Jetsfan80 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I assume this is regular season record only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Average thank you for being consistent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 Average thank you for being consistent Would it be better to be Lions fans? Serious question. Lions fans are some of the funniest people you'll ever meet. We're all just blue-balled and angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Why 2002? Why not 2000? Seems kinda random. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Would it be better to be Lions fans? Serious question. Lions fans are some of the funniest people you'll ever meet. We're all just blue-balled and angry. We are what we are-better than some franchises but not good enough to be considered a top franchise-average Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewillie78 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Just proves that if you consistently finish 9-7, 8-8, 7-9, you consistently get the mediocre middle of the 1st round draft picks, you get the middle of the road FA's because the top guys want to get a ring, so they go to the top franchises. Only way to get out of this vicious cycle, is to either TANK (see indy), so you can draft that Franchise QB, CHANGE COACHES (see SF, and SEATTLE), or trade the house so you can get that FRANCHISE QB (See Redskins). Conclusion: In 2014, Jets should TANK, fire REX,hire Darrel Bevell, draft Jameis Winston in 2015. However, if things go according to "plan" in 2014, we will be 9-7, 8-8,or 7-9 finish ouside the playoffs and have the 17th pick in the draft. WHOOPEE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 Why 2002? Why not 2000? Seems kinda random. Not sure. If they were going for a 10 year period it doesn't work, of course. Maybe they wanted to factor out the 2001 season because the Patriots cheated hardcore that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Yes Darrell Bevell will solve all this franchise problems- with out any head coaching experience put all your faith in him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 They did it from 2002 because that was Houston's first season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Not sure. If they were going for a 10 year period it doesn't work, of course. Maybe they wanted to factor out the 2001 season because the Patriots cheated hardcore that year. That would cover 2000-2007 in the Pats case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 Yes Darrell Bevell will solve all this franchise problems- with out any head coaching experience put all your faith in him Nah, we need a Bevell gene-spliced with Gruden combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Just proves that if you consistently finish 9-7, 8-8, 7-9, you consistently get the mediocre middle of the 1st round draft picks, you get the middle of the road FA's because the top guys want to get a ring, so they go to the top franchises. Only way to get out of this vicious cycle, is to either TANK (see indy), so you can draft that Franchise QB, CHANGE COACHES (see SF, and SEATTLE), or trade the house so you can get that FRANCHISE QB (See Redskins). Conclusion: In 2014, Jets should TANK, fire REX,hire Darrel Bevell, draft Jameis Winston in 2015. However, if things go according to "plan" in 2014, we will be 9-7, 8-8,or 7-9 finish ouside the playoffs and have the 17th pick in the draft. WHOOPEE. Redskins are not a very good example now, are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 Redskins are not a very good example now, are they? Well that's because they have an awful owner. Tanking when needed + Strong owner/front office combo = Success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Just proves that if you consistently finish 9-7, 8-8, 7-9, you consistently get the mediocre middle of the 1st round draft picks, you get the middle of the road FA's because the top guys want to get a ring, so they go to the top franchises. Only way to get out of this vicious cycle, is to either TANK (see indy), so you can draft that Franchise QB, CHANGE COACHES (see SF, and SEATTLE), or trade the house so you can get that FRANCHISE QB (See Redskins). Conclusion: In 2014, Jets should TANK, fire REX,hire Darrel Bevell, draft Jameis Winston in 2015. However, if things go according to "plan" in 2014, we will be 9-7, 8-8,or 7-9 finish ouside the playoffs and have the 17th pick in the draft. WHOOPEE. While I get the general concept of what you're saying, these examples actually tell you why there's a whole lot more to it than one simply switch. Hell, Jets history should tell you it takes a WHOLE lot more than a sh*tty season or a coaching change to make everything better. You can credit Indy with the "tank" all you want, but there was nothing deliberate about that; truth is that Indy are the luckiest SOBs going, finding themselves with the #1 pick for what are arguably the two best QB prospects of the past two decades. It wasn't some brilliant ploy to intentionally tank the season after a rough start, Manning's