Change my mind: Sam is the biggest bust in Jets history

[Losmeister]

26 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Top half of the league. Also if we draft Lawrence or Justin field and we end up with this same thread in 3 year then it certainly indicates the Jets are the worst Jets bust in history. 

32 teams, middle is 16...   15,16,17 are the middle 3, i'd say 14 or above = well...   jus sayn

[Defense Wins Championships]

For Dewayne Robertson we ended up trading away two first-round picks (13th and 22nd) to the Chicago Bears in exchange for the fourth overall pick and we should've simply stayed put because with pick 13 Troy Polamalu was still available (went 16th overall) and with pick 22 Nnamdi Asomugha was still available (drafted 31st overall) and could you imagine those 2009 defenses with Revis/Nnamdi Asomugha/Troy Polamalu within the secondary? 

I'll always consider Vernon Gholston (3 years with 0 career sacks) Robertson (D-Slob) and TE Kyle Brady as the biggest Jet busts within my generation. 

Dee Milliner too. As an FSU fan I was screaming @ my TV to draft Xavier Rhodes who later went to the Vikings first round and went onto become one of the greatest NFL CB's. 

Something about Marcus Maye bothers me too. Everytime I see Dalvin Cook another FSU alumni destroying the league on offense it bothers me knowing that I was screaming @ my TV 2nd round for Dalvin Cook only to see him get drafted to the Vikings two picks later after we struck on on Maye. The Vikings always hit on our misses. 

Even though I've quit on Sam Darnold he isn't even close to being the Jets biggest bust at least he's got more TDs than INTs etc. 

[DetroitRed]

Who cares about your mind?

[munchmemory]

7 hours ago, jgb said:

I admit I was all on board the Sam train. Thought blind squirrel Macc got lucky as Hell. Of course I'm not paid $2 million a year to evaluate talent.

I was not from day one and took some mild heat for it at home and maybe here.  Just did not want to repeat the Sanchez blunder.  But here we were actually enthusiastic about picking a college QB (USC no less) who did not play a lot and had a history of turnovers.  What?  Again you morons?

And what better illustration of the point--and to once again prove the power of the SOJ--is that Darnold throws a pink 6 on his first NFL pass?  You could not script it any better.

I had Gholston as the biggest Jet bust.  But now?  No doubt it's Darnold.  Not only has he lived up to the appraisal of being inexperienced and a turnover machine, but has proven himself to be dumb and a constant injury liability.  And we moved up in the draft to be placed in this position. Just mind numbing.

[Jetster]

12 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Every time I look at darnold I see Quenton Nelson and 3 2nd Rd picks

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Colts also took Darius Leonard with the #2 we gave them. Would have saved us from the CJ Mosely splurge. Hindsight with the Jets is soooo depressing! 

[Jetster]

12 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Every time I look at darnold I see Quenton Nelson and 3 2nd Rd picks

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Colts also took Darius Leonard with the #2 we gave them. Would have saved us from the CJ Mosely splurge. Hindsight with the Jets is soooo depressing! 

[Jetster]

12 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Every time I look at darnold I see Quenton Nelson and 3 2nd Rd picks

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Colts also took Darius Leonard with the #2 we gave them. Would have saved us from the CJ Mosely splurge. Hindsight with the Jets is soooo depressing! 

[The Crusher]

18 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

32 teams, middle is 16...   15,16,17 are the middle 3, i'd say 14 or above = well...   jus sayn

14 above it is. Let me scribble it with a Sharpie on the bottom of one of my belly flaps, to protect it from the elements and we will judge this as it lies.,

[y2k8]

8 hours ago, jgb said:

The consensus before was Gholston -- undoubtedly a worse player than Darnold but once you weigh in what we gave up for Darnold, it's really not even close. Misplaced hope in Gholston also never caused us to pass on a FQB -- i.e., Ryan Tannehill like I banged the table for.

 

This is the sort of ridiculous hot take Rolling Stone magazine puts at the top of their "all time greatest" lists so that people talk about their stupid lists.

By this measure it would be Sanchize anyway for all of the reasons you just mentioned. He set the team back a decade and triggered this avalanche.

[y2k8]

9 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Colts also took Darius Leonard with the #2 we gave them. Would have saved us from the CJ Mosely splurge. Hindsight with the Jets is soooo depressing! 

what makes you think Mr Coffee would have taken him?  we would have had Josh Rosen.

