Seems like every team but the patsies* get suspensions and fines

[drdetroit]

$250k and 4 game suspension because of text messages? Wtf?!?

[drdetroit]

Like he'd care as long as he keeps the job. Doesn't he make like $50 million a year or something?

That's an expensive piece of ass for Bob Kraft who normally pays women 10 grand to blow him

[ylekram]

Well, I can guarantee that the balls were deflated due to air pressure. Did you think they were stuffed?

 

Goodell and Kraft are close, but the guy who Wells reports to is Kensil who  runs the league investigations/operations and is the jets former operations manager and a well known BB hater.

 

Science explains why footballs lose pressure during changes in temp. The patriots football were delivered from a warm lockerroom to the officials, the colts footballs spent the night in an equipment truck which arrived at 3:20 in the afternoon along with the players. By 4;00PM they were delivered to the officials, 2 hours and 15 min prior to the game for checking. No unless you think the the colts heat a 30 foot box truck, you can assume that the colts balls were already at field game temp. 

 

I think what is taking so long is who knew and when did they know. Did the pats know that the balls would deflate and did nothing to prevent it? Why Did Grigson notify the league and the league never notify the game officials about the balls? Why did kensil check the balls at halfitme and not the game officials? Why did he not write down the numbers he got. Why did the league let almost 1/2 of the game to be played with balls that were under-inflated? Why were the balls not checked after or before the first time the pats had possession? 

 

If you were a colts fan and the league allowed the first 1/2 to be played with balls that were easier to play with(?) how the hell would you feel about the league.

this is the best explanation I have read on the subject. kinda fits like a glove.

[#27TheDominator]

Like he'd care as long as he keeps the job. Doesn't he make like $50 million a year or something?

 

I think I told this before, but at the London game a few years ago, a bunch of guys I knew from the States and the Italian leagues lined up to meet him and shake his hand.  One guy gets back and starts complaining that "Phil Simms is such a dick!"  Turns out the guy walked up to shake his hand and said "Hey Phil, loved you with the Giants"  Goodell did not like this very much at all.  They do look a little alike.

[LWC611]

The cheatriots were fined $500K and a first round pick for the tape gate...  Whether that was enough? who knows.  Someone should have been suspended in my mind...

[PFSIKH]

The NFL will say some BS that the balls were deflated because of air pressure.  Goodell and Kraft are attached at the hip.  The Jets will also lose a third round pick because of that relationship.  Just my predictions.

 

Well, it is not like the Patriots can allow this to be decided by the court of public opinion.

[patman]

Ideal gas laws are bullsh*t! You must have been a beacon of light in high school chemistry.

[patman]

Well, it is not like the Patriots can allow this to be decided by the court of public opinion.

It seems no one on this board is the least concerned about the league allowing 1/2 a championship game to be played with balls that they understand to be under-inflated. Or why the league office did the testing and not the game officials and why the league did not tell the officials that the pats may be deflating footballs.  

 

The first story that the media was given was Dequell Jackson thought an intercepted ball was under inflated, then when he denied it and said that if felt normal to him and he just gave it to the equipment manager for safe keeping. And that Pagamo was unaware of any issue with deflated balls until halftime, Grigson's story was that he became aware of the deflated balls during the earlier game in November, but Pagamo never heard of it? 

 

Before game time, the head coaches on on both teams submit a list of "issues" they have with the other team that they want the game officials to be aware of during the game, pick plays, cut blocks etc. How come Pagamo did not address the deflated footballs if he did knew of it?  Are nfl fans being asked to believe that a GM would notify the league that they believe a team is cheating but not notify his own head coach? 

 

Those are the "tuff" questions the league is dealing with. Plus kraft is now telling the league that he wants answers for the leaks that came from the league office during the first week of the investigation, before he went on his national tv tirade in AZ, than all of a sudden have stopped entirely

[drdetroit]

Nothing is happening to the patriots and Hernandez is getting acquitted. The only people who get punished in this society are 18 year old pot dealers and the Cleveland Browns.

