Lupz27 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 After watching the Chiefs, and years of watching the Eagles, and other successful West Coast offenses, they all have 2 things in common, 1. A J Charles, L McCoy, B Westbrook, R Waters, I think you get the point, type of RB, and a J Maclin, and a D Jackson type 1, 2 punch at WR, 1 stretches the field, and the other can take any quick hitting route for A LOT of YAC as long as the QB hits him in stride, but with out the stretch the field guy those routes don't open up. And I think we all can agree the Jets have ZERO of these type of players on this offense right now, and if MM stays here next year the Jets need to do whatever they need to do to get these type of players on offense, oh, and a QB to throw them the ball wouldn't hurt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexiRoll6 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Also, if you watch the Chiefs and Eagles you realize they have a QB as well. Jets should have gone all out for Alex Smith in FA, but THAT ship has sailed. After this season the Jets should have lots of cap space and a QB should be a TOP priority. Not another rookie PROJECT to try and develop and hope that by year three he is ready to carry the team to the playoffs. By that time the defense will be on the decline so a Jay Cutler or Philip Rivers would be a definite upgrade. I believe BOTH will be FA's after this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Alex Smith wasn't a FA and giving up a first for him would've been dumb. Maybe not as dumb as wasting it on Milliner though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Alex Smith wasn't a FA and giving up a first for him would've been dumb. Maybe not as dumb as wasting it on Milliner though... Hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
77DRAFT Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Good point, I thought we should have gone after Cutler and then the 49er, a vet is what this team needed back in 09 when we had the championship roster, the guy I want now is Football Johnny, you don't get an Alex Smith every year, and Manz is the real deal, taylor made for NY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetfan13 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 For all you guys who want Rex fired, MM would be your new head coach. Ask Detroit fans how they felt about him as their HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 For all you guys who want Rex fired, MM would be your new head coach. Ask Detroit fans how they felt about him as their HC. If you fired Rex tomorrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cr726 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Alex Smith and Nick Foles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetfan13 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 If you fired Rex tomorrow? It was Idziks plan from the start. Rex fails and MM is already in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cr726 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 It was Idziks plan from the start. Rex fails and MM is already in place. MM and Reid parted ways for a reason, when MM was the Asst. HC\OC he threw the ball way too much, it was like watching flag football, they had McCoy and he would run the ball 5-10 times per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 MM and Reid parted ways for a reason, when MM was the Asst. HC\OC he threw the ball way too much, it was like watching flag football, they had McCoy and he would run the ball 5-10 times per game. This never happened. Even last season, before the injury McCoy was averaging 18 carries over those first 10 games (without a couple of 30-40 carry games to badly skew the numbers). The only 2 games he had under 15 carries included 1 blowout (13 carries) and 1 game where he was gaining under 1.6 ypc (14 carries). Also in the first couple of games alone had a handful of carries called back for holding. Not all the rushing attempts in the world, but their defense was giving up 4 TDs per game. Plus Vick & Brown would add almost another 10 rushing attempts per game on top of McCoy's. Exactly how many rushing attempts do you expect one RB to get, game after game, in that type of a season? I'll bet no other team gave up as many points and still ran the ball as much as the Eagles did last season.d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Simple Marty likes the West Coast offense and throwing the ball. Here we do not have a QB and receivers that can execute that right now. Is Marty flexible- hell yeah look at the games where he is being real conservative- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 This never happened. Even last season, before the injury McCoy was averaging 18 carries over those first 10 games (without a couple of 30-40 carry games to badly skew the numbers). The only 2 games he had under 15 carries included 1 blowout (13 carries) and 1 game where he was gaining under 1.6 ypc (14 carries). Also in the first couple of games alone had a handful of carries called back for holding. Not all the rushing attempts in the world, but their defense was giving up 4 TDs per game. Plus Vick & Brown would add almost another 10 rushing attempts per game on top of McCoy's. Exactly how many rushing attempts do you expect one RB to get, game after game, in that type of a season? I'll bet no other team gave up as many points and still ran the ball as much as the Eagles did last season.d Pound & Ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Pound & Ground? The Ground Pound of Rebound: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 What was the tempo like in Philly? Sperm's figures seem to indicate that the Eagles were getting more plays in than the Jets. That might be because of the lack of first downs, but it also might relate to how quickly they get plays off. I don't think Rex is providing that much input into the playcalling, but I would buy he is requesting conservative plan and that they slow things down a bit. A rookie QB could slow them down too. Sanchez was horrible with this, but everybody tended to blame Schottenheimer. The Ground Pound of Rebound: Oooh a mustache shot. Excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Hindsight. Not from me buddy. I hated that pick from the second it was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexiRoll6 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Good point, I thought we should have gone after Cutler and then the 49er, a vet is what this team needed back in 09 when we had the championship roster, the guy I want now is Football Johnny, you don't get an Alex Smith every year, and Manz is the real deal, taylor made for NY. Did you see the LSU game? Manziel is NOT the real deal. Too short and arm strength is questionable. Geno Smith HAS the tools, but needs a teacher. Marty is a coordinator, not an instructor and obviously David Lee has not been able to teach Smith the fundamentals of NOT starting down your WR. Not that it would help with the caliber of WR's on this team. Stephen Hill is MIA and should soon appear on a milk container- or the waiver wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Pound & Ground? Watching the Eagles offense under MM was hardly a ground and pound event. The Philly fans here were clamoring for less passing and a commitment to the running game. Just passing along what the sentiment was in Eagles land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexiRoll6 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 For all you guys who want Rex fired, MM would be your new head coach. Ask Detroit fans how they felt about him as their HC. Not necessarily. I think Idzik would find a guy who could WORK with Marty, for continuity sake. If Marty IS the new HC it wouldn't bother me as much as having Rex back. For God's sake people what makes you DEFEND that stooge? Please tell me ONE thing he does that is ABOVE average besides DC work. Rex Sucks!!!!! I don't believe Idzik will make MM the new HC. Jets need someone like Parcells at this stage, and there are very few of them but Mike Martz would be good, Brian Billick would be good, Lovie Smith would be good but I doubt guys like Jon Gruden or Cowher would even touch the job with an owner like Woody around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 Watching the Eagles offense under MM was hardly a ground and pound event. The Philly fans here were clamoring for less passing and a commitment to the running game. Just passing along what the sentiment was in Eagles land. So the 5-10 HB/WR/TE screen passes don't count as an extension of the running game to you, the Eagles would call these things over, and over, if teams couldn't stop it. I can tell you this, everyone, and their mother knew the Chiefs were calling Screen Passes to Jamal Charles yesterday, and they still couldn't stop him when he got his hands on it, and sl they kept dialing kt up, that's the type of RB MM needs to be able to execute his type of West Coast offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 So the 5-10 HB/WR/TE screen passes don't count as an extension of the running game to you, the Eagles would call these things over, and over, if teams couldn't stop it. I can tell you this, everyone, and their mother knew the Chiefs were calling Screen Passes to Jamal Charles yesterday, and they still couldn't stop him when he got his hands on it, and sl they kept dialing kt up, that's the type of RB MM needs to be able to execute his type of West Coast offense. Pretty sure that a screen pass is considered a "Pass" in stats, and if it falls to the ground, it is incomplete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 Not necessarily. I think Idzik would find a guy who could WORK with Marty, for continuity sake. If Marty IS the new HC it wouldn't bother me as much as having Rex back. For God's sake people what makes you DEFEND that stooge? Please tell me ONE thing he does that is ABOVE average besides DC work. Rex Sucks!!!!! I don't believe Idzik will make MM the new HC. Jets need someone like Parcells at this stage, and there are very few of them but Mike Martz would be good, Brian Billick would be good, Lovie Smith would be good but I doubt guys like Jon Gruden or Cowher would even touch the job with an owner like Woody around. So essentially your saying bring in another DC to be HC, why would you do that when you already have the best available DC to be your HC? If you make a HC change it HAS to be to an offensive call his own offense type of HC, and MM would make sense in that aspect, but sure as hell wouldn't make sense football related wise, dude is a horrible HC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 Pretty sure that a screen pass is considered a "Pass" in stats, and if it falls to the ground, it is incomplete. If you don't think those plays when used by competent offenses isn't an extension of the running game in the WC offense you just don't understand the concept of the offense then. I can understand it thou, because a successful screen pass to us Jets fans is like finding a needle in a hay stack, but for competent offenses they actually are very successful plays (yes passing play, but intended to be an extension of the running game, just getting your playmaking RB out in space instead of between the tackles). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexiRoll6 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 With the combination of QB and WR's on this team why bother throwing the ball at all? Even if Geno throws a catchable ball, they won't catch it. Hill is the invisible man, Nelson has been cut by three teams and Holmes is playing out the string w/ the Jets. This is a season that - as usual - the Jets gave us reason to hope then pulled that hope out from under us like a cheap rug. They won't win but one, maybe two more games and it will be sayonara Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 If you don't think those plays when used by competent offenses isn't an extension of the running game in the WC offense you just don't understand the concept of the offense then. I can understand it thou, because a successful screen pass to us Jets fans is like finding a needle in a hay stack, but for competent offenses they actually are very successful plays (yes passing play, but intended to be an extension of the running game, just getting your playmaking RB out in space instead of between the tackles). The Jets (with Richie Anderson and Bruce Harper, et al) used to be some of the best screen passing teams in the league. It does not only take an appropriate running back, it takes an appropriate offensive line that is athletic enough to get down field at the right time and it becomes a synchronized play. During the Rex period, the Jets have not done that play well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 With the combination of QB and WR's on this team why bother throwing the ball at all? Even if Geno throws a catchable ball, they won't catch it. Hill is the invisible man, Nelson has been cut by three teams and Holmes is playing out the string w/ the Jets. This is a season that - as usual - the Jets gave us reason to hope then pulled that hope out from under us like a cheap rug. They won't win but one, maybe two more games and it will be sayonara Rex. We need to start changing this to JUST QB!!!!! I just watched Phillip Rivers tear up the Chiefs with 2 off the street garbage WR's, a rookie WR, and 2 good players in Gates, and Woodehead. And how does everyone feel seeing Brian Schotty, and Kellen Clemens put up back to back 40 point weeks!!!!!! Outside of T Austin I bet you half this board couldn't name the Rams TE, WR's, or even RB's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 There's no consistency here. We beat the Saints and then lose to the Bills. We have 0 downfield passing attack that's why we cant run the ball. This is all the fault of the GM we have the worse WR corps in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 We need to start changing this to JUST QB!!!!! I just watched Phillip Rivers tear up the Chiefs with 2 off the street garbage WR's, a rookie WR, and 2 good players in Gates, and Woodehead. And how does everyone feel seeing Brian Schotty, and Kellen Clemens put up back to back 40 point weeks!!!!!! Outside of T Austin I bet you half this board couldn't name the Rams TE, WR's, or even RB's! Yet, there are no name QB's that are moving the ball well around the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 Yet, there are no name QB's that are moving the ball well around the league. So what's that tell you about Geno Smith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Watching the Eagles offense under MM was hardly a ground and pound event. The Philly fans here were clamoring for less passing and a commitment to the running game. Just passing along what the sentiment was in Eagles land. I was joking, based on Sperm's post. I think MM wants to throw and is scared - which is not his usual MO. So the 5-10 HB/WR/TE screen passes don't count as an extension of the running game to you, the Eagles would call these things over, and over, if teams couldn't stop it. I can tell you this, everyone, and their mother knew the Chiefs were calling Screen Passes to Jamal Charles yesterday, and they still couldn't stop him when he got his hands on it, and sl they kept dialing kt up, that's the type of RB MM needs to be able to execute his type of West Coast offense. We have this discussion all the time and I do not agree at all that screen passes are an extension of the running game. Our team can't pass and can run, so people always post that we should run some of those easy screen passes. Just like you need valid run game to do play action, you need a valid passing game for screens to be successful. Screen passes work to negate a pass rush. Who is worried about blitzing Geno? If you don't think those plays when used by competent offenses isn't an extension of the running game in the WC offense you just don't understand the concept of the offense then. I can understand it thou, because a successful screen pass to us Jets fans is like finding a needle in a hay stack, but for competent offenses they actually are very successful plays (yes passing play, but intended to be an extension of the running game, just getting your playmaking RB out in space instead of between the tackles). See above. Screens are the way that teams that can't run negate a pass rush and keep defenses honest. The Jets