This is what I dont understand.

[Villain The Foe]

4 hours ago, Pcola said:

We like Lynch because we don't know how well he will do in a pro system.  We already know that Cook and Hack have played poorly in a pro system so they really shouldn't be options.  

So for a team with no starting QBs on the roster, no cap space to do squat, we are just hopeful that we can at least have a chance to not be in the QB market for once.

Kevin Hogan ran a pro style offense. Matter of fact, its the Same offense ran in Buffalo right now. Their GM Doug Whaley confirmed that himself. 

Right there you have a guy who's ran a pro system, and actually won more games than the QB before him, Andrew Luck. 

[Paradis]

38 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Thanks. 

Let me respond to what you said. 

1. Fans werent patient with Chad Pennington in the way that im talking about. We had Vinny Testaverde and Jets fans were still high on that 1998 ride. It was quite obvious that Pennington was going to sit behind our starter and develop and ultimately be the successor. This is actually the perfect opportunity to draft a rookie QB and hide him. People were pissed at Sanchez calling him a bust and how the defense carried him his rookie and sophomore seasons. Im not sure if you were around Jetnation at the time but I remember it clearly. Thats not the type of response Pennington got, probably because he was sitting his first 2 seasons....developing. 

2. Im not way overplaying the developmental card. Paxton Lynch is a one read & run QB. He wasnt asked to have run an intricate pre-snap read system. He didnt have to go through progressions often. But to get past that part, let me just say it plainly, he's not ready. Of course every QB has to develop because every rookie is entering the professional level on a new team with new offenses/defense etc. But there are obvious differences depending on QB's prior history and their success in those roles. However, its one thing to learn a new system, its another to learn a new system via your study book, while also having to learn HOW to run it real time. Lynch is coming from a one read spread offense with read option elements, playing at Memphis. No, he's not a fetus, but he's not ready, which is the point here. 

3. Fitz could come here, Fitz could be out of a Job. We'll have to see. The last time I checked, negotiations are met by both sides agreeing. Maybe you have some inside knowledge, but I havent heard a thing. 

Every rookie QB with qualities have super f'ing potential, until they're a Jet and its the end of the first season. Then they're nothing more than a scrub that was worse than the prior QB. Tell me im wrong! lol. 

 

This one's gonna be different! I can feel it! 

1 -- something to remember: You're only "hearing" the squeaky wheel... when Mark was being mark in year 3... i wasn't logging onto any forum to scream "I hope he does better!".. but you indeed would have read all the vitriol from the other crowd. Bitchy ppl log on to bitch... patient ppl are quietly patient. So consider the source. 

2 -- I can tell who's really spent time watching Lynch based on the way they handle the "he's too raw" conversation. Lynch was the very best in this class at improvising, extenting plays and looking for the open man. There was no "progression" in that offense... but what he did do, is what a QB CAPABLE of making progression would do, stand tall, eyes down field, find the open man...  So when you make "1-read" complaints about his ability - you're already dead in the water as far as I'm concerned. He certainly has parts of his game that will need to be developed, but most have no clue what they're talking about when that say that. 

 

Anyway - the time for strife and debate is over!! We're t-minus 23 hours, and it's time to get pumped.... god help me if we draft Jarran Reed - that's all i'm gonna say.

[CrazyCarl40]

51 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I want Lynch for two reasons.

1) Insane/off the charts physical ability at the QB position

2) Chan Gailey's ability to get the most out of the physical ability of his QB's

What if Gailey isn't coaching when Lynch is ready to try and play starting QB?

[Thor99]

Did anyone else read the thread title and think, "How I can just kill a man"?

[Villain The Foe]

17 minutes ago, Thor99 said:

Did anyone else read the thread title and think, "How I can just kill a man"?

No. 

[cant wait]

Lynch is a good prospect and it's likely any player available at 20 is going to be considered "developmental" to some extent. If the coaches think they can work with him, then you make the pick. The reward is great enough to outweigh the risk anyway, it's not like the jets are mortgaging future draft picks here

[cant wait]

3 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Use #20 on BPA, seriously.

Take developmental QB in R2. Hack or Cook? Or R3? Seems like better use of draft positioning.