[Sonny Werblin]

Quote

Change my mind: Sam is the biggest bust in Jets history

LOL! First, why would I have any desire or inclination to try to change your mind? It is a sports opinion which is the best kind of opinion because it literally harms no one.  Second, people who say this sort of thing no desire to have their mind changed. They just want to argue their point. Third, who cares. Unless Sam lights the NFL up after he returns, if the Jets are picking first or second in the draft, he will be traded. If the Jets are picking later than #2, Sam, bust or not, will be your 2021 NY Jets QB.

So, I fail to see why making any effort to change your mind as to a firmly held belief changes anything for the Jets or Sam Darnold.

[jgb]

20 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

This is the sort of ridiculous hot take Rolling Stone magazine puts at the top of their "all time greatest" lists so that people talk about their stupid lists.

By this measure it would be Sanchize anyway for all of the reasons you just mentioned. He set the team back a decade and triggered this avalanche.

What did we trade up to take Sanchez and how many playoff games did Sanchez win? It's not even close. Sanchez is not only better as a player than Darnold, but once you consider what we gave up, Darnold is infinitely a bigger bust.

[jgb]

55 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Sam isn't totally useless like Gholston. He had some good games. He went 6-2 at the end last season granted he beat bad teams. And by far, the biggest bust was Lam Jones. With Sam, we didn't pass on two future HOF candidates. I don't think Allen or Jackson will be HOF QB's. With Jones who was selected #2, we passed on Art Monk and Anthony Munoz. That is way worse than Sam and when you factor in that we couldn't even trade Jones. I think he played 4 or 5 season and we cut him and nobody even wanted to claim him. You want to talk bad, that is bad.

Darnold is a better player than Gholston yes although that's no compliment, the difference is that Darnold cost oh so much more and due to sunken cost fallacy Jets have let hope rot for too long.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

The Jets gave up 2 first round picks for Lam Jones in the first round. 

Considering the bust rate for QBs in the first round, vs WRs in the first round, I may have to say it is Lam Jones.

So many others though.

EDIT- I noticed others said Lam before I posted.

In fairness the draft back then wasn’t nearly the science it is today. GMs still draft plenty of busts now but you’re talking about comparing to an era of film reels and the non pooling of information. Now even casual fans have better on-field assessment tools than the pros had back then. 

Then again nowadays fans and GMs still get wow’d by an incredible college game comeback and conveniently ignore how a Josh Rosen had a deep pass go right through a defender’s hands into those of his own receiver for a game winning TD in the hand that made him; or Mark Sanchez throwing however many TDs to WRs running 5 yards deeper than the nearest defender; or ignore all the warning signs with Darnold that are getting magnified by far more people in hindsight. 

Fair or not, I think the bar and expectations are higher now, given all the extra tools and coverage. 

[Warfish]

9 hours ago, jgb said:

The consensus before was Gholston -- undoubtedly a worse player than Darnold but once you weigh in what we gave up for Darnold, it's really not even close. Misplaced hope in Gholston also never caused us to pass on a FQB -- i.e., Ryan Tannehill like I banged the table for.

 

I agree.

Sam Darnold cost the Jets a top #1 pick and three mostly top-end 2nd Round Picks.  Under any decent GM, that is four starters worth of picks, at least two of whom should be expected to be top performers.  Yes, I appreciate WE suck at drafting, but that is irrelevant.  That haul of picks should produce at least 3 starters and 2 top-flite starters for most decently managed franchises.

Instead, we got Sam Darnold.  A supposed savior, the golden boy, a supposedly elite, generational, etc. type QB (despite the many denials today by many of his most ardent supporters that they ever made those claims).  Those of us who expressed doubts were abused incessantly for doing so, even on technical/statistical grounds (like his turnovers, or his completion percentage).

Sam, an undeniably "nice kid" admittedly, has produced three of the worst seasons in New York Jets QB'ing history.  For all that we spent to acquire him, we've been provided:

1. Three losing seasons, with team records of  4-12, 7-9 (with an 0-7 start), and now 0-10, our worst start in Franchise history.

2. A personal record of 11-21 for Sam Darnold himself, so few because he's missed time in every season in which he has been a NY Jet.  He's more fragile than Pennington ever was, with worse luck (Mono).

