Jim Miller mock has Jets taking Jaylon Smith

[slats]

9 minutes ago, JiF said:

No.  A stud QB helped Seattle win a SB.  Lynch was there 2 seasons prior to Wilson, running wild to the tune of 7 wins on one of the worst offensive teams in the league.

I'm going to challenge you on being a BAP all the way guy because I'm pretty confident you and I have both been very adamant you dont take Guards in the top 10 when we arguing against Sherf's, Womack's of the world. etc when the Jets had a top 10 pick.  Could be mistaking you but I'm pretty sure it was you.

I dont see Elliot as a cant miss prospect.  I see the difference between him and say, Booker, Perkins, Procise, are very minimal.  sh*t, I could see Keith Marshall pulling a Terrell Davis.  

Also, I see 4 cant miss prospects coming out next year that all could go 1st rounds.  And I see an insanely strong FA RB class and I see a league where the RB position means very little.  7 1k rushers fewest in NFL history, 1 of them made the playoffs, none of them were on a top 10 offense.

Even if he is a stud, his impact will be minimal.  1st round just isnt a place to spending picks unless you're taking Toddy Gurley or Leonard Fournette, or Nick Chubb, or Christian McCaffery or Dalvin Cook. 

Lol, yes, definitely me. 

If Elliot isn't a true stud, or isn't the BAP when they're sitting there at #20, then they pass on him. That simple. But if he is a can't miss prospect, they shouldn't. That's all I'm saying. Certainly not suggesting they should target a RB in the first round, just that I wouldn't shy away from one. 

Speaking of the devaluing of the position, I'm not a fan of RBs on their second contracts. Prefer to avoid the FA market for them altogether. If the Jets don't (and they probably won't) take a RB in the first, I hope one falls to them in the next couple rounds. And then they'll need a late rounder or a couple UDFAs to compete. It's a big need on this team right now. I understand your statistical argument, but statistics say Ryan Fitzpatrick was a better QB than Cam Newton over the last two years, too. Just saying that solid RB who can both run a catch is a tremendous asset for a weak armed QB, or a young, inexperienced QB. And this team will be fielding one or the other over the next couple or few years. 

Don't want to suggest that I'll be unhappy if they take a pass rusher, OT, or even a QB there, because I won't. Just the way this particular mock fell out, Elliot would be on my radar. 

[SayNoToDMC]

Carl is still hoping to exhume the corpse of Lennay Kekua. Dr. James Andrews could go over an MRI with him and Carl would just question his credentials. 

[afosomf]

55 minutes ago, JiF said:

No.  A stud QB helped Seattle win a SB.  Lynch was there 2 seasons prior to Wilson, running wild to the tune of 7 wins on one of the worst offensive teams in the league.

I'm going to challenge you on being a BAP all the way guy because I'm pretty confident you and I have both been very adamant you dont take Guards in the top 10 when we arguing against Sherf's, Womack's of the world. etc when the Jets had a top 10 pick.  Could be mistaking you but I'm pretty sure it was you.

I dont see Elliot as a cant miss prospect.  I see the difference between him and say, Booker, Perkins, Procise, are very minimal.  sh*t, I could see Keith Marshall pulling a Terrell Davis.  

Also, I see 4 cant miss prospects coming out next year that all could go 1st rounds.  And I see an insanely strong FA RB class and I see a league where the RB position means very little.  7 1k rushers fewest in NFL history, 1 of them made the playoffs, none of them were on a top 10 offense.

Even if he is a stud, his impact will be minimal.  1st round just isnt a place to spending picks unless you're taking Toddy Gurley or Leonard Fournette, or Nick Chubb, or Christian McCaffery or Dalvin Cook. 

Chubb has same injury as Jaylon, not even sure he plays this yr. Cook has had his share of off the field issues, Fournette is a beast for sure top 5 pick. McCaff is very good not sure how high he goes. 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

19 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Wasted pick? That's rich. Coming from a team that wastes picks on the regular. You have no idea what the future holds. Some team is going to get a fantastic value in the mid rounds. Wasted pick. Ha. Get real. 

Right now the Jets have 6 picks. They can't afford to be throwing one at a guy who will likely never see the field. Okay, maybe I'd burn a 7th on him. If somebody pokes him in the eye, he could do Long John Silver impersonations. I'd throw in the parrot.

[CrazyCarl40]

48 minutes ago, SayNoToDMC said:

Carl is still hoping to exhume the corpse of Lennay Kekua. Dr. James Andrews could go over an MRI with him and Carl would just question his credentials. 