health (which had never before been a problem in his entire career) was the entire reason behind that. Even Seattle's coaching change didn't do much for them until they managed to find a franchise QB in the third round of the draft. If Matt Flynn is their starter, does anyone honestly believe they do much better than the 7-9 seasons in Carroll's first two years? And the Redskins giving up a huge bounty for their franchise QB has become more of a question than an answer over the past year. None of this to say that the Jets don't have plenty of changes needed, I just don't buy that it's as simple as you make it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewillie78 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Redskins are not a very good example now, are they? IF RGIII stays healthy they are. His rookie season was all-world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Just proves that if you consistently finish 9-7, 8-8, 7-9, you consistently get the mediocre middle of the 1st round draft picks, you get the middle of the road FA's because the top guys want to get a ring, so they go to the top franchises. Only way to get out of this vicious cycle, is to either TANK (see indy), so you can draft that Franchise QB, CHANGE COACHES (see SF, and SEATTLE), or trade the house so you can get that FRANCHISE QB (See Redskins). Conclusion: In 2014, Jets should TANK, fire REX,hire Darrel Bevell, draft Jameis Winston in 2015. However, if things go according to "plan" in 2014, we will be 9-7, 8-8,or 7-9 finish ouside the playoffs and have the 17th pick in the draft. WHOOPEE. We drafted Robertson at #4, Ferguson at #4, Gholston at #6, and Sanchez at #5. This past year took Milliner at #9. These are not middle of the first round draft picks and it's nearly half the drafts over that span. In addition to those, we also drafted at #29 (Wilson), and #30 (Wilkerson) because we reached the championship game. In 2007, when we took Revis at #14, we traded up to get there. Our original pick was #25 after winning 10 games in '06. Our original pick in 2005 was #26 after winning 11 games (including the playoffs) in 2004. So let's recap how the Jets always pick in the middle of round 1 because of going 7-9 through 9-7: 4x did bad enough to get a top 10 pick (3 of those times top 6). Yay for sucking that bad!! 4x we picked towards the bottom of round 1 because we did well. 1x when we did end up with a pick in the middle of round 1, we traded up to #5. 9 out of 12 years. You sure you follow the Jets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 If it was that simple to win a championship- i think 32 teams would have figured that out by now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 While I get the general concept of what you're saying, these examples actually tell you why there's a whole lot more to it than one simply switch. Hell, Jets history should tell you it takes a WHOLE lot more than a sh*tty season or a coaching change to make everything better. You can credit Indy with the "tank" all you want, but there was nothing deliberate about that; truth is that Indy are the luckiest SOBs going, finding themselves with the #1 pick for what are arguably the two best QB prospects of the past two decades. It wasn't some brilliant ploy to intentionally tank the season after a rough start, Manning's health (which had never before been a problem in his entire career) was the entire reason behind that. Even Seattle's coaching change didn't do much for them until they managed to find a franchise QB in the third round of the draft. If Matt Flynn is their starter, does anyone honestly believe they do much better than the 7-9 seasons in Carroll's first two years? And the Redskins giving up a huge bounty for their franchise QB has become more of a question than an answer over the past year. None of this to say that the Jets don't have plenty of changes needed, I just don't buy that it's as simple as you make it out to be. It's more than just luck. Yes, the Colts lucked into Manning & Luck, but they also found ways to add talented players around those guys. Look at the Jets and Colts the last few seasons. Jets take Stephen Hill in the 2nd round while the Colts take Hilton in the 3rd. Does a guy like Andrew Luck help? Yes. Does having Wayne next to you help? Yes. But as proved this season, Hilton is a good player in his own right. Whereas Hill probably won't be in the NFL after this season. Huge difference. And look at the Seahawks. They have a lot of guys on that team who are late round picks. They were also a team who still had good QB play after tow of their biggest Receiving transactions over the past few years were more like busts. Rice is essentially useless. And Harvin is great, but he played like 4 games this season. Sometimes teams do luck into a Manning or Brady or Wilson or Rodgers and so on. But most of the teams that continue to win seem to know how to do these things. It wasn't like Rodgers just took over the position. Favre was still the QB for years after that. And they went to a NFC Championship game with