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Geno Smith's 2014 Stats in "Context".


Villain The Foe

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1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Maybe this year. We'll certainly find out since he's the STARTER at this time!

Lord knows, nothing can possibly change now.

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Furthermore, I'd rather have the playoffs than 10 wins

Usually one goes hand and hand with the other.  10 wins and out is rare.  Sadly, we needed 11 last year.

When was the last time Geno won 11 NFL games in a season?

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

, a top 10 offense and it all go down the drain because Geno decided to throw 3 INT's in the 4th qtr of week 17 because the pressure was on. 

Geno throws more INT's for the Jets than Fitz does.  Without the Top 10 Offense to go with it.

Geno hasn't failed under pressure, because his seasons as a starter in the NFL thus far haven't had any pressure, at least not for him.  He's an out of it early,  garbage time QB.

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1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Smith has a moderate level of potential 

Where do I sign up for "moderate potential" that "might not be terrible"?

And this is a pro-Geno article, lol!  Or :cry: might be more apt.....

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21 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Lord knows, nothing can possibly change now.

 

Not true, but I sensed the sarcasm. 

Quote

Usually one goes hand and hand with the other.  10 wins and out is rare.  Sadly, we needed 11 last year.

When was the last time Geno won 11 NFL games in a season?

 

Probably the same year Fitz won 11. Then again, Geno did win 8 games in his rookie year, Fitz won 8 in his 11th. 

Quote

Geno throws more INT's for the Jets than Fitz does.  Without the Top 10 Offense to go with it.

 

Geno has more wins for the Jets than Fitz does, and did it without the top 10 offensive talent or the top 3 defensive talent. 

Quote

Geno hasn't failed under pressure, because his seasons as a starter in the NFL thus far haven't had any pressure, at least not for him.  He's an out of it early,  garbage time QB.

Fitz failed under pressure last year because having top 10 talent on offense and a top 3 defense around him to carry him to a pressure situation he simply couldnt handle the heat in the kitchen. 

Matter of fact, if it wasnt for that top 10 offensive talent and top 3 defensive talent he would ALSO be an "out of it early garbage time QB" given that without that top 10 offense and top 3 defense the jets had last season, Ryan Fitzpatrick never won more than 6 games in his decade long career BEFORE last season....something that Geno did as a rookie...winning 8. 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Where do I sign up for "moderate potential" that "might not be terrible"?

And this is a pro-Geno article, lol!  Or :cry: might be more apt.....

You dont have to sign up for it....he's already on the team. However, that beats paying 12 million dollars for a guy with a career losing record, cant handle the pressure when a team finally carries him to a pressure game and before joining the Jets had 10 years to turn his career around but THAT proved to be too much pressure. 

 

Im owning you. I'll go back to my one word responses now, so you can have an excuse like "Generally people who have one word responses simply cant handle the question" nonsense in order for you to save face. 

Proven to be nothing more than a waste of time anyway. 

 

Matter of fact, since I know I'll be getting 2 responses from you trying to sound like you know what you're talking about, let me provide you with my responses now. 

 

lol

LOL

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3 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Maybe this year. We'll certainly find out since he's the STARTER at this time!

Furthermore, I'd rather have the playoffs than 10 wins, a top 10 offense and it all go down the drain because Geno decided to throw 3 INT's in the 4th qtr of week 17 because the pressure was on. 

Go watch Geno with 6 minutes left ... Then again with 4 minutes left vs. the Raiders to see how he responds to pressure.

hint - it is exactly the same as we saw in 2014 & in 2013

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8 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

No, I didn't designate any particular part of it as redundant. It's all redundant, and the definition of rehashing over and over = redundant. Regardless of whether your opinion is that some of it's insightful and compelling.

 

I'm busting balls.

