Deflate-Gate \ Patriots Cheating Again Thread: MERGED

[vincenzo69]

 

 

He should be suspended for 2015 and his HOF induction should never occur.

Good luck with that.

[jetrider]

Many of the footballs used in the AFC title game, which all have Walt Anderson's initials on them, were returned to circulation among the rest of the Patriots game-day footballs. Because Anderson was the referee for two other Patriots games this season, there are more than 30 footballs with his initials in the team's possession.

 

 

This is what I've been getting at from the start; there is no way for refs to keep track of NE's game balls. Brady even said they prepared 12 backup balls in his first presser.

 

It's too easy to skirt the rules. The balls submitted for testing before and after the game are kept in bag "A". The balls Brady actually uses are from bag "B". Simple.

 

It's like Deluxe Magic for Beginners. Nobody knows because nobody is looking.

[UnitedWhofans]

Jeff Wiltgen ‏@JeffWiltgen  23m23 minutes ago

NFL denies NBC request to film officials checking game balls.

 

 

The NFL really sucks at this HR thing...

[Gen X Jet]

I'm shocked that the NBC guys are suspicious.  Brady looked like a weasel in the Costas interview.

[Larz]

 

Jeff Wiltgen ‏@JeffWiltgen  23m23 minutes ago

NFL denies NBC request to film officials checking game balls.

 

 

The NFL really sucks at this HR thing...

 

 

that's weird, do they have something to hide ?

[Jets1958]

that's weird, do they have something to hide ?

 

HA HA.  The NFL is so great at PR.  Incredible!

[UnitedWhofans]

that's weird, do they have something to hide ?

It's amazing. They are making the situation worse. Exactly what happened when Goodell destroyed the tapes. 

If there's nothing to hide, show it to us. 

[Patriot Killa]

The PSI of the footballs used in the AFC Championship Game two weeks ago helped fuel the conversation leading up to today’s Super Bowl between the Patriots and Seahawks. In short, there’s been a lot written about the situation and if you’re a sports fan let’s assume you’re fairly aware of what’s been going on. Even so, it doesn’t sound like we’ll get an official answer into whether or not the Patriots intentionally deflated the balls during their game with the Colts for a couple of weeks while Ted Wells completes his investigation.

NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport filed an update on the situation earlier Sunday. Rapoport confirms that someone, whom he describes as “elderly” took two bags of balls into a bathroom at Gillette Stadium for 98 seconds. There’s also this new nugget in the report, which if true, adds a wrinkle to everything the sport’s world has talked about over the last two weeks.

Won't let me paste link..... it's off biglead.com

[patman]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000466783/article/more-details-on-the-investigation-of-patriots-deflated-footballs

 

We all know about the balls and the bathroom, it was reported as the ball boy earlier but now it is an old man. So the only wrinkle it adds is the wrinkles that are on his face.

 

Rappaport all mentions that there is only one ball that was 2lbs under, not all 11 balls the other ten were just "ticks under 12.5"

 

And it appears that the only ball that was less inflated was the ball that the colts, turned in and that DeQuell Jackson said he did not notice anything wrong with when he handed it over.  

[patman]

As to the first bolded quote, I don't know the temp. This is a fact we will have to wait for the investigative report to tell us. So, in the absence of real data I have to make what I consider to be a reasonable assumption. I think 68 deg is a good guess. And if you want to get a 2 psi deflation use a temp around 91 degrees. You think the Pats had their locker room set to 91?

 

As for the second bolded quote, the reports I have seen have said all 12 of the Pats' balls were underinflated. Eleven balls were down 2 psi, the 12th ball was deflated by a lesser amount. So if the one outlier is the ball that was intercepted by the Colts, they would have had to added air to it, not deflated it more, to agree with the facts.

per rapaport only one ball was down 2lbs, the other just ticks under the min. And since the colts had that ball in thier hands for 15 min, I think that clouds that. Watching ESPN again I guess.

[Jet Fan RI]

per rapaport only one ball was down 2lbs, the other just ticks under the min. And since the colts had that ball in thier hands for 15 min, I think that clouds that. Watching ESPN again I guess.

 

The fix may be in. For many days we had 2 psi down on 11 balls. Now suddenly the story changes to just under the legal 12.5 psi for the majority of balls? That would conflict with the 1 psi deflation that should have occurred just for dropping from 70 psi  deg to 50 psi deg, and even you expressed certainty that the balls reached equilibrium during the 1st half. You even seemed pretty confident the balls started at a higher temp than 70 deg, which would have produced an even greater than 1 psi natural pressure drop. Changing your mind now?

 

As someone better than either of us wrote, something is rotten in Denmark. Also in Foxboro, if I might add. 

 

EDIT: Corrected psi to deg.