Favre. Some teams just seem to know how to consistently build winning organizations. They also know how to pick well. Again Aaron Rodgers is a late first round pick who sat for a few years. Mark Sanchez was a top 5 pick who started from day one. And he pretty much showed he was never going to be close to any of those other guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 As bad as it is being a Jets fan, it can always be worse. Good lord look at some of those records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewillie78 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 We drafted Robertson at #4, Ferguson at #4, Gholston at #6, and Sanchez at #5. This past year took Milliner at #9. These are not middle of the first round draft picks and it's nearly half the drafts over that span. In addition to those, we also drafted at #29 (Wilson), and #30 (Wilkerson) because we reached the championship game. In 2007, when we took Revis at #14, we traded up to get there. Our original pick was #25 after winning 10 games in '06. Our original pick in 2005 was #26 after winning 11 games (including the playoffs) in 2004. So let's recap how the Jets always pick in the middle of round 1 because of going 7-9 through 9-7: 4x did bad enough to get a top 10 pick (3 of those times top 6). Yay for sucking that bad!! 4x we picked towards the bottom of round 1 because we did well. 1x when we did end up with a pick in the middle of round 1, we traded up to #5. 9 out of 12 years. You sure you follow the Jets? So when the Jets get or trade up to a minimum of a TOP 6 pick, the results are as follows: Robertson: Epic Bust Gholston: All world Bust Sanchez: Historical Bust Ferguson: Above average WOW, why do we trade up? And given this draft history, your right, we should never TANK, because 75% of the time, we will draft an historically bad bust. Has any other team EVER had 4 TOP 6 picks this bad? I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewillie78 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 As bad as it is being a Jets fan, it can always be worse. Good lord look at some of those records. High suicide rates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 It's more than just luck. Yes, the Colts lucked into Manning & Luck, but they also found ways to add talented players around those guys. Look at the Jets and Colts the last few seasons. Jets take Stephen Hill in the 2nd round while the Colts take Hilton in the 3rd. Does a guy like Andrew Luck help? Yes. Does having Wayne next to you help? Yes. But as proved this season, Hilton is a good player in his own right. Whereas Hill probably won't be in the NFL after this season. Huge difference. And look at the Seahawks. They have a lot of guys on that team who are late round picks. They were also a team who still had good QB play after tow of their biggest Receiving transactions over the past few years were more like busts. Rice is essentially useless. And Harvin is great, but he played like 4 games this season. Sometimes teams do luck into a Manning or Brady or Wilson or Rodgers and so on. But most of the teams that continue to win seem to know how to do these things. It wasn't like Rodgers just took over the position. Favre was still the QB for years after that. And they went to a NFC Championship game with Favre. Some teams just seem to know how to consistently build winning organizations. They also know how to pick well. Again Aaron Rodgers is a late first round pick who sat for a few years. Mark Sanchez was a top 5 pick who started from day one. And he pretty much showed he was never going to be close to any of those other guys. I don't disagree with you, that was actually my point. It takes a little more than one simple move to get a team over the hump, having one awful season that gets you the #1 overall pick or hiring a new HC isn't going to do the trick all on it's own. A lot of things need to be done right for it to all work out and the point being that, the Colts sucking when they did or the Seahawks hiring Carroll wouldn't have meant much on their own if it wasn't for the plenty of other things right those teams did / were doing. As far as the whole "luck" concept goes, I never once even hinted that all of those team's successes were reliant on that, quite the contrary. I only even mentioned it in regards to the Colts, and while they seem to have done better recently (although that Richardson deal was awful), I think their 2011 season proves how absolutely awful of a job they really had previously done in building that team; they were nothing without Manning. In the end they were still lucky bastards to be in line to get what were considered to be the two most "sure thing" QBs of this generation. There was no good scouting or great development that can be credited for it, they just had all-time type prospects given to them on a silver platter. Of course no matter what the reason, that doesn't change the fact that the Colts have still continually been one of the AFC's best for many, many years now (with that one exception). But it doesn't mean any team awful enough