3. A Lifetime sub 60% completion rate and a more or less 1:1 TD to INT Ration (slightly better but close enough).  

There is no area where Sam Darnold has achieved or exceeded expectations.  He does not make the players around him better.  He does not produce.  He is basicly "along for the ride" with whatever talent the team possesses.  Franchise-type QB's improve their talent, even when that talent is weak or subpar.  Sam Darnold doesn't.  The players in New York played as well or better with other QB's, pretty terrible ones at that, as they did with Sam.

The selection of Sam Darnold has effectively cost Jets Fans three years of their fan lives with literally no return on the massive investment that was made in him.  He is, and remains currently, the worst starting QB in the NFL over the period he has been in the league.  He rivals Josh Rosen as the biggest bust of his draft class, and the biggest 1st round QB bust in a number of years. 

He cannot be compared against Edge busts or Dtackle busts because those positions, while important, simply do not come close to rivaling the vital nature of the QB position in the modern NFL.  Sure, a DRob pick hurt and cost alot, but going so high-cost for such little return from a supposed franchise QB?  Same for the massive bust that was Blair Thomas.  No, nothing is like drafting a bust QB, that my friends is a franchise killer for a half decade or more.  It appears than Sam may not even get to see the end of his rookie contract in a New York Jersey, an indictment of him far louder than any post any of us could write.

In fairness, there is a not-inaccurate, not-insignificant argument to be made that Sam Darnold has been the least supported QB in Jets history (at least), and certainly the least supported QB in the NFL of the past three years.  He has generally played with worst-in-league or close O-lines.  He has suffered with sub-par offensive skill position players.  And (in my opinion), the worst Head Coach in NY Jets history, in Mr. Gase.  These are solid and factual counter-arguments in Sam's favor.  All true.  The problem is that even when you factor these challenges in, and look expressly at Sam's own personal play, you still come to the same conclusion:  He's not a very good QB.  He's quite inaccurate.  He has poor pocket presence.  He doesn't feel the rush and holds the ball far too long.  He doesn't see open (often wide open) receivers.  I said it early on and still believe it, he IS Patrick Ramsey, he shows all the very same flaws Ramsey did, inaccuracy, happy feet, poor pocket feel, etc.  And Sam still has that penchant for turnovers he had in college.  His youth is also a factor, albeit hard to say how much really today, three seasons into his pro career.

No QB in my own lifetime has been more of a disappointment to me as Sam Darnold has been.  Doubter tho I was from the start, he showed flashes of elite-level play (mostly early on), and his attitude and leadership seemed perfect for the NY media and fan environment, he said all the right things.  He really at times looked like he COULD be "the guy" to help save this franchise, and I cannot stress how likeable he is when you hear him talk or see him off the field.  But as time went on, and the team improved overall, he simply got worse and became more fragile.  

When I look back at our drafts, especially of QB's, I can't see anyone rivaling this one.  Hackenberg?  Don't be silly, a single 2nd round pick QB does not come with the expectations as a #3 pick, costing three extra 2nd rounders, like Sam.  Sanchez, much better, especially in the postseasons where he shone (even if he had to be carried there by a great team).  Pennington, same, even with the injuries.  O'Brian?  Todd?  Geno (another 2nd rounder), Clemens (yet another 2nd rounder).  Al f'ing Woodall (ANTOHER 2nd rounder, lol).......

Sadly, I can come to only one conclusion, and yes, it's that as of today, Sam Darnold is in fact the biggest bust in NY Jets Draft History.  He's gotten no help at all from the team, but sadly that doesn't change his epitaph here.  His cost alone, and the vital nature of his position, ensure his future place as the worst draft pick in Jets History for some time to come.  Which really, truly sucks.

Lets all hope that whomever we pick next to play QB for our beloved Jets, they get vastly more support, vastly better coaching, and have better luck than poor Sam has here.

[peebag]

ehh...Just wait until next year.

[rangerous]

6 hours ago, pdxgreen said:

Sorry I meant bust QB.  Changed the post but it didn't save it. I am not willing to call Sam the biggest bust in Jets history.  But I know who I pick for QB.

I don’t know. I think kellen Clemens or geno have to be up there is darnold is on the list.  And then there’s nagle. Granted these guys didn’t cost draft picks but they could’ve changed the team’s fortunes if they were any good.  Clemens could’ve stepped in for chaddy when he proved to be so fragile. Nagle could’ve made the whole boomer, O’Donnell trail irrelevant.  Geno could’ve beat out Sanchez and prevented fitzy from getting in by not being a punk.