[patman]

No need to panic - a ruling will come, they're not just going to ignore it.  

 

When the ruling comes back with either a slap on the wrist or more likely the sought after apology - then it's time for outrage.  But I'll hold my judgement until then...Gotta be before the draft.

Outrage for what? The league allowing 1/2 the game to be played with balls that did not meet the spec?  Or outrage that the refs were not told to look out for it?  Who do you think in the league office should be punished for allowing 1/2 of the championship game to be played with one team having whatever advantage the balls being under-inflated provides? Do you think the league office should be punished for not telling the officials and allowing the game to be played under a cloud? 

 

Or are you going to be outraged about the league office in its attempt to paint the pats in a bad light were willing to let  the colts play under that handicap? How would you feel if the league office told the jets to never mind that camera on the sideline?

[PFSIKH]

Outrage for what? The league allowing 1/2 the game to be played with balls that did not meet the spec?  Or outrage that the refs were not told to look out for it?  Who do you think in the league office should be punished for allowing 1/2 of the championship game to be played with one team having whatever advantage the balls being under-inflated provides? Do you think the league office should be punished for not telling the officials and allowing the game to be played under a cloud? 

 

Or are you going to be outraged about the league office in its attempt to paint the pats in a bad light were willing to let  the colts play under that handicap? How would you feel if the league office told the jets to never mind that camera on the sideline?

 

Yeah.

 

You can not spout you want to maintain the integrity of the game and then step on your crank this bad by allowing the game to start. 

 

If it was reported in November and may or may not have been reported in the Ravens game, you have a league official there when the balls arrive.  If they are way under like originally reported.  You record it, inflate thrm and then talk to Kraft on Monday or mete out punishment.

 

Done.

[patman]

Yeah.

 

You can not spout you want to maintain the integrity of the game and then step on your crank this bad by allowing the game to start. 

 

If it was reported in November and may or may not have been reported in the Ravens game, you have a league official there when the balls arrive.  If they are way under like originally reported.  You record it, inflate thrm and then talk to Kraft on Monday or mete out punishment.

 

Done.

It's like once it was scientifically possible that the temp variation could account for change, everybody in the media just jumped off the patriots are cheaters but nobody questions what occurred and why?

 

It was like oh well we cant persecute the pats and they just let it drop. THE LEAGUE LET A TEAM PLAY WITH UNDER-INFLATED BALLS IN A CHAMPIONSHIP GAME.  Why there is not an outrage from Colts fans is beyond me. it is like if you can't prove the pats deflated them, then nobody cares. Their GM tells the league that he believes the pats are playing with balls that are not in spec and the league lets the game be played! I mean I can understand letting 1 play happen but almost one whole half.  Blandino and Goddel both say they never heard of any team deflating footballs prior to 1/2 time.  Why?  Grigson said he notified the league 3 days earlier. Goddel and Vincent say there was no sting, but why did they let the game be played? 

 

Who released the story to the media that it was DeQuell Jackson that sparked the inquiry? Then he denied it was him and says the ball felt normal when he held it.   As far as I am concerned this is 10x the Ray Rice fiasco.  

[Jet Fan RI]

It's like once it was scientifically possible that the temp variation could account for change, everybody in the media just jumped off the patriots are cheaters but nobody questions what occurred and why?

 

It was like oh well we cant persecute the pats and they just let it drop. THE LEAGUE LET A TEAM PLAY WITH UNDER-INFLATED BALLS IN A CHAMPIONSHIP GAME.  Why there is not an outrage from Colts fans is beyond me. it is like if you can't prove the pats deflated them, then nobody cares. Their GM tells the league that he believes the pats are playing with balls that are not in spec and the league lets the game be played! I mean I can understand letting 1 play happen but almost one whole half.  Blandino and Goddel both say they never heard of any team deflating footballs prior to 1/2 time.  Why?  Grigson said he notified the league 3 days earlier. Goddel and Vincent say there was no sting, but why did they let the game be played? 

