jonathan’s not on the football team, but also that Richie is being depicted as a bigot and as a racist.”

 

How is this possible?

 

Well, I've spoken to multiple people today about this and the explanation from all of them is that in the Dolphins locker room, Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by the black players. He was an honorary black man.

And Jonathan Martin, who is bi-racial, was not. Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito.

"Richie is honarary," one player who left the Dolphins this offseason told me today. "I don't expect you to understand because you're not black. But being a black guy, being a brother is more than just about skin color. It's about how you carry yourself. How you play. Where you come from. What you've experienced. A lot of things."

 

Another former Dolphins employee told me Martin is considered "soft" by his teammates and that's a reason he's not readily accepted by some of the players, particularly the black players. His background -- Stanford educated and the son of highly educated people -- was not necessarily seen as a strength or a positive by some players and it perpetuated in the way Martin carried himself.

 

And so -- agree with it or not, comprehend it or not -- this is a reason the Dolphins haven't turned on Incognito as a racist.

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2013/11/richie-incognito-considered-black-in-dolphins-locker-room.html#storylink=cpy

 

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2013/11/richie-incognito-considered-black-in-dolphins-locker-room.html

[The Crusher]

Rex did the same thing with Gholston. Were entering an Intersting time if we're going to start letting attorneys dictate how locker rooms can and can't operate.

Remember Ines Sainz

 

 

Uhhhh what?

 

I almost remember Rex having someone go after Gholston is practice but I guess Vernon kept it to himself when they attacked him with racial slurs and demanded money from him.  Gholston is a stand up guy?

[The Crusher]

Incognito considered black in Dolphins locker room

One of the most curious aspects of the Richie Incognito-Jonathan Martin story is how race has become very much a part of it outside the Dolphins locker room -- in the media and among fans and observers -- but not at all so far within the Dolphins locker room.

 

Think of this:

 

Richie Incognito left Jonathan Martin a voice mail that, among other things, called Martin a "half-n----r." And Dolphins players of color, knowing of the voicemail, have expressed no problems with Incognito.

 

"I don't have a problem with Richie," Mike Wallace said. "I love Richie."

 

"I don't think Richie is a racist," cornerback Brent Grimes said.

 

"Richie Incognito isn't a racist," tight end Michael Egnew said.

 

ESPN analyst and former Dolphins wide receiver Cris Carter has know Mike Pouncey since the player's childhood. Today Carter said on air he recently spoke to Mike Pouncey and the center, who is Incognito's friend, addressed race.

 

"They don't feel as if he's a racist, they don't feel as if he picked on Jonathan repeatedly and bullied him, but if they could do it all over again there would be situations that they might change but they’re very, very comfortable with Richie,” Carter said.

 “They think it’s sad, not only that Jonathan’s not on the football team, but also that Richie is being depicted as a bigot and as a racist.”

 

How is this possible?

 

Well, I've spoken to multiple people today about this and the explanation from all of them is that in the Dolphins locker room, Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by the black players. He was an honorary black man.

And Jonathan Martin, who is bi-racial, was not. Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito.

"Richie is honarary," one player who left the Dolphins this offseason told me today. "I don't expect you to understand because you're not black. But being a black guy, being a brother is more than just about skin color. It's about how you carry yourself. How you play. Where you come from. What you've experienced. A lot of things."

 

Another former Dolphins employee told me Martin is considered "soft" by his teammates and that's a reason he's not readily accepted by some of the players, particularly the black players. His background -- Stanford educated and the son of highly educated people -- was not necessarily seen as a strength or a positive by some players and it perpetuated in the way Martin carried himself.

 

And so -- agree with it or not, comprehend it or not -- this is a reason the Dolphins haven't turned on Incognito as a racist.

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2013/11/richie-incognito-considered-black-in-dolphins-locker-room.html#storylink=cpy

 

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2013/11/richie-incognito-considered-black-in-dolphins-locker-room.html

 

 

 

...and so it begins.  I lock this thread before page 17.  Wanna bet?

[Matt39]

Uhhhh what?

 

I almost remember Rex having someone go after Gholston is practice but I guess Vernon kept it to himself when they attacked him with racial slurs and demanded money from him.  Gholston is a stand up guy?

 

He had Rob Turner pick a fight with Gholston to toughen him up on camera. If Gholston wanted to call an attorney today he could technically. Gholston probably understands how locker rooms operate however, something this board just doesnt I guess. Incognito never laid his hands on Martin from what we know. Philbin made the mistake of picking the wrong guy to send at Martin. Its a common coaching practice though- when coaches feel they cant get through to a player they ask a teammate.

 

Football is a brotherhood, like it or not, and trust is the biggest component of it. The Dolphin players allowed Incognito to use the N word because they trusted him. When your risking basically your life every week the other guys dont give a crap what race you are. Martin could just never assimilate and he knew it. Football locker rooms are separated by balls and toughness, not race.

[JustInFudge]

Was watching the NFL network last night and Ladanian Tomlinson made a great point about locker room leadership.  Said that there are jerks in every lockerrroom and it is up to the leaders in the lockerroom to keep the jerks from going too far.  to say hey, thats enough.  IMO, RI is a jerk AND a leader in the lockerroom. It was upto other leaders to step in and curb his jerkness.  Problem was, this jerk was picking on one of his own, an O-Lineman.  They are supposed to be brothers on the Oline more than any other group on the team.  They are supposed to make each other better.  Just a sad situation all around.

 

LT should know about this.  He's a terrible leader who let jerks run the lockerroom.