Geno Smith's 2014 Stats in "Context".

[Beerfish]

18 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You can tell me all you want that the 12 mil has no effect down the road, you don't know that.  Someone will have to be restructured or cut will be made.  Every move has an effect.  Get a rash of injuries to a position and fill the wholes left behind and being up against the cap means you either don't make a move(s) or make half moves.  

Of course that's all great if Geno plays as well or close to what Fitz would give you.  And if that assumption is true, then what's the reason to bring Fitz in?  What do we need two QBs if both play reasonably similar football?  Because...we're able to?  I'm not saying Genos a better QB.  Just think we're not going to notice a drop off by saving the money it takes to bring Fitz back

And in the end this is basically the whole argument we have had the last 6 months.  Can Geno perform pretty well as good as Fitz?  If so then no reason to sign fitz.  If a person thinks they are really close then you let Fitz go, but many here simply don;t think Geno is close as far as overall QB play.  And the Jets are one of the parties that think this otherwise they would have moved on from Fitzpatrick long ago.

[Warfish]

12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You can tell me all you want that the 12 mil has no effect down the road, you don't know that.  Someone will have to be restructured or cut will be made.

Restructure doesn't cause any harm.  And no, 12 mil will not require anyone of any real value to be cut.

12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Every move has an effect.  Get a rash of injuries to a position and fill the wholes left behind and being up against the cap means you either don't make a move(s) or make half moves.  

Get a "rash on injuries" and your season is over regardless.  Plugging in a late season fill-in street Free Agent rarely works, i.e. Percy Harvin, right?

If we have injuries, the roster Macc has built will have to "next man up".  That's how this league works.

12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Of course that's all great if Geno plays as well or close to what Fitz would give you.

Which is, of course, the largest and most core disagreement on JN.  

12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 And if that assumption is true, then what's the reason to bring Fitz in?

And if that assumption is false, bringing in Fitz is the only proper course of action for a playoff-level talented team who expects to contend in 2016.

12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 What do we need two QBs if both play reasonably similar football?  Because...we're able to?  I'm not saying Genos a better QB.  Just think we're not going to notice a drop off by saving the money it takes to bring Fitz back

And I'm saying that Geno is not going to produce "reasonably similar football" to Fitz.

Your position is reasonable only in a situation where Geno can be relied upon to produce equal-level play or at worst a very minor, non-material, dropoff.  

Again, this is the core disagreement.  Most of those who prefer Fitz do not believe Geno is capable of equivalent performance and production.  Geno fans, of ocurse, think Geno will match or exceed any possible Fitz season.  

Hence our disagreement.  At the end of the day, we have to all trust Macc knows whats best, one way or the other.  He'll be judged by how it all plays out, it's his jop on the line.

 

 

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Restructure doesn't cause any harm.  And no, 12 mil will not require anyone of any real value to be cut.

Get a "rash on injuries" and your season is over regardless.  Plugging in a late season fill-in street Free Agent rarely works, i.e. Percy Harvin, right?

If we have injuries, the roster Macc has built will have to "next man up".  That's how this league works.

Which is, of course, the largest and most core disagreement on JN.  

And if that assumption is false, bringing in Fitz is the only proper course of action for a playoff-level talented team who expects to contend in 2016.

And I'm saying that Geno is not going to produce "reasonably similar football" to Fitz.

Your position is reasonable only in a situation where Geno can be relied upon to produce equal-level play or at worst a very minor, non-material, dropoff.  

Again, this is the core disagreement.  Most of those who prefer Fitz do not believe Geno is capable of equivalent performance and production.  Geno fans, of ocurse, think Geno will match or exceed any possible Fitz season.  

Hence our disagreement.  At the end of the day, we have to all trust Macc knows whats best, one way or the other.  He'll be judged by how it all plays out, it's his jop on the line.

 

 

Restructuring can cause issues down the road.  No one is differing money without a bonus payout in son way.  

But it's all meaningless, again, I'm running under the assumption that there won't be a drop off.  They both will produce similarly at the end of the season.  And you don't, that's cool, we're entitled to our opinions.  Let's just hope whoever gets the job there isn't a dropoff whether it's Fitz or Geno.

