Why are people so high on Mariota?

[heymangold]

I don't see how you can say that unless you're talking about who was the more effective runner. Even with that I think that may not be such an amazing stat for Mariota just because it shows that he's less of a pass first guy. Geno lived in the pocket at WVU he only ran when he absolutely needed to. Passing numbers are pretty much the same, I can say without a doubt in my mind Geno made way more NFL throws than Mariota did because his wide receivers weren't as wide open as Mariota's. I really don't see a big enough difference between Geno and Mariota that would entice me to spend the 6th overall pick on him, I mean I'm no GM or Scout, but as far as I can see I view Geno and Mariota as 1A 1B.

 

go check the stats because Mariota's passing numbers are almost even with Geno's, and Mariota did it in only 3 years.  Geno had great players on that squad, Austin/Bailey/Sims, etc.  Mariota doesnt.

[heymangold]

The comparisons between Geno and Mariota are actually pretty valid. Mariota is a better athlete but Geno might actually be a better passer.

Neither one played in anything resembling a pro style offense in college but for some reason people think Mariota will just learn by watching Matt Moore.

 

so he won't learn by being a backup for a year, watching a relatively competent QB who's had NFL success play in front of him?  by all accounts Mariota is a very bright kid and a very hard worker.  other then the system he was in, i don't get all the hate for the kid.

[Morrissey]

Jeremiah just mocked Mariota tenth to the Rams. Watching these draftniks slink away from this player is almost Jimmy Clausen-like.

That's an outlier, 9 out of 10 mocks in the last 2 weeks has him going 6th to us.

[Morrissey]

Oregon has a system, but just because they didn't ask him to make too many throws from under center and or in the pocket doesn't mean he can't do it. He actually looked pretty good doing in at the combine (obviously nothing substitutes doing it in a game) but he's a very bright kid. The Jets need to to their due diligence. They need to study him good, go to his pro day, work him out privately, all that jazz. Because if they have a chance to take him and they pass and he becomes as good or better than say Russell Wilson, we'll be looking for a new GM again soon after.

[Sully28]

Really Tavon Austin and Bailey weren't always wide open?

Nope, of course on little screen passes they were but most passing plays both Stedman and Tavon were covered to a certain extent. When they were open it was usually on deep balls and deep balls can be tough to deliver accuracy no matter how open the WR is. Though never have I seen wide receivers as open as they were in Oregon's offense.

[Sully28]

go check the stats because Mariota's passing numbers are almost even with Geno's, and Mariota did it in only 3 years. Geno had great players on that squad, Austin/Bailey/Sims, etc. Mariota doesnt.

They are almost even, the main difference is Geno's freshman year, (I mean come on Sophmore, Junior, and Senior are practically identical.) But yes Geno did have some great players, although I'll stop you at Tavon and Stedman, because Sims transferred here when Geno was in the NFL. The same could be said about Mariota though,I mean are we just going to pretend like Lamichael James and Deanthony Thomas never played for Oregon? Difference between WVU and Oregon offense was that when Geno was here it was all Geno, Stedman, and Tavon (the passing game). Oregon had a lethal rushing attack with LaMichael James and Deanthony Thomas, which really helped Mariota out considering a lot of teams couldn't stop the run and the passing game at the same time. Say what you will about Geno, but let's not try and act like Mariota is head and shoulders above him as a football player.

[FidelioJet]

That's an outlier, 9 out of 10 mocks in the last 2 weeks has him going 6th to us.

Let's hope that's the case.  The people that don't want Mariotta - I'm kinda unsure of what they want to do with the QB position.  What QB is going to help the Jets win a Super Bowl?  When do we find this guy?

 

If there's a QB on the board with an immense about of natural talent and said to have ALL the intangibles...and the knock against him is he didn't play in a pro style offense (which of course he wasn't asked to do) I'm just not sure how you aren't jumping for joy at prospect of getting him.

 

He may end up failing but you keep taking QB's until you find one - Like it or not that's todays NFL.

[FidelioJet]

They are almost even, the main difference is Geno's freshman year, (I mean come on Sophmore, Junior, and Senior are practically identical.) But yes Geno did have some great players, although I'll stop you at Tavon and Stedman, because Sims transferred here when Geno was in the NFL. The same could be said about Mariota though,I mean are we just going to pretend like Lamichael James and Deanthony Thomas never played for Oregon? Difference between WVU and Oregon offense was that when Geno was here it was all Geno, Stedman, and Tavon (the passing game). Oregon had a lethal rushing attack with LaMichael James and Deanthony Thomas, which really helped Mariota out considering a lot of teams couldn't stop the run and the passing game at the same time. Say what you will about Geno, but let's not try and act like Mariota is head and shoulders above him as a football player.

