Change my mind: Sam is the biggest bust in Jets history

[genot]

13 minutes ago, jgb said:

FQBs make their own weaponz, not the other way around. Austin Collie would be Braxton Berrios if he didn't play with Peyton Manning.

That's nonsense. You don't think Graham and Gronkowski made a difference in the success of their QB's. Please. If scouts and GM's felt that way, they'd wait till the late rounds to sign all their receivers. 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, genot said:

That's nonsense. You don't think Graham and Gronkowski made a difference in the success of their QB's. Please. If scouts and GM's felt that way, they'd wait till the late rounds to sign all their receivers. 

Slow down professor. No one said weaponz make no difference, just that the QB makes more of a difference by an exponential factor.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Saul Goodman said:

Unpopular opinion - Sam Darnold is the player we saw the second half of last year. His 13 TD/4 INT production from those 8 games can be replicated over full seasons on a team with good players and coaches (extrapolated to 26 TD/8 INT). We saw it in the final quarter of his rookie season as well. 

Does he get to face 6 of the 8 worst defenses in the league?

Even when you extrapolate those 8 games over a full season, Darnold was merely middle of the pack compared to QB's around the  league.  So the absolute best you'll ever see is Darnold playing like a league average QB against a bad defense.  Sweet!

[jgb]

27 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Yeah, I guess posting actual stats and discussing EVERY single player surrounding the two of them doesn't count for much, huh?

You think my post was directed at you? Interesting.

[Jetsfan80]

41 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Sam Darnold will be in the league in ten years. That doesn't make him the biggest bust in the Jets history.

Even if this ends up being true, how does it help the Jets that he stays in the league with other teams?

And in what role will he be in the league?  I think he ends up the next Sanchez, bouncing around to something like 4 other teams as a QB2/QB3.  Maybe he ends up more like Geno Smith, who proves to be a more capable QB2 option than Sanchez.  Is he not-a-bust if he's merely backup caliber?

[Gastineau Lives]

8 minutes ago, jgb said:

You make more assumptions than a government economist. I live in the real world. The show me world.

The real world is where one guy had the best offensive line, the other the worst. One guy had the best running game in football, the other the worst. One guy had a top ten receiving corp to throw to, the other guy the worst BY FAR. 

Yet the first guy put up WORSE stats than the second but I'm told he is actually BETTER than the other guy. In what bizarro world of reality would that make sense?

[jgb]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Even if this is true, how does it help the Jets that he stays in the league with other teams?

The main reason I pray Lawrence is a huge hit is so we don't have to dissect every Darnold career pass going forward.

[jgb]

Just now, Gastineau Lives said:

The real world is where one guy had the best offensive line, the other the worst. One guy had the best running game in football, the other the worst. One guy had a top ten receiving corp to throw to, the other guy the worst BY FAR. 

Yet the first guy put up WORSE stats than the second but I'm told he is actually BETTER than the other guy. In what bizarro world of reality would that make sense?

What are you arguing? That Darnold should get time-served credit for playing on a bad team and we should consider him a great QB?

[Jetsfan80]

40 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Thank you!!

No one was saying Darnold was a Bust when he was doing stuff like this....

 

Now folks act like this didn't happen...

 

Yes, they were.  Because a highlight reel of backyard plays does not a QB resume make.  It's the consistent, week in and week out, boring pocket passes that make a QB.  

[genot]

If your receivers are crap , you o- line is crap, your offense is crap. I don't care who the Quarterback is. Watson is a good QB, playing behind a better line, with a group of pretty good veteran receivers, who've managed to stay healthy for him.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Yes, they were.  Because a highlight reel of backyard plays does not a QB resume make.  It's the consistent, week in and week out, boring pocket passes that make a QB.  

Flashes I tell you, flashes! You know what else flashes? A gasoline fire.

[Gastineau Lives]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

You think my post was directed at you? Interesting.