And that Hackenberg develops into a stud QB

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, whodeawhodat said:

nah, not going to go back and look up all the times you said we weren't going to win more than 6 games.  You know you spammed it often.  Fitz sucks but he accounted for how many TDs last year?  oooookaaaayyy

You won't look it up because it isn't there to find. People who make statements like that should be able to easily support the statement by showing proof since I "spammed it so often". Anything outside of proving it won't receive a response. It should be easy, right?

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

Emo.

Sicher Darwin. 

[Villain The Foe]

56 minutes ago, slats said:

I can't believe I read this whole thread. 

@Villain The Foe and @Integrity28 : Please stop. Thank you. 

I'll leave it alone. 

[whodeawhodat]

24 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

You won't look it up because it isn't there to find. People who make statements like that should be able to easily support the statement by showing proof since I "spammed it so often". Anything outside of proving it won't receive a response. It should be easy, right?

you know it, I know it.  Where it now says "1 of only 4... or 5." under your user name was a counter last year that would change with every win over 6 games last year. 

[Villain The Foe]

27 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

you know it, I know it.  Where it now says "1 of only 4... or 5." under your user name was a counter last year that would change with every win over 6 games last year. 

You're an arse, my statement under my username stems from a poster here saying "there are 4 or 5 guys here who make this forum unreadable with their Geno Support". My response was "I am 1 of only 4....or 5" which was put up about 2 months ago. Secondly, here's the actual thread of my statement, written on November 22nd....3 MONTHS after the start of the season. The Jets already had 5 wins (5-5 record) during this time, and I specifically stated that the excuses for a guy who has won a max of 6 games in a season needs to stop. And even in the thread I never said that "he will only win 6 games", I never said "The Jets will only win 6 games",  I said that he's never won more than 6 games because he falters every year. And I was right, go look at week 17 and watch as he faltered as well as how the excuses rolled out for this guy up to this day, yet Geno gets overly criticized for a 270 yard, 2 TD, 65% comp performance coming off the bench against the Raiders. So as you can see, not only did I not say it, I didnt say in on Nov. 22nd when I made the thread and I never said it during the offseason given that FITZ WASNT THE STARTER during the offseason and that 1 of only 4....or 5 was directed to the person who knew WTF I was talking about.

Yet another example of people talking about things they have no clue about. 

 

You're reaching for the stars yet keep finding yourself in the dirt. Dismissed. 

[ljr]

7 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Might as well throw 2015 in there as well. But of course you're going to ignore the fact when Its Fitz right? Okay, let me prove how you're ignoring it. 

#1. Jets vs Bills week 10. Fitz on 2 min drive down by less than a TD throws a "walk-off INT" on 1st and 10 to end the the game against an AFC team competing for the same playoff spot as us, as well as his former team.

 #2. Jets vs Texans week 11. With exactly 2:00 mins left on 1st and 15 on our 29 yard line down by 1 score threw a "walk-off INT" to end the game against an AFC rival and former team. 

#3. Jets vs Eagles week 3. Fitz with less than 4 mins to go in the 4th qtr. down by a score threw his 3rd TD of the game. 

#4. Jets vs Bills week 17. Fitz with less than 1 min left down by a score throws his 3rd INT of the 4th quarter on 3rd and 1 which was another "walk-off int" for Fitz and the Jets, the 3rd time against an AFC team/rival and former team, with this performance ENDING OUR SEASON.

Now back to Geno.

I have, and not only is Geno undefeated in week 17 games, but in the Raiders game where he took those bad sacks and was in a 4th and 20 situation with less than 4mins left....he completed a 21 yard pass to Decker to convert the 4th down and keep the drive alive. If you weren't busy hating you would have known that. You would have also known that the Jets defense gave up the most points to the Raiders than any other team last season, which includes ALL THOSE GAMES above of Fitzpatrick losing in the last minutes because he and that "top 10 offense" could only produce 17 f'ing points in all 4 of those games above. Meanwhile the Jets defense held each of those opponents to 24 points or less, not a season high 34 points.

 

Too easy, hater. 

First off ... WTF are you responding to ? 

