Mehta: Fitz reacts to poor QB ranking

[Smashmouth]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

In the season finale last year, Tyrod Taylor completed 64% of his passes and threw zero interceptions, while at the same time Ryan Fitzpatrick connected on 43% of his passes and threw three interceptions. I know you're in complete denial -even if Fitz, himself, isn't- but this goes directly to (the lack of) arm strength. 

proof that Jets fans watch so little of the rest of the NFL . Yes even the Great QB's do not throw much against the wind. Its a wonder why coaches try to get the ball with the wind in the 4th quarter. Why would they do such a stupid thing since it makes no sense to Slats if the QB has a great arm. Did you ever in your life throw a football into the wind ? Its extremely difficult and its also a crap shoot with wind gusts.

[UpstateJetsGuru]

1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

ok so we can look at one game that makes total sense. Buffalo locked down our WR's wind or no wind Fitz didn't have many options in that game along with no running game and no check downs .

Tyrod Taylor was the beneficiary of the top ground game in football. He also wasn't forced to make many downfield throws. His backup RB's and receivers were apparently too much for our vaunted defense to handle. By the way, Tyrod was rated below Fitz. 

[cant wait]

55 minutes ago, UpstateJetsGuru said:

Actually Titans defense was ranked pretty highly last year and all QB's in that division play them twice a year. Do we throw out Brady's and Rogers big TD games against teams when they are running up the score against weak opponents. Of course not, yet you want to get rid of a career game for Fitz. Sure ok. Should we then get rid of the last quarter against the Bills. I kept that in! I think I began with the Titans game because that's when Fitz began to turn it around. Ok. Let's get rid of that game. He still had 34 TD's to 15 INT's  in his previous 16 games. And you know why the Titans became the worst team in football? Largely because they got rid of Fitz for Jake Locker and Zack Mettenberger. They weren't great with Fitz, but they were unquestionably a hell of a lot more competitive!

The Titans pass D may have been decent at some point last year but were awful by the time they came here. but regardless I'm not doubting Fitz's ability to compile stats against bottom feeders, that's not in question, I also don't think the weak arm is really the most limiting aspect of his game. IMO the biggest problem with fitz is that he's a one read QB who can't make post-snap adjustments and has a bad habit of staring down his receivers. even if he's going to predetermine his throws, he really needs to do a better job of selling it... if you watch the tape he rarely moves his head in the pocket. also with all the new pass catchers at his disposal, gailey needs to be a lot more creative with the schemes to spread the ball around more this season 

[slats]

2 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

proof that Jets fans watch so little of the rest of the NFL . Yes even the Great QB's do not throw much against the wind. Its a wonder why coaches try to get the ball with the wind in the 4th quarter. Why would they do such a stupid thing since it makes no sense to Slats if the QB has a great arm. Did you ever in your life throw a football into the wind ? Its extremely difficult and its also a crap shoot with wind gusts.

Lol, so the wind was gusting when Fitz threw, but settled down when Taylor threw? 

Dude, just admit it, as Fitz has, that over 90% of the (first, second and third string) QBs in the NFL have a stronger arm than he does. Yes, of course, wind can change a game plan, but an NFL arm can cut thru them, too. As Tyrod did on a day Fitz couldn't. Which is a real part of the reason why he's not a good fit if you're talking about the postseason in the northeast. 

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

Lol, so the wind was gusting when Fitz threw, but settled down when Taylor threw? 

Dude, just admit it, as Fitz has, that over 90% of the (first, second and third string) QBs in the NFL have a stronger arm than he does. Yes, of course, wind can change a game plan, but an NFL arm can cut thru them, too. As Tyrod did on a day Fitz couldn't. Which is a real part of the reason why he's not a good fit if you're talking about the postseason in the northeast. 

Well we had the wind twice and Buffalo had the wind twice. Fitz also threw more than Taylor did. The Jets game plan shifted by the quarter. Once they went down after the abysmal punt we were in catch up mode. Buffalo took advantage in the first quarter as they had the wind and scored twice.

[slats]

8 minutes ago, UpstateJetsGuru said:

Tyrod Taylor was the beneficiary of the top ground game in football. He also wasn't forced to make many downfield throws. His backup RB's and receivers were apparently too much for our vaunted defense to handle. By the way, Tyrod was rated below Fitz. 

The Bills leading rusher that day was Tyrod Taylor. Their second leading rusher gained 28 yards on 24 carries. So yeah, obviously they were leaning heavily on their ground game. Not sure what you mean by rating, but Fitz had a 42.7 passer rating that day, and Taylor had an 82.7. 