[Scott Dierking]

20 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

In fairness the draft back then wasn’t nearly the science it is today. GMs still draft plenty of busts now but you’re talking about comparing to an era of film reels and the non pooling of information. Now even casual fans have better on-field assessment tools than the pros had back then. 

Then again nowadays fans and GMs still get wow’d by an incredible college game comeback and conveniently ignore how a Josh Rosen had a deep pass go right through a defender’s hands into those of his own receiver for a game winning TD in the hand that made him; or Mark Sanchez throwing however many TDs to WRs running 5 yards deeper than the nearest defender; or ignore all the warning signs with Darnold that are getting magnified by far more people in hindsight. 

Fair or not, I think the bar and expectations are higher now, given all the extra tools and coverage. 

You are absolutely correct. That Lam Jones was a bust shouldn't actually be a surprise for those that would have dug a little deeper.

Lam had a total of 85 catches through 4 years of college. He was a converted track star, so his hands probably should have been considered suspect. 

Arm chair analysts as they exist today would have had a field day criticizing the pick first, and then the capital that the Jets gave upon top of that. All things considered, it should not have been a huge surprise that Jones washed out in the NFL. Just horrible analysis by the Jets. That is what happens when someone falls in love with someone too much and bangs the table.

The Jets wound up passing on Anthony Munoz (although they already had bookends Marvin Powell and Chris Ward), but Art Monk went 15 picks later.

Interesting side note, Jones was the first million dollar per year contract in the NFL.

1980 Draft 1st round

1	1	DET	Billy Sims	RB	24	1984	0	3	5	58	58	60	0	0	0	0	0	1131	5106	42	186	2072	5			Oklahoma	College Stats
1	2	NYJ	Lam Jones	WR	22	1984	0	0	3	21	21	61	0	0	0	0	0	9	17	0	138	2322	13			Texas	College Stats
1	3	CIN	Anthony Munoz HOF	T	22	1992	9	11	12	148	148	185	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	7	18	4			USC
1	4	GNB	Bruce Clark	DE	22	1989	0	1	6	46		113	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	39.5	Penn St.	College Stats
1	5	BAL	Curtis Dickey	RB	23	1986	0	0	5	38	34	85	1	1	63	1	0	937	4019	32	134	1577	8			Texas A&M	College Stats
1	6	STL	Curtis Greer	DE	22	1987	0	0	6	37	37	94	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0		50.5	Michigan	College Stats
1	7	ATL	Junior Miller	TE	22	1984	0	2	3	14	13	71	0	0	0	0	0	3	0	0	122	1409	14			Nebraska	College Stats
1	8	NYG	Mark Haynes	DB	21	1989	2	3	7	78	64	127	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	17	1.0	Colorado	College Stats
1	9	MIN	Doug Martin	DE	23	1989	0	0	7	47	47	126	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	50.5	Washington
1	10	SEA	Jacob Green	DE	23	1992	0	2	12	81	81	180	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	3	97.5	Texas A&M	College Stats
1	11	KAN	Brad Budde	G	22	1986	0	0	6	40	40	92	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0			USC	College Stats
1	12	NOR	Stan Brock	T	22	1995	0	0	16	86	66	234	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0			Colorado
1	13	SFO	Earl Cooper	RB	22	1986	0	0	4	25	25	93	0	0	0	0	0	298	1152	6	213	1908	12			Rice	College Stats
1	14	NWE	Roland James	DB	22	1990	0	0	8	56	56	145	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	29	5.0	Tennessee	College Stats
1	15	OAK	Marc Wilson	QB	23	1990	0	0	5	35	32	126	1085	2081	14391	86	102	141	611	5	0	0	0			BYU	College Stats
1	16	BUF	Jim Ritcher	G	22	1995	0	2	11	75	75	218	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0			North Carolina St.	College Stats
1	17	RAM	Johnnie Johnson	DB	23	1989	0	0	7	52	52	124	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	22	2.0	Texas	College Stats
1	18	WAS	Art Monk HOF	WR	22	1995	1	3	14	93	91	224	1	2	46	0	0	63	332	0	940	12721	68			Syracuse	College Stats
1	19	CHI	Otis Wilson	LB	22	1989	0	1	7	57	57	110	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	10	36.0	Louisville	College Stats
1	20	SFO	Jim Stuckey	DE	22	1986	0	0	3	25	24	93	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0		7.5	Clemson	College Stats
1	21	MIA	Don McNeal	DB	22	1989	0	0	4	31	31	110	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	18		Alabama	College Stats
1	22	TAM	Ray Snell	G	22	1985	0	0	3	21	18	65	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0			Wisconsin
1	23	PHI	Roynell Young	DB	22	1988	0	1	8	65	65	117	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	23		Alcorn St.
1	24	BAL	Derrick Hatchett	DB	22	1983	0	0	4	20	20	49	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	7		Texas	College Stats
1	25	NWE	Vagas Ferguson	RB	23	1983	0	0	1	10	10	33	0	0	0	0	0	290	1163	5	26	212	0			Notre Dame	College Stats
1	26	GNB	George Cumby	LB	24	1987	0	0	5	33	30	92	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	5	5.5	Oklahoma	College Stats
1	27	CLE	Charles White	RB	22	1988	1	1	3	29	13	108	0	0	0	0	0	780	3075	23	114	860	1			USC	College Stats
1	28	PIT	Mark Malone	QB	21	1989	0	0	5	27	25	73	839	1648	10175	60	81	159	628	18	1