 

Comparing stats between Geno to Mariotta doesn't tell us anything.   There is such an immense difference in their individual skill sets and the way they play the game - any stat in irrelevant.

[Sully28]

Comparing stats between Geno to Mariotta doesn't tell us anything. There is such an immense difference in their individual skill sets and the way they play the game - any stat in irrelevant.

What are these differences?

[T0mShane]

Just listened to Greg Cosell on Mariota. Pretty interesting stuff, kinda.

--He thinks Mariota's arm is stronger than he's shown, and that his mechanics (short arming) are a little screwy because the ball has to come out so fast in that offense.

--Cosell, like most, doesn't think that the running aspect for a QB is sustainable on the pro level.

--While discounting the offense he ran at Oregon almost entirely, he thinks that there's a lot to work with with Mariota, but you won't know what he is until you get him into your program.

--Dismissed Russell Wilson comparison because Wilson is a very good passer, something that he "doesn't get enough credit for."

Bottom line: I'm letting someone else take that chance

[JetBlue]

Just listened to Greg Cosell on Mariota. Pretty interesting stuff, kinda.

--He thinks Mariota's arm is stronger than he's shown, and that his mechanics (short arming) are a little screwy because the ball has to come out so fast in that offense.

--Cosell, like most, doesn't think that the running aspect for a QB is sustainable on the pro level.

--While discounting the offense he ran at Oregon almost entirely, he thinks that there's a lot to work with with Mariota, but you won't know what he is until you get him into your program.

--Dismissed Russell Wilson comparison because Wilson is a very good passer, something that he "doesn't get enough credit for."

Bottom line: I'm letting someone else take that chance

That is why it would almost be better if he is drafted before us because if we pass and he becomes a star, we will never hear the end of it.  If we take him and he busts or is only average, that will set us back because could have drafted an immediate impact player.   The most interesting scenario is if he is there and we do work out a trade with say Cleveland or Philly.  We just better not miss on whomever we take with those picks.... 

[artemusclyde]

They are almost even, the main difference is Geno's freshman year, (I mean come on Sophmore, Junior, and Senior are practically identical.) But yes Geno did have some great players, although I'll stop you at Tavon and Stedman, because Sims transferred here when Geno was in the NFL. The same could be said about Mariota though,I mean are we just going to pretend like Lamichael James and Deanthony Thomas never played for Oregon? Difference between WVU and Oregon offense was that when Geno was here it was all Geno, Stedman, and Tavon (the passing game). Oregon had a lethal rushing attack with LaMichael James and Deanthony Thomas, which really helped Mariota out considering a lot of teams couldn't stop the run and the passing game at the same time. Say what you will about Geno, but let's not try and act like Mariota is head and shoulders above him as a football player.

 

Better runner, makes more reads then Geno did who would just lock on to one read and pass it to Bailey or Austin. Quicker throwing motion, doesn't sh*t the bed against pressure, played behind an anemic offensive line.

[artemusclyde]

Just listened to Greg Cosell on Mariota. Pretty interesting stuff, kinda.

--He thinks Mariota's arm is stronger than he's shown, and that his mechanics (short arming) are a little screwy because the ball has to come out so fast in that offense.

--Cosell, like most, doesn't think that the running aspect for a QB is sustainable on the pro level.

--While discounting the offense he ran at Oregon almost entirely, he thinks that there's a lot to work with with Mariota, but you won't know what he is until you get him into your program.

--Dismissed Russell Wilson comparison because Wilson is a very good passer, something that he "doesn't get enough credit for."

Bottom line: I'm letting someone else take that chance

 

That is why it would almost be better if he is drafted before us because if we pass and he becomes a star, we will never hear the end of it.  If we take him and he busts or is only average, that will set us back because could have drafted an immediate impact player.   The most interesting scenario is if he is there and we do work out a trade with say Cleveland or Philly.  We just better not miss on whomever we take with those picks.... 

 

Rams got a sh*t load of picks for the RG3 trade. Funny thing is, despite many people calling RG3 a bust, he carried that team to the playoffs while the Rams have been bottom feeders who have done nothing. We passed on Carr and Bridgewater (instead drafting Calvin Pryor who looks like sh*t) last year because the team was scared to take a chance and look at the Raiders and Vikings now. Things are looking up for them because they have a good young signal caller. Playing it safe and passing on a qb cause your afraid he might bust and waiting for the next Andrew Luck is frankly speaking retarded. Your going to be waiting a long time for that guy to come around and you probably won't even have the top pick of the draft to get him. It's like you guys enjoy mediocrity and are content with having 8-8 seasons and missing the playoffs.

