JetsFanInDenver Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 It depends on the definition of starter. Brian Winters was a starter they got out of last year's draft. So was Geno. How about players that could start on another team, not just this terrible one. We are talking about last draft not the one previous to that. Correct ? I am still not ready to pass judgement on this 2014 draft class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Last year we were supposed to be impressed by all the starters that Idzik landed. A CB (4 good games, missed this season), D lineman (great pick), QB (who has been horrible) OG (very low rated and did not seem to improve for 2014) and a FB (is that still even a thing?). This year we are supposed to be impressed that last years #5 has been better at LG than last year's #3. I am not impressed. How many starters did we get in 2012? Even if they all turn out, we are looking at S, TE, CB, WR, G and DE/LB. This team was absolutely desperate at CB and WR and got zero from the draft. We are not talking of 2013 draft. I think it's premature to pass a judgement on 2014 draft. If you draft a Safety you hope he develops into a Safety at the NFL level. If you draft a TE you hope he develops into a stud TE. There is no doubt at that point of time they were the BPA when the JETS made that pick. So i don't understand the bolded. If we get on starting CB (this kid did show some solid potential) and one starting WR from this draft how is it a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 We are not talking of 2013 draft. I think it's premature to pass a judgement on 2014 draft. If you draft a Safety you hope he develops into a Safety at the NFL level. If you draft a TE you hope he develops into a stud TE. There is no doubt at that point of time they were the BPA when the JETS made that pick. So i don't understand the bolded. If we get on starting CB (this kid did show some solid potential) and one starting WR from this draft how is it a failure. Those are a great many ifs. The bolded are all the guys that are left. The have already let their top WR pick, another WR, LB and CB walk. I will absolve him of the horrific QB because it appeared to be Ryan's pick. Of course there are doubts they were BPA. I think that Pryor will be fine. I think that Amaro will be an okay TE, but I am not particularly impressed. The team needed WR and they burned 3 picks and chose Amaro. Amaro is the only one that can be considered viable. The main point I agree with is Bit's. It is easier to evaluate a draft early when the player are not on the team. Maybe some of these guys will pick up under a new coach, but it looks pretty bleak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Here's the thing. You can fire Rex, and you can fire Idzik, but I absolutely reject the idea (and inevitable future narrative) that Rex got fired because of Idzik. It's of crucial importance that we, presently, acknowledge that Rex is getting fired due to his own inadequacy so that we, in the future, don't convince ourselves as Jets fans that Rex was actually a good coach here. Rex is getting fired because of Rex. I will remain vigilant until each and all understand this. Rex deserves to be fired for numerous things ... failure to develop an offense is the primary one as I see it, but failure to improve on game day management is another point that can't be ignored, and is nothing to do with the GM. On defense there is an element of chicken & egg ... didn't have the players etc. But truly good defensive coaches adjust and work around personnel deficiencies, and there doesn't seem to have been enough of that this year. Idzik has several black marks on his resume too, which are nothing to do with Rex. The roster we have is not good enough and appears to be going in reverse in several areas. The WR situation has already been done to death so I won't go over that again; similarly CB - even if the injuries hadn't happened, is a depleted area. QB, at least he tried something, the fact it hasn't worked out isn't exactly reason enough to run him out of town on that alone. But if his plan is to stick with Geno next year and "see what a new coach can do with him" I'd be hailing him a cab right now. I think his future will depend a lot on what his plan for next year is - if he can sell Woody that things are going the right way he'll end probably up sticking around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincenzo69 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 What part of the team would you say is well coached right now? Which player? Yeah it's Rex's fault Cal Pryor is slow and Jalen Saunders has no talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincenzo69 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 We are not talking of 2013 draft. I think it's premature to pass a judgement on 2014 draft. If you draft a Safety you hope he develops into a Safety at the NFL level. If you draft a TE you hope he develops into a stud TE. There is no doubt at that point of time they were the BPA when the JETS made that pick. So i don't understand the bolded. If we get on starting CB (this kid did show some solid potential) and one starting WR from this draft how is it a failure. Half the picks aren't on the roster and the Cb you say makes or breaks this already has a serious knee injury. Not premature to judge this draft and call it what it is: an unmitigated disaster. We have to get Idzikiot out of here or risk another dark ages like the mid-90's but worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourceworx Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Here's the thing. You can fire Rex, and you can fire Idzik, but I absolutely reject the idea (and inevitable future narrative) that Rex got fired because of Idzik. It's of crucial importance that we, presently, acknowledge that Rex is getting fired due to his own inadequacy so that we, in the future, don't convince ourselves as Jets fans that Rex was actually a good coach here. Rex is getting fired because of Rex. I will remain vigilant until each and all understand