[slats]

6 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Well we had the wind twice and Buffalo had the wind twice. Fitz also threw more than Taylor did. The Jets game plan shifted by the quarter. Once they went down after the abysmal punt we were in catch up mode. Buffalo took advantage in the first quarter as they had the wind and scored twice.

It's true. Taylor completed two more passes on nine fewer attempts that day. Unless you count interceptions as completions, then Fitz won by one. 

[UpstateJetsGuru]

3 minutes ago, cant wait said:

The Titans pass D may have been decent at some point last year but were awful by the time they came here. but regardless I'm not doubting Fitz's ability to compile stats against bottom feeders, that's not in question, I also don't think the weak arm is really the most limiting aspect of his game. IMO the biggest problem with fitz is that he's a one read QB who can't make post-snap adjustments and has a bad habit of staring down his receivers. even if he's going to predetermine his throws, he really needs to do a better job of selling it... if you watch the tape he rarely moves his head in the pocket. also with all the new pass catchers at his disposal, gailey needs to be a lot more creative with the schemes to spread the ball around more this season 

You may have something of a point there. You do make some very solid posts. Some of that may be a product of playing behind poor offensive lines and his desire not to take sacks and get the ball out quickly. It works an awful lot of the time, but occasionally when the defense makes a very good read, he can get into trouble. I think Fitz showed some ability to adapt as he occasionally moved in the pocket and found secondary receivers. I think you will see the same thing in Tom Brady as well, as he is a short rhythm passer with a lot of predetermined snaps, but the Pats o-line allows him to be more patient and throw off of initial reads. Some QB's make multiple reads, yet take tons of sacks and don't have Fitz's pre-snap acumen. Chan seems fine with it, and it ultimately plays as both a strength and a kweakness. Truth is Fitz played lights out down the stretch, but it didn't happen for him in the last quarter of the season. 

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

It's true. Taylor completed two more passes on nine fewer attempts that day. Unless you count interceptions as completions, then Fitz won by one. 

Ok? Still not addressing you were wrong about the wind. If the Jets had a re-do Im sure they elect to take the wind quarters 1 and 3 vs 2 and 4. Fitz threw the ball fine when we had the wind at our back.

[slats]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Ok? Still not addressing you were wrong about the wind. If the Jets had a re-do Im sure they elect to take the wind quarters 1 and 3 vs 2 and 4. Fitz threw the ball fine when we had the wind at our back.

He completed 43% of his passes on the day, and I think it's a stretch to suggest that fourth quarter meltdown was the wind. 

I don't recall who won the toss that day, lol. Do they choose which endzone to defend over whether to kick or receive to open the game in a redo? I don't know, man. Good to know he was throwing well with the wind at his back, though. 

[UpstateJetsGuru]

14 minutes ago, slats said:

The Bills leading rusher that day was Tyrod Taylor. Their second leading rusher gained 28 yards on 24 carries. So yeah, obviously they were leaning heavily on their ground game. Not sure what you mean by rating, but Fitz had a 42.7 passer rating that day, and Taylor had an 82.7. 

Yes. I meant during the season. It was just perplexing that the Jets kept conceding short pass after short pass and not even contesting receivers. Come on Salas? Greg Salas beating our vaunted corners. Tyrod Taylor is a classic high percentage, low risk QB. He won't lose many games, but won't win you many either. He did not throw many TD's on the year and rarely makes big throws downfield, even with Sammy Watkins and Charles Clay. He had a high QB rating because he feasted on short passes and didn't turn the ball over a lot. He was staked to a big lead in that final game and ended up winning primarily because the Jets imploded at the end.

[cant wait]

44 minutes ago, UpstateJetsGuru said:

You may have something of a point there. You do make some very solid posts. Some of that may be a product of playing behind poor offensive lines and his desire not to take sacks and get the ball out quickly. It works an awful lot of the time, but occasionally when the defense makes a very good read, he can get into trouble. I think Fitz showed some ability to adapt as he occasionally moved in the pocket and found secondary receivers. I think you will see the same thing in Tom Brady as well, as he is a short rhythm passer with a lot of predetermined snaps, but the Pats o-line allows him to be more patient and throw off of initial reads. Some QB's make multiple reads, yet take tons of sacks and don't have Fitz's pre-snap acumen. Chan seems fine with it, and it ultimately plays as both a strength and a kweakness. Truth is Fitz played lights out down the stretch, but it didn't happen for him in the last quarter of the season. 