[T0mShane]

Rams got a sh*t load of picks for the RG3 trade. Funny thing is, despite many people calling RG3 a bust, he carried that team to the playoffs while the Rams have been bottom feeders who have done nothing. We passed on Carr and Bridgewater (instead drafting Calvin Pryor who looks like sh*t) last year because the team was scared to take a chance and look at the Raiders and Vikings now. Things are looking up for them because they have a good young signal caller. Playing it safe and passing on a qb cause your afraid he might bust and waiting for the next Andrew Luck is frankly speaking retarded. Your going to be waiting a long time for that guy to come around and you probably won't even have the top pick of the draft to get him. It's like you guys enjoy mediocrity and are content with having 8-8 seasons and missing the playoffs.

Mariota is an inaccurate passer with a marginal arm whose one great asset--his legs--are nearly worthless on the pro level. You don't draft a QB and teach him how to throw properly. It never works, ever.

[JetBlue]

Rams got a sh*t load of picks for the RG3 trade. Funny thing is, despite many people calling RG3 a bust, he carried that team to the playoffs while the Rams have been bottom feeders who have done nothing. We passed on Carr and Bridgewater (instead drafting Calvin Pryor who looks like sh*t) last year because the team was scared to take a chance and look at the Raiders and Vikings now. Things are looking up for them because they have a good young signal caller. Playing it safe and passing on a qb cause your afraid he might bust and waiting for the next Andrew Luck is frankly speaking retarded. Your going to be waiting a long time for that guy to come around and you probably won't even have the top pick of the draft to get him. It's like you guys enjoy mediocrity and are content with having 8-8 seasons and missing the playoffs.

 

First of all we passed on Carr and Bridgewater because we had just drafted a QB the previous year who showed promise and they thought could develop into a franchise qb.   Not because they were afraid of anything so that point is just plain stupid.   Secondly if RGIII was in this draft he would probably be going #1.  Mariota is almost as raw as Smith was coming out when it comes to NFL offense and this year there are several true blue chip prospects who will also be available at 6.   In fact he probably won't even see the field his first year and there is no guarantee he see it the second year.   It is not playing it safe, if you can get a boat load of picks for a guy who has never played one snap of his college career under center.   With one of those picks you could still take a qb like Hundley.  

 

By the way, Carr and Bridgewater, while promising, are far from sure things.  In fact both those teams are in the same boat as the Jets were last year; they both have 1st year qbs that they are high on and what to develop.  What the Jets should have done last year was get their 1st qb more weapons, which is exactly what the Raiders and Vikings will be doing this year. 

 

Lastly, it is possible to make your points with out resorting to insults, especially when you make straw man arguments (who said anything about waiting for the next Andrew Luck?).    

[JetBlue]

Mariota is an inaccurate passer with a marginal arm whose one great asset--his legs--are nearly worthless on the pro level. You don't draft a QB and teach him how to throw properly. It never works, ever.

I am more concerned about him not playing under center since high school; havn't we learned anything from drafting Geno Smith?  It is going to take at least a year or maybe two before this guy is ready to face NFL defenses. 

[#27TheDominator]

Mariota is an inaccurate passer with a marginal arm whose one great asset--his legs--are nearly worthless on the pro level. You don't draft a QB and teach him how to throw properly. It never works, ever.

 

 

Isn't that supposedly what they did with Rodgers?  I tend to think it is way overstated, but there were plenty of claims that they had to change his delivery.

[dcJet]

Mariota would be the QB best prospect we've had in here since forever.

 

He's already is smarter than Geno and he already throws a better screen pass than Sanchez.

[T0mShane]

Isn't that supposedly what they did with Rodgers? I tend to think it is way overstated, but there were plenty of claims that they had to change his delivery.

If Mariota had Rodgers' arm, I'd be all for it, and if you told me that Mariota was going to sit for three years, I'd be all for that, too. I think arm strength can be a bit overrated, but Mariota is a lousy passer overall. I don't think you can teach him how to be a good NFL QB.

[T0mShane]

I am more concerned about him not playing under center since high school; havn't we learned anything from drafting Geno Smith? It is going to take at least a year or maybe two before this guy is ready to face NFL defenses.

I don't think he even played under center in high school.

[#27TheDominator]

If Mariota had Rodgers' arm, I'd be all for it, and if you told me that Mariota was going to sit for three years, I'd be all for that, too. I think arm strength can be a bit overrated, but Mariota is a lousy passer overall. I don't think you can teach him how to be a good NFL QB.

 

3 years?  You'd be for taking a QB @ 6 that was going to sit 3 years?  See you in 2018!