 

Who released the story to the media that it was DeQuell Jackson that sparked the inquiry? Then he denied it was him and says the ball felt normal when he held it.   As far as I am concerned this is 10x the Ray Rice fiasco.  

 

Interesting how you have taken to discussing this as if it is a fait accompli that the deflation was entirely natural. I think it is also possible that the deflation may be too much to explain via natural causes. I'm still waiting for the report from the Columbia physicist and, as far as I am concerned, it is as likely to go against the Pats as to favor them.

[JetsRay]

Well, I can guarantee that the balls were deflated due to air pressure. Did you think they were stuffed?

 

Goodell and Kraft are close, but the guy who Wells reports to is Kensil who  runs the league investigations/operations and is the jets former operations manager and a well known BB hater.

 

Science explains why footballs lose pressure during changes in temp. The patriots football were delivered from a warm lockerroom to the officials, the colts footballs spent the night in an equipment truck which arrived at 3:20 in the afternoon along with the players. By 4;00PM they were delivered to the officials, 2 hours and 15 min prior to the game for checking. No unless you think the the colts heat a 30 foot box truck, you can assume that the colts balls were already at field game temp. 

 

I think what is taking so long is who knew and when did they know. Did the pats know that the balls would deflate and did nothing to prevent it? Why Did Grigson notify the league and the league never notify the game officials about the balls? Why did kensil check the balls at halfitme and not the game officials? Why did he not write down the numbers he got. Why did the league let almost 1/2 of the game to be played with balls that were under-inflated? Why were the balls not checked after or before the first time the pats had possession? 

 

If you were a colts fan and the league allowed the first 1/2 to be played with balls that were easier to play with(?) how the hell would you feel about the league.

 

ROFLMAO, it's amazing how much you've spun this as the Patriots being completely innocent, and how much you've convinced yourself that it is Kensil is driving all of this as some kind of undercover agenda against the Pats.  I mean the Pats have been completely innocent in throughout their history, who would ever question them?

 

I love the record by record account of every action that has took place leading up to the game, as if you are involved in the investigation yourself.  But let's ignore the Glazer report that it was the Ravens that tipped off the Colts, setting the stage for the ongoing investigation.  Oh right, the same media you blame for having an agenda against the Pats, you are giving credence to every published report on the investigation, whatever spins your defense agenda making your precious Pats the victim in all of this.

 

LOLOLOL

 

Pats fans are a nervous wreck, holy sh*t it will be awesome if they get buried for this.

[patman]

Interesting how you have taken to discussing this as if it is a fait accompli that the deflation was entirely natural. I think it is also possible that the deflation may be too much to explain via natural causes. I'm still waiting for the report from the Columbia physicist and, as far as I am concerned, it is as likely to go against the Pats as to favor them.

I think it has been done already in a lab and the results will be duplicated. Then throw in that there is no visual evidence of the balls being deflated. Once the Colts balls and the colts equipment was known to be on the truck until the truck arrived with the buses at 3:20 in the afternoon.  That only gave them 40 min to get the balls to the other side of the stadium to the officials locker room so that they could have them there @4:00 pm.   Now that assumes that the equipment guys brought the balls to the refs before even  placing the uniforms tape and gear in the locker room, and logically you would think that they did the tape and uniforms first.  To think that the colts balls would not already be at outside conditons would be a stretch unless the equiptment mangers placed the balls on the heated bus with the players and I don't see that as likely.

 

Now another labs has said that the air coming out of those portable pumps may be as high as 120 degrees.  So if the pats adjusted their balls to the min and some of it was topped of with heated air from those pumps that may cause an even more pronounced PSI drop.

 

But that is just the science, and that will be determined later in the columbia report as you pointed out. My posts have more to do with the leagues involvement in this episode. Why did the league say they never got a complaint  while Grigson said he complained 3 days earlier. Why did a NFL official measure the balls and not note the 

results, why did not the game officials do this?   Why did the colts say it was dequell jackson's complaint about the intercepted ball and then change it to that they suspected it back in November?  Why did the NFL not check the balls prior to kickoff?