McCorky21 & I were just having a loving conversation with each other.

regarding Geno's stats ... & why don't I throw 2015 in as well ... I did chief! That's what the Oak game was ... Geno's entire 2015 performance.

 

after that it looks like you try to change the subject from Geno's entire NFL career of pitiful performances to focus on Fitz.

ok by me:

i'm not going to waste my time reviews the games you point out as poor ... I will assume you are being accurate.

let me ask you this, after the Houston game how did he play in the next 5 games with the season hanging by a thread?

answer - he played well & beat Miami, NYG, Tenn, Cowboys, & the Cheats ... Keeping the season alive.

Fitz has plenty of $h*t performances ... He also has plenty of above average performances as well

 Geno has only $h*t performances

 

i'll have to go over that Raiders game again when I have more time to argue the minutia of it ... Bottom line though was Geno choked on 2 drives with the game on the line in the closing minutes

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, ljr said:

First off ... WTF are you responding to ? 

McCorky21 & I were just having a loving conversation with each other.

regarding Geno's stats ... & why don't I throw 2015 in as well ... I did chief! That's what the Oak game was ... Geno's entire 2015 performance.

 

after that it looks like you try to change the subject from Geno's entire NFL career of pitiful performances to focus on Fitz.

ok by me:

i'm not going to waste my time reviews the games you point out as poor ... I will assume you are being accurate.

let me ask you this, after the Houston game how did he play in the next 5 games with the season hanging by a thread?

answer - he played well & beat Miami, NYG, Tenn, Cowboys, & the Cheats ... Keeping the season alive.

Fitz has plenty of $h*t performances ... He also has plenty of above average performances as well

 Geno has only $h*t performances

 

i'll have to go over that Raiders game again when I have more time to argue the minutia of it ... Bottom line though was Geno choked on 2 drives with the game on the line in the closing minutes

This response is lame, let me prove it. 

 

Geno has only sh*tty performances? 

Check week 17 in 2014, or his game against atlanta as a rookie, or his game against the Packers that the coaching staff sabotaged. Matter of fact, dont check it....just take my word that im being accurate. 

Im done with you. 

 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Im done with you. 

You should slow down.  

With all the "owning" you think you're doing, and all the posters you're "done with", you'll have nobody left to respond to soon if you're not careful.

Might want to save some of that passion and energy for when camp starts.  After all, I get the feeling they'll be lots to talk about then.

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, Warfish said:

You should slow down.  

With all the "owning" you think you're doing, and all the posters you're "done with", you'll have nobody left to respond to soon if you're not careful.

Might want to save some of that passion and energy for when camp starts.  After all, I get the feeling they'll be lots to talk about then.

Im never done owning you Warfish!  

[Warfish]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

Im never done owning you Warfish!  

Yes, I know because you keep repeating it to yourself over and over and over.

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, Warfish said:

Yes, I know because you keep repeating it to yourself over and over and over.

It's real in my mind sir! lol. 

[Warfish]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

It's real in my mind sir! lol. 

Hard for me to argue that.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

42 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Hard for me to argue that.

Which makes it sort of like everything else.

[ljr]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

This response is lame, let me prove it. 

 

Geno has only sh*tty performances? 

Check week 17 in 2014, or his game against atlanta as a rookie, or his game against the Packers that the coaching staff sabotaged. Matter of fact, dont check it....just take my word that im being accurate. 

Im done with you. 

 

I'm sure you can find a drive that Browning Nagle did well on or a game Ryan Leaf had a good statistical performance as well.

how about a 5 game stretch for either of them or Geno?

unfortunately for you all 3 of them s*ck it ... And all evidence to this point says so.

most Genophiles at least try to find excuses to blame his performance up til now on ... And say please - please - please ... He deserves another chance!

you are just cruising along on the good ship "Deny the Truth" sounding just like the Pats fans insisting they didn't cheat , it was a set up, Goodell is out to get them ... Lol , look out for that iceberg Cap'n !

[win4ever]

8 hours ago, AFJF said:

Sanchez had a much better defense and running game.  If Fitz were gifted the no. 1 defense and ground game, the Jets win 14 games easily IMO.