[Sperm Edwards]

Nope, of course on little screen passes they were but most passing plays both Stedman and Tavon were covered to a certain extent. When they were open it was usually on deep balls and deep balls can be tough to deliver accuracy no matter how open the WR is. Though never have I seen wide receivers as open as they were in Oregon's offense.

 

Yeah last season I remember looking up some of Geno's college clips again, because the narrative was that all he did was throw 6 yard passes to Tavon Austin, who then ran 15-80 yards with it. He did a bit more than that.

 

Now it's a different discussion altogether as to whether or not that's managed to seep over into his pro game, since it certainly has not on balance. But it seems he didn't just throw 98% dumpoffs there and use that to launch himself into #1 overall pick status for most to all of his senior season. It was his attitude, rather than his play/film, that caused him to drop so far.

[T0mShane]

3 years? You'd be for taking a QB @ 6 that was going to sit 3 years? See you in 2018!

My point EXACTAMUNDO

[Sperm Edwards]

My point EXACTAMUNDO

 

My point is on Herman's Head.

[T0mShane]

My point is on Herman's Head.

I thought you were referring to that brutal sitcom

[#27TheDominator]

I thought you were referring to that brutal sitcom

 

Was that Tea Leoni and that dude from the Sex and the City woman as Sex Mannequin movie?

 

WOW:  I had that wrong.  Herman was the dude from the remake/wannabe sequel of the Mannequin movie, but in that one the Mannequin was Kristy Swanson.  Tea Leoni was from Flying Blind a different bizzaro Fox sitcom from the era.

[Sperm Edwards]

I thought you were referring to that brutal sitcom

 

It was a half-reference, yes. Hence capitalizing the word Head. Though I suppose one could argue it should always be capitalized.

[artemusclyde]

Mariota is an inaccurate passer with a marginal arm whose one great asset--his legs--are nearly worthless on the pro level. You don't draft a QB and teach him how to throw properly. It never works, ever.

 

First of all we passed on Carr and Bridgewater because we had just drafted a QB the previous year who showed promise and they thought could develop into a franchise qb.   Not because they were afraid of anything so that point is just plain stupid.   Secondly if RGIII was in this draft he would probably be going #1.  Mariota is almost as raw as Smith was coming out when it comes to NFL offense and this year there are several true blue chip prospects who will also be available at 6.   In fact he probably won't even see the field his first year and there is no guarantee he see it the second year.   It is not playing it safe, if you can get a boat load of picks for a guy who has never played one snap of his college career under center.   With one of those picks you could still take a qb like Hundley.  

 

By the way, Carr and Bridgewater, while promising, are far from sure things.  In fact both those teams are in the same boat as the Jets were last year; they both have 1st year qbs that they are high on and what to develop.  What the Jets should have done last year was get their 1st qb more weapons, which is exactly what the Raiders and Vikings will be doing this year. 

 

Lastly, it is possible to make your points with out resorting to insults, especially when you make straw man arguments (who said anything about waiting for the next Andrew Luck?).    

 

Geno ******* sucked his first year. He was rated as the worst passer in the NFL. He's hot garbage and was nowhere near anything close to the level Bridgewater/Carr were playing at last year. Sorry, but I'm not taking your opinion seriously on qbs when it was clear as ******* day that Geno sucked his first year and was a bust, he showed no promise.

 

And Shane, have you honestly ever watched this guy play? Marginal arm talent, are you ******* blind? He has a strong arm, just because he puts touch on his passes does not mean his arm is weak. Watch more of his film. Also, that release of his is a strong point. It's quick, get's rid of the ball quickly. It isn't a slow wind up that allows dbs to make a break on the ball, something that is another negative for Geno.

 

And Hundley are you freaking kidding me? Have you ever watched him play? He's Ej Manuel 2.0. And once again those butt load of picks don't mean squat without a qb. Perennial bottom feeders is what you guys root for. Also RG3 played in a system just as bad as the one Mariota plays in. If anything their comparable in terms of how their coming out, both prospects have/had questions about whether they can run a pro offense. 

 

Also, legs being worthless? Hardly Wilson and Kaepernick are making a career off of it. 

[JetBlue]

Geno ******* sucked his first year. He was rated as the worst passer in the NFL. He's hot garbage and was nowhere near anything close to the level Bridgewater/Carr were playing at last year. Sorry, but I'm not taking your opinion seriously on qbs when it was clear as ******* day that Geno sucked his first year and was a bust, he showed no promise.

