Idea for MLB

[section314]

With the news yesterday that the start of the regular season will be pushed back at least two weeks, here's an idea that could possibly deal with two issues. When the season gets the ok to begin, have all teams make up as many as possible  division games lost due to the delay with old fashioned double headers later in the season. They could be on Sundays, like they were when those of us who are probably 45+ years of age were kids, or during the week like the old  Twi- night DH"s, that started at 5 pm. These would be for division games only, as they are the most important, and they would be single ticket admission, not this day/night crap that was started years ago. This would be fair to all teams, as you would be playing only division opponents. The other thing that this could accomplish would be that it will be throwing "a bone" to fans after the horrible black eye this scandal has cast on baseball. It's not gonna make people forget, or even forgive, what happened, but it would send a message that baseball has a ton of work to do in the PR department. As they say, you have to spend money to make money.

[The Crimson King]

Good idea !  Has to be only the division games as they come back later in the year. It would create an imbalance in the number of games between all teams though and one off if-necessary makeups would be a logistical nightmare, but think of the division races at year end with this in place. It would require approval of what most of us view as an enabled union and greedy owners which would go a long way to dispel some of our discontent with the sport in that regard these days. 

There will not be much to discuss for awhile so the speculations will abound. My guess is that the schedule gets truncated like '81 and other strike years as the post season is already way too late in the year unless they hold the LCS and World Series in warm weather neutral sites,

Meanwhile I love the double header idea. The Mrs. not so much …

[Scott Dierking]

You would need to have the doubleheaders throughout the season. You can't stack them at the end of the year because of the strain on pitchers.

[section314]

19 minutes ago, The Crimson King said:

Good idea !  Has to be only the division games as they come back later in the year. It would create an imbalance in the number of games between all teams though and one off if-necessary makeups would be a logistical nightmare, but think of the division races at year end with this in place. It would require approval of what most of us view as an enabled union and greedy owners which would go a long way to dispel some of our discontent with the sport in that regard these days. 

There will not be much to discuss for awhile so the speculations will abound. My guess is that the schedule gets truncated like '81 and other strike years as the post season is already way too late in the year unless they hold the LCS and World Series in warm weather neutral sites,

Meanwhile I love the double header idea. The Mrs. not so much …

Realistically, probably the way they go.  Would LOVE the DH idea. Speaking of which, you may have had your season tix for this memory, or should I say, nightmare. Late July, 1984, big 4 game series vs Cubs at Shea. Think we may have been in first, still. Win Friday night, then blow Sat afternoon, think Sisk was brutal. My mom, dad, my then very pregnant wife( son # one born 3 weeks later) and I went out to the "Big Shea" to see a Sunday DH. We got swept, got swept in Chicago about a week later, and that was the end of that year.

[section314]

6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

You would need to have the doubleheaders throughout the season. You can't stack them at the end of the year because of the strain on pitchers.

Works for me. It might not be as difficult as it may seem. If it's only say, a 3 week delay, with the crazy schedule now, it may only be 6-9 games in the division, and they would probably be split pretty evenly home/away. May not be able to make up every one, but you could do a decent job getting a bunch.

[The Crimson King]

2 hours ago, section314 said:

Realistically, probably the way they go.  Would LOVE the DH idea. Speaking of which, you may have had your season tix for this memory, or should I say, nightmare. Late July, 1984, big 4 game series vs Cubs at Shea. Think we may have been in first, still. Win Friday night, then blow Sat afternoon, think Sisk was brutal. My mom, dad, my then very pregnant wife( son # one born 3 weeks later) and I went out to the "Big Shea" to see a Sunday DH. We got swept, got swept in Chicago about a week later, and that was the end of that year.

One of my favorite seasons. The Mrs' "rookie" year and the year right before season tx. Went to about 50 games anyway. Early on there was still GA in the Mezz and even when you went to the UD, you had a lot of room to yourself. 

The Gooden game on Friday was the first 50,000 plus crowd that would become common as the rest of the decade progressed. Certainly a different ballpark experience. I think I remember that Sisk and Gaff blew the game late in the next day (good for us that we  can still remember after all these years, no?). 

After the doubleheader loss, they were still in first place by a bit. Then they went on a roadtrip. I remember that because we followed them out there. After getting swept in St, Louis they dropped out of first. We caught up with them in Pittsburgh  on the Friday where they lost one more and were reeling.  They won the next three in close exciting games and headed into Chicago only a half game down. 

