Winters Struggles on "O" Line

[flgreen]

NY Jets rookie Brian Winters struggles on offensive line

 

Winters is performing poorly enough that some on the outside are wondering if the Jets ought to make a change at least while the playoffs are still possible, turning back to Vlad Ducasse.

 

BY SETH WALDER / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

 

TUESDAY, DECEMBER 10, 2013, 10:48 PM

 

 

 

Brian Winters had a rough game against the Raiders and has been one of several rookies to have had a hard time this season for the Jets.

 

 

Despite what Rex Ryan might say publicly, his rookies as a group have failed to meet expectations. Geno Smith has struggled mightily in many of his games. Dee Milliner has been benched three times for poor performance. But right alongside them has been Brian Winters, who has not been an adequate left guard since taking over the starting job from Vlad Ducasse in Week 5.

 

 

Although Smith and Milliner’s problems are far more in the public eye, Winters is performing poorly enough that some on the outside are wondering if the Jets ought to make a change at least while the playoffs are still possible. While the best alternative isn’t pretty — turning back to the underwhelming Ducasse — Winters’ issues are dramatic enough that it could be considered. But despite Winters’ rough transition into the starting lineup, at least two of his linemates feel it would be counter-productive to make a change now, especially since such a move would also affect D’Brickashaw Ferguson, the Jets’ best offensive lineman.

 

 

“That doesn’t do nothing for us,” Willie Colon told the Daily News. “At the same time it’s bigger than (Winters and) Vlad: it’s Brick. Brick has to work with them; he’s just now trying to build a rapport with Brian. To have that flip-flop at this time doesn’t help anybody.”

 

 

Winters, who is currently rated 72nd of 76 guards across the league by ProFootballFocus.com, surrendered two quarterback hits and one hurry against the Raiders on Sunday. But worse than that was his blocking in the run game: all three negative runs the Jets had last Sunday were directly tied to Winters getting beat. But still, his teammates stand by him.

 

 

“I don’t think that’s obviously the answer, to makes moves, changes,” Ferguson said.

 

 

“That’s something maybe later down the road you can entertain again, but right now Brian’s our guy,” Colon added. “You’ve got to stay with him.”

 

 

Ducasse said he hasn’t been told his role will change in the coming weeks.

 

 

Winters played tackle in college, but transitioned to guard as a Jet. It’s a move Colon can relate to, after having made the same transition during his pro career.

 

 

“A lot of it’s spacing,” Colon said. “Knowing where your help’s at. Knowing how to react to things.”

 

 

“He knows that a lot of his mishaps are his own doing and a lot of it’s mechanical issues,” Colon added. “It’s his first time playing left guard in the NFL, and you know it takes time, time to grow, time to develop. It’s just a matter of staying patient.”

 

 

MAKES THE GRADE

 

David Harris likely won’t forget about how badly he was juked on Sunday. It was a bad missed tackle against any runner, but it was far worse because the ball carrier who eluded him was Raiders QB Matt McGloin. The quarterback ended up running for 20 yards on the fourth-quarter play.

 

 

It was surprising, too, because Harris has rebounded nicely this season after disappointing a year ago. And he’s receiving high praise from his linebackers coach, Brian VanGorder.

 

 

“The assignment grades that he gets are as high as I’ve ever had for a linebacker,” VanGorder said. “So he’s really been outstanding.”

 

 

VanGorder has previously coached for the Falcons, Jaguars and Auburn Tigers. He hands out a plus or minus assignment and technique grade for each play.

 

 

“I think he’s a very realistic professional, so him recognizing that his play a year ago wasn’t up to his standards and expectations, based on who he is, you were going to get a positive response,” VanGorder said.

 

 

* * *

 

X’s AND O’s

Rex Ryan’s explanation for why Ed Reed played less on Sunday was because he knew it was going to be a “physical” game. Translation: Reed’s greatest deficiency is tackling, and when Terrelle Pryor came in the game, the Jets needed someone who would hit.

 

HOT SEAT

 

Who else but Ryan? With the Jets at 6-7, Ryan’s job security is certainly in question, but it’s plenty possible that Woody Johnson and John Idzik have already made up their minds one way or the other regardless of how the next three games turn out.

 

 

WHISPERS

 

Muhammad Wilkerson had a surprisingly weak game against the Raiders. It probably isn’t cause for concern — even the best have off days — but he didn’t look like the Pro Bowler he’s been for most of the rest of the season.