 

And Shane, have you honestly ever watched this guy play? Marginal arm talent, are you ******* blind? He has a strong arm, just because he puts touch on his passes does not mean his arm is weak. Watch more of his film. Also, that release of his is a strong point. It's quick, get's rid of the ball quickly. It isn't a slow wind up that allows dbs to make a break on the ball, something that is another negative for Geno.

 

And Hundley are you freaking kidding me? Have you ever watched him play? He's Ej Manuel 2.0. And once again those butt load of picks don't mean squat without a qb. Perennial bottom feeders is what you guys root for. Also RG3 played in a system just as bad as the one Mariota plays in. If anything their comparable in terms of how their coming out, both prospects have/had questions about whether they can run a pro offense. 

 

Also, legs being worthless? Hardly Wilson and Kaepernick are making a career off of it. 

 

Dude relax.... take a deep breath.  First of all Geno should never have started because he wasn't ready and should have carried a clipboard his first year.  Too bad Rex had Sanchez play in that meaningless game because Idzik wanted to force feed Geno.   He still "led" the team to 8 wins and had a few good performances mixed in among some truly horrible games.   I could care less what you think of my opinion; the only opinion that really matters is Bowles and McCags and all indications are that Geno Smith will be on the team and will be competing for a starting spot and you know what?  Odds are he will be starter next year.

 

There are only 3 qbs that can win with just about any jags.  Brady, Rogers and Manning.   Everyone else needs weapons and playmakers not to mention the right offensive system; if you don't have a top 10 qb the smart thing to do is add as many playmakers as possible and build your offensive line.  You act like Mariota is the second coming of Andrew Luck; newsflash he isn't.  If he was, he would never even get to 6 because some team would trade the farm to get him.    You say Hundley is terrible but he will probably be the 3 or 4th qb taken in fact there is talk that the Eagles may take him if they can't move up for MM.   None of this is an exact science; for all you or I know, 3 years from now the best qb from this draft could be Garrett Grayson who should be available in the 3 or 4th round. 

[artemusclyde]

Dude relax.... take a deep breath.  First of all Geno should never have started because he wasn't ready and should have carried a clipboard his first year.  Too bad Rex had Sanchez play in that meaningless game because Idzik wanted to force feed Geno.   He still "led" the team to 8 wins and had a few good performances mixed in among some truly horrible games.   I could care less what you think of my opinion; the only opinion that really matters is Bowles and McCags and all indications are that Geno Smith will be on the team and will be competing for a starting spot and you know what?  Odds are he will be starter next year.

 

There are only 3 qbs that can win with just about any jags.  Brady, Rogers and Manning.   Everyone else needs weapons and playmakers not to mention the right offensive system; if you don't have a top 10 qb the smart thing to do is add as many playmakers as possible and build your offensive line.  You act like Mariota is the second coming of Andrew Luck; newsflash he isn't.  If he was, he would never even get to 6 because some team would trade the farm to get him.    You say Hundley is terrible but he will probably be the 3 or 4th qb taken in fact there is talk that the Eagles may take him if they can't move up for MM.   None of this is an exact science; for all you or I know, 3 years from now the best qb from this draft could be Garrett Grayson who should be available in the 3 or 4th round. 

 

The only thing Geno led this team to was Rex getting fired. And no I don't act like Mariota is the 2nd coming of Luck, but I sure as hell don't act like a lot of posters here where they believe that next year is going to have Luck. It happened the same thing with last year, people were saying that qb class sucked and next year would be better. Now comes this year and people are saying the same sh*t. Just cause I don't parrot bullsh*t that no draft expert is saying about Mariota, i.e. Weak arm, doesn't mean that I think he's Luck. Do I think he has a good chance of becoming a top 15 qb? Yes, and that's precisely why we should take him.

 

Their's a good video with an analysis on Mariota. Also, shows how full of sh*t Shane is on his arm strength and throwing style. His throwing style is what you want cause it's quick.

[drdetroit]

Oh I forgot Mariota isn't anything like Geno even though played in similar style offenses and never took snaps under Center in college. Mariota is like a nice guy and stuff.

[drdetroit]

I thought you were referring to that brutal sitcom

Brutal? That show was a beast

[drdetroit]

I don't think he even played under center in high school.

If we pass on Cooper for mariota I'm going to cry

[floridajet]

If Geno didn't suck so bad we wouldn't even be thinking QB in the first round.  I believe if either is available we will draft him.

Prefer Winston but will be happy with Mariota.  Here's hoping the football gods look kindly on us..

[T0mShane]

Their's a good video with an analysis on Mariota. Also, shows how full of sh*t Shane is on his arm strength and throwing style. His throwing style is what you want cause it's quick.

Within the first 30 seconds of the video: "...his size! His speed! His...not a bad arm."