[patman]

ROFLMAO, it's amazing how much you've spun this as the Patriots being completely innocent, and how much you've convinced yourself that it is Kensil is driving all of this as some kind of undercover agenda against the Pats.  I mean the Pats have been completely innocent in throughout their history, who would ever question them?

 

I love the record by record account of every action that has took place leading up to the game, as if you are involved in the investigation yourself.  But let's ignore the Glazer report that it was the Ravens that tipped off the Colts, setting the stage for the ongoing investigation.  Oh right, the same media you blame for having an agenda against the Pats, you are giving credence to every published report on the investigation, whatever spins your defense agenda making your precious Pats the victim in all of this.

 

LOLOLOL

 

Pats fans are a nervous wreck, holy sh*t it will be awesome if they get buried for this.

First it was not Glazer but Easison who put forth that theory.

 

I don't know if the pats are innocent or guilty, I will wait for the report. All I am saying is that since all the science people that have commented have said that it is possible for the the balls to lose PSI due to weather conditions, I as a fan of the team, hopes that it does prove out. And lacking any visual evidence other wise I think the columbia report will bear that out.

 

But you tell me why the NFL let them play almost a full half or almost 2 hours after the balls were checked to check them, if the Colts GM told the league that he suspected funny business 3 days before the game. They let the colts play with a handicap! WTF. Don't you understand what that means?

 

How come the league office did not tell the commissioner that they may be cheating going on in the championship game specially in light of what you said that the pats have a reputation for cheating when the rules state that violations need to be brought to the attention of the commissioner.  Or do you think someone did tell Godell and he lied about it, which he certainly has done in the past.  

 

Why did Pagamo say he never heard about the pats deflating footballs until that game if his GM made the complaint? 

 

And Yes I hope Kensil and Vincent both lose their jobs, if Grigson is found to be having told the truth that he told the league office about his concerns and they let 1/2 of a game be played before checking the balls. 

[CaliforniaJet]

these trolls are fkn crazy stupid

[PFSIKH]

Interesting how you have taken to discussing this as if it is a fait accompli that the deflation was entirely natural. I think it is also possible that the deflation may be too much to explain via natural causes. I'm still waiting for the report from the Columbia physicist and, as far as I am concerned, it is as likely to go against the Pats as to favor them.

 

Can't the same be said of fans of the other 31 teams?

 

Everything patman said has been released by someone.

 

Does it exonerate the Patriots?  No.  They could be guilty.

 

It also does not dam them.

 

The Patriots could be guilty, but the league F'd it up so bad they cannot proove anything.

 

The way they handled this kind of sheds light on how they dorked up Rice (e.g. having the video and seeing it to not seeing it) investigation.

[patman]

Interesting how you have taken to discussing this as if it is a fait accompli that the deflation was entirely natural. I think it is also possible that the deflation may be too much to explain via natural causes. I'm still waiting for the report from the Columbia physicist and, as far as I am concerned, it is as likely to go against the Pats as to favor them.

And I understand that your basis of this is the initial Mort report and not the subsequent Rappaport or Florio articles that have only the one ball that the colts had 2psi under  and the rest around 1lb.  Or do you think that a 1lb is PSI drop would not be expected?. 

[neckdemon]

First it was not Glazer but Easison who put forth that theory.

 

I don't know if the pats are innocent or guilty, I will wait for the report. All I am saying is that since all the science people that have commented have said that it is possible for the the balls to lose PSI due to weather conditions, I as a fan of the team, hopes that it does prove out. And lacking any visual evidence other wise I think the columbia report will bear that out.

 

But you tell me why the NFL let them play almost a full half or almost 2 hours after the balls were checked to check them, if the Colts GM told the league that he suspected funny business 3 days before the game. They let the colts play with a handicap! WTF. Don't you understand what that means?

 

How come the league office did not tell the commissioner that they may be cheating going on in the championship game specially in light of what you said that the pats have a reputation for cheating when the rules state that violations need to be brought to the attention of the commissioner.  Or do you think someone did tell Godell and he lied about it, which he certainly has done in the past.  

