Patriot Killa Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/60736/a-statistical-snapshot-of-jets-qb-geno-smith-that-may-blow-you-away Now Scores Schedule NFL Nation FA Tracker Draft Standings Teams Stats Chalk Transactions Photos MNF HQ Rumors Fantasy Football Odds & Info Injury Wire Power Rankings Odds QBR PickCenter Shop Tickets NFL Nation Choose Blog... NFL Nation AFC North Baltimore Ravens Cleveland Browns Cincinnati Bengals Pittsburgh Steelers AFC South Houston Texans Indianapolis Colts Jacksonville Jaguars Tennessee Titans AFC East Buffalo Bills Miami Dolphins New England Patriots New York Jets AFC West Denver Broncos Kansas City Chiefs Oakland Raiders San Diego Chargers NFC North Chicago Bears Detroit Lions Green Bay Packers Minnesota Vikings NFC South Atlanta Falcons New Orleans Saints Carolina Panthers Tampa Bay Buccaneers NFC East Dallas Cowboys New York Giants Philadelphia Eagles Washington Redskins NFC West Arizona Cardinals Los Angeles Rams San Francisco 49ers Seattle Seahawks A statistical snapshot of Jets QB Geno Smith that will surprise you Facebook Twitter Pinterest Email comment 10:08 AM CT Rich CiminiESPN Staff Writer A look at what's happening around the New York Jets: 1. Life on the Geno Coaster: The most compelling "what-if?" question surrounding Geno Smith goes something like this: What if he had better receivers in his first two seasons? It's worth examining amid the Ryan Fitzpatrickmess, because there may come a point over the next few weeks when the front office will have to ask itself a variation of the same question: Can Smith raise his game if he's throwing to quality wide receivers Eric Decker and Brandon Marshall? Smith was a below-average quarterback in 2013 and 2014, but he was surrounded in '13 by one of the worst receiving corps in recent memory. The leading receiver was Jeremy Kerley, whose running mates included immortals such as David Nelson, Kellen Winslow Jr. and Clyde Gates, all of whom are out of the league. Things were better when Decker arrived in '14, but it still was a thin group. It's an age-old debate: Do receivers make the quarterback or vice versa? There's no definitive answer, but it's safe to assume that Smith would be better with Decker and Marshall. How much better? Hard to say. He never got the chance last season because of the IK Enemkpali incident. The folks at ESPN Stats & Information provided this snapshot, showing how Smith performed with Decker and/or Kerley on the field compared to when they weren't: The numbers show that Smith played at an acceptable level when at least one of the team's top two receivers was in the game. Let's remember this about Kerley: He's not a starting-caliber receiver, but he was thrust into the role on a talent-poor roster. Marshall is a lot better than Kerley, and Chan Gailey is an upgrade over Marty Mornhinweg as a coordinator. Does this mean Smith is ready for a huge leap? Clearly, the Jets have their doubts. Otherwise, they wouldn't be still trying to re-sign Fitzpatrick. Still, it's food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A statistical snapshot of Jets QB Geno Smith that will surprise you Facebook Twitter Pinterest Email comment 10:08 AM CT Rich CiminiESPN Staff Writer A look at what's happening around the New York Jets: 1. Life on the Geno Coaster: The most compelling "what-if?" question surrounding Geno Smith goes something like this: What if he had better receivers in his first two seasons? It's worth examining amid the Ryan Fitzpatrickmess, because there may come a point over the next few weeks when the front office will have to ask itself a variation of the same question: Can Smith raise his game if he's throwing to quality wide receivers Eric Decker and Brandon Marshall? Smith was a below-average quarterback in 2013 and 2014, but he was surrounded in '13 by one of the worst receiving corps in recent memory. The leading receiver was Jeremy Kerley, whose running mates included immortals such as David Nelson, Kellen Winslow Jr. and Clyde Gates, all of whom are out of the league. Things were better when Decker arrived in '14, but it still was a thin group. It's an age-old debate: Do receivers make the quarterback or vice versa? There's no definitive answer, but it's safe to assume that Smith would be better with Decker and Marshall. How much better? Hard to say. He never got the chance last season because of the IK Enemkpali incident. The folks at ESPN Stats & Information provided this snapshot, showing how Smith performed with Decker and/or Kerley on the field compared to when they weren't: The numbers show that Smith played at an acceptable level when at least one of the team's top two receivers was in the game. Let's remember this about Kerley: He's not a starting-caliber receiver, but he was thrust into the role on a talent-poor roster. Marshall is a lot better than Kerley, and Chan Gailey is an upgrade over Marty Mornhinweg as a coordinator. Does this mean Smith is ready for a huge leap? Clearly, the Jets have their doubts. Otherwise, they wouldn't be still trying to re-sign Fitzpatrick. Still, it's food for thought.
