afosomf Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 How do you know what temp the patriots lockeroom is at. 68 degrees- are you kidding me? A bunch of spoiled brat pro athletes that don't even carry luggage are going to have a lockerroom at 68? Maybe 68 degrees in August with the AC blasting. I understand that you guys think kraft is cheap, but this is crazy. And as far as a 2lb psi drop I can't get there even with a wet ball and a temp variation of 30 degrees, it only comes to 1.7 lbs. But as a Patriot fan I am just as likely to believe that the ball the colts had thier hands on showed more variation than the other 11.(according to PFT) The colts had possession of the ball for the period of time after the interception until it was given to the refs you can not eliminate the possibility that someone on the colts sideline deflated the ball even more to make the complaint more pronounced. so what happened to other 9 balls d1k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Necky, wake up and smell the coffee. All the evidence exonerates the Pats. Find something else to cry about while you watch the Pats play in yet another Super Bowl. You're like a chihuahua with attention deficit disorder. Not one piece of evidence (so far) exonerates the Pats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 How do you know what temp the patriots lockeroom is at. 68 degrees- are you kidding me? A bunch of spoiled brat pro athletes that don't even carry luggage are going to have a lockerroom at 68? Maybe 68 degrees in August with the AC blasting. I understand that you guys think kraft is cheap, but this is crazy. And as far as a 2lb psi drop I can't get there even with a wet ball and a temp variation of 30 degrees, it only comes to 1.7 lbs. But as a Patriot fan I am just as likely to believe that the ball the colts had thier hands on showed more variation than the other 11.(according to PFT) The colts had possession of the ball for the period of time after the interception until it was given to the refs you can not eliminate the possibility that someone on the colts sideline deflated the ball even more to make the complaint more pronounced. As to the first bolded quote, I don't know the temp. This is a fact we will have to wait for the investigative report to tell us. So, in the absence of real data I have to make what I consider to be a reasonable assumption. I think 68 deg is a good guess. And if you want to get a 2 psi deflation use a temp around 91 degrees. You think the Pats had their locker room set to 91? As for the second bolded quote, the reports I have seen have said all 12 of the Pats' balls were underinflated. Eleven balls were down 2 psi, the 12th ball was deflated by a lesser amount. So if the one outlier is the ball that was intercepted by the Colts, they would have had to added air to it, not deflated it more, to agree with the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Wilson treats the leather to repel water. The ball boy kept them dry with bags and towels. Were all 11 deflated Patriot balls used equally in the first half? This scientific witch hunt is going off into "LAPD murdered Nicole Brown" territory. That's good to know. That makes it even less likely that the rain had any effect. And BTW, all 12 Pat balls were underinflated. But only 11 of them were underinflated by 2 psi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I do not think absorption of water by the balls has been demonstrated. It is true the Headsmart lab did a test with the balls being wetted, but they did not report the result without wetting, so we don't really know what effect the water may have. There needs to be an experiment similar to the one reported by the Headsmart guys, but using a more realistic starting temp, like 68 deg, not the 75 deg outlandish temp that they used. But hey, you seem to be giving an explanation that implies the Pats cheated. I like it! No, I am giving an honest opinion. Just because I am a visiting patriot fan does not mean I want my posts thrown in my face a week or two in the future. And again, why you believe that 75 degrees in a pro lockerroom in Jan is unreasonable? You got guys climbing in and out of Whirlpools, showers, walking around with towels and you think these millionaires will be exposed to cold needlessly. Below is the link from headsmart saying that exposure to water resulted in an addtional .75 psi drop. and without being exposed to water 1.07 lbs. And when you ref the 50 degrees, remember that was the temp at game time 6:30, it was closer to 48 at halftime around 8PM when the balls were again measured. And if you want to be even more exact those little electric pumps run hot as hell and the temp of the air it is pumping out is elevated, but since the cots pump may be the same or even worse i ignored it as a factor. http://www.headsmartlabs.com/#in-the-news © Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 As to the first bolded quote, I don't know the temp. This is a fact we will have to wait for the investigative report to tell us. So, in the absence of real data I have to make what I consider to be a reasonable assumption. I think 68 deg is a good guess. And if you want to get a 2 psi deflation use a temp around 91 degrees. You think the Pats had their locker room set to 91? As for the second bolded quote, the reports I have seen have said all 12 of the Pats' balls were underinflated. Eleven balls were down 2 psi, the 12th ball was deflated by a lesser amount. So if the one outlier is the ball that was intercepted by the Colts, they would have had to added air to it, not deflated it more, to agree with the facts. everything I read was 11 out of 12 balls were under inflated. Mort reported that they were up to 2 lb low., the next day PFT reported that one ball was down 2 lbs and the others closer to 1lb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 You're like a chihuahua with attention deficit disorder. Not one piece of evidence (so far) exonerates the Pats. Are you a blind mute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 so what happened to other 9 balls d1k Gas laws, please see the link http://www.headsmartlabs.com/#in-the-news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 No, I am giving an honest opinion. Just because I am a visiting patriot fan does not mean I want my posts thrown in my face a week or two in the future. And again, why you believe that 75 degrees in a pro lockerroom in Jan is unreasonable? You got guys climbing in and out of Whirlpools, showers, walking around with towels and you think these millionaires will be exposed to cold needlessly. Below is the link from headsmart saying that exposure to water resulted in an addtional .75 psi drop. and without being exposed to water 1.07 lbs. And when you ref the 50 degrees, remember that was the temp