 

Twitter.com/SethWalderNYDN

 

 

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/jets-insider-rookie-struggles-o-line-article-1.1544083#ixzz2nAzgGLEN

[whodeawhodat]

Hello winters, meet star....

[flgreen]

Hello winters, meet star....

Yeah

 

Going to be ugly.  Sad thing is it will affect the play of Brick and Mangold also.  

[Lupz27]

But how many rookies don't struggle their 1st year? Are we talking the guy is an abortion, and will always be one? Or guy is an abortion, but with another NFL offseason with conditioning, and coaching ect. will the struggles stop? That's the real question IMO. Can't blame Winters because Tannenbaum drafted a bum in the 2nd round to play LG 3 years ago, and because he is a bum Winters must learn the hard way as a rookie.

[JiFtheOracle]

Meh, I'm not overly concerned.  I think he'll be fine.  He's transitioning to a new position coming from a small school.  Yes, he's terrible right now but I think this is invaluable experience he's gaining right now and hopefully it helps him for next season.

 

Also, Ryan gave Reed limited snaps based on the game plan?  What happened to loyality, blah blah blah?

[faba]

Yes it has to be remembered that he has switched positions from what he played in college. Lets see if he can progress. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

Hello winters, meet star....

 

He and Kawann Short. The Panthers did a hell of a job bringing in some talent to that defensive line through the draft this year. 

 

 

 

*While Winters is struggling, the transition from being a Tackle at Kent State to Guard in the NFL shouldn't be overlooked. It's a tough move and if we weren't burned so badly on Vlad, I think we'd have a bit more patience. Although it certainly seemed Idzik wanted to stand pat and take BPA, I still wish he would have bucked that idea and traded up for Larry Warford. He manhandled better talent all season and then blew up the senior bowl, just seemed like the smarter and safer move.

[sourceworx]

Another Idzik Bust

[JiFtheOracle]

He and Kawann Short. The Panthers did a hell of a job bringing in some talent to that defensive line through the draft this year. 

 

 

 

*While Winters is struggling, the transition from being a Tackle at Kent State to Guard in the NFL shouldn't be overlooked. It's a tough move and if we weren't burned so badly on Vlad, I think we'd have a bit more patience. Although it certainly seemed Idzik wanted to stand pat and take BPA, I still wish he would have bucked that idea and traded up for Larry Warford. He manhandled better talent all season and then blew up the senior bowl, just seemed like the smarter and safer move.

 

Warford was the guy I was screaming for in the second while everyone was drooling over Warmack and Cooper at 9.  Warford has been the best of the 3.  That said, I liked what I was reading about Winters and loved the value...like you said, he's transitioning and a small school guy.  That's a steep learning curve and I do think this will help him to be ready for week 1, next season.

[flgreen]

Meh, I'm not overly concerned.  I think he'll be fine.  He's transitioning to a new position coming from a small school.  Yes, he's terrible right now but I think this is invaluable experience he's gaining right now and hopefully it helps him for next season.

 

Also, Ryan gave Reed limited snaps based on the game plan?  What happened to loyality, blah blah blah?

 

 

yep, word is he is hiring Jonathan Martin as an adviser, to help him get through the stress of being a terrible OG

[sourceworx]

yep, word is he is hiring Jonathan Martin as an adviser, to help him get through the stress of being a terrible OG

We could have had Warmack, but Idzik panicked and took Milliner.

That's worked out really well.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Warford was the guy I was screaming for in the second while everyone was drooling over Warmack and Cooper at 9.  Warford has been the best of the 3.  That said, I liked what I was reading about Winters and loved the value...like you said, he's transitioning and a small school guy.  That's a steep learning curve and I do think this will help him to be ready for week 1, next season.

 

Same. I forget the knocks on him: maybe too fat or poor pass-pro, but he was hands down the best guard in the run-game that I saw last year and that includes Warmack. He reminded me of a sloppier Carl Nicks coming out.

[BroadwayJoe12]

We could have had Warmack, but Idzik panicked and took Milliner.

That's worked out really well.

 

We could have, but then drafting a guard in the top 10 who's not even close to being the best guard in the class is quite the stretch.  Milliner had one of his best games this past week, it's possible he's taking time to develop, just like Chance.