 

 

[rangerous]

11 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

You are absolutely correct. That Lam Jones was a bust shouldn't actually be a surprise for those that would have dug a little deeper.

Lam had a total of 85 catches through 4 years of college. He was a converted track star, so his hands probably should have been considered suspect. 

Arm chair analysts as they exist today would have had a field day criticizing the pick first, and then the capital that the Jets gave upon top of that. All things considered, it should not have been a huge surprise that Jones washed out in the NFL. Just horrible analysis by the Jets. That is what happens when someone falls in love with someone too much and bangs the table.

The Jets wound up passing on Anthony Munoz (although they already had bookends Marvin Powell and Chris Ward), but Art Monk went 15 picks later.

Interesting side note, Jones was the first million dollar per year contract in the NFL.

1980 Draft 1st round

1	1	DET	Billy Sims	RB	24	1984	0	3	5	58	58	60	0	0	0	0	0	1131	5106	42	186	2072	5			Oklahoma	College Stats
1	2	NYJ	Lam Jones	WR	22	1984	0	0	3	21	21	61	0	0	0	0	0	9	17	0	138	2322	13			Texas	College Stats
1	3	CIN	Anthony Munoz HOF	T	22	1992	9	11	12	148	148	185	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	7	18	4			USC
1	4	GNB	Bruce Clark	DE	22	1989	0	1	6	46		113	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	39.5	Penn St.	College Stats
1	5	BAL	Curtis Dickey	RB	23	1986	0	0	5	38	34	85	1	1	63	1	0	937	4019	32	134	1577	8			Texas A&M	College Stats
1	6	STL	Curtis Greer	DE	22	1987	0	0	6	37	37	94	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0		50.5	Michigan	College Stats
1	7	ATL	Junior Miller	TE	22	1984	0	2	3	14	13	71	0	0	0	0	0	3	0	0	122	1409	14			Nebraska	College Stats
1	8	NYG	Mark Haynes	DB	21	1989	2	3	7	78	64	127	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	17	1.0	Colorado	College Stats
1	9	MIN	Doug Martin	DE	23	1989	0	0	7	47	47	126	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	50.5	Washington
1	10	SEA	Jacob Green	DE	23	1992	0	2	12	81	81	180	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	3	97.5	Texas A&M	College Stats
1	11	KAN	Brad Budde	G	22	1986	0	0	6	40	40	92	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0			USC	College Stats
1	12	NOR	Stan Brock	T	22	1995	0	0	16	86	66	234	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0			Colorado
1	13	SFO	Earl Cooper	RB	22	1986	0	0	4	25	25	93	0	0	0	0	0	298	1152	6	213	1908	12			Rice	College Stats
1	14	NWE	Roland James	DB	22	1990	0	0	8	56	56	145	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	29	5.0	Tennessee	College Stats
1	15	OAK	Marc Wilson	QB	23	1990	0	0	5	35	32	126	1085	2081	14391	86	102	141	611	5	0	0	0			BYU	College Stats
1	16	BUF	Jim Ritcher	G	22	1995	0	2	11	75	75	218	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0			North Carolina St.	College Stats
1	17	RAM	Johnnie Johnson	DB	23	1989	0	0	7	52	52	124	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	22	2.0	Texas	College Stats
1	18	WAS	Art Monk HOF	WR	22	1995	1	3	14	93	91	224	1	2	46	0	0	63	332	0	940	12721	68			Syracuse	College Stats
1	19	CHI	Otis Wilson	LB	22	1989	0	1	7	57	57	110	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	10	36.0	Louisville	College Stats
1	20	SFO	Jim Stuckey	DE	22	1986	0	0	3	25	24	93	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0		7.5	Clemson	College Stats
1	21	MIA	Don McNeal	DB	22	1989	0	0	4	31	31	110	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	18		Alabama	College Stats
1	22	TAM	Ray Snell	G	22	1985	0	0	3	21	18	65	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0			Wisconsin
1	23	PHI	Roynell Young	DB	22	1988	0	1	8	65	65	117	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	23		Alcorn St.
1	24	BAL	Derrick Hatchett	DB	22	1983	0	0	4	20	20	49	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	7		Texas	College Stats
1	25	NWE	Vagas Ferguson	RB	23	1983	0	0	1	10	10	33	0	0	0	0	0	290	1163	5	26	212	0			Notre Dame	College Stats
1	26	GNB	George Cumby	LB	24	1987	0	0	5	33	30	92	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	5	5.5	Oklahoma	College Stats
1	27	CLE	Charles White	RB	22	1988	1	1	3	29	13	108	0	0	0	0	0	780	3075	23	114	860	1			USC	College Stats
1	28	PIT	Mark Malone	QB	21	1989	0	0	5	27	25	73	839	1648	10175	60	81	159	628	18	1