Sanchez had a better defense and running game for sure.  However, Fitz had by far a better receiving corps, thus the improvement in statistics that directly correlate to his performance is tied to Marshall/Decker.   Fitz also had a better system to run, as I think we can agree Shottenheimer hasn't exactly done much besides having a famous father.   

They had the No. 2 defense in the league, No. 1 rusher in the league, and the No. 1 WR duo (this can be arguable, Denver makes a good case, Jaguars as well) in the league.  I don't like to account team wins as something that is QB specific, if he has such a strong supporting cast.  Denver won the SB last year, and I think we can all agree their QB play was sub-par.  No one would assume adding Peyton Manning to their team this year automatically makes them a SB contender.  In a smaller fashion, Fitz performed better because the team surrounding him was excellent.  

I think with Sanchez, a lot of the argument was team success, and it's the same thing again with Fitz.  Team went from 4 to 10 wins, so Fitz must have been great.  I feel as if most QBs (including Geno) could have improved the team last year, because of the talent upgrade (Revis, Williams, improvement from Pryor on defense, Marshall and a healthy Decker on offense) plus the easier schedule adds up in the end.  

5 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Except its not much like Sanchezt.  Sanchez took sacks, fumbled the ball away, had awful turnover ratios, had awful redzone efficiency and didn't produce enough points on a consistent basis.

Special teams were an utter joke last year.  Our oline was hardly probowl material.  The defense for all of it's high ratings is what cost us at least a couple of games.

 

I do agree about your point of having a team (and system) in which the limited vet QB could thrive.  But that is what we have been screaming for for years, just give us a guy that can control things and not give games away on a consistent basis, Fitzpatrick did better than that.

In any case the Jets are pooched because once again, as always we have no true quality starting QB.  No one on the roster, not Fitz and no one we can go out and get at this time.

 

 

I think this is where being a tortured Knicks fan hinders me.  What is the point of mediocrity?  We won 10 games last year, yet I feel empty about the season because I know the success of Fitz isn't sustainable.  Signing and starting him seems like a Knicks way of thinking, always going for the short term improvement over the long term answers.  I'd rather let Geno enter the fire, and thrive or burn, because we're not going to be consistent contenders until we find a good QB who is also young.  If Geno burns, you draft another one and hope he's the answer, rinse and repeat.  I'd rather be horrible for a few years and find the right QB, than a guy that's projected to get us 7-8 wins, and a magical season means just missing the playoffs.   

In turn, I don't think Fitz leads us anywhere but mediocrity.  We had the best set of circumstances last year with health, schedule, and performance and we still screwed it up.  I don't expect us to stay as healthy, nor is the schedule that easy.  I expect a step back from Fitz (especially considering his record against good defenses) this year.  I don't expect Geno to light it up or make the Pro Bowl or something crazy like that.  However, he does fit the system better and he's a free agent.  I would like to know if he can do well in this system, or if we can move onto other QBs.  

[AFJF]

Just now, win4ever said:

Sanchez had a better defense and running game for sure.  However, Fitz had by far a better receiving corps, thus the improvement in statistics that directly correlate to his performance is tied to Marshall/Decker.   Fitz also had a better system to run, as I think we can agree Shottenheimer hasn't exactly done much besides having a famous father.   

They had the No. 2 defense in the league, No. 1 rusher in the league, and the No. 1 WR duo (this can be arguable, Denver makes a good case, Jaguars as well) in the league.  I don't like to account team wins as something that is QB specific, if he has such a strong supporting cast.  Denver won the SB last year, and I think we can all agree their QB play was sub-par.  No one would assume adding Peyton Manning to their team this year automatically makes them a SB contender.  In a smaller fashion, Fitz performed better because the team surrounding him was excellent.  

I think with Sanchez, a lot of the argument was team success, and it's the same thing again with Fitz.  Team went from 4 to 10 wins, so Fitz must have been great.  I feel as if most QBs (including Geno) could have improved the team last year, because of the talent upgrade (Revis, Williams, improvement from Pryor on defense, Marshall and a healthy Decker on offense) plus the easier schedule adds up in the end.  