You quoted him RESPONDING TO MY POST.

Holy. *******. sh*t.

[jgb]

Just now, genot said:

If your receivers are crap , you o- line is crap, your offense is crap. I don't care who the Quarterback is. Watson is a good QB, playing behind a better line, with a group of pretty good veteran receivers, who've managed to stay healthy for him.

Fine -- but that does not lead to the conclusion that Darnold is a secret-FQB-in-hiding.

[Gastineau Lives]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

What are you arguing? That Darnold should get time-served credit for playing on a bad team and we should consider him a great QB?

Yes, yes that is exactly what I'm saying. I'm currently lobbying for a Hall of Fame in Sheboygan for Great QB's in Bad Situations. It's going to have a wing called Bad QB's in AMAZING situations. Sanchez is the flagship inductee.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Gastineau Lives said:

You quoted him RESPONDING TO MY POST.

Holy. *******. sh*t.

It's still interesting.

[jgb]

Just now, Gastineau Lives said:

Yes, yes that is exactly what I'm saying. I'm currently lobbying for a Hall of Fame in Sheboygan for Great QB's in Bad Situations. 

I'm asking what your argument is. So what is it?

[Jetsfan80]

19 minutes ago, genot said:

That's nonsense. You don't think Graham and Gronkowski made a difference in the success of their QB's. Please. If scouts and GM's felt that way, they'd wait till the late rounds to sign all their receivers. 

lol, Jimmy Graham?  He was a 1st team All-Pro exactly once, despite playing with Brees, Wilson and Aaron Rodgers, and hasn't been relevant since 2016.  

Gronk I will give you.  He was an absolute game-changer and especially helped Brady as he got older.  But Brady had been having tremendous success well before Gronk.  Do you really think the likes of Ben Watson, Daniel Graham, Deion Branch, Troy Brown, Wes Welker and Julian Edelman were "special"?

If Darnold had those guys as his receiving options, undoubtedly there would be the same complaints/excuses people are making right now.  

[Gastineau Lives]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

It's still interesting.

You're interesting. 

[pdxgreen]

4 hours ago, rangerous said:

I don’t know. I think kellen Clemens or geno have to be up there is darnold is on the list.  And then there’s nagle. Granted these guys didn’t cost draft picks but they could’ve changed the team’s fortunes if they were any good.  Clemens could’ve stepped in for chaddy when he proved to be so fragile. Nagle could’ve made the whole boomer, O’Donnell trail irrelevant.  Geno could’ve beat out Sanchez and prevented fitzy from getting in by not being a punk.

Geno was most likely.  But it's hard to think of Clemens as a huge one.  To be a big bust you've got to have this large tag of potential attached to you.  Geno broke records at West Virginia.  Whereas Clemens wasn't even considered the most talented QB on his own team.  His last season Ducks fans were basically waiting to see what Dennis Dixon could do.  If anything I'd say he had a pretty decent career compare to what a lot of other QBs.  12 years in the league as a very decent backup. He may have been drafted too high.  But to be a huge bust you have to have his certain level of hype behind you.  Clemens I dont think ever had fhat.  He was just this farm boy from Burns who was a decent college QB.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Gastineau Lives said:

You're interesting. 

Sometimes being right just has to be its own reward around here. I can live with that.

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

The real world is where one guy had the best offensive line, the other the worst. One guy had the best running game in football, the other the worst. One guy had a top ten receiving corp to throw to, the other guy the worst BY FAR. 

Yet the first guy put up WORSE stats than the second but I'm told he is actually BETTER than the other guy. In what bizarro world of reality would that make sense?

 

We just saw a thread here yesterday suggesting we might be fine at WR with a trio of Crowder, Mims and Perriman.  Even if that trio is indeed the worst in the NFL, it's really not all that bad.  

What excuses will there be when Darnold sh*ts the bed, again, with all 3 of those guys healthy?  The O-Line would be my guess.

