FloridaJetsFan Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Gotta keep this visible is all so any of the Jets/media lurkers see it. We need this front and center and we need this to pick up steam. The media is already starting to go after Mac(thank you Rex). Even though EVERY thread goes into detail why he should be fired, I wanted a thread title to keep bumping and stay visible. Even if you are unsure about Mac(the 1%), keeping him hinders the head coach search and that reason ALONE is enough to move on from him.......that and all of the other things that he has done wrong. I don’t want a desperate/clueless GM spending on the wrong players in an effort to save himself either so.....yeah. Can’t draft, can’t scout, no backbone, no foresight, screws up all large free agent signings. Firing Mac should be the focus of the fans at this point so we can push this over the top (and him off a cliff). The future may be bright but ONLY if we get past this next obstacle. Your vision is enviable!Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 On 5/18/2021 at 10:26 AM, slats said: This is exactly what good GMs do, though. No one has an OL made up exclusively of firsts, seconds, and high priced free agents. Like Idzik he had a good idea, he was just completely incapable of executing it. Joe Douglas has his Brick/Mangold now, I'll be pissed if he dips into the OL well in the first round for the third time in a row next year. It's also why I wasn't thrilled with the trade up. That third round had guys who could start this year or next on the OL. He picked up a couple promising UDFAs, though. That's the way you should be doing it, especially on the interior line. Right but you still have to use a lot of picks to find OL if you're going to go with middle/late round picks only. You can't trust your scouting so much that you just assume you are always finding diamonds in the rough in the middle rounds. Macc only used 3 picks (Jarvis Harrison - Rd 5; Brandon Shell - Rd 5; Chuma Edoga - Rd 3) on Offensive Linemen in his entire tenure. Completely unacceptable. If you're going to be a middle round OL guy, you have to use multiple picks on the OL nearly every season to build a potential pipeline. He should have ended up drafting more like 7-8 OL prospects in his 5 years here, not 3. And out of those 7-8 you can reasonably expect to find no more than 3 starters, and hope that of the other 4-5 you get 2-3 decent backups. You have to expect at least 1-2 will bust completely. The 1 of the 3 OL Macc took busted (Harrison) and another may well be headed in that direction (Edoga), so clearly he was not good at finding mid-round OL. Meanwhile, it is very rare that you can wait until the middle rounds to find a Left Tackle, and you can't really use band-aid options at that position either like Macc opted to do with Ryan Clady and Kelvin Beachum (the former being a complete disaster, the latter being a "meh" starting LT). If you need a LT, and you want a high-caliber one at that, you have to bite the bullet and draft one early, almost always in the 1st round or very early in the 2nd. When you look at the 32 starting LT's in the league at the moment (according to current depth charts), this was where each was drafted: Trent Williams (SF): Pick 1.4 David Bakhtiari (GB): 4.109 Laremy Tunsil (HOU): 1.13 Ronnie Stanley (BAL): 1.6 Kolton Miller (LV): 1.15 Garett Bolles (DEN): 1.20 Taylor Lewan (TEN): 1.11 Donovan Smith (TB): 2.34 Taylor Decker (DET): 1.16 D.J. Humphries (AZ): 1.24 Dion Dawkins (BUF): 2.63 Jake Matthews (ATL): 1.6 Cam Robinson (JAX): 2.34 Terron Armstead (NO): 3.75 Tyron Smith (DAL): 1.9 Duane Brown (SEA): 1.26 Andrew Whitworth (LAR): 2.55 Eric Fisher (IND): 1.1 Andrew Thomas (NYG): 1.4 Riley Reiff (CIN) : 1.23 Jedrick Wills (CLE): 1.10 Mekhi Becton (NYJ): 1.11 Rashawn Slater (LAC): 1.13 Austin Jackson (MIA): 1.18 Christian Darrisaw (MIN): 1.23 Charles Leno (WAS): 7.246 Andre Dillard (PHI): 1.22 Isaiah Wynn (NE): 1.23 Teven Jenkins (CHI): 2.39 Greg Little (CAR): 2.37 Chukwuma Okorafor (PIT): 3.92 Orlando Brown (KC): 3.83 So of the 32 starting LT's, only 7 (Bakhtiari, Dawkins, Whitworth, Armstead, Okorafor, Leno, Orlando Brown) were picked outside of the first 40 selections of the draft. And of those 7, Dawkins was listed as a G when he was drafted, which at least partly explains why he wasn't taken earlier; he ended up a LT from the jump with Buffalo. Okorafor was a RT for the Steelers last year and is making the move to LT out of necessity; we'll see how he performs for the first time here in year 4 of his career. And we all know the story behind Orlando Brown's desire to switch to LT after being drafted as a RT. You can go cheap at the other 4 OL spots, but you have to take a lot of them in those middle rounds to find the gems. And at LT, rarely can you go cheap there and have it work out. Perhaps it wasn't wise for Douglas to trade up for a G. But I'd of course rather him over-prioritize or over-draft the OL at times than neglect it like Maccagnan did. And while you say those 3rd rounders he passed on could have ended up starters, we really have no idea if that will be the case. Especially not in a year where we had a global pandemic and scouting mid/late round caliber prospects was more difficult than usual. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker89 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Guys he is here.... 