You have to admit, your continued contributions add to the redundancy.  It's why I said we, more than once

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26 minutes ago, ljr said:

Go watch Geno with 6 minutes left ... Then again with 4 minutes left vs. the Raiders to see how he responds to pressure.

hint - it is exactly the same as we saw in 2014 & in 2013

Fitz isn't coming back.. He just put his house up for rent.. Cut off contact with teammates..Bowles is tired of the diva and is moving on if he does not sign in a few days.. Time to back geno like it or not

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3 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Fitz isn't coming back.. He just put his house up for rent.. Cut off contact with teammates..Bowles is tired of the diva and is moving on if he does not sign in a few days.. Time to back geno like it or not

= offseason contract negotiation.

you gonna back Fitz once he does sign like it or not?

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6 minutes ago, ljr said:

= offseason contract negotiation.

you gonna back Fitz once he does sign like it or not?

Ya moron.. Because Fitz/geno is much better than geno/petty.. Only an idiot thinks you can be confident getting through a season with 1 average qb. Fitz can get hurt,or play horrible like he did in buf , ect.. Same with geno.. And petty is not ready to be the #2.. Ryan Fitzpatrick has a few days left to join the only team he will succeed with.. If not, he can continue to play with his kids in the tree..

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2 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Ya moron.. Because Fitz/geno is much better than geno/petty.. Only an idiot thinks you can be confident getting through a season with 1 average qb. Fitz can get hurt,or play horrible like he did in buf , ect.. Same with geno.. And petty is not ready to be the #2.. Ryan Fitzpatrick has a few days left to join the only team he will succeed with.. If not, he can continue to play with his kids in the tree..

Lol ... So suddenly all the Fitz vs. Geno as the starter talk turns to you being cool with Fitz starting & Geno as the backup !?!?!

 

cool! Hope you had some tasty sausage with your waffle

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7 minutes ago, ljr said:

Lol ... So suddenly all the Fitz vs. Geno as the starter talk turns to you being cool with Fitz starting & Geno as the backup !?!?!

 

cool! Hope you had some tasty sausage with your waffle

Are u a special Ed student ? Nowhere ever have I said geno is " better " than Ryan Fitzpatrick.. I have said he can be "just as good" with a healthy Marshall/decker and gailey running the O..  And at a fraction of the cost.. And he isn't acting like a little girl like Fitz..

    We had an EASY schedule last yr, and had a very healthy O.. Still if you recall Fitz had shaking ground early on where Bowles had to say and repeat he isn't making a qb change.. Are you one of the idiots who say " cut geno ?" ?

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3 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Are u a special Ed student ? Nowhere ever have I said geno is " better " than Ryan Fitzpatrick.. I have said he can be "just as good" with a healthy Marshall/decker and gailey running the O..  

So you are trying to say

Geno is not better than Fitz ... But Geno is not worse than Fitz ... Rather Geno CAN be exactly the same as Fitz !?!?!?!

lololololoolololol 

you are the one with the special needs speaking pattern McCorky21

and even then you are not willing to say he WILL be exactly the same ... But rather he CAN be lol

 

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16 minutes ago, ljr said:

So you are trying to say

Geno is not better than Fitz ... But Geno is not worse than Fitz ... Rather Geno CAN be exactly the same as Fitz !?!?!?!

lololololoolololol 

you are the one with the special needs speaking pattern McCorky21

and even then you are not willing to say he WILL be exactly the same ... But rather he CAN be lol

 

Yes moron! This is exactly what Mac, Bowles, and gailey believe! Otherwise they would have ALREADY caved into Fitz demands.. They already believed geno was better last yr at this time, do you honestly believe they are going to do a 360 just because gailey was brilliant with the amazing duo of Marshall / decker ? We know Ryan is a little smarter, ( despite his utter stupidity in buffalo.. But he can't throw deep without a long Hail Mary windup.. Geno has a much stronger arm.. He can run.. He is young.. If Fitz was so good why hasn't anyone else signed him ? Time for bed kid your making yourself look stupid ?