[kelticwizard]

Some Pats fan told me on YouTube a couple of days ago it was only 5 balls under, and only 1 ball 2 lbs under.  Maybe it was Rapoport's report he was referring to.

 

I think in these matters, the NFL takes its cues from professional wrestling.  Just talk and pretend that everything you are doing is on the up and up, and enough people will keep coming back despite what their eyes tell them.

[SoFlaJets]

and of course with the shortage of footballs and the high cost per each one the "evidence" will already be gone so no one will be able to re-check them, so as my fellow Jets fan from The Ocean State says that "The fix may be in" I tend to agree with one small exception I think it IS in, not MAY be in....

[patman]

The fix may be in. For many days we had 2 psi down on 11 balls. Now suddenly the story changes to just under the legal 12.5 psi for the majority of balls? That would conflict with the 1 psi deflation that should have occurred just for dropping from 70 psi  deg to 50 psi deg, and even you expressed certainty that the balls reached equilibrium during the 1st half. You even seemed pretty confident the balls started at a higher temp than 70 deg, which would have produced an even greater than 1 psi natural pressure drop. Changing your mind now?

 

As someone better than either of us wrote, something is rotten in Denmark. Also in Foxboro, if I might add. 

 

EDIT: Corrected psi to deg.

 

No , i am not changing my mind at all. We do not know what PSI the ref put in the balls, he has no record of it. And while Mort reported 11 balls were down 2 psi:  PFT reported only one ball was down 2 psi and the others were down closer to 1 lb.You chose to believe the Mort report.  BB said that the equipment guys asks the ref to fill it to 12.5 psi , I assumed that the ref followed the league guidelines and allowed the ball to be filled according to the QB preferences. Maybe he did not an filled them to 13.5 or somewhere in between.

 

I laid out a case to what I believed was at least plausible. I assumed that the refs checked the balls when they got them right from the locker room in their office.  Maybe they waited until 1/2 hour before game time? No one knows but the refs what happened, all I did was lay out a scenario where the balls could go down about 1.8-1.9 lbs. Maybe the balls were damp from being in a lockeroom? There were a myriad of contributing factors that most fans and media just chose to ignore in order to paint the pats in the most unfavorable light. 

[patman]

Some Pats fan told me on YouTube a couple of days ago it was only 5 balls under, and only 1 ball 2 lbs under.  Maybe it was Rapoport's report he was referring to.

 

I think in these matters, the NFL takes its cues from professional wrestling.  Just talk and pretend that everything you are doing is on the up and up, and enough people will keep coming back despite what their eyes tell them.

Now, why is Mort word gold, over the other guys report? Why did Mort report it that way. It was his chance at a big story that he got and not Schaffer for once. He would not do or say anything to minimize the story.

[Warfish]

Any "reporting" at this stage is nothing more than NFL leaking to folks as part of the now-inevitable cover-up and under-rugging the NFL will engage in.

 

There is simply no world where the NFL is going to legitimately investigate, punish and suspend, the two guys who just won the Super Bowl and stand as the GOAT QB and Head Coach.

 

It's just not going to happen.  No business would do that.

 

So expect no shortage of leaks and "inside sources" claiming it wasn;t really X balls, it was one, it wasn't really 2 pounds under, it was 1 ounce, the ballboy didn;t have enough time and never spoke in his entire life with Brady, it's all just hype, lets move on to the PARADE!!!!  Yay!

 

WWF in action.  This storyline was clearly a successful one for the NFL, and now they'll write another one.

[patman]

and of course with the shortage of footballs and the high cost per each one the "evidence" will already be gone so no one will be able to re-check them, so as my fellow Jets fan from The Ocean State says that "The fix may be in" I tend to agree with one small exception I think it IS in, not MAY be in....

What evidence? The refs re-filled the balls up at 1/2 time. What do you think that there is an internal recorder in the football that records all the past psi events?  There are 5 refs in that office, do you think Kensil the ex jet who hates the pats would doctor the evidence and why was he on the Colts sideline to begin with? You got Kensil, Grigson (lost both SB with the rams and eagles to the pats) and Pagamo who got his ass handed to him 3 times in a row by the pats and is the friend of Harbaugh who was told by Brady to read the rule book and embarrassed on national TV after saying himself that the pats were deceitful and used illegal formations and then had to apologize. and now all of a sudden just the one ball that they had in their hands is much less filled than any other and a ball that thier own player said felt no different to him after he held if for a few min before he gave it to the teams equipment manager for safekeeping.  See everyone can wear a tinfoil hat.

[patman]

Any "reporting" at this stage is nothing more than NFL leaking to folks as part of the now-inevitable cover-up and under-rugging the NFL will engage in.

 

There is simply no world where the NFL is going to legitimately investigate, punish and suspend, the two guys who just won the Super Bowl and stand as the GOAT QB and Head Coach.