this. Rex is not getting fired because of Idzik. He's getting fired because his teams lack discipline, and more importantly, because he has failed to develop two highly drafted QBs. Most coaches don't get a second chance to do so, he shouldn't get a third. But Rex being a sh!tty coach is not an excuse for Idzik being a sh!tty GM. The guy has done a terrible job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincenzo69 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Rex is not getting fired because of Idzik. He's getting fired because his teams lack discipline, and more importantly, because he has failed to develop two highly drafted QBs. Most coaches don't get a second chance to do so, he shouldn't get a third. Yeah but here's the thing: if Rex wants to stick around he will get a DC gig next year and be successful at it. He might even get an HC gig someplace like ATL. Idzikiot will never get another GM job anywhere ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sg3 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Yeah but here's the thing: if Rex wants to stick around he will get a DC gig next year and be successful at it. He might even get an HC gig someplace like ATL. Idzikiot will never get another GM job anywhere ever again. I think he will be the next DC of the Saints. The one they currently have is really bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourceworx Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Yeah but here's the thing: if Rex wants to stick around he will get a DC gig next year and be successful at it. He might even get an HC gig someplace like ATL. Idzikiot will never get another GM job anywhere ever again. Yeah Rex will eventually get a gig as a DC somewhere, or maybe even a head coaching job in the college ranks. I could see him doing well as a college coach. Idzik will never sniff another GM position again. Hell he may be out of football altogether after this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Rex deserves to be fired for numerous things ... failure to develop an offense is the primary one as I see it, but failure to improve on game day management is another point that can't be ignored, and is nothing to do with the GM. On defense there is an element of chicken & egg ... didn't have the players etc. But truly good defensive coaches adjust and work around personnel deficiencies, and there doesn't seem to have been enough of that this year. Idzik has several black marks on his resume too, which are nothing to do with Rex. The roster we have is not good enough and appears to be going in reverse in several areas. The WR situation has already been done to death so I won't go over that again; similarly CB - even if the injuries hadn't happened, is a depleted area. QB, at least he tried something, the fact it hasn't worked out isn't exactly reason enough to run him out of town on that alone. But if his plan is to stick with Geno next year and "see what a new coach can do with him" I'd be hailing him a cab right now. I think his future will depend a lot on what his plan for next year is - if he can sell Woody that things are going the right way he'll end probably up sticking around. Boo If you let Iddy stay and hire his coach and it fails and Woody then fires him, the next GM will prob want his HC. You have to fire IDDY now, he had a chance to fire Rex after 1st yr and pick his guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoeword Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 On the other hand, the draft is just a crapshoot anyway, so maybe Idzik is "due", and he'll make some good picks next time out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 The main point I agree with is Bit's. It is easier to evaluate a draft early when the player are not on the team. Maybe some of these guys will pick up under a new coach, but it looks pretty bleak. This is going around in circles. Brings us to the original point i was making: So if we get 4 to 5 starters from this draft would you still call it a failure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 This is going around in circles. Brings us to the original point i was making: Brings us back to my original point: Only if they are good. Starters at useless positions (Bohanon) don't mean much and guys starting even though they suck (Geno, Winters) don't mean much. Next year we could have 2014 draft picks starting at CB, WR and G that absolutely suck. Beating out Colon/Winters/Aboushi, Kerle/Graham or Walls/Williams does not indicate a good draft pick. If they let Coples walk Ik or Reilly could start by beating out the likes of Babin or Jermaine Cunningham. I get your point that we should wait and see, but merely starting is not enough. Amaro has to beat out Cumberland. Does that mean anything? I agree we are going in circles and I am also of the wait and see on the draft group. OTOH, Idzik constructed this roster to rely on the 2014 draft picks now and we can't rely on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Brings us back to my original point: Only if they are good. Starters at useless positions (Bohanon) don't mean much and guys starting even though they suck (Geno, Winters) don't mean much. Next year we could have 2014 draft picks starting at CB, WR and G that absolutely suck. Beating out Colon/Winters/Aboushi, Kerle/Graham or Walls/Williams does not indicate a good draft pick. If they let Coples walk Ik or Reilly could start by beating out the likes of Babin or Jermaine Cunningham. I get your point that we should wait and see, but merely starting is not enough. Amaro has to beat out Cumberland. Does that mean anything? I agree we are going in circles and I am also of the wait and see on the draft group. OTOH, Idzik constructed this roster to rely on the 2014 draft picks now and we can't rely on them. Thats what i am saying. Too early for me to start coming to the conclusion whether they are good or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Thats what i am saying. Too early for me to start coming to the conclusion whether they are good or not. I agree for the most