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1 minute ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Yes moron! This is exactly what Mac, Bowles, and gailey believe! Otherwise they would have ALREADY caved into Fitz demands.. They already believed geno was better last yr at this time, do you honestly believe they are going to do a 360 just because gailey was brilliant with the amazing duo of Marshall / decker ? We know Ryan is a little smarter, ( despite his utter stupidity in buffalo.. But he can't throw deep without a long Hail Mary windup.. Geno has a much stronger arm.. He can run.. He is young.. If Fitz was so good why hasn't anyone else signed him ? Time for bed kid your making yourself look stupid ?

Riddle me this Batman ... Why wouldn't Mac try to negotiate the best possible deal for the team up to the start of training camp instead of ALREADY caving in to pay Fitz more when Fitz has no other suitors and has admitted retirement is not an option?

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32 minutes ago, ljr said:

Riddle me this Batman ... Why wouldn't Mac try to negotiate the best possible deal for the team up to the start of training camp instead of ALREADY caving in to pay Fitz more when Fitz has no other suitors and has admitted retirement is not an option?

You are right! We don't know with Mac will pull the offer off the table and Fitz has no other choice but to retire.. Clock is ticking.. Fitz is playing Russian roulette.. The reports say they are still far apart but Fitz will most likely cave in to what is ever on the table in a few days.. And Mac would have caved if he thought for a second ANY other team even had the smallest interest in Ryan Fitzpatrick ! But no one does ?

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The Jets had quite possibly the No. 1 WR duo last year.  They had the best rusher in the league.  They had a top 10 defense, which Football Outsiders deemed the second best defense in the AFC behind the Broncos.  We had one of the easiest schedules in terms of defenses faced.  So, who was the weak link? 

To me, this is Mark Sanchez all over again, at a matured age meter.   The team was set up perfectly for a QB to thrive, and Fitzpatrick thrived.  I don't have a problem with Fitz, I have a problem with him being a savior, which he is not.   If he wants to come into camp and compete for a job, I'm all for it.  I'm against paying him starter money, because this screams Josh McGown with the Bears, when he had Forte, Marshall, Jeffery, and Bennet at his disposal one year and took off.  Ofcourse he came crashing down to Earth afterwards with the Bucs.   

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Heyo, so I'm the author of the original piece. I didn't really want to make an account but i felt like it after reading (some of) this thread. First, thanks for posting this around; it's cool that people are interested in some of what i do.

Someone referred to these as 'advanced stats', but they aren't. it's literally taking the already accepted counting stats and separating them into each area where they belong. It's like having a drawer full of socks that you organize by color and formality. The only non-normal stat is interceptable, but if you already accept WR drops as a statistic; it shouldn't be a stretch of logic to accept interceptable.

No, Geno wouldn't have been a starter for any other team if he was picked up this offseason. That's a bad hypothetical because it's obvious that few teams are picking up a player who spent a year on the bench after his stats and then putting him in as the starter. But that actually has no relevance to his potential in the 2016 season. No team would've done the same for Kirk Cousins prior to 2015. In fact, they may have had him as trade bait and no one bit. No one would've done that for Fitzpatrick either when he entered his 6th season in the NFL and was suddenly the starter for Buffalo after they benched Trent Edwards due to poor performance, the season after he had performed mediocrely replacing Trent Edwards again. Not every path to NFL "success" has to be linear.

I don't remember the other points I wanted to hit, but feel free to ask me whatever if you feel like it. I can also make custom splits for any stats you're interested in (like for Players vs Man, and for in wins, in losses, post-harvin trade, 3rd down when X etc).

 

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8 hours ago, ljr said:

Go watch Geno with 6 minutes left ... Then again with 4 minutes left vs. the Raiders to see how he responds to pressure.

hint - it is exactly the same as we saw in 2014 & in 2013

Might as well throw 2015 in there as well. But of course you're going to ignore the fact when Its Fitz right? Okay, let me prove how you're ignoring it. 

#1. Jets vs Bills week 10. Fitz on 2 min drive down by less than a TD throws a "walk-off INT" on 1st and 10 to end the the game against an AFC team competing for the same playoff spot as us, as well as his former team.