 

It's just not going to happen.  No business would do that.

 

So expect no shortage of leaks and "inside sources" claiming it wasn;t really X balls, it was one, it wasn't really 2 pounds under, it was 1 ounce, the ballboy didn;t have enough time and never spoke in his entire life with Brady, it's all just hype, lets move on to the PARADE!!!!  Yay!

 

WWF in action.  This storyline was clearly a successful one for the NFL, and now they'll write another one.

They did it during "Spygate"

[Jets1958]

Any "reporting" at this stage is nothing more than NFL leaking to folks as part of the now-inevitable cover-up and under-rugging the NFL will engage in.

 

There is simply no world where the NFL is going to legitimately investigate, punish and suspend, the two guys who just won the Super Bowl and stand as the GOAT QB and Head Coach.

 

It's just not going to happen.  No business would do that.

 

So expect no shortage of leaks and "inside sources" claiming it wasn;t really X balls, it was one, it wasn't really 2 pounds under, it was 1 ounce, the ballboy didn;t have enough time and never spoke in his entire life with Brady, it's all just hype, lets move on to the PARADE!!!!  Yay!

 

WWF in action.  This storyline was clearly a successful one for the NFL, and now they'll write another one.

 

It is a amazing commentary on what the NFL has become.  If anyone still was holding out and believing this was sport and not entertainment - I hope your eyes are now wide open.  WWF Football style.

[Warfish]

Gotta love the NFL Deflection Machine at work.

 

Josh Gordon, chucklehead no doubt, gets a year long ban.....for alcohol.

 

smh

 

The NFL will let wife beaters play unless there is video, cheater cheat as long as they win the Super Bowl, but smoke a doobie or drink some alcohol or take the wrong suppliment, and you're gone.

 

WWF in action.

 

I sure hope they write a Super Bowl Victory for the Jets next TV Season.  The ratings for that storyline would be great!

[Jet Fan RI]

Now, why is Mort word gold, over the other guys report? Why did Mort report it that way. It was his chance at a big story that he got and not Schaffer for once. He would not do or say anything to minimize the story.

 

It was actually a Jay Glazer tweet that I saw, and he did not attribute Mortensen. So we had at least 2 reports of 2 psi deflation in 11 balls that stood for several days until the leak from the revisionist "investigation" that suddenly changes it to only 1 ball down by 2 psi. If the Columbia U physicist hired by the investigators does not do actual testing of balls, along the lines of what headsmart did but actually doing the job right instead, then I'll know the fix really is in.

[JetsFanInDenver]

The fix is in.

 

Won't be surprised if Pats get away with it with a slap on the wrist or ZERO punishment and all this is announced during the off season when people are not dialed into things pertaining to football and that too in the Friday late afternoon/evening news cycle when people are usually don't pay much attention to news.

[Jet Fan RI]

What evidence? The refs re-filled the balls up at 1/2 time. What do you think that there is an internal recorder in the football that records all the past psi events?  There are 5 refs in that office, do you think Kensil the ex jet who hates the pats would doctor the evidence and why was he on the Colts sideline to begin with? You got Kensil, Grigson (lost both SB with the rams and eagles to the pats) and Pagamo who got his ass handed to him 3 times in a row by the pats and is the friend of Harbaugh who was told by Brady to read the rule book and embarrassed on national TV after saying himself that the pats were deceitful and used illegal formations and then had to apologize. and now all of a sudden just the one ball that they had in their hands is much less filled than any other and a ball that thier own player said felt no different to him after he held if for a few min before he gave it to the teams equipment manager for safekeeping.  See everyone can wear a tinfoil hat.

 

The only actual evidence of ball deflation would be the testimony of the officials who did the testing. Apparently right after the game, their memory was that 11 balls were 2 psi under. Weeks later, it appears they now "recall" that only 1 ball was 2 psi under. This "investigation" is starting to look like a sham.

[patman]

The only actual evidence of ball deflation would be the testimony of the officials who did the testing. Apparently right after the game, their memory was that 11 balls were 2 psi under. Weeks later, it appears they now "recall" that only 1 ball was 2 psi under. This "investigation" is starting to look like a sham.

I am not trying to be a dick, but I never read or even heard on the radio regarding anything attributed to the refs except for that they were checked before the game and were in compliance and when they checked before the 1/2 they were not. If you could find that statement attributed to a ref, I would love to read it. 

 

And please, the only reason that you heard about the investigation is that Grigson leaked it to the Indy Star reporter. The league would have given the balls to Columbia or MIT or whatever and had an answer within 3 days. The only sham thing about this investigation is that it is taking so long.  I know you took exception to what you feel was some sloopy lab techniques that Headsmart used, but they were able to get a conclusion in  24 hours. Why is Columbia taking so long when both me and you agree that a deflation of 1 lb (at the least by me and the max by you) was calculated in a matter of hours. The league is trying to show the world that they are turning over every rock  to make up for the shoddy investigative work in the Ray rice case.