joewilly12 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 FitzNation is not going to like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike135 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 It's scary people need to have this pointed out to them. Casual fans who watch a few games a year, I can understand. But anyone watching most games, and especially anyone on a forum should know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Why do you think Fitznatics are so terrified to see Geno get a shot with legit coaching and talent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 I had not considered this. Patriot Killa, thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlesMovement Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Fitzpatrick is finished, done, this is Genos team, Genos time. Fitzpatrick can go be a third stringer in the AFL where his water gun arm belongs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 26 minutes ago, jetrider said: Why do you think Fitznatics are so terrified to see Geno get a shot with legit coaching and talent? Because he may excel and lead this team to the playoffs then they would have to eat crow and cry in their Fitzpatrick jerseys and shave off those ridiculous beards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Jets fan Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 55 minutes ago, jetrider said: Why do you think Fitznatics are so terrified to see Geno get a shot with legit coaching and talent? We don't want to see it because we spent two years watching the crap play that's Geno Smith. Stats lie and lists use stats, I watched the QB play and saw with my eyes had bad it was. I don't ever want to see it again Did you watch the games in 2013 and 2014? I really think posters here did not watch the games. Wtf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 1 minute ago, Joe Jets fan said: We don't want to see it because we spent two years watching the crap play that's Geno Smith. Stats lie and lists use stats, I watched the QB play and saw with my eyes had bad it was. I don't ever want to see it again Did you watch the games in 2013 and 2014? I really think posters here did not watch the games. Wtf What satisfaction did you get last season 2015 ok we won 10 games we had good Sundays watched the Jets win for a change but in the end we were let down by the 1 person everyone wants to give another chance to,yet they wont give Geno Smith another chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlesMovement Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 24 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: What satisfaction did you get last season 2015 ok we won 10 games we had good Sundays watched the Jets win for a change but in the end we were let down by the 1 person everyone wants to give another chance to,yet they wont give Geno Smith another chance. That one person should rot in hell!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadetree Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 26 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: What satisfaction did you get last season 2015 ok we won 10 games we had good Sundays watched the Jets win for a change but in the end we were let down by the 1 person everyone wants to give another chance to,yet they wont give Geno Smith another chance. If Genos problem was one pass at the end of a 10-6 season, in which he threw 31 TDs, I might want to give him another chance. But, we both know, Genos problems run much deeper than that and Genos problems don't easily present themselves on stat sheets. You like Geno to start the year, joe willy, I get it. Might as well start looking now at top 5 talent in the 2017 draft if he starts 16 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 I think the inevitable scenario is forming. Gene starts the season. Gene gets his block knocked off while failing to step out of bounds on a scramble. Hack starts. Hack loses a lot but shows something. Season over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 23 minutes ago, Shadetree said: If Genos problem was one pass at the end of a 10-6 season, in which he threw 31 TDs, I might want to give him another chance. But, we both know, Genos problems run much deeper than that and Genos problems don't easily present themselves on stat sheets. You like Geno to start the year, joe willy, I get it. Might as well start looking now at top 5 talent in the 2017 draft if he starts 16 games. How about 3 passes in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 I've indeed considered this. I showed similar comparisons from Geno's 2014 season, his first 8 games with an injured Decker and his last 6 games with an injured Decker and a new Harvin. The statistics showed that based on the talent around him on the field Geno is a much more efficient QB. Unfortunately this will probably end talking about $600 and "tool pics". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said: I've indeed considered this. I showed similar comparisons from Geno's 2014 season, his first 8 games with an injured Decker and his last 6 games with an injured Decker and a new Harvin. The statistics showed that based on the talent around him on the field Geno is a much more efficient QB. Unfortunately this will probably end talking about $600 and "tool pics". Harvin wasn't what he used to be when he signed with the Jets and Rex didnt know how to use him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadetree Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: How about 3 passes in the end. <heavy sigh> you get the point. how about this angle on this endless debate.... Say Fitz clearly outplays Geno in August. Say fitz only slightly out plays him? But Bowles says after week 3 of preseason, "Fitz is the starter." Would you still want Geno? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Just now, Shadetree said: <heavy sigh> you get the point. how about this angle on this endless debate.... Say Fitz clearly outplays Geno in August. Say fitz only slightly out plays him? But Bowles says after week 3 of preseason, "Fitz is the starter." Would you still want Geno? I have gone on record a million times as saying I will support whoever the NY Jets line up over center as QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 14 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: Harvin wasn't what he used to be when he signed with the Jets and Rex didnt know how to use him. On top of the fact that he came in mid season. There was no chemistry and he didnt even know the playbook. I remember when it came out that the coaching staff was telling Smith that on certain plays Geno needs to throw it to Harvin. THIS is how Rex Ryan and his coaching staff was developing their quarterback. lol. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000424725/article/jets-coaches-predetermined-throws-for-geno-smith Jets coaches predetermined throws for Geno Smith 79 By Kevin Patra Around the NFL writer Published: Nov. 9, 2014 at 09:13 a.m. Updated: Nov. 9, 2014 at 11:27 a.m. Geno Smith will sit on the bench for just the second game of his career Sunday when the New York Jets host the Pittsburgh Steelers. The quarterback was yanked in Week 8 after throwing three terrible picks and was inactive last week against the Kansas City Chiefs. While the front office is still invested in its second-round pick and wants to know whether he can be the future franchise quarterback, NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport said on NFL GameDay First that there is a fear that coaches might have stunted Smith's growth by dictating the quarterback's reads. "Usually a quarterback is able to drop back, go through his reads then deliver the ball. I am told that Geno Smith was informed of his reads, told, 'You need to throw the ball here on certain plays,'" Rapoport said. "The most egregious example came on an interception on a pass intended for Percy Harvin that Stephon Gilmore, the Bills corner, picked off. Smith was told; 'This is where you need to throw the ball.' And obviously, for a quarterback who is now taking a breather last game and this game, may have hurt his development a little bit." It's certainly an indictment on Smith's growth that coaches didn't trust him enough to make the proper reads. However, it's an even bigger indictment on a coaching staff that would insist on predetermining reads and throws pre-snap. The approach also partially explains why Smith seemed to regress this season. Rex Ryan and his staff appear on the way out after an 1-8 start, and, while we love Ryan as a defensive play-caller, he has never quite gotten the offensive side figured out. The latest Around The NFL Podcast previews every Week 10 game and recaps the Browns' blowout win over the Bengals. Find more Around The NFL content on NFL NOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Rex Ryan era here 2 AFC Championship game chokes... I wish Brandon Jacobs would have kicked his ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shuler82 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said: I've indeed considered this. I showed similar comparisons from Geno's 2014 season, his first 8 games with an injured Decker and his last 6 games with an injured Decker and a new Harvin. The statistics showed that based on the talent around him on the field Geno is a much more efficient QB. Unfortunately this will probably end talking about $600 and "tool pics". Last off season I was on your side. I thought Geno deserved a chance with some legit weapons, and was roundly ridiculed by the usual suspects. Then training camp hit, and the reports were pretty amazing. On the field Geno seemed to be putting it together. Then IK hit, and the story about Geno and the locker room started coming out, and you realize that a guy who's not respected or liked by his team is going to have a hard time leading the team. This was only enforced once Fitz came in, showed a veteran's poise, and turned into a guy who you could tell the players genuinely like. And Geno's boneheaded decision making is never going to help. Against the Raiders, I thought Geno played fantastic for a guy who was coming in cold - who had never even played in a preseason game with the starters- but then the final few minutes happen and his football IQ is exposed. (once again) Based on the verbiage that's been coming from the Jets camp all off season, I'd be shocked if they enter the preseason with him as their guy. It's a worst case scenario for them, and one I don't think they envisioned back in January. If this does play out - and it might, because Macc isn't going to give Fitz anything close to what he's asking for- the question becomes - if Geno plays well, when does the locker room come around? And if he doesn't, which young QB are you ruining by throwing him into the fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike135 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 8 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said: On top of the fact that he came in mid season. There was no chemistry and he didnt even know the playbook. I remember when it came out that the coaching staff was telling Smith that on certain plays Geno needs to throw it to Harvin. THIS is how Rex Ryan was developing his quarterback. lol. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000424725/article/jets-coaches-predetermined-throws-for-geno-smith Villain, man we see you belive Geno can succeed, but coaches, schemes, experience and surrounding talent have nothing to do with how a QB performs. The sooner you, other fans and Macc realize this, the sooner we can dump this waste of a QB and move on with mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 1 minute ago, Mike135 said: Villain, man we see you belive Geno can succeed, but coaches, schemes, experience and surrounding talent have nothing to do with how a QB performs. The sooner you, other fans and Macc realize this, the sooner we can dump this waste of a QB and move on with mediocrity. If you honestly believe that then there's nothing that I can say to you that would correct that problem. We'll see about that. He's not a rookie and a regressed 2nd year player with no talent and incompetent coaches anymore. If Geno is the starter this year then we'll see if this point of yours holds any water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike135 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said: If you honestly believe that then there's nothing that I can say to you that would correct that problem. We'll see about that. He's not a rookie and a regressed 2nd year player with no talent and incompetent coaches anymore. If Geno is the starter this year then we'll see if this point of yours holds any water. You may have just one-upped me on my attempt at @BowlesMovement type sarcasm, but I'm not risking the public humiliation. I know Geno is gonna kill it this season. To knock him for the situation he was put in his first two seasons is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlesMovement Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Just now, Mike135 said: You may have just one-upped me on my attempt at @BowlesMovement type sarcasm, but I'm not risking the public humiliation. I know Geno is gonna kill it this season. To knock him for the situation he was put in his first two seasons is ridiculous. I told you, no sarcasm. Joewilly12 is the smartest person I have encountered, when he talks, I listen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 22 minutes ago, shuler82 said: Last off season I was on your side. I thought Geno deserved a chance with some legit weapons, and was roundly ridiculed by the usual suspects. Then training camp hit, and the reports were pretty amazing. On the field Geno seemed to be putting it together. Then IK hit, and the story about Geno and the locker room started coming out, and you realize that a guy who's not respected or liked by his team is going to have a hard time leading the team. This was only enforced once Fitz came in, showed a veteran's poise, and turned into a guy who you could tell the players genuinely like. And Geno's boneheaded decision making is never going to help. Against the Raiders, I thought Geno played fantastic for a guy who was coming in cold - who had never even played in a preseason game with the starters- but then the final few minutes happen and his football IQ is exposed. (once again) Based on the verbiage that's been coming from the Jets camp all off season, I'd be shocked if they enter the preseason with him as their guy. It's a worst case scenario for them, and one I don't think they envisioned back in January. If this does play out - and it might, because Macc isn't going to give Fitz anything close to what he's asking for- the question becomes - if Geno plays well, when does the locker room come around? And if he doesn't, which young QB are you ruining by throwing him into the fire? Every fan has their opinion. They're not in the locker room. One punch from one guy doesnt mean 51 other guys have a problem with Geno. We can surely spin it that way. But at the end of the day Bowles got rid of IK and as of now Bowles has Geno as the starter. Add to the fact that Macc is refusing to move on his contract number for Fitz and I think that the opinions that I hear from fans should be respected as...opinions. If (im saying if) Geno has a great year then this time next year the outlook will be vastly different from you guys just like it was with Fitz last season, generally speaking. I thought that Geno should get a shot last year and I still hold that position. I dont care about that "i like you/dont like you" nonsense. We're adults. We go to our jobs and work with people, some who we dont like...maybe not even respect. But when it comes to getting the job done im a team player, personal feelings go out the window. Sure, Fitz came in and showed veteran poise, because he's a veteran. You expect veteran poise from veterans. Now that Fitz showed "how to be a veteran" now its Geno's turn now that he's a 4 year pro which this time next year will officially make him a veteran given that he wont be on a rookie contract. Bottomline, its all opinion. As of right now Geno is going to get a shot to prove people wrong, either his supporters or the naysayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, Mike135 said: You may have just one-upped me on my attempt at @BowlesMovement type sarcasm, but I'm not risking the public humiliation. I know Geno is gonna kill it this season. To knock him for the situation he was put in his first two seasons is ridiculous. My bad, I didnt catch the sarcasm there. I was worried there for a second. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sveusb Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Last season Ryan Fitzpatrick had QBR of 88.0. Geno Smith Played in one game against Oakland. His QBR was 87.9 in that game. The performances of these quarterbacks were essentially equal with the personnel last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeJet22 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 42 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said: If you honestly believe that then there's nothing that I can say to you that would correct that problem. We'll see about that. He's not a rookie and a regressed 2nd year player with no talent and incompetent coaches anymore. If Geno is the starter this year then we'll see if this point of yours holds any water. zoom. something just flew over yer head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 11 minutes ago, sveusb said: Last season Ryan Fitzpatrick had QBR of 88.0. Geno Smith Played in one game against Oakland. His QBR was 87.9 in that game. The performances of these quarterbacks were essentially equal with the personnel last season. Even if you extrapolate out TD's, Int's, yards etc...They are very similar... With that said, I think most people understand you really can't compare one game with 15 - But the interesting thing is that Fitz supporters/Geno haters use the Raider game to point out how bad Geno was - that he had his chance and failed with it. Which is patently false...His numbers were Fitz like and ultimately the defense cost the Jets the game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: Even if you extrapolate out TD's, Int's, yards etc...They are very similar... With that said, I think most people understand you really can't compare one game with 15 - But the interesting thing is that Fitz supporters/Geno haters use the Raider game to point out how bad Geno was - that he had his chance and failed with it. Which is patently false...His numbers were Fitz like and ultimately the defense cost the Jets the game... Fitz threw 3 INTs costing us the game and the playoffs against the Bills Geno throws 3 picks in a meaningless game and we should cut him LOL FitzNation keeping me laughing daily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 38 minutes ago, YankeeJet22 said: zoom. something just flew over yer head. Sure as heck did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 5 hours ago, joewilly12 said: FitzNation is not going to like this. You mean FitzNutz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 4 hours ago, BowlesMovement said: Fitzpatrick is finished, done, this is Genos team, Genos time. Fitzpatrick can go be a third stringer in the AFL where his water gun arm belongs I really want to give you a positive rep, but then I remember this is nothing but sarcasm on your part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 3 hours ago, Joe Jets fan said: We don't want to see it because we spent two years watching the crap play that's Geno Smith. Stats lie and lists use stats, I watched the QB play and saw with my eyes had bad it was. I don't ever want to see it again Did you watch the games in 2013 and 2014? I really think posters here did not watch the games. Wtf Lets examine how much of a garbage this post really is. In 2013, his starting WRs were Holmes and Hills. Combined, they started 22 games (11 each) in 2013. They both have a combined total of 8 receptions in the last 2 years (none for Hill of course and 8 for Holmes in 2014). Holmes is already out of the league and Hill was on the practice squad. Did I mention Geno was a rookie just like Hackenberg is right now? In 2014, he had Decker and David Nelson as his starters in the first 7 games. And a day after trading for Harvin, he became his #1 target in wk 8 I believe. He through 3 picks in that first game with Harvin in there with zero timing. Without practice (timing), even Brady cant be Brady if hes given ZERO reps with a headache of a receiver in Harvin. So that brings us to the last 6 games of the year, which Im sure you didn't watch anyways since you were probably on the Seahawks bandwagon by then. So WTF back at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 2 hours ago, Shadetree said: <heavy sigh> you get the point. how about this angle on this endless debate.... Say Fitz clearly outplays Geno in August. Say fitz only slightly out plays him? But Bowles says after week 3 of preseason, "Fitz is the starter." Would you still want Geno? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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