[Jetsfan80]

11 minutes ago, jgb said:

The main reason I pray Lawrence is a huge hit is so we don't have to dissect every Darnold career pass going forward.

It'll happen regardless.  It'll just be a lot more muted if Lawrence/Fields/whoever is awesome out of the gates.

[FidelioJet]

What the Jets did to Sam is far worse than what he did to the Jets.

[FidelioJet]

What the Jets did to Sam is far worse than what he did to the Jets.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

We just saw a thread here yesterday suggesting we might be fine at WR with a trio of Crowder, Mims and Perriman.  Even if that trio is indeed the worst in the NFL, it's really not all that bad.  

What excuses will there be when Darnold sh*ts the bed, again, with all 3 of those guys healthy?  The O-Line would be my guess.

Gase, Macc, phases of moon...

[Jetsfan80]

11 minutes ago, genot said:

If your receivers are crap , you o- line is crap, your offense is crap. I don't care who the Quarterback is. Watson is a good QB, playing behind a better line, with a group of pretty good veteran receivers, who've managed to stay healthy for him.

Our OL and WR's aren't as bad as you think.  And last I checked, QB's drive offenses in the NFL.  QB's lift up the play of their OL and WR's.  It's why the offense looked competent on Sunday even with Flacco's old, disinterested a$$ back there.  He's better than Darnold. 

We haven't seen the kind of deep ball accuracy that Flacco provided since Vinny T.

[Gastineau Lives]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

We just saw a thread here yesterday suggesting we might be fine at WR with a trio of Crowder, Mims and Perriman.  Even if that trio is indeed the worst in the NFL, it's really not all that bad.  

What excuses will there be when Darnold sh*ts the bed, again, with all 3 of those guys healthy?  The O-Line would be my guess.

Oh now we're predicting the future. Can you start a thread for that? This one is about things that have happened.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Our OL and WR's aren't as bad as you think.  And last I checked, QB's drive offenses in the NFL.  QB's lift up the play of their OL and WR's.  It's why the offense looked competent on Sunday even with Flacco's old, disinterested a$$ back there.  He's better than Darnold.  We haven't seen the kind of deep ball accuracy that Flacco provided since Vinny T.

Flacco is only the most recent fly in the Darnold proponents' ointment. A very inconvenient truth. 

Incredible how Darnold isn't even the best QB on the roster when we have a legitimate -- albeit broken-down -- QB backing him up.

[bla bla bla]

Not even close, Hackenberg has got to take the cake. If we draft literally any other position in that 2nd round we end up with Mahomes/Watson, Quenton Nelson and an additional 3 second round picks.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Gastineau Lives said:

Oh now we're predicting the future. Can you start a thread for that? This one is about things that have happened.

Yes, I'm predicting the future based on the tangible evidence we have.  Not hypotheticals that suggest Darnold is secretly good at football if only he had a Megatron.  

[Gastineau Lives]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

Sometimes being right just has to be its own reward around here. I can live with that.

You're a figment of my imagination, aren't you?

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Oh now we're predicting the future. Can you start a thread for that? This one is about things that have happened.

Park your Deloreon and tell us more about how Darnold is a secret-FQB-in-hiding.

[jgb]

Just now, Gastineau Lives said:

You're a figment of my imagination, aren't you?

You just insulted both of us  

[Gastineau Lives]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, I'm predicting the future based on the tangible evidence we have.  Not hypotheticals that suggest Darnold is secretly good at football if only he had a Megatron.  

Never said he was secretly good. There is not one thing I've said in this entire thread that suggested that. Argue the things I say, not things you want me to.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Never said he was secretly good. There is not one thing I've said in this entire thread that suggested that. Argue the things I say, not things you want me to.

You have yet to state what your actual argument is, despite several requests to do so.  So what is your argument?

Darnold > Sanchez.  Fine by me.  We've moved on from that.  What else are you arguing?