[sourceworx]

We could have, but then drafting a guard in the top 10 who's not even close to being the best guard in the class is quite the stretch. Milliner had one of his best games this past week, it's possible he's taking time to develop, just like Chance.

Yep, shutting down those all-world Raider wideouts was quite the feat for ol' Dee. The corner has been turned.

[JiFtheOracle]

We could have, but then drafting a guard in the top 10 who's not even close to being the best guard in the class is quite the stretch.  Milliner had one of his best games this past week, it's possible he's taking time to develop, just like Chance.

 

The last time I read up on Guard rankings, Warmack hasnt been good at all. Decent in the run game, absolute disaster in pass protection...but I havent read up on the rankings in a bit. With Cooper injured for the year...this board would be going mental if we took a guard who isnt playing or sucks with the 9th overall pick.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Yep, shutting down those all-world Raider wideouts was quite the feat for ol' Dee. The corner has been turned.

 

Being targeted three times and allowing zero completion is most certainly a step in the right direction. You can continue to bang the table about Warmack, but if we were getting his sub-par level of play on our line, the board would be having a sh*tfit. You spend a top 10 pick on an interior lineman and you expect probowl type of play right out of the gate: something that you're seeing from Larry Warford.  On the other hand, you use your top 10 pick for someone like Dee who has elite skills and can develop into a much more premium position. Dee's obviously has a rough go, but the raw talent is there and he's making strides. 

[Maxman]

Serious question, how would anyone who covers the Jets for the Daily News actually know if Wilkerson had a bad game or not?

[HessStation]

Another Idzik Bust

Holy crap imagine if Richardson wasn't picked.

[Villain The Foe]

Meh, I'm not overly concerned.  I think he'll be fine.  He's transitioning to a new position coming from a small school.  Yes, he's terrible right now but I think this is invaluable experience he's gaining right now and hopefully it helps him for next season.

 

Also, Ryan gave Reed limited snaps based on the game plan?  What happened to loyality, blah blah blah?

The loyalty was even signing him since he's washed up. 

[JiFtheOracle]

The loyalty was even signing him since he's washed up.

Good point. Hopefully by the time Idzik hires Bevell he'll become the grown up in the room who can put his foot down and not let his Head Coach make a bunch of stupid signings because of loyalty, type of GM.

[T0mShane]

Why does Winters look like Ducasse? Why does Geno look like Sanchez? Why does Milliner look like Kyle Wilson? Problem might be in the ol' coachin', because that's the common denominator

[Villain The Foe]

Good point. Hopefully by the time Idzik hires Bevell he'll become the grown up in the room who can put his foot down and not let his Head Coach make a bunch of stupid signings because of loyalty, type of GM.

I wouldnt say that the signing was stupid. Reed lost his physical ability, but his brain still works. The signing could be great for the young safeties that we have on the team in regards to them being able to pick a veterans brain. Then again, how well is that going for a guy like Geno Smith with David Garrard? 

 

Maybe it was a stupid signing lol. 

[JiFtheOracle]

Why does Winters look like Ducasse? Why does Geno look like Sanchez? Why does Milliner look like Kyle Wilson? Problem might be in the ol' coachin', because that's the common denominator

Why does Wilkerson look like JJ Watt? Why does Harrison look like Richardson? Why is Coples suddenly balling? Why does Harris look like Davis? Why is Kerley such a beast on 3rd down? Why are Ivory and Powell looking like a legit RB duo?

[T0mShane]

Why does Wilkerson look like JJ Watt? Why does Harrison look like Richardson? Why is Coples suddenly balling? Why does Harris look like Davis? Why is Kerley such a beast on 3rd down? Why are Ivory and Powell looking like a legit RB duo?

Because the head coach is a DL coach.

[sourceworx]

Holy crap imagine if Richardson wasn't picked.

4 picks in the first three rounds. One is good, the rest are disasters. Impressive!

[sourceworx]

Why does Winters look like Ducasse? Why does Geno look like Sanchez? Why does Milliner look like Kyle Wilson? Problem might be in the ol' coachin', because that's the common denominator

Winters looks nothing like Vlad. Vlad is actually a decent athlete, and is very strong. His problem is his 10 cent brain (you can relate).

Winters, on the other hand, is a mediocre athlete, and has the strength of a ninth grader. The only reason he's starting is because Idzik is forcing Rex's hand.

"Competition."