 #2. Jets vs Texans week 11. With exactly 2:00 mins left on 1st and 15 on our 29 yard line down by 1 score threw a "walk-off INT" to end the game against an AFC rival and former team. 

#3. Jets vs Eagles week 3. Fitz with less than 4 mins to go in the 4th qtr. down by a score threw his 3rd TD of the game. 

#4. Jets vs Bills week 17. Fitz with less than 1 min left down by a score throws his 3rd INT of the 4th quarter on 3rd and 1 which was another "walk-off int" for Fitz and the Jets, the 3rd time against an AFC team/rival and former team, with this performance ENDING OUR SEASON.

Now back to Geno.

I have, and not only is Geno undefeated in week 17 games, but in the Raiders game where he took those bad sacks and was in a 4th and 20 situation with less than 4mins left....he completed a 21 yard pass to Decker to convert the 4th down and keep the drive alive. If you weren't busy hating you would have known that. You would have also known that the Jets defense gave up the most points to the Raiders than any other team last season, which includes ALL THOSE GAMES above of Fitzpatrick losing in the last minutes because he and that "top 10 offense" could only produce 17 f'ing points in all 4 of those games above. Meanwhile the Jets defense held each of those opponents to 24 points or less, not a season high 34 points.

 

Too easy, hater. 

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6 hours ago, win4ever said:

The Jets had quite possibly the No. 1 WR duo last year.  They had the best rusher in the league.  They had a top 10 defense, which Football Outsiders deemed the second best defense in the AFC behind the Broncos.  We had one of the easiest schedules in terms of defenses faced.  So, who was the weak link? 

To me, this is Mark Sanchez all over again, at a matured age meter.   The team was set up perfectly for a QB to thrive, and Fitzpatrick thrived.  I don't have a problem with Fitz, I have a problem with him being a savior, which he is not.   If he wants to come into camp and compete for a job, I'm all for it.  I'm against paying him starter money, because this screams Josh McGown with the Bears, when he had Forte, Marshall, Jeffery, and Bennet at his disposal one year and took off.  Ofcourse he came crashing down to Earth afterwards with the Bucs.   

Sanchez had a much better defense and running game.  If Fitz were gifted the no. 1 defense and ground game, the Jets win 14 games easily IMO.

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36 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Sanchez had a much better defense and running game.  If Fitz were gifted the no. 1 defense and ground game, the Jets win 14 games easily IMO.

But Fitz is "allegedly" better than Sanchez, which means that the QB position was better than Sanchez (allegedly lol). Also, the Jet had a better WR duo. Sanchez may have had a better defense (No. 1) But Fitz defense last year was still top 3 or 4. Though Sanchez had a better running game, Fitz still had a 1,000 yard rusher that was top 5 in the league...only behind Todd Gurley, Adrian Peterson, Doug Martin and a Darren McFadden who ran behind the best line in the league. 

Sanchez may have had arguably a better defense and running game, but it wasnt "much better". However, what Fitz had was truly a "much easier" schedule (easier than anything Sanchez ever faced) with truly a "much better" WR group, coaching staff, front office and an overall better offense (top 10 wasnt it?), yet didnt easily win 14 games or easily make the playoffs. 

The Jets would have made the playoffs and probably the AFCCG last year if Sanchez was our QB. 

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9 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Are u a special Ed student ? Nowhere ever have I said geno is " better " than Ryan Fitzpatrick.. I have said he can be "just as good" with a healthy Marshall/decker and gailey running the O..  And at a fraction of the cost.. And he isn't acting like a little girl like Fitz..

    We had an EASY schedule last yr, and had a very healthy O.. Still if you recall Fitz had shaking ground early on where Bowles had to say and repeat he isn't making a qb change.. Are you one of the idiots who say " cut geno ?" ?

Some Fitz fans have a hard time with this, don't quite understand you can think there won't be MUCH difference and a 12 mil savings.  