That's not true. Do you have a quote from any doctor on this issue? Let me know when you do.

6 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Right now the Jets have 6 picks. They can't afford to be throwing one at a guy who will likely never see the field. Okay, maybe I'd burn a 7th on him. If somebody pokes him in the eye, he could do Long John Silver impersonations. I'd throw in the parrot.

You're right. They should be scouring the middle rounds for the next Jalen Saunders or Tahj Boyd. Come on now.

[SayNoToDMC]

15 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

That's not true. Do you have a quote from any doctor on this issue? Let me know when you do.

You're right. They should be scouring the middle rounds for the next Jalen Saunders or Tahj Boyd. Come on now.

Since  didn't highlight or take issue with them Lennay Kekua thing can I assume that is true?

[CrazyCarl40]

Just now, SayNoToDMC said:

Since  didn't highlight or take issue with them Lenny Kekua thing can I assume that is true?

No, I tend to ignore the ignorant.

[SayNoToDMC]

15 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

No, I tend to ignore the ignorant.

 

Like NFL team front offices/medical staff,  or peer reviewed medical journals on nerve damage

[JiFtheOracle]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Lol, yes, definitely me. 

If Elliot isn't a true stud, or isn't the BAP when they're sitting there at #20, then they pass on him. That simple. But if he is a can't miss prospect, they shouldn't. That's all I'm saying. Certainly not suggesting they should target a RB in the first round, just that I wouldn't shy away from one. 

Speaking of the devaluing of the position, I'm not a fan of RBs on their second contracts. Prefer to avoid the FA market for them altogether. If the Jets don't (and they probably won't) take a RB in the first, I hope one falls to them in the next couple rounds. And then they'll need a late rounder or a couple UDFAs to compete. It's a big need on this team right now. I understand your statistical argument, but statistics say Ryan Fitzpatrick was a better QB than Cam Newton over the last two years, too. Just saying that solid RB who can both run a catch is a tremendous asset for a weak armed QB, or a young, inexperienced QB. And this team will be fielding one or the other over the next couple or few years. 

Don't want to suggest that I'll be unhappy if they take a pass rusher, OT, or even a QB there, because I won't. Just the way this particular mock fell out, Elliot would be on my radar. 

I too tend to be a little skeptical of the 2nd contract to RB's but I think this class is a little different as there are a ton of guys out there that I dont think have been overused, per say.

41 minutes ago, afosomf said:

Chubb has same injury as Jaylon, not even sure he plays this yr. Cook has had his share of off the field issues, Fournette is a beast for sure top 5 pick. McCaff is very good not sure how high he goes. 

I thought Chubb has ligament damage but didnt tear his ACL and they expect an full recovery? 

[afosomf]

chubb tore 3 ligaments (one of them being PCL) not sure he will ever be the same player

 

http://www.macon.com/sports/college/sec/university-of-georgia/bulldogs-beat/article52063140.html

[CrazyCarl40]

41 minutes ago, SayNoToDMC said:

 

Like NFL team front offices/medical staff,  or peer reviewed medical journals on nerve damage

Again, show me a quote from a doctor about this specific knee on this specific player. Let's go ahead and make sure said doctor has actually met with said player and examined said player. Seems reasonable.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

That's not true. Do you have a quote from any doctor on this issue? Let me know when you do.

You're right. They should be scouring the middle rounds for the next Jalen Saunders or Tahj Boyd. Come on now.

 

I'm trying to figure out the logic here. We wasted picks in the past so therefore we shouldn't be concerned if we waste picks now because it's Jaylon Smith.

Making past stupid picks does not support making stupid picks in the future.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

per say.

UF grad.

[CrazyCarl40]

1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

 

I'm trying to figure out the logic here. We wasted picks in the past so therefore we shouldn't be concerned if we waste picks now because it's Jaylon Smith.

Making past stupid picks does not support making stupid picks in the future.

The logic is taking a top 10 talent in any round after the 3rd is not a bad investment. Why don't you read this, educate yourself and then explain to me how the Jets are going to hit on starters from round 3-7:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2015/05/22/tracking-nfl-draft-efficiency-how-contingent-is-success-to-draft-position/2/#33f42c333cff

 

[Ben Had]

18 hours ago, #90 said:

His knee is shot. NERVE DAMAGE! Although some team will gamble with a late round pick on him.