 

Why did Pagamo say he never heard about the pats deflating footballs until that game if his GM made the complaint? 

 

And Yes I hope Kensil and Vincent both lose their jobs, if Grigson is found to be having told the truth that he told the league office about his concerns and they let 1/2 of a game be played before checking the balls. 

 

thew weather conditions angle just doesn't pan out. if it were the reason then the colts balls would have been deflated also

[patman]

Regardless of whether the pats are found guilty, of culpable or whatever, to me this is a much bigger clusterbuck than the Ray Rice case. 2 months to duplicate what some labs have done in 2 days. This should have been completed 1 week after the superbowl. 

 

1. you either believe that the refs checked the balls before the game or not.

 

2. does the physics explain the drop in PSI.

[PatsFanTX]

thew weather conditions angle just doesn't pan out. if it were the reason then the colts balls would have been deflated also

 

Maybe it was warmer on the Colts side of the field.

[patman]

thew weather conditions angle just doesn't pan out. if it were the reason then the colts balls would have been deflated also

 

No it does not. The colts football were on a box truck for a full day before being brought to be checked. The Truck and the busses arrived at Foxboro at 3:20 in the afternoon, the balls had to be in the officals lockeroom by 4:00PM. Those balls were already cold. The patriot balls were taken from the locker room where guy were getting dressed, taped and examined. I estimate that the locker room was at 72-75 degrees.  Almost a 25 degree delta to the 50 degrees game time temp. 

 

You are correct in that the colts balls will also deflate but only due to the rain

[Jet Fan RI]

And I understand that your basis of this is the initial Mort report and not the subsequent Rappaport or Florio articles that have only the one ball that the colts had 2psi under  and the rest around 1lb.  Or do you think that a 1lb is PSI drop would not be expected?. 

 

When I did the calculations I found that a reasonable temperature drop would produce half of the drop that was measured. That excludes the effects of the rain. But I am happy to wait for the technical report from Columbia. As I said, I think it could go either way.I'm just objecting to the way you seem to be suggesting the tests we know about pretty much prove the case in the Pats' favor. Not in my judgment.

[Jet Fan RI]

Can't the same be said of fans of the other 31 teams?

 

Everything patman said has been released by someone.

 

Does it exonerate the Patriots?  No.  They could be guilty.

 

It also does not dam them.

 

The Patriots could be guilty, but the league F'd it up so bad they cannot proove anything.

 

The way they handled this kind of sheds light on how they dorked up Rice (e.g. having the video and seeing it to not seeing it) investigation.

 

But that is exactly my point.

[Jet Fan RI]

Regardless of whether the pats are found guilty, of culpable or whatever, to me this is a much bigger clusterbuck than the Ray Rice case. 2 months to duplicate what some labs have done in 2 days. This should have been completed 1 week after the superbowl. 

 

1. you either believe that the refs checked the balls before the game or not.

 

2. does the physics explain the drop in PSI.

 

It may. Let's see what Columbia has to say.

[Jet Fan RI]

No it does not. The colts football were on a box truck for a full day before being brought to be checked. The Truck and the busses arrived at Foxboro at 3:20 in the afternoon, the balls had to be in the officals lockeroom by 4:00PM. Those balls were already cold. The patriot balls were taken from the locker room where guy were getting dressed, taped and examined. I estimate that the locker room was at 72-75 degrees.  Almost a 25 degree delta to the 50 degrees game time temp. 

 

You are correct in that the colts balls will also deflate but only due to the rain

 

Possibly a good point, although I don't know how firmly established the temperature history of the Colts' balls really is. But conceding that issue for the sake of argument, the lack of deflation of the Colts' balls is suggestive that the rain had little to no effect. Which would mean the Pats' balls deflation would have to have come completely from the temperature drop. I don't think the temperature drop can explain more than half the measured deflation.

[Jetfan13]

First it was not Glazer but Easison who put forth that theory.