Wrigley and surrounds were going crazy. All four games were sold out. The had "Metsbusters" merchandise everywhere and their version of the song blasting out of speakers. Cubs fans were trash talking anyone who walked by in Mets gear. Gooden started the first game after getting clobbered in St, Louis. He gave up a whole bunch of extra base hits and got his clock cleaned here too. Game over early. I think it was his last bad game until July 1986 or so. The next day was also over early with Darling giving up a bunch of runs. Now they were two and half out with a doubleheader on Wednesday. Fans were really getting feisty at this point and there was an incident as a bunch of them came up behind the Mets dugout and poured beer on the players. Many carried brooms and were getting into fights in the stands swinging these things. The Mets got behind big in both of these games too.  Like you said, effectively the first pennant race in a dozen years ended. I still remember that series as the most disappointing that I've ever been to. We did, however, have some excellent sausage and peppers sandwiches at the place just outside Wrigley though.   

Thanks for reminding me of this. At lot of other things happened on our trip and the Mrs. and I just had a nice jog down memory lane talking about it. 

One last recollection. At the end of the season, the crowds had mostly gone, but were still way bigger than the previous decade. The Cubs won their game and clinched the pennant. They announced it on the diamond vision with congrats to the winner. Then something happened that I doubt would occur today. One by one people got to their feet and applauded. A LGM chant started up and went quite some time. We were celebrating the season and the fact that the team was finally back. One of my favorite moments at Shea.

[section314]

18 hours ago, The Crimson King said:

One of my favorite seasons. The Mrs' "rookie" year and the year right before season tx. Went to about 50 games anyway. Early on there was still GA in the Mezz and even when you went to the UD, you had a lot of room to yourself. 

The Gooden game on Friday was the first 50,000 plus crowd that would become common as the rest of the decade progressed. Certainly a different ballpark experience. I think I remember that Sisk and Gaff blew the game late in the next day (good for us that we  can still remember after all these years, no?). 

After the doubleheader loss, they were still in first place by a bit. Then they went on a roadtrip. I remember that because we followed them out there. After getting swept in St, Louis they dropped out of first. We caught up with them in Pittsburgh  on the Friday where they lost one more and were reeling.  They won the next three in close exciting games and headed into Chicago only a half game down. 

Wrigley and surrounds were going crazy. All four games were sold out. The had "Metsbusters" merchandise everywhere and their version of the song blasting out of speakers. Cubs fans were trash talking anyone who walked by in Mets gear. Gooden started the first game after getting clobbered in St, Louis. He gave up a whole bunch of extra base hits and got his clock cleaned here too. Game over early. I think it was his last bad game until July 1986 or so. The next day was also over early with Darling giving up a bunch of runs. Now they were two and half out with a doubleheader on Wednesday. Fans were really getting feisty at this point and there was an incident as a bunch of them came up behind the Mets dugout and poured beer on the players. Many carried brooms and were getting into fights in the stands swinging these things. The Mets got behind big in both of these games too.  Like you said, effectively the first pennant race in a dozen years ended. I still remember that series as the most disappointing that I've ever been to. We did, however, have some excellent sausage and peppers sandwiches at the place just outside Wrigley though.   

Thanks for reminding me of this. At lot of other things happened on our trip and the Mrs. and I just had a nice jog down memory lane talking about it. 

One last recollection. At the end of the season, the crowds had mostly gone, but were still way bigger than the previous decade. The Cubs won their game and clinched the pennant. They announced it on the diamond vision with congrats to the winner. Then something happened that I doubt would occur today. One by one people got to their feet and applauded. A LGM chant started up and went quite some time. We were celebrating the season and the fact that the team was finally back. One of my favorite moments at Shea.

I remember that as well. This is a great post.....thanks for sharing. You and the Mrs. stay healthy.

[Philc1]

Start games at the end of May and contract the season to 120 games

[Philc1]

On 3/13/2020 at 12:30 PM, section314 said:

Works for me. It might not be as difficult as it may seem. If it's only say, a 3 week delay, with the crazy schedule now, it may only be 6-9 games in the division, and they would probably be split pretty evenly home/away. May not be able to make up every one, but you could do a decent job getting a bunch.

We’ll be lucky if it’s only a 6-8 week delay

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Start games at the end of May and contract the season to 120 games

I think this is probably the best case scenario. I don't see how they are starting in April. Would love it if they did. Best case seems to be May 1st starts new mini spring training.

[Philc1]

16 hours ago, Maxman said:

I think this is probably the best case scenario. I don't see how they are starting in April. Would love it if they did. Best case seems to be May 1st starts new mini spring training.

I’ll go nuts if we have no baseball this summer

[JustEndTheSuffering]

2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I’ll go nuts if we have no baseball this summer

That’s a frightening thought.

[CrazyCarl40]

They’ll be lucky to start in like, June. 

[The Crimson King]

So by the time they start up again they almost have to do spring training all over again if for no other reason than they need to get the pitchers back in shape. If this goes into late June or early July, does it make sense to do it in Florida/Arizona? Why not let the minor leaguers stay at the complex and have the MLB players train locally? The Yankees could use the Staten Island facility and the Mets Brooklyn. If nothing else it would generate interest. 