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said: Right but you still have to use a lot of picks to find OL if you're going to go with middle/late round picks only. You can't trust your scouting so much that you just assume you are always finding diamonds in the rough in the middle rounds. Macc only used 3 picks (Jarvis Harrison - Rd 5; Brandon Shell - Rd 5; Chuma Edoga - Rd 3) on Offensive Linemen in his entire tenure. Completely unacceptable. If you're going to be a middle round OL guy, you have to use multiple picks on the OL nearly every season to build a potential pipeline. He should have ended up drafting more like 7-8 OL prospects in his 5 years here, not 3. And out of those 7-8 you can reasonably expect to find no more than 3 starters, and hope that of the other 4-5 you get 2-3 decent backups. You have to expect at least 1-2 will bust completely. The 1 of the 3 OL Macc took busted (Harrison) and another may well be headed in that direction (Edoga), so clearly he was not good at finding mid-round OL. Meanwhile, it is very rare that you can wait until the middle rounds to find a Left Tackle, and you can't really use band-aid options at that position either like Macc opted to do with Ryan Clady and Kelvin Beachum (the former being a complete disaster, the latter being a "meh" starting LT). If you need a LT, and you want a high-caliber one at that, you have to bite the bullet and draft one early, almost always in the 1st round or very early in the 2nd. When you look at the 32 starting LT's in the league at the moment (according to current depth charts), this was where each was drafted: Trent Williams (SF): Pick 1.4 David Bakhtiari (GB): 4.109 Laremy Tunsil (HOU): 1.13 Ronnie Stanley (BAL): 1.6 Kolton Miller (LV): 1.15 Garett Bolles (DEN): 1.20 Taylor Lewan (TEN): 1.11 Donovan Smith (TB): 2.34 Taylor Decker (DET): 1.16 D.J. Humphries (AZ): 1.24 Dion Dawkins (BUF): 2.63 Jake Matthews (ATL): 1.6 Cam Robinson (JAX): 2.34 Terron Armstead (NO): 3.75 Tyron Smith (DAL): 1.9 Duane Brown (SEA): 1.26 Andrew Whitworth (LAR): 2.55 Eric Fisher (IND): 1.1 Andrew Thomas (NYG): 1.4 Riley Reiff (CIN) : 1.23 Jedrick Wills (CLE): 1.10 Mekhi Becton (NYJ): 1.11 Rashawn Slater (LAC): 1.13 Austin Jackson (MIA): 1.18 Christian Darrisaw (MIN): 1.23 Charles Leno (WAS): 7.246 Andre Dillard (PHI): 1.22 Isaiah Wynn (NE): 1.23 Teven Jenkins (CHI): 2.39 Greg Little (CAR): 2.37 Chukwuma Okorafor (PIT): 3.92 Orlando Brown (KC): 3.83 So of the 32 starting LT's, only 7 (Bakhtiari, Dawkins, Whitworth, Armstead, Okorafor, Leno, Orlando Brown) were picked outside of the first 40 selections of the draft. And of those 7, Dawkins was listed as a G when he was drafted, which at least partly explains why he wasn't taken earlier; he ended up a LT from the jump with Buffalo. Okorafor was a RT for the Steelers last year and is making the move to LT out of necessity; we'll see how he performs for the first time here in year 4 of his career. And we all know the story behind Orlando Brown's desire to switch to LT after being drafted as a RT. You can go cheap at the other 4 OL spots, but you have to take a lot of them in those middle rounds to find the gems. And at LT, rarely can you go cheap there and have it work out. Perhaps it wasn't wise for Douglas to trade up for a G. But I'd of course rather him over-prioritize or over-draft the OL at times than neglect it like Maccagnan did. And while you say those 3rd rounders he passed on could have ended up starters, we really have no idea if that will be the case. Especially not in a year where we had a global pandemic and scouting mid/late round caliber prospects was more difficult than usual. The only reason at all that I'm ok with it isn't even merely that AVT is supposed to be all that, but more because the Jets were in a 2-year span with at least 3 years' worth of draft picks. At some point drafting more - all at once - might have a diminishing return: how many rookies are likely to see the field? Absent having this many picks I'd be furious trading, in an iOL-rich draft, a solid-enough 1st rounder plus a high 3rd plus another 3rd to move up to #14 for a guard. Basically AVT has to be elite - not pretty good; elite - for this to be worthwhile. His billing suggests there's good reason to think he will be, but he has to actually do it on the field. Also a lot of the criticism is based on availability in hindsight. It's quite possible Douglas wouldn't have made that trade-up if he knew how the draft was going to unfold. I'm sure he'd say otherwise now, but we'll never know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: The only reason at all that I'm ok with it isn't even merely that AVT is supposed to be all that, but more because the Jets were in a 2-year span with at least 3 years' worth of draft picks. At some point drafting more - all at once - might have a diminishing return: how many rookies are likely to see the field? Absent having this many picks I'd be furious trading, in an iOL-rich draft, a solid-enough 1st rounder plus a high 3rd plus another 3rd to move up to #14 for a guard. Basically AVT has to be elite - not pretty good; elite - for this to be worthwhile. His billing suggests there's good reason to think he will be, but he has to actually do it on the field. Also a lot of the criticism is based on availability in hindsight. It's quite possible Douglas wouldn't have made that trade-up if he knew how the draft was going to unfold. I'm sure he'd say otherwise now, but we'll never know. I hear ya. All of this is fair. Having stockpiled picks gave Douglas the ability to trade up for a player he truly seemed to love. As long as he ends up an elite G like you say, I'll be happy. Merely good or worse and it will have ended up a very bad trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSNY Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said: I hear ya. All of this is fair. Having stockpiled picks gave Douglas the ability to trade up for a player he truly seemed to love. As long as he ends up an elite G like you say, I'll be happy. Merely good or worse and it will have ended up a very bad trade. Hopefully AVT ends up being our Quentin Nelson or a reasonable facsimile of him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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