I think this is where being a tortured Knicks fan hinders me.  What is the point of mediocrity?  We won 10 games last year, yet I feel empty about the season because I know the success of Fitz isn't sustainable.  Signing and starting him seems like a Knicks way of thinking, always going for the short term improvement over the long term answers.  I'd rather let Geno enter the fire, and thrive or burn, because we're not going to be consistent contenders until we find a good QB who is also young.  If Geno burns, you draft another one and hope he's the answer, rinse and repeat.  I'd rather be horrible for a few years and find the right QB, than a guy that's projected to get us 7-8 wins, and a magical season means just missing the playoffs.   

In turn, I don't think Fitz leads us anywhere but mediocrity.  We had the best set of circumstances last year with health, schedule, and performance and we still screwed it up.  I don't expect us to stay as healthy, nor is the schedule that easy.  I expect a step back from Fitz (especially considering his record against good defenses) this year.  I don't expect Geno to light it up or make the Pro Bowl or something crazy like that.  However, he does fit the system better and he's a free agent.  I would like to know if he can do well in this system, or if we can move onto other QBs.  

They almost went to the SB with a QB who threw 12 TD's...Fitz throws double that easily in that offense.  An extra 12 TD's would go a loooong way.

 

[ljr]

8 minutes ago, win4ever said:

Sanchez had a better defense and running game for sure.  However, Fitz had by far a better receiving corps, thus the improvement in statistics that directly correlate to his performance is tied to Marshall/Decker.   Fitz also had a better system to run, as I think we can agree Shottenheimer hasn't exactly done much besides having a famous father.   

They had the No. 2 defense in the league, No. 1 rusher in the league, and the No. 1 WR duo (this can be arguable, Denver makes a good case, Jaguars as well) in the league.  I don't like to account team wins as something that is QB specific, if he has such a strong supporting cast.  Denver won the SB last year, and I think we can all agree their QB play was sub-par.  No one would assume adding Peyton Manning to their team this year automatically makes them a SB contender.  In a smaller fashion, Fitz performed better because the team surrounding him was excellent.  

I think with Sanchez, a lot of the argument was team success, and it's the same thing again with Fitz.  Team went from 4 to 10 wins, so Fitz must have been great.  I feel as if most QBs (including Geno) could have improved the team last year, because of the talent upgrade (Revis, Williams, improvement from Pryor on defense, Marshall and a healthy Decker on offense) plus the easier schedule adds up in the end.  

I think this is where being a tortured Knicks fan hinders me.  What is the point of mediocrity?  We won 10 games last year, yet I feel empty about the season because I know the success of Fitz isn't sustainable.  Signing and starting him seems like a Knicks way of thinking, always going for the short term improvement over the long term answers.  I'd rather let Geno enter the fire, and thrive or burn, because we're not going to be consistent contenders until we find a good QB who is also young.  If Geno burns, you draft another one and hope he's the answer, rinse and repeat.  I'd rather be horrible for a few years and find the right QB, than a guy that's projected to get us 7-8 wins, and a magical season means just missing the playoffs.   

In turn, I don't think Fitz leads us anywhere but mediocrity.  We had the best set of circumstances last year with health, schedule, and performance and we still screwed it up.  I don't expect us to stay as healthy, nor is the schedule that easy.  I expect a step back from Fitz (especially considering his record against good defenses) this year.  I don't expect Geno to light it up or make the Pro Bowl or something crazy like that.  However, he does fit the system better and he's a free agent.  I would like to know if he can do well in this system, or if we can move onto other QBs.  

This is the line I'm curious about

"  I feel as if most QBs (including Geno) could have improved the team last year, because of the talent upgrade "

do you believe Geno would have been able to pull off a 6 game improvement swing?

if you do, are you able to accept that Todd Bowles does not?

[win4ever]

3 minutes ago, AFJF said:

They almost went to the SB with a QB who threw 12 TD's...Fitz throws double that easily in that offense.  An extra 12 TD's would go a loooong way.

 

I'm not sure, are we talking about the same age, or just transplanting Fitz from last year into the 2009 offense?  

Because Fitz in his first two seasons of playing (spanning 4 years) of about 500 passes, threw for 12 TDs and 17 INTs.   