Wadda ya think?

[Philc1]

In a couple months we will be forced to go back to business as usual to avoid a crimewave 

[The Crimson King]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

In a couple months we will be forced to go back to business as usual to avoid a crimewave 

In certain corporate environments, business as usual is a crimewave 

[Philc1]

8 hours ago, The Crimson King said:

In certain corporate environments, business as usual is a crimewave 

Fair enough.  I’m already seeing people move out of their homes because they have no savings

[Maxman]

3 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Fair enough.  I’m already seeing people move out of their homes because they have no savings

You know people that have moved already?

[#27TheDominator]

On 3/16/2020 at 3:22 PM, Philc1 said:

I’ll go nuts if we have no baseball this summer

Since they first started cancelling games in the NBA, I've been telling my wife the leagues should start running video game events and televising them.  I'd watch.  NASCAR is actually doing it. 

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

14 hours ago, The Crimson King said:

In certain corporate environments, business as usual is a crimewave 

[Philc1]

11 hours ago, Maxman said:

You know people that have moved already?

I’m seeing it in the subdivision I live in

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

I’m seeing it in the subdivision I live in

Damn that was fast.

[chirorob]

On 3/23/2020 at 6:55 AM, Philc1 said:

Fair enough.  I’m already seeing people move out of their homes because they have no savings

I know people who just started a business barely a year ago.   It takes 6 months minimum to break even, by Nov, Dec, they were finally making money.  Now, they've laid off their entire staff, don't know if they can keep the building, they are out all the money for the equipment start up (it was a big trampoline park).  

As for me, I own my own business, spent most of my savings buying out my ex wife.   Now, my IRA is down 50%.  The well can run dry really fast.

[Philc1]

On 3/24/2020 at 11:01 AM, chirorob said:

I know people who just started a business barely a year ago.   It takes 6 months minimum to break even, by Nov, Dec, they were finally making money.  Now, they've laid off their entire staff, don't know if they can keep the building, they are out all the money for the equipment start up (it was a big trampoline park).  

As for me, I own my own business, spent most of my savings buying out my ex wife.   Now, my IRA is down 50%.  The well can run dry really fast.

S is really gonna hit the fan when retail businesses stop paying rent

[chirorob]

19 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

S is really gonna hit the fan when retail businesses stop paying rent

I own my business, I've been here for 12 years.  It's a chiropractic office (chiro rob), and in 10 days my office load has been cut by 50%, and is going down.   Out of 12 businesses in my center, 4 are open, the other 8 are shut down.   By next month, no one can pay rent.  Even if we are all able to re open in 6 weeks, every business here will have massive debt built up. 

I have so many patients either furloughed or who have lost their job, there will not be "back to normal" in 8 weeks.  

[Philc1]

9 hours ago, chirorob said:

I own my business, I've been here for 12 years.  It's a chiropractic office (chiro rob), and in 10 days my office load has been cut by 50%, and is going down.   Out of 12 businesses in my center, 4 are open, the other 8 are shut down.   By next month, no one can pay rent.  Even if we are all able to re open in 6 weeks, every business here will have massive debt built up. 

I have so many patients either furloughed or who have lost their job, there will not be "back to normal" in 8 weeks.  

I wonder what these businesses in Manhattan are gonna do their rent is like $30k a month

[The Crimson King]

On 3/28/2020 at 9:37 PM, Philc1 said:

I wonder what these businesses in Manhattan are gonna do their rent is like $30k a month

Leases will have to be renegotiated. It is not like there will be any demand for the properties and the lessors will not be able to afford the location to go dark. They have expenses like R/E taxes and insurance (if no lessee) to cover.

Another interesting question is what lenders are going to do. As long as you can cover interest a restructure is easy but once you start adding that to principal, it becomes a sort of equity in the business. As some point, the business owners have no choice but to walk away. In the worse cases, 11's turn into liquidating 11's and 7's. Jobs are lost and the spiral continues. 

Now what day is Soylent Green Day?

[The Crimson King]

One more thing,

Since this started as a MLB thread ...

Pro sports were already in long-term trouble. Salaries and building these cookie cutter old timey ballparks caused ticket prices to escalate to ridiculous levels. This was based on a business model of the wall-street-big-bonus-McMansion environments of the early '00's that collapsed in 2008. The idea was to replace Lunch Box Joe and his limited disposable income with the suits who would be willing to patronize the malls within the stadium. You were already seeing issues in the NFL stadiums and empty prime seats in baseball while the cheap seats were taken up (a wave from 500 level, row 17 here).

Now what happens? Other than the truncated schedule, many fans will have to cut back on non-essentials. Do we start seeing some of the weaker organizations start to fail? I shudder to think about the Wilpons, who already have had turnaround professionals in the Mets.