But if it is something that can be recovered from, the Jets would have picked the 2 best players in the last 2 drafts. 

[JiFtheOracle]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

UF grad.

Want to compare W2's? 

[T0mShane]

Just now, JiF said:

Want to compare W2's? 

You don't use an apostrophe to pluralize "W2s."

[JiFtheOracle]

Just now, T0mShane said:

You don't use an apostrophe to pluralize "W2s."

Cool, want to compare? 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

Cool, want to compare? 

No subject pronoun.

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Again, show me a quote from a doctor about this specific knee on this specific player. Let's go ahead and make sure said doctor has actually met with said player and examined said player. Seems reasonable.

Lets all pretend that a Doctor is allowed to disclose what he found after an examination of a player to the press.

Lets ignore that ESPNs Sheffter is being sued for passing the findings of records given to him on TV and radio reports.

 

 

[CrazyCarl40]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Lets all pretend that a Doctor is allowed to disclose what he found after an examination of a player to the press.

Lets ignore that ESPNs Sheffter is being sued for passing the finding of records given to him on TV and radio reports.

 

 

Exactly. So until you actually hear it from the player or someone close to him, then it's best to take it all with a grain of salt. Thanks for proving my point.

[JiFtheOracle]

Just now, T0mShane said:

No subject pronoun.

Super educated, smarter than Spock!

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Exactly. So until you actually hear it from the player or someone close to him, then it's best to take it all with a grain of salt. Thanks for proving my point.

No, not close to exactly. 

Word leaks out.  And usually with something like this is 100% accurate without a Drs signoff.  People dont go around telling others that a players injury is bad when it isnt.  If that were the case you get the Dr to come out and dispute it.

No one is agreeing with you or making your point, its wrong

[FTL Jet Fan]

Jim Miller is a douche and the total Jets hater, F him. 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

The logic is taking a top 10 talent in any round after the 3rd is not a bad investment. Why don't you read this, educate yourself and then explain to me how the Jets are going to hit on starters from round 3-7:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2015/05/22/tracking-nfl-draft-efficiency-how-contingent-is-success-to-draft-position/2/#33f42c333cff

 

Which is entirely contingent on his ability to be on the field. Which looks extremely doubtful. Where you got the idea that I think the Jets will hit on starters in every round, I have no idea. I'm well aware of the probabilities of success generally correlated to slot. What's amazing is how fragile that probability is even for first rounders. But every team needs to hit the bullseye on the first two picks at least. Beyond that, if you get projects who make it or utility players that don't disappear, you're doing well. So your point is actually pointless.

[CrazyCarl40]

2 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Which is entirely contingent on his ability to be on the field. Which looks extremely doubtful. Where you got the idea that I think the Jets will hit on starters in every round, I have no idea. I'm well aware of the probabilities of success generally correlated to slot. What's amazing is how fragile that probability is even for first rounders. But every team needs to hit the bullseye on the first two picks at least. Beyond that, if you get projects who make it or utility players that don't disappear, you're doing well. So your point is actually pointless.

You read that whole thing and found my point pointless? Jaylon Smith on one leg right now is a better chance to be a starter in the NFL than about 90% of players taken in the 3rd round and beyond. Even if he, by some stroke of terrible luck, never plays, he's still a better pick than most because the upside of the player. If he recovers and plays to his ability, he's going to be a star. Risk/reward. 

[Larz]

smith should just retire.  he's going to wind up stealing money from some dumb GM who takes a flyer on him

[Long Island Leprechaun]

21 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

You read that whole thing and found my point pointless? Jaylon Smith on one leg right now is a better chance to be a starter in the NFL than about 90% of players taken in the 3rd round and beyond. Even if he, by some stroke of terrible luck, never plays, he's still a better pick than most because the upside of the player. If he recovers and plays to his ability, he's going to be a star. Risk/reward. 

If that's your philosophy, then we are worlds apart. That's not risk/reward... that's hope and a prayer. My position would change if Smith gets a positive evaluation on the status of his knee. Until then, he's undraftable.

[CrazyCarl40]

8 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

If that's your philosophy, then we are worlds apart. That's not risk/reward... that's hope and a prayer. My position would change if Smith gets a positive evaluation on the status of his knee. Until then, he's undraftable.

No one is undraftable. That's a ridiculous philosophy.  

[SayNoToDMC]

5 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

No one is undraftable. That's a ridiculous philosophy.  

My dreams are still alive