Unless a highly rated prospect falls to 20 then BPA is not going to be a big factor with this pick. I've heard that some teams don't really see a big value difference between the #15-45 picks this year

[Integrity28]

Just now, cant wait said:

Unless a highly rated prospect falls to 20 then BPA is not going to be a big factor with this pick. I've heard that some teams don't really see a big value difference between the #15-45 picks this year

eh, all I really mean is that if the best player on our board at 20 is a WR, by a large margin, then we should take the WR instead of reaching on a need position that may not be ranked nearly as high

our team is old, the best thing we can do is load up on the best ranked players we get the chance to add

[CotcheryifyouCan]

i do not like lynch at all.  i feels hes a project and we already have one of those in petty.  but if mac and his scouts think hes the guy, then i will be ok with it. i mean they know a whole lot more and have done way more research then me

[drdetroit]

Lynch is not a good prospect.  He's a worse version of Mariota or Kaepernick.

[Mainejet]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Not interested. Dismissed. 

That's because I'm right. And just so you know it isn't the fans that are practicing knee jerk reactions with QB's. It is the Jets management for good reason and I 100% agree with it. They gave Sanchez 4 seasons and he was terrible. They won't make that mistake again with Geno.

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

That's because I'm right. And just so you know it isn't the fans that are practicing knee jerk reactions with QB's. It is the Jets management for good reason and I 100% agree with it. They gave Sanchez 4 seasons and he was terrible. They won't make that mistake again with Geno.

True. Now, move on. 

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

 

This one's gonna be different! I can feel it! 

1 -- something to remember: You're only "hearing" the squeaky wheel... when Mark was being mark in year 3... i wasn't logging onto any forum to scream "I hope he does better!".. but you indeed would have read all the vitriol from the other crowd. Bitchy ppl log on to bitch... patient ppl are quietly patient. So consider the source. 

2 -- I can tell who's really spent time watching Lynch based on the way they handle the "he's too raw" conversation. Lynch was the very best in this class at improvising, extenting plays and looking for the open man. There was no "progression" in that offense... but what he did do, is what a QB CAPABLE of making progression would do, stand tall, eyes down field, find the open man...  So when you make "1-read" complaints about his ability - you're already dead in the water as far as I'm concerned. He certainly has parts of his game that will need to be developed, but most have no clue what they're talking about when that say that. 

 

Anyway - the time for strife and debate is over!! We're t-minus 23 hours, and it's time to get pumped.... god help me if we draft Jarran Reed - that's all i'm gonna say.

I feel you 100% on that one. I go through the same thing when I see people talk about Mike Glennon.

These are the games I viewed within the last couple weeks on Paxton Lynch, as well as breakdowns from other guys whom I respect. 

http://draftbreakdown.com/?s=paxton+lynch

 

If these are the games that you saw then we're pretty much on the same page, just with different opinions. If you watched his games live, happened to watch all his games during the season or you have for subscription college package that allows you to watch games like Game Rewind then I'll have to admit you got me there. 

 

My perspective on Lynch comes from watching 11 games from 2015 and 1 from 2014, similar to how my perspective of Glennon comes from watching 19 regular season games and about 10 preseason games. 

 

Like you said, we'll find out in less than 24 hours whether we'll be calling him a bust in 8 months or not. If he's a Jet I'll support him though.

[artemusclyde]

7 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

I actually think if he can get his confidence back, big if.  Hackenberg is the most pro ready QB in this draft.

Hardly, confidence isn't his problem. Problem is he's inaccurate as hell, routinely struggling with things such as throwing a screen pass.

[artemusclyde]

1 hour ago, drdetroit said:

Lynch is not a good prospect.  He's a worse version of Mariota or Kaepernick.

He's a good prospect, but he should be valued as a 2nd rounder. Has the same wonky throwing motion as Kaepernick without his speed and a weaker arm. 

[win4ever]

It's an interesting thought, but I think there are several reasons.

1.  We're desperate as a fan base for a star QB.  We see other teams have studs, ergo we feel as if we're due for one as well.  However, drafting a QB doesn't just require skill, it needs some luck.  Most famous example is ofcourse Manning in the year we had the No. 1 pick.  If he comes out, and follows the same career path, then we suck in the Andrew Luck draft.  If you move up a year because Manning would have played an extra year therefore would have been injured a year earlier in theory, we suck in the great draft of 2011. 