at game time 6:30, it was closer to 48 at halftime around 8PM when the balls were again measured. And if you want to be even more exact those little electric pumps run hot as hell and the temp of the air it is pumping out is elevated, but since the cots pump may be the same or even worse i ignored it as a factor. http://www.headsmartlabs.com/#in-the-news © Well, we cannot know what the locker room temp was until it is reported. So we won't settle that point until then. I think the headsmart work is sloppy. They say they used the time of 2 hours and 26 min for initial cooling. But Peter King of MMQB has reported the usual procedure is to take the balls out to the field only a couple minutes before kickoff. More likely the total cooling time was the duration of the first half, about an hour and a half. And at that time, the outside temp was about 50 deg even according to Headsmart. Including the extra 2 hours and 26 minutes plus the 90 minutes of the first half would have exposed the balls to too much low temp in their test. So the actual footballs may not have even experienced the 1 psi drop that would be expected in dropping from 70 deg to 50 deg. And if the balls didn't have enough time to drop to the air temp, that would go a long way toward explaining why the Colts' balls did not drop out of the legal range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 All the evidence exonerates the Pats. Are you a blind mute? Where is your evidence? Do you even know the difference between exoneration by evidence and exoneration by omission of evidence? Didn't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 check this one out, it is very basic and pretty easy to follow for non chemistry types https://www.khanacademy.org/science...9Z/ideal-gas-laws/v/deflategate-ideal-gas-law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Well, we cannot know what the locker room temp was until it is reported. So we won't settle that point until then. I think the headsmart work is sloppy. They say they used the time of 2 hours and 26 min for initial cooling. But Peter King of MMQB has reported the usual procedure is to take the balls out to the field only a couple minutes before kickoff. More likely the total cooling time was the duration of the first half, about an hour and a half. And at that time, the outside temp was about 50 deg even according to Headsmart. Including the extra 2 hours and 26 minutes plus the 90 minutes of the first half would have exposed the balls to too much low temp in their test. So the actual footballs may not have even experienced the 1 psi drop that would be expected in dropping from 70 deg to 50 deg. And if the balls didn't have enough time to drop to the air temp, that would go a long way toward explaining why the Colts' balls did not drop out of the legal range. Even if you use 1 hour and 45 min till the time that they were remeasured again at the start of the 1/2. Are you saying that the balls would not have become acclimated to the ambinent temp in 1 1/2 hours, specially in light of the balls being wet with rain. come on, that is a stretch. That is like saying the refs wait until the last min to check the balls even though they were delivered 2 hours earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Necky, wake up and smell the coffee. All the evidence exonerates the Pats. Find something else to cry about while you watch the Pats play in yet another Super Bowl. What evidence exonerates? I'm busy moving all weekend I'm not even going have time to watch the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 check this one out, it is very basic and pretty easy to follow for non chemistry types https://www.khanacademy.org/science...9Z/ideal-gas-laws/v/deflategate-ideal-gas-law Don't know if you are directing this at me, but I am a physicist and can deal with the gas laws without extra guidance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Even if you use 1 hour and 45 min till the time that they were remeasured again at the start of the 1/2. Are you saying that the balls would not have become acclimated to the ambinent temp in 1 1/2 hours, specially in light of the balls being wet with rain. come on, that is a stretch. No i am not saying that. I am saying the headsmart work was sloppy, not only because of the 75 deg unsupported starting temp, but also because they overcooled the balls by the 2 hour 26 minutes the balls probably weren't even actually exposed to the cold air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Don't know if you are directing this at me, but I am a physicist and can deal with the gas laws without extra guidance. Pats fans need psychiatrists not physicists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Even if you use 1 hour and 45 min till the time that they were remeasured again at the start of the 1/2. Are you saying that the balls would not have become acclimated to the ambinent temp in 1 1/2 hours, specially in light of the balls being wet with rain. come on, that is a stretch. That is like saying the refs wait until the last min to check the balls even though they were delivered 2 hours earlier. And to this bolded point, the balls were almost certainly kept dry until they were put into play. So this is another sloppy point in the headsmart work. They wetted all of the balls. How about redoing the test with dry balls? And starting from 68 degrees? And to tell you the truth, i really don't know whether footballs stored in a bag for 90 min will have time to drop to the air temp. It would be nice to test that as well. Lots of unanswered questions here that I hope the Columbia physicist that has been hired by the league investigators actually tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Pats fans need psychiatrists not physicists. Oh, don't think for a moment I am doing this for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 99 No i am not saying that. I am saying the headsmart work was sloppy, not only because of the 75 deg unsupported starting temp, but also because they overcooled the balls by the 2 hour 26 minutes the balls probably weren't even actually exposed to the cold air. how do you get they overcooled the balls by 2 and 26 min. Maybe 1/2 hour at most and again that was without being exposed to water which will hasten the cooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Don't know if you are directing this at me, but I am a physicist and can deal with the gas laws without extra guidance. Then why are you insinuating that the pats deflated the football when the physics clearly show it? I thought i was talking with a creationist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 99 how do you get they overcooled the balls by 2 and 26 min. Maybe 1/2 hour at most and again that was without being exposed to water which will hasten the cooling. I