And yes, they would rather cut Geno 

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23 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

But Fitz is "allegedly" better than Sanchez, which means that the QB position was better than Sanchez. Also, the Jet had a better WR duo. Sanchez may have had a better defense (No. 1) But Fitz defense last years was still top 3 or 4. Though Sanchez had a better running game, Fitz still had a 1,000 yard rusher that was top 5 in the league...only behind Todd Gurley, Adrian Peterson, Doug Martin and a Darren McFadden who ran behind the best line in the league. 

Sanchez may have had arguably a better defense and running game, but it wasnt "much better". However, what Fitz had was truly a "much easier" schedule (easier than anything Sanchez ever faced) with truly a "much better" WR group, coaching staff and front office, yet didnt easily win 14 games or easily make the playoffs. 

The Jets would have made the playoffs last year if Sanchez was our QB. 

It's the defenses fault.

Not Fitz.  

With Geno all you hear is that a good QB would win you more games, a good QB makes the players around him better.  With Fitz, it's the D.  Buffalo game, on the D, that's what I was told.  Revis sucked too.  Not Fitz.  Different rules apply to different players. 

How shocking though, as time runs out the team that's losing takes more and more chances.  Open ending themselves up to more big mistakes while the winning team runs out the clock.  A new concept

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7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Some Fitz fans have a hard time with this, don't quite understand you can think there won't be MUCH difference and a 12 mil savings.  

And yes, they would rather cut Geno 

Add to the fact that we'd have to restructure contracts and cut players just to sign a guy that half of Jets fans cant even agree is better than the guy we currently have on the team just to pay him 12 times as much. Not to mention that we still need to sign Darron Lee and need money set aside just in case of an injury. 

 

Is Fitzpatrick worth all this maneuvering? It's not like he's Mo Wilkerson, a guy who isnt better than Watt but when he got paid more than Watt...Jets fans, no matter the side of the financial debate you were on prior to the signing, were all happy that Macc resigned him even for that amount because we all know what Mo brings on a yearly basis. 

 

This is Ryan Fitzpatrick we're talking about here. 

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15 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I never said that, what I said was "stop defending a max 6 win QB". Go look it up. What you remember is what an assclown who decided to twist my words SAID that I said, and the fact that the masses act like what the masses always act like, it turned from what I actually said to what you believed I said. 

 

And if you're so sure of yourself then please, go back and find where I said that the Jets would only win 6 games that year and shut my mouth.

Fitz sucks. 

nah, not going to go back and look up all the times you said we weren't going to win more than 6 games.  You know you spammed it often.  Fitz sucks but he accounted for how many TDs last year?  oooookaaaayyy

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11 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Bist du heute emo? Genau, Ich weiß lol. Das heißt du jeden tag. Fitz ist müll mein freund. Beende es bereits ok?

Bis Fitz ist der Starter,  ruhig bis dann. 

Emo.

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8 hours ago, win4ever said:

The Jets had quite possibly the No. 1 WR duo last year.  They had the best rusher in the league.  They had a top 10 defense, which Football Outsiders deemed the second best defense in the AFC behind the Broncos.  We had one of the easiest schedules in terms of defenses faced.  So, who was the weak link? 

To me, this is Mark Sanchez all over again, at a matured age meter.   The team was set up perfectly for a QB to thrive, and Fitzpatrick thrived.  I don't have a problem with Fitz, I have a problem with him being a savior, which he is not.   If he wants to come into camp and compete for a job, I'm all for it.  I'm against paying him starter money, because this screams Josh McGown with the Bears, when he had Forte, Marshall, Jeffery, and Bennet at his disposal one year and took off.  Ofcourse he came crashing down to Earth afterwards with the Bucs.   

Except its not much like Sanchezt.  Sanchez took sacks, fumbled the ball away, had awful turnover ratios, had awful redzone efficiency and didn't produce enough points on a consistent basis.

Special teams were an utter joke last year.  Our oline was hardly probowl material.  The defense for all of it's high ratings is what cost us at least a couple of games.