[sirlancemehlot]

Meh. From what I've been reading around here Winters plays offensive line. Those guys don't count. Dime a dozen. So what if six of the top 11 picks this year were Olineman. Drafting a guard top ten is gross and dumb.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Why does Winters look like Ducasse? Why does Geno look like Sanchez? Why does Milliner look like Kyle Wilson? Problem might be in the ol' coachin', because that's the common denominator

 

Please tell me which Head Coach are you going to find that is not only going to oversee the entire team, but micromanage to the point where he oversteps the O-line coach, the quarterback coach and the d-back's coach to simultaneously teach technique to the O-line, quarterbacks and defensive backs and somehow create a game-plan for the entire team. 

 

Not to be too anecdotal, but having actually been on the field for a D-1 team, Head Coaches do not spend equal time with each unit, it's the reason you have position coaches. There is simply no possible way for any single coach, let alone the head coach, to teach technique to the entire team, which is something you apparently believe. This is just a fictitious argument you've created to attack Rex. If you want to crucify him for lack of development, talk about his inability to find a quality Oline or WR coach. Because I guarantee you were giving Callahan all the credit when our Oline was the best in the league and not Rex, but now it's fair to blame him for the Oline playing poorly? 

[T0mShane]

Please tell me which Head Coach are you going to find that is not only going to oversee the entire team, but micromanage to the point where he oversteps the O-line coach, the quarterback coach and the d-back's coach to simultaneously teach technique to the O-line, quarterbacks and defensive backs and somehow create a game-plan for the entire team.

Not to be too anecdotal, but having actually been on the field for a D-1 team, Head Coaches do not spend equal time with each unit, it's the reason you have position coaches. There is simply no possible way for any single coach, let alone the head coach, to teach technique to the entire team, which is something you apparently believe. This is just a fictitious argument you've created to attack Rex. If you want to crucify him for lack of development, talk about his inability to find a quality Oline or WR coach. Because I guarantee you were giving Callahan all the credit when our Oline was the best in the league and not Rex, but now it's fair to blame him for the Oline playing poorly?

Whoa there, buckaroo. I'm just asking questions here. Players change. The GM changed. The results are the same. I'm just connecting some dots here.

[sourceworx]

Please tell me which Head Coach are you going to find that is not only going to oversee the entire team, but micromanage to the point where he oversteps the O-line coach, the quarterback coach and the d-back's coach to simultaneously teach technique to the O-line, quarterbacks and defensive backs and somehow create a game-plan for the entire team.

Not to be too anecdotal, but having actually been on the field for a D-1 team, Head Coaches do not spend equal time with each unit, it's the reason you have position coaches. There is simply no possible way for any single coach, let alone the head coach, to teach technique to the entire team, which is something you apparently believe. This is just a fictitious argument you've created to attack Rex. If you want to crucify him for lack of development, talk about his inability to find a quality Oline or WR coach. Because I guarantee you were giving Callahan all the credit when our Oline was the best in the league and not Rex, but now it's fair to blame him for the Oline playing poorly?

This post is like explaining how an internal combustion engine works to Rosemary Kennedy.

Way over T0m's head.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Whoa there, buckaroo. I'm just asking questions here. Players change. The GM changed. The results are the same. I'm just connecting some dots here.

 

I actually find riding horses to be rather uncomfortable. Not very natural. But you like the biguns no? Maybe more up your alley. 

[T0mShane]

I actually find riding horses to be rather uncomfortable. Not very natural. But you like the biguns no? Maybe more up your alley.

Hurtful. JiF is the one who's into fatties. I'm heavy into MILFs and Amy Adams.

[SenorGato]

Why does Winters look like Ducasse? Why does Geno look like Sanchez? Why does Milliner look like Kyle Wilson? Problem might be in the ol' coachin', because that's the common denominator

 

The actual answer is that these comparisons are lazy, which is fine for fans to do because they don't actually have to do anything but react.

[T0mShane]

The actual answer is that these comparisons are lazy, which is fine for fans to do because they don't actually have to do anything but react.

The adjective that best describes SeñorGato is "industrious."

[BroadwayJoe12]

Hurtful. JiF is the one who's into fatties. I'm heavy into MILFs and Amy Adams.

 

I knew someone liked the fatties. Totally hear you on Amy Adams by the way: I suspect you're waiting anxiously to see American Hustle? Besides the movie looking awesome, really would see it just for her and Jlaw.