2.  When you are desperate, you are willing to overlook the bad signs and zone in on the good ones.  It's often why widows and people barely scraping by are more susceptible to con jobs than the general population.  It's human nature to see something, and hope you have found the solution.  I'm sure 90% of the crowd here would be going ga-ga over Goff and dismissing Lynch if we had the first pick.  However, since we don't, Lynch is still attractive enough to hang our coats on. 

3.  Lynch is an intriguing prospect in himself.  He has potential, there are things he can do that you can build on.  However, to me Lynch is a flawed prospect right now that has potential.  To me, he's a high fastball guy, immense talent, but he needs to develop other throws to be dominant.  If he ever did so, then he's a legit franchise guy.  At the same time, prospects don't make great adjustments jumping from Memphis to the AFC East and playing the first year, so as you mentioned he is someone that has to sit a year to get comfortable.  It's not just the system that he needs to get away from, but I think his approach to throws need to change as well.  

My theory has been to stock up on potential in this draft, and go all in on Watson next year.  There are plenty of teams that tank for years to get a good QB, and I think next year is the year to do it.  I don't subscribe to the theory that there are studs all over for the QB field on years we're picking low.  The risk is not worth it, because Lynch isn't going to help us this year.  The defenses we'll be facing, the adjustments he has to make. and the transition to the NFL means it's a bad year for us.  I'd rather take that bad year, and invest in someone like Watson than take the risk on Lynch.  

As a Knicks fan, I've seen this too many times as well.  Always going for the win now, always ending up right outside the chance to get a star.  

[pdxgreen]

My hoping is that the Bills drink the Kool Aid and draft Lynch. But I doubt anybody really does. There's a good chance he drops out of the first. With Bradford going to Philly, looks like Fitz is coming back any way.

[JohnnyLV]

8 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Why do Jets fans even want this organization to draft Paxton Lynch? 

I get it, we need a QB...but why Lynch? I ask this outside of everyone's personal feelings on the kid, however, one thing that I believe we can all agree with is that he's a developmental QB. 

Why do you guys want a rookie QB that is not the most NFL ready out of the group? Jets fans have proven that generally, we have absolutely no patience. Almost no one wants to ever see Geno Smith start a game for the Jets again, and he's only a 3 year QB who's only played 2 seasons. Almost a similar situation with Mark Sanchez in terms of the fanbase disassociating themselves from him.

If we draft Paxton Lynch many Jets fans will be jumping for joy because we "finally got a franchise QB", another portion of the fanbase will say "hey, not exactly what I want, but I'll give him a chance". It'll be 2009 & 2013 all over again. If Paxton Lynch ends up the starter for the Jets this year and has a terrible year you know what will be said? The same thing we heard about every other young talent, but it will be even louder given his position. Just look at Geno. 

Jets fans dont have the patience to develop a QB, nor do you guys even want the patience. You guys want it all, and you want it right now. So again, WHY do so many Jets fans want to draft Paxton Lynch, a developmental prospect? He's not ready, yet no Jets fan will want to hear having him sit and start Geno. We all know for an absolute fact that Jetnation will not stand for starting Geno over Paxton for "development reasons". And when I say "sit him" I dont mean the bullcrap benching. You know, wait for the crowd to boo and THEN put the rookie in so its like the "fans asked for it". Im talking about taking an Aaron Rodgers type seat. The first thing a Jets fan will say is "Then why did we waste a 1st round pick on him"? And I will say to you today that this its a damn good question, because if he shows that he's not ready, he will be cast to the side by the fanbase...just like we always do, and it will ultimately be a waste of a draft pick, just like it was in 2009 and like it was in 2013. 

Why not just resign Fitzpatrick or trade for Bradford or Glennon then? Why even waste your time begging to draft this rookie QB that is obviously not ready? Everyone loves facts right, and they love to talk about what the Pundit's think. Well, the experts think that the most "NFL ready" QB in this draft is Kevin Hogan, a projected 4th rounder. He may not have the highest upside in terms of raw talent (the experts say), but he can make all the throws. One thing he does have is, the confidence of the experts that if there was EVER A ROOKIE in this draft that was NFL ready RIGHT NOW....it's him. 