I'm guessing you mean the Fitz from last year, and that might be true.  However, in the same sense, if given a pick between Sanchez or Fitz right now, I would take Fitz as well.  However, if you assume that better weapons and systems do have an impression on statistics, Sanchez's stats the last two seasons are somewhat similar to Fitz's from last year.  

Sanchez:  86 rating, Fitz:  88

Sanchez: 233 YPG, Fitz:  244

Sanchez:  4.5 TD %, Fitz:  5.5

Sanchez:  3.8 INT%, Fitz:  2.7%

Fitz is better, but I'm not sure he's double the stats better though.  

[AFJF]

Just now, win4ever said:

I'm not sure, are we talking about the same age, or just transplanting Fitz from last year into the 2009 offense?  

Because Fitz in his first two seasons of playing (spanning 4 years) of about 500 passes, threw for 12 TDs and 17 INTs.   

I'm guessing you mean the Fitz from last year, and that might be true.  However, in the same sense, if given a pick between Sanchez or Fitz right now, I would take Fitz as well.  However, if you assume that better weapons and systems do have an impression on statistics, Sanchez's stats the last two seasons are somewhat similar to Fitz's from last year.  

Sanchez:  86 rating, Fitz:  88

Sanchez: 233 YPG, Fitz:  244

Sanchez:  4.5 TD %, Fitz:  5.5

Sanchez:  3.8 INT%, Fitz:  2.7%

Fitz is better, but I'm not sure he's double the stats better though.  

I meant 2009 Fitz in 2009.  Yes, he was older and more experienced than Sanchez, but his career numbers tell us he's a better player.  Hell, the fact that an NFL team wants him to start tells us he's better than Fitz.  Sanchez won some playoff games because those teams were good enough to carry him.

Also, Fitz came in to the league not only as a 7th round pick, but more importantly, in a time when defensive backs were allowed to play defense and throw receivers off of their routes.  That hasn't been the case for some time now.

Neither is great...and honestly, it's depressing to think that guys who most teams want nothing to do with have been our starters for what feels like forever at this point.

Horrible.

 

[win4ever]

Just now, ljr said:

This is the line I'm curious about

"  I feel as if most QBs (including Geno) could have improved the team last year, because of the talent upgrade "

do you believe Geno would have been able to pull off a 6 game improvement swing?

if you do, are you able to accept that Todd Bowles does not?

Well it's not Geno (nor Fitz making that improvement).  

How many win(s) does Marshall add?

How many win(s) does a healthy Decker add?

How many win(s) does Revis add?

How many wins doe(s) an improved Pryor add?

How many wins does the easier schedule add?

For strength of schedule for QBs, here are fantasy predictors:

2014:  http://www.thehuddle.com/2014/articles/dmd-fantasy-ease-of-schedule-quarterbacks.php

2015:  http://www.thehuddle.com/2015/articles/fantasy-strength-of-schedule-quarterbacks.php

The Jets jumped up from 23rd best, to 11th best.  How many wins does that add?  

 

[ljr]

5 minutes ago, win4ever said:

Well it's not Geno (nor Fitz making that improvement).  

How many win(s) does Marshall add?

How many win(s) does a healthy Decker add?

How many win(s) does Revis add?

How many wins doe(s) an improved Pryor add?

How many wins does the easier schedule add?

For strength of schedule for QBs, here are fantasy predictors:

2014:  http://www.thehuddle.com/2014/articles/dmd-fantasy-ease-of-schedule-quarterbacks.php

2015:  http://www.thehuddle.com/2015/articles/fantasy-strength-of-schedule-quarterbacks.php

The Jets jumped up from 23rd best, to 11th best.  How many wins does that add?  

 

Too bad ... I was hoping to be able to give a kudos for acknowledging the truth reply to you.

instead, as usual from the Geno crowd , there was just bobbing , weaving, and fear of answering because they know how foolish they'll sound trying to forward a pro-Geno agenda.

the answers of course are Geno would not have been able to use all those good things you talked about to go from 4 wins to 10 wins.

7 or perhaps 8 would have been his high water mark with all the additions you mention.

[win4ever]

4 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I meant 2009 Fitz in 2009.  Yes, he was older and more experienced than Sanchez, but his career numbers tell us he's a better player.  Hell, the fact that an NFL team wants him to start tells us he's better than Fitz.  Sanchez won some playoff games because those teams were good enough to carry him.