 

I do agree about your point of having a team (and system) in which the limited vet QB could thrive.  But that is what we have been screaming for for years, just give us a guy that can control things and not give games away on a consistent basis, Fitzpatrick did better than that.

In any case the Jets are pooched because once again, as always we have no true quality starting QB.  No one on the roster, not Fitz and no one we can go out and get at this time.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Some Fitz fans have a hard time with this, don't quite understand you can think there won't be MUCH difference and a 12 mil savings.  

And yes, they would rather cut Geno 

There is only two reasons I give two sh*ts about what Fitz is paid.

1. Does paying Fitz X hurt the Jets in the current season by disallowing us to sign a player we otherwise need or would sign.  

2. Does paying Fitz X hurt the Jets in future seasons via inflating/market busting values that we cannot rid ourselves of by cutting him.

I've yet to see any evidence that either of these two are in play.  

Pro-Geno posters often claim we're going to lose out on some unnamed backup Right Tackle, but this is pure speculation on their part, the Jets have shown no interest in backup 12 million dollar Right Tackles.  And personally, I place even a small improvement at QB ahead of depth at Right Tackle in a year where we have playoff-level talent overall.

I've also not seen any evidence that the oft reported 12/6/6 offer to Fitz will do any harm to us in the long-term, especially given that (again, per reporting) the 6/6 portion are both optional, i.e. cutting Fitz would save those dollars against the cap.

So unless paying Fitz the 12 hurts us, I could care less what he's paid.  It's not my money, and I'm not going to accept lesser QB play in 2016 for a small potential gain in overall cap space in 2017 or beyond.  

And let me be clear, I have said all along not to cut Geno.  I most certainly let him walk at seasons end, but for 2016 with Petty and hack apparently far from ready, there is no gain of any kind to be had in cutting Geno Smith.  He is a tolerable backup QB, likely better as a #2 than many out there.  In a potential playoff season, you do not cut that asset without substantial gain from it.  I don't see the gain in that cut.

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7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

There is only two reasons I give two sh*ts about what Fitz is paid.

1. Does paying Fitz X hurt the Jets in the current season by disallowing us to sign a player we otherwise need or would sign.  

2. Does paying Fitz X hurt the Jets in future seasons via inflating/market busting values that we cannot rid ourselves of by cutting him.

I've yet to see any evidence that either of these two are in play.  

Pro-Geno posters often claim we're going to lose out on some unnamed backup Right Tackle, but this is pure speculation on their part, the Jets have shown no interest in backup 12 million dollar Right Tackles.  And personally, I place even a small improvement at QB ahead of depth at Right Tackle in a year where we have playoff-level talent overall.

I've also not seen any evidence that the oft reported 12/6/6 offer to Fitz will do any harm to us in the long-term, especially given that (again, per reporting) the 6/6 portion are both optional, i.e. cutting Fitz would save those dollars against the cap.

So unless paying Fitz the 12 hurts us, I could care less what he's paid.  It's not my money, and I'm not going to accept lesser QB play in 2016 for a small potential gain in overall cap space in 2017 or beyond.  

And let me be clear, I have said all along not to cut Geno.  I most certainly let him walk at seasons end, but for 2016 with Petty and hack apparently far from ready, there is no gain of any kind to be had in cutting Geno Smith.  He is a tolerable backup QB, likely better as a #2 than many out there.  In a potential playoff season, you do not cut that asset without substantial gain from it.  I don't see the gain in that cut.

You can tell me all you want that the 12 mil has no effect down the road, you don't know that.  Someone will have to be restructured or cut will be made.  Every move has an effect.  Get a rash of injuries to a position and fill the wholes left behind and being up against the cap means you either don't make a move(s) or make half moves.  

Of course that's all great if Geno plays as well or close to what Fitz would give you.  And if that assumption is true, then what's the reason to bring Fitz in?  What do we need two QBs if both play reasonably similar football?  Because...we're able to?  I'm not saying Genos a better QB.  Just think we're not going to notice a drop off by saving the money it takes to bring Fitz back

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