got the 2 hour 26 min from headsmart's full technical report, which I downloaded from the website from your link. They should have cooled only for the 90 min of the first half, but they cooled for 2 hr 26 min plus 90 min. After the 90 min they should have reported the dry ball result. After that they could redo the test wetting the balls during the 90 min cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Then why are you insinuating that the pats deflated the football when the physics clearly show it? I thought i was talking with a creationist. The physics is strongly suggestive that the only reasonable explanation is that the balls were manually deflated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Oh Jesus Christ, the Patriots obviously did this. The arguing is stupid. Patriot fans should be positioned behind 1.) the NFL won't be able to prove it, or 2.) the NFL won't be willing to prove it. Period. Any reasonable, unbiased halfwit can tell you they did it. Look at the body language of Brady and Belichick when they've spoken about it. Listen to the things they are saying to posture and create plausible deniability. Patriots fans should be defending their team. That is a given. Respectable Patriots fans should be defending their team by saying they are too ******* smart to have left themselves open to being caught. The arguing that they didn't do it is just ridiculous and delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 The physics is strongly suggestive that the only reasonable explanation is that the balls were manually deflated. Please walk me thru it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I got the 2 hour 26 min from headsmart's full technical report, which I downloaded from the website from your link. They should have cooled only for the 90 min of the first half, but they cooled for 2 hr 26 min plus 90 min. After the 90 min they should have reported the dry ball result. After that they could redo the test wetting the balls during the 90 min cooldown. no read the pdf in the link. it is too much to cut and paste During testing, twelve brand new footballs were inflated to 12.5 PSI in a 75 degree Fahrenheit room. This was to imitate the indoor conditions where the referees would have tested the footballs 2 hours and 15 minutes before kickoff. The footballs were then moved to a 50 degree Fahrenheit environment to simulate the temperatures that were experienced throughout the game. In addition, the footballs were dampened to replicate the rainy conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Oh Jesus Christ, the Patriots obviously did this. The arguing is stupid. Patriot fans should be positioned behind 1.) the NFL won't be able to prove it, or 2.) the NFL won't be willing to prove it. Period. Any reasonable, unbiased halfwit can tell you they did it. Look at the body language of Brady and Belichick when they've spoken about it. Listen to the things they are saying to posture and create plausible deniability. Patriots fans should be defending their team. That is a given. Respectable Patriots fans should be defending their team by saying they are too ******* smart to have left themselves open to being caught. The arguing that they didn't do it is just ridiculous and delusional. Look at the physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets1958 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Look at the physics. Stick to your day job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Look at the physics. Look at the backside of my nutsack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets1958 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Just a random thought.... Why - for what sane reason, would a Patsie fan spend time on a NYJ discussion board less than 24 hrs before their team will appear in a Super Bowl? There must be a psychiatric diagnosis for that behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 And to this bolded point, the balls were almost certainly kept dry until they were put into play. So this is another sloppy point in the headsmart work. They wetted all of the balls. How about redoing the test with dry balls? And starting from 68 degrees? And to tell you the truth, i really don't know whether footballs stored in a bag for 90 min will have time to drop to the air temp. It would be nice to test that as well. Lots of unanswered questions here that I hope the Columbia physicist that has been hired by the league investigators actually tests. you can tell that when the ball boy gets the ball from the ref and goes to the sideline there is a large blue bag that is wide open and the kid just throws the ball inside it, the bag is open to the elements he gets another ball and dries it with the towel he is holding. They are not zipping and unziping the bag every 5 min. when Brady or the refs want another dry ball. your throwing wet balls in and exposing the contents to rain, The balls don't have to be fulls submersed to exhibit evaporative cooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberjet Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 LIMMB Syndrome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcJet Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Look at the backside of my nutsack. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Just a random thought.... Why - for what sane reason, would a Patsie fan spend time on a NYJ discussion board less than 24 hrs before their team will appear in a Super Bowl? There must be a psychiatric diagnosis for that behavior. Because there are 4 more patriot fans over my shoulder laughing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets1958 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Because there are 4 more patriot fans over my shoulder laughing Hmmm. in-breeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indygirl4jets Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 What you have to consider is that the Colts may very well have inflated the balls in the visitors equipment room outside of the visitors locker room, that area or the hallway leading outside is not heated and If they filled the balls to closer to the upper limit (like rogers and others prefer) they would be no psi drop associated with temp change. Now they still would be a PSI drop associated with the volume increase of the ball due to the leather swelling as it absorbs the water/rain but that swelling would only account for a .4-.7 psi drop, not enough to bring the colt balls under the 12.5 min. You may also want to consider getting some counseling for your delusional thoughts and beliefs. Come on! Really!!!! Jeez, they cheated and I cant wait to see them fumble the ball more times tomorrow than they did all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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