are a good running team that can't pass. Throwing screens plays right into the hands of the defense and often leads to negative plays. Once they can pass they will be able to screen, but until then? Nope. The Jets (with Richie Anderson and Bruce Harper, et al) used to be some of the best screen passing teams in the league. It does not only take an appropriate running back, it takes an appropriate offensive line that is athletic enough to get down field at the right time and it becomes a synchronized play. During the Rex period, the Jets have not done that play well. The QB(s) had a big arm. It isn't during the Rex period. The entire Tannenbaum era has been pitiful at screens and that INCLUDES 2008 when they had Favre. I assumed it was Schottenheimer, but we won't find out until the team can pass the ball and force teams to rush instead of sitting back waiting for the back - see Searcy last week. The Jets lines have seem pretty well suited to run screens. Maybe not Ducasse, but Ferguson, Slauson and Mangold all seem pretty well suited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 So what's that tell you about Geno Smith? I'll answer it for you Hot Garbage!!!!!! Right now, maybe in a few years he could be transformed into a great QB like A Rodgers was, but he won't do it now while playing kid is lost, and is not learning from the experience of being thrown to the fire, some QB's do, most don't. I was in favor of throwing him to the wolves for 5+ games, and see what comes out, but now it's time to help the kid out, and let him watch, and learn from Lee starting scratch kinda like the Army, tear him down, and then build him back up the right way, only way kid will have a chance in this league IMO. This is why I also believe Simms deserves a shot, he has been torn down, and built back up by the Jets coaches, and his father, he probably needs another offseason thou, but I think it's better to see what you have there instead of watching Geno hand it off until we're down by 3 scores late in the 3rd, and then watch him force balls into coverage resulting in INT after INT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 I was joking, based on Sperm's post. I think MM wants to throw and is scared - which is not his usual MO. We have this discussion all the time and I do not agree at all that screen passes are an extension of the running game. Our team can't pass and can run, so people always post that we should run some of those easy screen passes. Just like you need valid run game to do play action, you need a valid passing game for screens to be successful. Screen passes work to negate a pass rush. Who is worried about blitzing Geno? See above. Screens are the way that teams that can't run negate a pass rush and keep defenses honest. The Jets are a good running team that can't pass. Throwing screens plays right into the hands of the defense and often leads to negative plays. Once they can pass they will be able to screen, but until then? Nope. The QB(s) had a big arm. It isn't during the Rex period. The entire Tannenbaum era has been pitiful at screens and that INCLUDES 2008 when they had Favre. I assumed it was Schottenheimer, but we won't find out until the team can pass the ball and force teams to rush instead of sitting back waiting for the back - see Searcy last week. The Jets lines have seem pretty well suited to run screens. Maybe not Ducasse, but Ferguson, Slauson and Mangold all seem pretty well suited. I would be inclined to agree with you in a traditional offense, and one that has a lot of 5, and even 7 step drop back passes in it, but not in the WCO, the running game is a misdirection trap, counter, and speed sweeps, and off tackles, and quick hitting passes, blitzing a WCO outside of a 3rd, and long play is not your best defensive scheme, you will get picked apart by an average QB that way. The Chiefs have one of the worst passing games in the league yet screen passes to J Charles work all day, DL crash the PA to Charles they see he doesn't have the ball, and they get all giddy because they think that the Chiefs are actually passing the ball, but their not even thou they are, it's basically a delayed HB draw the way screens are ran in this kind of WCO, just like quick WR screens, 8 men stacked to stop the run snap it bubble in, or out get the right block boom huge running play on a pass. Jets just don't have the personal, and it starts with the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 The QB cant do it alone. The offense lacks NFL WRs. D-Brick has regressed Mangold seems to not be himself where's his leadership on the field. We are 5-6 doing a lot better than many predicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 The QB cant do it alone. The offense lacks NFL WRs. D-Brick has regressed Mangold seems to not be himself where's his leadership on the field. We are 5-6 doing a lot better than many predicted. The team is r-e-g-r-e-s-s-i-n-g. Same as the last 2 seasons. If this is the 3rd straight year of regression at the end of the year for Rex, that will spell his doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 The team is r-e-g-r-e-s-s-i-n-g. Same as the last 2 seasons. If this is the 3rd straight year of regression at the end of the year for Rex, that will spell his doom. I'm impressed at your spelling, but if they go 1 for 5 to finish the season they will not "regressed." They will have stagnated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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