to end up at #1 overall is destined for future greatness because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Tanking as an organizational strategy is a myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 So when the Jets get or trade up to a minimum of a TOP 6 pick, the results are as follows: Robertson: Epic Bust Gholston: All world Bust Sanchez: Historical Bust Ferguson: Above average WOW, why do we trade up? And given this draft history, your right, we should never TANK, because 75% of the time, we will draft an historically bad bust. Has any other team EVER had 4 TOP 6 picks this bad? I doubt it. Your complaint was that the Jets kept drafting in the middle of round 1. The reality is that drafting around #16 or so, like this year, has been unusual. The last time they traded up into the 16-ish range they took the best player we've drafted like ever. It's only a shame we weren't able to hold onto him his whole career with his threats and actual holdouts. They've drafted some good players and some bad (and some just horrible). But it wasn't because of where in the draft that they picked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Tanking as an organizational strategy is a myth. Come on, Jim Caldwell totally wanted to get himself fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Your complaint was that the Jets kept drafting in the middle of round 1. The reality is that drafting around #16 or so, like this year, has been unusual. The last time they traded up into the 16-ish range they took the best player we've drafted like ever. It's only a shame we weren't able to hold onto him his whole career with his threats and actual holdouts. They've drafted some good players and some bad (and some just horrible). But it wasn't because of where in the draft that they picked. Which is only further supported by the fact that their recent #30 pick (Wilkerson) is worlds better than their #5 pick (Sanchez). And last year's #13 pick (Richardson) was the DROY, even in spite of the Jets roundly getting trashed for the pick. The Jets have lots of problems, but their draft slot certainly is not at the top of that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Imagine you're a Lions fan, working in the auto industry and you hate a Eminem. I mean. Wow. Maybe the Red Wings are a saving grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 Tanking as an organizational strategy is a myth. Not in the NBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Not in the NBA. Especially before 1985. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Come on, Jim Caldwell totally wanted to get himself fired. Yeah, but not until he convinced guys to underperform so they could get risk getting cut all the while lowering their market value. Irsay, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Yeah, but not until he convinced guys to underperform so they could get risk getting cut all the while lowering their market value. Irsay, man. It's all for the greater good man. Dozens of people all were willing to sacrifice their jobs, and in Peyton's case his health, all so a team they would no longer be a part of would have the opportunity to be led by Andrew Luck. The brilliance of the NFL at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewillie78 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Your complaint was that the Jets kept drafting in the middle of round 1. The reality is that drafting around #16 or so, like this year, has been unusual. The last time they traded up into the 16-ish range they took the best player we've drafted like ever. It's only a shame we weren't able to hold onto him his whole career with his threats and actual holdouts. They've drafted some good players and some bad (and some just horrible). But it wasn't because of where in the draft that they picked. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Which is only further supported by the fact that their recent #30 pick (Wilkerson) is worlds better than their #5 pick (Sanchez). And last year's #13 pick (Richardson) was the DROY, even in spite of the Jets roundly getting trashed for the pick. The Jets have lots of problems, but their draft slot certainly is not at the top of that list. Exactly. The problem with the Jets roster isn't who they did or didn't select in the first round, it's all the picks afterwards that they traded away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 hey Miami, buffalo and Oakland.......suck it !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 So when the Jets get or trade up to a minimum of a TOP 6 pick, the results are as follows: Robertson: Epic Bust Gholston: All world Bust Sanchez: Historical Bust Ferguson: Above average WOW, why do we trade up? And given this draft history, your right, we should never TANK, because 75% of the time, we will draft an historically bad bust. Has any other team EVER had 4 TOP 6 picks this bad? I doubt it. Just about every team has had busts just as bad or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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