Also, Fitz came in to the league not only as a 7th round pick, but more importantly, in a time when defensive backs were allowed to play defense and throw receivers off of their routes.  That hasn't been the case for some time now.

Neither is great...and honestly, it's depressing to think that guys who most teams want nothing to do with have been our starters for what feels like forever at this point.

Horrible.

 

Our situation is horrible.  It honestly sickens to me see a team like the Colts be set up for two decades, when on every other aspect they are worse than us with drafting talent.  

2009 Fitz wasn't much better than Sanchez though, similar ratings, QBR, YPG are all pretty much the same.  

 

[AFJF]

Just now, win4ever said:

Our situation is horrible.  It honestly sickens to me see a team like the Colts be set up for two decades, when on every other aspect they are worse than us with drafting talent.  

2009 Fitz wasn't much better than Sanchez though, similar ratings, QBR, YPG are all pretty much the same.  

 

Again....our quarterbacks....along with Geno Smith.  What's the saying?  I laugh to stop myself from crying?  In that case LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

[win4ever]

1 minute ago, ljr said:

Too bad ... I was hoping to be able to give a kudos for acknowledging the truth reply to you.

instead, as usual from the Geno crowd , there was just bobbing , weaving, and fear of answering because they know how foolish they'll sound trying to forward a pro-Geno agenda.

the answers of course are Geno would not have been able to use all those good things you talked about to go from 4 wins to 10 wins.

7 or perhaps 8 would have been his high water mark with all the additions you mention.

Wait, how do you qualify this 7 or 8 win number? 

Can you answer how many wins the aforementioned players and situations add individually?

I think there is a post here by me months ago, detailing the start of both Fitz and Geno's career, pretty much being the same as well.   

I think this drop off from Fitz to Geno is minimal, and when factoring in age, contract, and system, I like Geno better.  It's also the reason why the Jets aren't willing to give him outright starter money, and there is a standoff.  If the Jets believed Fitz was the answer, he'd be signed by now.   

[win4ever]

3 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Again....our quarterbacks....along with Geno Smith.  What's the saying?  I laugh to stop myself from crying?  In that case LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Lol, yeah it's not an ideal situation.  And to think of all the happenstances that occurred to change out fate.  

Peyton not coming out the year we had the No. 1

Passing on Brady over and over again in a year we drafted a QB

Pennington getting the shoulder injury

Sam Bradford not coming out when projected to go No. 1, pushing Stafford and Sanchez up

Passing on Russel Wilson after Bradway wanted him. 

[AFJF]

Just now, win4ever said:

Lol, yeah it's not an ideal situation.  And to think of all the happenstances that occurred to change out fate.  

Peyton not coming out the year we had the No. 1

Passing on Brady over and over again in a year we drafted a QB

Pennington getting the shoulder injury

Sam Bradford not coming out when projected to go No. 1, pushing Stafford and Sanchez up

Passing on Russel Wilson after Bradway wanted him. 

You forgot not moving up to grab Favre....

 

 

[win4ever]

Just now, AFJF said:

You forgot not moving up to grab Favre....

 

 

Oh yeah, because of the supplemental draft of all things.   

[AFJF]

3 minutes ago, win4ever said:

Oh yeah, because of the supplemental draft of all things.   

Pray to the football gods that Hack is finally the answer.

[ljr]

1 minute ago, win4ever said:

Wait, how do you qualify this 7 or 8 win number? 

Can you answer how many wins the aforementioned players and situations add individually?

I think there is a post here by me months ago, detailing the start of both Fitz and Geno's career, pretty much being the same as well.   

I think this drop off from Fitz to Geno is minimal, and when factoring in age, contract, and system, I like Geno better.  It's also the reason why the Jets aren't willing to give him outright starter money, and there is a standoff.  If the Jets believed Fitz was the answer, he'd be signed by now.   