[PatsFanTX]

The fix is in.

 

Won't be surprised if Pats get away with it with a slap on the wrist or ZERO punishment and all this is announced during the off season when people are not dialed into things pertaining to football and that too in the Friday late afternoon/evening news cycle when people are usually don't pay much attention to news.

 

 

Will you guys be watching the Super Bowl victory parade this morning?

[Beerfish]

Will you guys be watching the Super Bowl victory parade this morning?

Defalted tires work better in the snow so I would expect the resident ball boy to be making the rounds of the vehicles and floats early this am.

[Jet Fan RI]

I am not trying to be a dick, but I never read or even heard on the radio regarding anything attributed to the refs except for that they were checked before the game and were in compliance and when they checked before the 1/2 they were not. If you could find that statement attributed to a ref, I would love to read it. 

 

And please, the only reason that you heard about the investigation is that Grigson leaked it to the Indy Star reporter. The league would have given the balls to Columbia or MIT or whatever and had an answer within 3 days. The only sham thing about this investigation is that it is taking so long.  I know you took exception to what you feel was some sloopy lab techniques that Headsmart used, but they were able to get a conclusion in  24 hours. Why is Columbia taking so long when both me and you agree that a deflation of 1 lb (at the least by me and the max by you) was calculated in a matter of hours. The league is trying to show the world that they are turning over every rock  to make up for the shoddy investigative work in the Ray rice case.

 

Since the refs did the testing and there is no written record, what else could have been the source of the pressure results other than verbal statements made by the refs?

[patman]

The fix is in.

 

Won't be surprised if Pats get away with it with a slap on the wrist or ZERO punishment and all this is announced during the off season when people are not dialed into things pertaining to football and that too in the Friday late afternoon/evening news cycle when people are usually don't pay much attention to news.

The pats should be exonerated and get an apology from the league regarding the leaks form the league office, not an apology for the investigation but just for the leaks. By any stretch of impartiallity, you can not use the ball that the accusing team has had in their possession without a very jaundiced eye. If all the other 11 balls are within 1lb there should be no doubt from anyone that it can be attributed to game conditions.  Specially now that is is known that the refs were told by Grigson/Pagamo to check the balls during the game. The colts could now very well inflated their balls in a cold condition knowing that when thier balls were also checked no deflation would appear except due to evaporative cooling.  

[JetsFanInDenver]

Will you guys be watching the Super Bowl victory parade this morning?

 

Unlike some people who love spending year's and year's obsessing about the rival team, posting on rival team's forums and so on,  some of us really aren't obsessed about  the rival team.

[patman]

Since the refs did the testing and there is no written record, what else could have been the source of the pressure results other than verbal statements made by the refs?

Agreed, but I never heard anything attributed to the refs other than pass/fail, Nothing about the actual pressure but that 11 of 12 balls were 2lbs under by Mort and that 1 ball was two pounds under and the rest were less than 1 lb by PFT.   You are choosing to accept the Mort Report as what the refs told the league, I am choosing to believe what Rappaport and PFT understood what the refs reported. 

[PatriotReign37]

Will you guys be watching the Super Bowl victory parade this morning?

Brady will get up and announce that he needs another ring.

if Brady gets 5 he is hands down the best NFL QB there ever was.

[The Crusher]

Brady will get up and announce that he needs another ring.

if Brady gets 5 he is hands down the best cheating NFL QB there ever was.

I would like to argue but when you are right you are right.

[patman]

Unlike some people who love spending year's and year's obsessing about the rival team, posting on rival team's forums and so on,  some of us really aren't obsessed about  the rival team.

I don't obsess about the jets, I rather discuss football with fans of an opposing viewpoint than my own. 

[Jet Fan RI]

Agreed, but I never heard anything attributed to the refs other than pass/fail, Nothing about the actual pressure but that 11 of 12 balls were 2lbs under by Mort and that 1 ball was two pounds under and the rest were less than 1 lb by PFT.   You are choosing to accept the Mort Report as what the refs told the league, I am choosing to believe what Rappaport and PFT understood what the refs reported. 

 

You are ignoring for some reason my statement that I learned about the 2 psi deflation in 11 balls from a Jay Glazer tweet, not from Mortensen. And Glazer did not attribute Mortensen in his tweet. So it appears there are really two independent reports (at least) of the fact of 2 psi deflation in 11 balls. And the only possible original source of that fact can be statements by the officials.

[PatriotReign37]

I would like to argue but when you are right you are right.

Churchs Chicken > The Colonel