Anyone care to opine?

[#27TheDominator]

13 minutes ago, The Crimson King said:

One more thing,

Since this started as a MLB thread ...

Pro sports were already in long-term trouble. Salaries and building these cookie cutter old timey ballparks caused ticket prices to escalate to ridiculous levels. This was based on a business model of the wall-street-big-bonus-McMansion environments of the early '00's that collapsed in 2008. The idea was to replace Lunch Box Joe and his limited disposable income with the suits who would be willing to patronize the malls within the stadium. You were already seeing issues in the NFL stadiums and empty prime seats in baseball while the cheap seats were taken up (a wave from 500 level, row 17 here).

Now what happens? Other than the truncated schedule, many fans will have to cut back on non-essentials. Do we start seeing some of the weaker organizations start to fail? I shudder to think about the Wilpons, who already have had turnaround professionals in the Mets.

Anyone care to opine?

Opine?  My opine is that they weren't in trouble.  I have not checked, but I bet that profits were up. I complain about the same things as you, but I don't think that they were in trouble at all.  The current situation may change things, but I'm pretty sure they were planning to make more money in 2020 than in 2019.  Talking about the Mets like they are a major league franchise is a joke.  That isn't a slight on the Mets fans, but their post-Madoff situation is not exactly representative.

[chirorob]

On 4/1/2020 at 11:14 AM, The Crimson King said:

One more thing,

Since this started as a MLB thread ...

Pro sports were already in long-term trouble. Salaries and building these cookie cutter old timey ballparks caused ticket prices to escalate to ridiculous levels. This was based on a business model of the wall-street-big-bonus-McMansion environments of the early '00's that collapsed in 2008. The idea was to replace Lunch Box Joe and his limited disposable income with the suits who would be willing to patronize the malls within the stadium. You were already seeing issues in the NFL stadiums and empty prime seats in baseball while the cheap seats were taken up (a wave from 500 level, row 17 here).

Now what happens? Other than the truncated schedule, many fans will have to cut back on non-essentials. Do we start seeing some of the weaker organizations start to fail? I shudder to think about the Wilpons, who already have had turnaround professionals in the Mets.

Anyone care to opine?

Well, how does it work this year?

Do they pay the players salaries?   Do they get any TV money?   They won't sell tickets at the games.   I have a guy I know who is in the Marlins minor leagues, talking to him yesterday, he thinks its 50/50 they don't even have a season, best case maybe an 80 game season that ends late.  If that's the case, how many people are going to a baseball game in Chicago, Milwak, or Minnesota in mid November?

How about the Rangers, who just built a brand new stadium?  They NEED some butts in seats to start paying that thing off.   Teams could lose tens of millions to over a hundred million each. 

[Philc1]

On 4/1/2020 at 12:14 PM, The Crimson King said:

One more thing,

Since this started as a MLB thread ...

Pro sports were already in long-term trouble. Salaries and building these cookie cutter old timey ballparks caused ticket prices to escalate to ridiculous levels. This was based on a business model of the wall-street-big-bonus-McMansion environments of the early '00's that collapsed in 2008. The idea was to replace Lunch Box Joe and his limited disposable income with the suits who would be willing to patronize the malls within the stadium. You were already seeing issues in the NFL stadiums and empty prime seats in baseball while the cheap seats were taken up (a wave from 500 level, row 17 here).

Now what happens? Other than the truncated schedule, many fans will have to cut back on non-essentials. Do we start seeing some of the weaker organizations start to fail? I shudder to think about the Wilpons, who already have had turnaround professionals in the Mets.

Anyone care to opine?

True.  Even before coronavirus the pro sports league model was of everyone trying to copy the Knicks and Lakers to phase out blue collar fans with Wall Street yuppies and other 1 percenters

 

that doesn’t work in most markets.   It didn’t even really work for the yankees as the expensive seats behind home plate were always empty.  Luckily the Yankees are the Yankees and the rest of the stadium was still filled

 

MLB and NFL both need to have their seasons just to at least recoup the tv money.

 

[Philc1]

On 4/2/2020 at 12:39 PM, chirorob said:

Well, how does it work this year?

Do they pay the players salaries?   Do they get any TV money?   They won't sell tickets at the games.   I have a guy I know who is in the Marlins minor leagues, talking to him yesterday, he thinks its 50/50 they don't even have a season, best case maybe an 80 game season that ends late.  If that's the case, how many people are going to a baseball game in Chicago, Milwak, or Minnesota in mid November?

How about the Rangers, who just built a brand new stadium?  They NEED some butts in seats to start paying that thing off.   Teams could lose tens of millions to over a hundred million each. 

Like everything it all depends on the CBAs of the particular leagues.  Also, some player contracts may have force majeure contracts that get the team off the hook or paying during an emergency