OL can definitely be improved and clady could very well be an upgrade over brick last season. I actually think fitz shows impressive field vision as a runner, he's not the fastest guy but when he takes off it tends to be a positive play. the lack of reliable secondary options in the passing game was definitely an issue last season too, with a full season of powell/forte/amaro gailey now can be a lot more creative with the route combinations so it's not just marshall/decker all day. as soon as they signed forte I thought that he was a perfect safety valve for a guy like fitz, especially on 3rd down which he struggled with last season 

[UpstateJetsGuru]

19 minutes ago, cant wait said:

OL can definitely be improved and clady could very well be an upgrade over brick last season. I actually think fitz shows impressive field vision as a runner, he's not the fastest guy but when he takes off it tends to be a positive play. the lack of reliable secondary options in the passing game was definitely an issue last season too, with a full season of powell/forte/amaro gailey now can be a lot more creative with the route combinations so it's not just marshall/decker all day. as soon as they signed forte I thought that he was a perfect safety valve for a guy like fitz, especially on 3rd down which he struggled with last season 

Agreed...on all points

[MaxAF]

Ya gotta like Fitz. He's a good guy. Has the respect of the players. The bottom line is the Jets will win games this year because of the combined talent that the team has. Jets don't have the luxury of a top 10 QB. Fitz won't run the 2 minute drill like a Brady or a Rodgers. He is who he is...you can add up all the numbers and stats and it equals.... a good journeyman QB. He's steady, gutsy and leaves it all on the field. You can't ask for more. Just hope it's enough.

[Integrity28]

4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I don't think anyone has called him a good QB, obviously he has mostly struggled for us.  I think some folks want to see him play w/ the talent we have now.  

Wanting to see him is fine, and s justifiable curiosity.

Arguing about the outcome of him playing in hypotheticals, as though they are absolutes is an entirely different thing.

If we look like sh*t by week 10, and can't compete I want to see Grno, Hack and Petty get real reps, personally.

 

[Pac]

2 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

proof that Jets fans watch so little of the rest of the NFL . Yes even the Great QB's do not throw much against the wind. Its a wonder why coaches try to get the ball with the wind in the 4th quarter. Why would they do such a stupid thing since it makes no sense to Slats if the QB has a great arm. Did you ever in your life throw a football into the wind ? Its extremely difficult and its also a crap shoot with wind gusts.

Smash stop.. I was at the Buffalo game..  It was really f'in cold but it wasn't especially windy.

[AFJF]

2 minutes ago, Pac said:

Smash stop.. I was at the Buffalo game..  It was really f'in cold but it wasn't especially windy.

Have you watched it on TV?  I was at the game as well, and watched it again a couple weeks ago.  They showed the flags blowing above the stadium and talked about how the wind gusts whip through the stadium at field level worse than it looks.  I believe they said on the field it was gusting between 25-30 MPH.

[Integrity28]

Just now, AFJF said:

Have you watched it on TV?  I was at the game as well, and watched it again a couple weeks ago.  They showed the flags blowing above the stadium and talked about how the wind gusts whip through the stadium at field level worse than it looks.  I believe they said on the field it was gusting between 25-30 MPH.

Yeah but Pac's skirt didn't blow up, so clearly not windy.

[Pac]

Just now, AFJF said:

Have you watched it on TV?  I was at the game as well, and watched it again a couple weeks ago.  They showed the flags blowing above the stadium and talked about how the wind gusts whip through the stadium at field level worse than it looks.  I believe they said on the field it was gusting between 25-30 MPH.

I recall there being a couple gusts here and there but it was not the sustained mini tropical storm Smash keeps trying to portray.  It was not the reason for Fitz poor play.  He's capable of that performance in ideal conditions.

[AFJF]

Just now, Pac said:

I recall there being a couple gusts here and there but it was not the sustained mini tropical storm Smash keeps trying to portray.  It was not the reason for Fitz poor play.  He's capable of that performance in ideal conditions.

I only know what the analysts were saying and they said the gusts on the field were between 25-30 MPH.  I don't think they had any reason to lie about how windy it was.  

[Pac]

4 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I only know what the analysts were saying and they said the gusts on the field were between 25-30 MPH.  I don't think they had any reason to lie about how windy it was.  

yes, gusts.

gust: :  a sudden brief rush of wind

meaning the overwhelming majority of the time the wind should not have been a factor.

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, Pac said:

yes, gusts.

gust: :  a sudden brief rush of wind

meaning the overwhelming majority of the time the wind should not have been a factor.

Oh, so now we'll pretend to know how long and when they took place.  Cool.   Was just trying to add a bit of factual objectivity.