 

I don't know if the pats are innocent or guilty, I will wait for the report. All I am saying is that since all the science people that have commented have said that it is possible for the the balls to lose PSI due to weather conditions, I as a fan of the team, hopes that it does prove out. And lacking any visual evidence other wise I think the columbia report will bear that out.

 

But you tell me why the NFL let them play almost a full half or almost 2 hours after the balls were checked to check them, if the Colts GM told the league that he suspected funny business 3 days before the game. They let the colts play with a handicap! WTF. Don't you understand what that means?

 

How come the league office did not tell the commissioner that they may be cheating going on in the championship game specially in light of what you said that the pats have a reputation for cheating when the rules state that violations need to be brought to the attention of the commissioner.  Or do you think someone did tell Godell and he lied about it, which he certainly has done in the past.  

 

Why did Pagamo say he never heard about the pats deflating footballs until that game if his GM made the complaint? 

 

And Yes I hope Kensil and Vincent both lose their jobs, if Grigson is found to be having told the truth that he told the league office about his concerns and they let 1/2 of a game be played before checking the balls. 

The truly amazing thing is how only the patsies* balls lost pressure. I LOVE ******* SCIENCE.

[Jetfan13]

No it does not. The colts football were on a box truck for a full day before being brought to be checked. The Truck and the busses arrived at Foxboro at 3:20 in the afternoon, the balls had to be in the officals lockeroom by 4:00PM. Those balls were already cold. The patriot balls were taken from the locker room where guy were getting dressed, taped and examined. I estimate that the locker room was at 72-75 degrees.  Almost a 25 degree delta to the 50 degrees game time temp. 

 

You are correct in that the colts balls will also deflate but only due to the rain

you are amazing, NOT.

[drdetroit]

[patman]

Possibly a good point, although I don't know how firmly established the temperature history of the Colts' balls really is. But conceding that issue for the sake of argument, the lack of deflation of the Colts' balls is suggestive that the rain had little to no effect. Which would mean the Pats' balls deflation would have to have come completely from the temperature drop. I don't think the temperature drop can explain more than half the measured deflation.

No, just that the colts balls only suffered the loss of PSi due to that one condition. If their balls were inflated to 13 lbs and lost 1/2lb psi due to conditions other than the temp only,  They still will be playable. if they were inflated even higher towards the upper end of the spec even more could have been lost.

 

If your paranoid like me and believe the colts knew the balls were going to be checked you can be pretty damm sure that they were not going to inflate the balls to the min, which the pats admitted that they did and what they requested.   

[patman]

The truly amazing thing is how only the patsies* balls lost pressure. I LOVE ******* SCIENCE.

Again, the patriot balls were not the only balls that lost pressure, there ball were the only ones that fell below the 12.5min threshold.  If you can't follow the argument, please ask and one of the adults will help.

[Jet Fan RI]

No, just that the colts balls only suffered the loss of PSi due to that one condition. If their balls were inflated to 13 lbs and lost 1/2lb psi due to conditions other than the temp only,  They still will be playable. if they were inflated even higher towards the upper end of the spec even more could have been lost.

 

If your paranoid like me and believe the colts knew the balls were going to be checked you can be pretty damm sure that they were not going to inflate the balls to the min, which the pats admitted that they did and what they requested.   

 

Well, it all comes back to whether it is reasonable to treat the facts/testing so far available as resulting in a fait accompli exoneration of the Pats. It's far from that, in my mind. The known facts are consistent with little to no evaporative cooling due to the rain/wind. The known facts are even consistent with the possibility the Pats' balls did not even reach the atmospheric temperature on the field during the game. We simply do not know how good of an insulator the material of the ball really is. The manufacturer has even made strong public statements that deflation due to temperature drop would not have happened with their balls. But the insulating capability of the material is just one more thing that can be tested. We have no way to know how such testing would turn out.

 

So there's no reason for optimism or pessimisim on either side of this subject right now. We simply must wait for the test results.

[drdetroit]

[Jet Fan RI]

 

Actually, I do believe there is reason to hope some real science may be coming. I believe the Columbia physicist will likely do the job right. Still, I hope I get a chance to see the actual report.