So, I ask again, why draft a developmental QB with huge upside, but will most likely be labeled a bust 8 months from today over a guy who doesnt have that rocket for an arm, though stronger than what we had last year, and he understands the game and will make the right decisions with the football. Also, this isnt a pro Kevin Hogan thread, this is why I even mentioned going as far as resigning Fitz or going out and trading for Bradford or Glennon. 

Why even put yourself though wanting to draft a QB when you're not even interested in having the patience of even letting him develop? Geno Smith signed a 4 year deal and Jets fans were done with him after year 1. Sanchez signed a 5 year deal and Jets fans TRIED to be done with him after year 1 but he had a solid playoff run. Jets fans again tried to be done with him after year 2 but he had another solid playoff run....then we finally got to be done with him after year 3 because there was no playoff run for him to possibly redeem himself. 

WTF is the point, really? I'd rather see us resign Fitzpatick than the Jets drafting Lynch and have to read the nonsense that will be all over this board in 8 months if Lynch has a bad season. And you should know its bad when VTF would rather resign Fitzpatrick then deal with that nonsense. lol.

We are not interested in developing quarterbacks. We want Andrew Luck. How about we just wait for the next Andrew Luck to hit the draft instead of wasting our time with a developmental QB that we wont want on this team by December. 

To all the Lynch supporters, this isnt a shot at Lynch. I have many other threads to where I can take my shots at Lynch. This is about knowing this fanbase and knowing damn well that if he's not ready and he's thrown into the fire we're going to do the same thing we always do...bitch and moan about how much of a bust he is and how he's unsalvageable. So whats the point?

 

It's abut the next 10 years not just 2016

[Paradis]

34 minutes ago, win4ever said:

It's an interesting thought, but I think there are several reasons.

1.  We're desperate as a fan base for a star QB.  We see other teams have studs, ergo we feel as if we're due for one as well.  However, drafting a QB doesn't just require skill, it needs some luck.  Most famous example is ofcourse Manning in the year we had the No. 1 pick.  If he comes out, and follows the same career path, then we suck in the Andrew Luck draft.  If you move up a year because Manning would have played an extra year therefore would have been injured a year earlier in theory, we suck in the great draft of 2011. 

When you put it that, the last 15 years really feel like an eternity. Peyton's had time to have a whole hall of fame career - since we last had prolific QB play for the New York Jets.  

[ChuckkieB]

This is a QB driven league.  You need a franchise QB to win consistently and remain competitive year after year.  The Jets don't have a franchise QB and haven't had one in many years.  If the Jets feel that there is a franchise QB to be had in this years draft, then they have to make sure they draft him.  They swung and missed with Sanchez.  They swung and missed with Smith.  They have to keep trying until they strike gold.

[win4ever]

6 minutes ago, Paradis said:

When you put it that, the last 15 years really feel like an eternity. Peyton's had time to have a whole hall of fame career - since we last had prolific QB play for the New York Jets.  

Peyton backing out is just heartbreaking.  I didn't follow the draft then, so I wasn't that hurt, but just looking back on it is heart breaking.  In a similar fashion, Bradford backing out, elevated Stafford, which inturn elevated Sanchez for us as well.  

Although imagine how intense the rivalry between Brady/Manning would be if he was a Jet.  

[Paradis]

1 minute ago, win4ever said:

Although imagine how intense the rivalry between Brady/Manning would be if he was a Jet.  

lol, jesus... that would have made for a lifetime of pleasurable NFL Sunday memories.  

[win4ever]

17 minutes ago, Paradis said:

lol, jesus... that would have made for a lifetime of pleasurable NFL Sunday memories.  

Yeah, playoff battles would have been amazing.  

And I think the Jets would have put a better team around Peyton, because the Colts went in the tank draft-wise after Peyton got established.  Kept botching picks to the point that as soon as Peyton got hurt, they became the worst team in the league.  

[Villain The Foe]

4 hours ago, johnnysd said:

It's abut the next 10 years not just 2016

I agree, precisely why patience is a virtue.