flgreen Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: Without context, that is meaningless. What assumptions are you making about the ones that were armed? Were they pointing their guns at cops, or did they have a registered gun in their glove compartment? This breakdown would imply there is a lot more we need to know about those armed men who were killed, and that even without that information, there was STILL evidence of implicit bias. These numbers indicate that cops perceive an armed black or hispanic man as more dangerous than an armed white man: And that's why I didn't want to post a link with the stats. Every article I read had an agenda. What you posted is a very strong indication of the proplem. A lot of Black communites are terrorized by street gangs, and there is a lot of violent confrontations with the police. The police react, which causes fear and hatred. innocent people get caught up in it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: This is dismissive of the problem at hand. The black community is well aware of the issues they have, and some of them (like the school-to-prison pipeline) are not the fault of the community itself. Black people are not innately evil or more dangerous than white people. And I can use those statistics against you too by pointing out all the black-on-black crime that the "All Lives Matter" crew loves to throw out there. White cops should have no reason to be more "afraid" of a person of color than anyone else. And none of that excuses or explain away why it is, on average, more dangerous to be a person of color than a white person in an interaction with police. It's not about being afraid, if a higher percentage are involved with violent crime that would mean a higher percentage of force would be needed, right? I don't make blanket statements about any race. I'm just responding and adding to the numbers discussion. I don't excuse anything, no person should be harassed based on their race, gender, sexuality, religion, etc... I do believe black Americans face more harassment from police even though there's not concrete data on that but this discussion was about killings from police. What happened to Floyd was murder, that doesn't mean others were not a correct use of force- we'd have to look at each case individually. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14 in Green Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 hours ago, freestater said: Where does this leave those who held a belief, but through educating themselves and learning from others' perspectives that the beliefs they held may have been incorrect, harmful or even atrocious? Are these people worthy of disrespect? No, you should never, ever want to grow as a person. Listening, evolving, evaluating and changing ones opinion? Not acceptable. ? Seriously though, I hope you realize I'm talking about a person who believes what they said, but is pressured by others to change his view by public sentiment, or financial reasons.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, 68JET11 said: So it was just one example, but there are other, like when I was in HS, and my best friend from going to NJ All State Choir happened to be a black guy from Edison NJ, or my older sister in HS dating a black guy. I don't specifically talk to black people about racism, because I treat people as I want to be treated no matter what their color and vice versa. Again, I understand that racism is still a problem in America, but there are WAY more NON-racist people in my opinion, then are. As far as what to do no matter what your skin color is when being pulled over by the police, would be to listen and obey instead of running or acting out. Sorry, just how I feel. Any black person will tell you they don't want you to be color blind. They want you to recognize their "blackness", and understand that their experiences are different from yours. Avoiding those conversations may seem like the respectful thing to do, but its really not. Black people have been getting killed by cops even when they listen and obey, so that's an oversimplified and incorrect answer to the problem. You can say that racist people are in the vast minority. But even if that's true, if the non-racist people aren't actively seeking out solutions and doing just a little bit more to help, then nothing will change, and racism is still allowed to survive unchecked. Evil is allowed to triumph when good men do nothing. Apathy is the biggest enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, More Cowbell said: Because kneeling was never about disrespecting the flag. What don't you understand about that. Is it disrespectful on it's face. Yes, but anyone who ever listened to CK about why he was kneeling knows he wasn't doing it for that reason. That's his feelings though, he did say he supports his teammates and this cause. He didn't say for his teammates not to do it. 4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: And it ignores that it's pretty much impossible for people of color to have the same view of the flag as white people. The IDEA of America, that all people are created equal, and endowed by their Creator with inalienable rights, is a perfect idea. But it's one that has never been executed properly in the history of the nation. Juneteenth tends to mean FAR more to a black person than July 4th does. I think each individual person has a different association with what the flag represents for them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JustInFudge Posted June 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2020 Well, I guess one good unintended consequence of this is that we get to see how many real scumbags are on the board and wow, do we have a ton. Go figure this country is so ****ed. Unreal the misplaced outrage the ignorant display. Literally unreal. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanShawn Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 i think the wont be a playoff team in 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, 14 in Green said: No, you should never, ever want to grow as a person. Listening, evolving, evaluating and changing ones opinion? Not acceptable. ? Well that's exactly what Brees demonstrated. He hasn't grown. He's tone deaf. He doesn't have to give up his views on the flag. But he DOES need to confront the problem and consider that this is not about disrespecting the flag, its about ending police brutality, ending systemic racism, and uplifting the communities of people of color. These problems exist no matter what one believes about the flag. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68JET11 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said: Any black person will tell you they don't want you to be color blind. They want you to recognize their "blackness", and understand that their experiences are different from yours. Avoiding those conversations may seem like the respectful thing to do, but its really not. Black people have been getting killed by cops even when they listen and obey, so that's an oversimplified and incorrect answer to the problem. We might agree on a lot of football topics, but I don't agree with you here... Sorry, I don't believe most black people want you to recognize they are black. If more people started recognizing each other as HUMAN's and not skin color we all might be better off. I avoid those conversations, but it's not like I've never had them. And to say that just as many black people would get killed if they obey, is preposterous in my opinion. Do some yes, but those are BAD cops. There are many good COPS as well that would never display that behavior or action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj meadowlands Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Upset of the century is that this thread hasn't been locked yet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, JiF said: Well, I guess one good unintended consequence of this is that we get to see how many real scumbags are on the board and wow, do we have a ton. Go figure this country is so ****ed. Unreal the misplaced outrage the ignorant display. Literally unreal. I don't see many in here but there is one that could use a mirror 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said: Upset of the century is that this thread hasn't been locked yet Crusher is busy eating 3rd breakfast. Once he's done clogging up the toilet he'll get right on that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68JET11 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 16 minutes ago, JiF said: Well, I guess one good unintended consequence of this is that we get to see how many real scumbags are on the board and wow, do we have a ton. Go figure this country is so ****ed. Unreal the misplaced outrage the ignorant display. Literally unreal. What makes you not a scumbag or ignorant ? Just curious, not knowing who you directed that comment to... The people that are so ****ed up as you put it are the ones who believe they have the right to disobey the law, be violent and destroy other peoples property, not those who have honest discussions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, nyjunc said: I don't see many in here but there is one that could use a mirror Raising your hand and owning it? Good. That’s what your type do. Wouldn’t expect different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
More Cowbell Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 18 minutes ago, nyjunc said: That's his feelings though, he did say he supports his teammates and this cause. He didn't say for his teammates not to do it. I think each individual person has a different association with what the flag represents for them. Personally, I don't think CK was associating the flag with police brutality, I don't think he ever made that connection, I think it was just a way to get everyones attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, JiF said: Raising your hand and owning it? Good. That’s what your type do. Wouldn’t expect different. We were having a civil, productive discussion then you come and ruin it. Please leave so the adults can discuss things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, 68JET11 said: The people that are so ****ed up as you put it are the ones who believe they have the right to disobey the law, be violent and destroy other peoples property, not those who have honest discussions. "A riot is the language of the unheard." - Martin Luther King, 1967 Yes, it sucks that property is getting destroyed and things are getting violent. Especially since a lot of that is coming from people who don't care about the issue at hand. And even some of it is coming from the white nationalists themselves that are the crux of the problem. But do you know what else sucks? People of color getting killed in the streets and in their homes for no reason. Peaceful protest clearly doesn't seem to do a whole lot (and contrary to popular opinion, most of the protests across the 50 states were peaceful, or at least were INTENDED to be peaceful), so to an extent, I get it. Regardless of your feelings on that, focusing on the rioting/looting/violence is missing the mark on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, 68JET11 said: What makes you not a scumbag or ignorant ? Just curious, not knowing who you directed that comment to... The people that are so ****ed up as you put it are the ones who believe they have the right to disobey the law, be violent and destroy other peoples property, not those who have honest discussions. Where was the anger and rage when Arbery and Floyd were executed in broad day light for being black? Right. There wasn’t any. Good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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