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, Pac said:

yes, gusts.

gust: :  a sudden brief rush of wind

meaning the overwhelming majority of the time the wind should not have been a factor.

Awful.

Like countering a jab, by punching yourself in the dick.

[Pac]

Just now, AFJF said:

Oh, so now we'll pretend to know how long and when they took place.  Cool.   Was just trying to add a bit of factual objectivity.

Again, I was there.  Not sure why that's being lost in this discussion.  I know you were there as well but I'd suggest you might be pulling a Clemens and misremembering.

[Pac]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Awful.

Like countering a jab, by punching yourself in the dick.

You saw flags waving too?  I guess you have a better idea of what was going on from your room at Broadmoor than I did sitting in section 115.

 

[Integrity28]

16 minutes ago, Pac said:

You saw flags waving too?  I guess you have a better idea of what was going on from your room at Broadmoor than I did sitting in section 115.

 

Another self dick punch.

[Pac]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

Another self dick punch.

I accept your surrender.

[JohnnyLV]

9 hours ago, Jetlife33 said:

I've said this before but I've never rooted harder for a Jets QB before Fitz. I think his under dog story and certain limitations have something to do with it, but like you said the dude is just a likable guy. Leaves it all on the field, teammates love him, family guy, etc. I hope he can replicate his success last year (minus the last game), I'm not necessarily "expecting" him to, but I honestly think he can. 

And not a single valid reason to like a QB.

I would be super optimistic about the season if it wasnt for this JAG fraud.

 

[BUM-KNEE]

51 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Awful.

Like countering a jab, by punching yourself in the dick.

Holy chit I spat mucho mango all over my monitor!!

LMMFAO!!!!!!!!

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

I only know what the analysts were saying and they said the gusts on the field were between 25-30 MPH.  I don't think they had any reason to lie about how windy it was.  

wait stop PAC said that I said it was a mini tropical storm so there's that .

[Smashmouth]

56 minutes ago, Pac said:

Again, I was there.  Not sure why that's being lost in this discussion.  I know you were there as well but I'd suggest you might be pulling a Clemens and misremembering.

I had season tickets at Shea Stadium for years growing up and the wind in stadiums can vary greratly from where you sit to what happens on the field to whats happening on the other side of the stadium I thought you would know this rather than using you're "I was there crap" AFJF was also there and Im guessing the announcers had weather reports and data to go by as well. Either way It does not refute that the Jets had no check down options for Fitz other than Steven Ridley He was once again as he was most of the year forced to go to WR's that were being covered fairly well by the Bills game plan. There were obviously things going on You choose to just dismiss to make an argument go in your favor. Not to mention Rex's percentage of shutting down QB's at a pretty good percentage. Also the 2 TD drives led by Fitz were pretty good as were the throws he made on the TD passes. The team came out flat in a game they could have punched Buffalo in the face early and probably dominated from that point on if they did so due to Buffalo being out of the playoff hunt. Whilt Fitz didn't play particularly well neither did the whole football team. We had our chances as a team and we blew it as a team

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, Pac said:

yes, gusts.

gust: :  a sudden brief rush of wind

meaning the overwhelming majority of the time the wind should not have been a factor.

So in PAC's world there are gusts then the wind Dies down to zero then another gust. My guess is the wind was probably blowing at 10 to 20 which even in 10 MPH wind throwing a football into that is not easy you should try it sometime then put the wind at your back and see the difference.

[Jetlife33]

40 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

And not a single valid reason to like a QB.

I would be super optimistic about the season if it wasnt for this JAG fraud.

 

Reads progressions well, goes through reads quickly, rarely gets sacked, not afraid to step up in the pocket, etc. Sure he doesn't have a strong arm but he knows the playbook inside out, gets the ball to the teams best playmakers and does a lot of the little things right. 

[cant wait]

25 minutes ago, Jetlife33 said:

Reads progressions well, goes through reads quickly, 

You mean fitzpatrick? because that's exactly what he doesn't do. he's good at reading defenses pre-snap and predetermines his throws based on what the defense is showing. you rarely see him move his head once the ball is snapped, and is more likely to take off running than go through progressions

[Jetlife33]

4 minutes ago, cant wait said:

You mean fitzpatrick? because that's exactly what he doesn't do. he's good at reading defenses pre-snap and predetermines his throws based on what the defense is showing. you rarely see him move his head once the ball is snapped, and is more likely to take off running than go through progressions

I feel like he does both fairly well. Not afraid to throw the ball to his back if his first option isn't there. Part of why I think Forte was a great pickup, also if Amaro can come on strong that would be another "safety valve" type player for him.