I agree Revis was a big upgrade at #1cb, Marshall  big upgrade at #1 wr, & the schedule a big help.  Quantifying Decker in previous years vs 2015 & Pryor improving (I'll throw in Gilchrist as well) helped too ... But to a lesser degree.

all those things are not in a vacuum though and play off of each other in garnering the 6 game improvement.

as does the upgrade at QB last year from the previous seasons.

so I qualify, or quantify if you prefer, the 7 or 8 wins as the likely high point of all the additions you mentioned , minus the improvement at QB.

[win4ever]

2 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Pray to the football gods that Hack is finally the answer.

I really hope he is, but such a project though.  I remember doing that article and just thinking where the heck the guy was throwing sometimes.   He does have great physical tools and the affinity for learning, so atleast there is hope.   

2 minutes ago, ljr said:

I agree Revis was a big upgrade at #1cb, Marshall  big upgrade at #1 wr, & the schedule a big help.  Quantifying Decker in previous years vs 2015 & Pryor improving (I'll throw in Gilchrist as well) helped too ... But to a lesser degree.

all those things are not in a vacuum though and play off of each other in garnering the 6 game improvement.

as does the upgrade at QB last year from the previous seasons.

so I qualify, or quantify if you prefer, the 7 or 8 wins as the likely high point of all the additions you mentioned , minus the improvement at QB.

Well the defense went from 21st to 5th overall in terms of defensive efficiency, so the defense took a step up for sure.  

The offense went from 27th to 14th in offensive efficiency as well according to Football Outsiders.  

I can understand if you cap Geno last year at 8-9 wins, 7 might be a bit low, considering he got 8 with a similar loser team the year before.  However, in a vacuum, I believe Geno fits the offense better Geno's traits better than Fitz.  One of Geno's biggest weakness is his inability to read the LB dropping back into coverage.  The spread system is designed to counter-act this by spreading the defense out, so the defense can't disguise this quite as well.  As mentioned earlier, it's all about spacing in terms of spread offenses, making the defense show their hands earlier than they want to, allowing for easier reads.  I think Geno has the tools to take advantage of this system as long as he learns to read defenses at the line.   

Assuming those changes, and from those numbers in reverse, would you say Fitz would had led us to 6-7 wins in 2014?  And if Fitz had won 6-7 wins in 2014, would you make him a starter in 2015?

[Beerfish]

20 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Pray to the football gods that Hack is finally the answer.

I have far less confidence in this guy turning into anything than I did Sanchez and Geno and I didn't really like either of them coming out.  I'm going to be doing a lot of praying. 

I've said this before, my big fear about 'Hack' is that if things go poorly this year and we are sitting drafting 5th overall next year and we can either take a highly rated QB or trade up for one, what are we going to do?  Probably pass on any QB until later rounds because we have to give Hack a 'chance'.

[ljr]

7 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I really hope he is, but such a project though.  I remember doing that article and just thinking where the heck the guy was throwing sometimes.   He does have great physical tools and the affinity for learning, so atleast there is hope.   

Well the defense went from 21st to 5th overall in terms of defensive efficiency, so the defense took a step up for sure.  

The offense went from 27th to 14th in offensive efficiency as well according to Football Outsiders.  

I can understand if you cap Geno last year at 8-9 wins, 7 might be a bit low, considering he got 8 with a similar loser team the year before.  However, in a vacuum, I believe Geno fits the offense better Geno's traits better than Fitz.  One of Geno's biggest weakness is his inability to read the LB dropping back into coverage.  The spread system is designed to counter-act this by spreading the defense out, so the defense can't disguise this quite as well.  As mentioned earlier, it's all about spacing in terms of spread offenses, making the defense show their hands earlier than they want to, allowing for easier reads.  I think Geno has the tools to take advantage of this system as long as he learns to read defenses at the line.   

Assuming those changes, and from those numbers in reverse, would you say Fitz would had led us to 6-7 wins in 2014?  And if Fitz had won 6-7 wins in 2014, would you make him a starter in 2015?

Yes I'd say a 2 game improvement (with 3 being more likely than 1) is reasonable if Fitz was our 2014 QB instead of Geno.

i would certainly have looked all all other options heading into 2015 with a new FO, HC, & OC ... and if they believed a 3rd option to be more to their liking for the cost I'd have been on board.

if it simply was a Fitz vs. Geno comparison , yes I would easily have had Fitz as 2015 starter