part, but these guys were picked to make an impact for this year and they have failed miserably. These were not developmental picks, so I think we have every right to be a bit more down on them than judging a normal draft class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 OTOH, Idzik constructed this roster to rely on the 2014 I don't think it was Idzik's plan to build around a safety and a tight end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincenzo69 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Boo If you let Iddy stay and hire his coach and it fails and Woody then fires him, the next GM will prob want his HC. You have to fire IDDY now, he had a chance to fire Rex after 1st yr and pick his guy. No we have to give Idzik another 5 years to make lousy draft picks and be negligent in free agency to prove the point that Rex Ryan sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I don't think it was Idzik's plan to build around a safety and a tight end. That's what he did, though. When you take non-premium positions in premium spots, they need to be premium players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I don't think it was Idzik's plan to build around a safety and a tight end. Actually that is more my point. These guys were supposed to pay dividends now. They are not. Blahblahblah, coaching. Blahblahblah, player development. He didn't draft a punt returner/165 slot WR for the future. He didn't draft a 26 year old OLB to "develop" him. I am probably much less down on Pryor than the rest of the board, but I am not sold on Amaro and the rest has been a disaster. He aimed a shotgun and missed. It's supposed to have good spread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 That's what he did, though. When you take non-premium positions in premium spots, they need to be premium players. Amaro fit that bill. Probably still does. Pryor who knows. He sure does seem like he's been playing out of position all year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Amaro fit that bill. Probably still does. Pryor who knows. He sure does seem like he's been playing out of position all year. Amaro looks like a good TE. I don't see any evidence of greatness, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Actually that is more my point. These guys were supposed to pay dividends now. They are not. Blahblahblah, coaching. Blahblahblah, player development. He didn't draft a punt returner/165 slot WR for the future. He didn't draft a 26 year old OLB to "develop" him. I am probably much less down on Pryor than the rest of the board, but I am not sold on Amaro and the rest has been a disaster. He aimed a shotgun and missed. It's supposed to have good spread! I don't think you take a safety and/or TE that high if you plan on contending this year. You certainly don't sit on cap space if you think you're contending this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincenzo69 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Amaro fit that bill. Probably still does. Pryor who knows. He sure does seem like he's been playing out of position all year. I can't understand how passed on Clinton-dix for Pryor. Reason #10,055 why Idzik needs to be s-canned the Monday after the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincenzo69 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I don't think you take a safety and/or TE that high if you plan on contending this year. You certainly don't sit on cap space if you think you're contending this year. The plan is to contend in 2019 the year after Idzik is fired and we finished in last place 5 years in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I don't think you take a safety and/or TE that high if you plan on contending this year. You certainly don't sit on cap space if you think you're contending this year. I am not talking about contending. I am talking about useful players. He didn't pick them and he left roster space for them. Bad move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Amaro looks like a good TE. I don't see any evidence of greatness, though. Maybe. TE is such a quirky position with rookies. Especially with Amaro coming from an offense like that and the dumpster fire at QB this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 On the other hand, the draft is just a crapshoot anyway, so maybe Idzik is "due", and he'll make some good picks next time out. If the draft is such a crap shoot... why have certain teams year in and year out done better. There is luck and risk yes... but GOOD management teams eliminate more risk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I agree for the most part, but these guys were picked to make an impact for this year and they have failed miserably. These were not developmental picks, so I think we have every right to be a bit more down on them than judging a normal draft class. I am not sure where you got this information. I have no way to verify that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryK Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I don't think you take a safety and/or TE that high if you plan on contending this year. You certainly don't sit on cap space if you think you're contending this year. Well, I've seen at least 3 Manish Mehta articles that blame Idzik for our problems. That fact alone convinces me you're on the wrong side of this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sg3 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Well, I've seen at least 3 Manish Mehta articles that blame Idzik for our problems. That fact alone convinces me you're on the wrong side of this issue. Good point Maybe Woody should put that smelly little rodent in charge of the FO and coaching. Its obvious that this disgusting little turd is the guy that has all the solutions and will never make a mistake The truth The maggot doesn't know football from cricket or field hockey so, when he writes that the answet is YES, the correct answer is definitely NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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