 

 

I can still remember Todd laying up a deep pass to jones on the sideline right into his hands and he drops it. The guy had all the speed in the world.

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, rangerous said:

I can still remember Todd laying up a deep pass to jones on the sideline right into his hands and he drops it. The guy had all the speed in the world.

It happened often. Guy could get wide open. No problem there. Catching the ball was a whole other thing.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, The Crusher said:

It’s probably ok to say it now, but if Sam moves on and play well for another team then that will mean only one thing. The Jets are the biggest bust in Jets history. 

If Sam "goes on to play well" he will be the most successful turnaround QB in history.

[jgb]

27 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I agree.

Sam Darnold cost the Jets a top #1 pick and three mostly top-end 2nd Round Picks.  Under any decent GM, that is four starters worth of picks, at least two of whom should be expected to be top performers.  Yes, I appreciate WE suck at drafting, but that is irrelevant.  That haul of picks should produce at least 3 starters and 2 top-flite starters for most decently managed franchises.

Instead, we got Sam Darnold.  A supposed savior, the golden boy, a supposedly elite, generational, etc. type QB (despite the many denials today by many of his most ardent supporters that they ever made those claims).  Those of us who expressed doubts were abused incessantly for doing so, even on technical/statistical grounds (like his turnovers, or his completion percentage).

Sam, an undeniably "nice kid" admittedly, has produced three of the worst seasons in New York Jets QB'ing history.  For all that we spent to acquire him, we've been provided:

1. Three losing seasons, with team records of  4-12, 7-9 (with an 0-7 start), and now 0-10, our worst start in Franchise history.

2. A personal record of 11-21 for Sam Darnold himself, so few because he's missed time in every season in which he has been a NY Jet.  He's more fragile than Pennington ever was, with worse luck (Mono).

3. A Lifetime sub 60% completion rate and a more or less 1:1 TD to INT Ration (slightly better but close enough).  

There is no area where Sam Darnold has achieved or exceeded expectations.  He does not make the players around him better.  He does not produce.  He is basicly "along for the ride" with whatever talent the team possesses.  Franchise-type QB's improve their talent, even when that talent is weak or subpar.  Sam Darnold doesn't.  The players in New York played as well or better with other QB's, pretty terrible ones at that, as they did with Sam.

The selection of Sam Darnold has effectively cost Jets Fans three years of their fan lives with literally no return on the massive investment that was made in him.  He is, and remains currently, the worst starting QB in the NFL over the period he has been in the league.  He rivals Josh Rosen as the biggest bust of his draft class, and the biggest 1st round QB bust in a number of years. 

He cannot be compared against Edge busts or Dtackle busts because those positions, while important, simply do not come close to rivaling the vital nature of the QB position in the modern NFL.  Sure, a DRob pick hurt and cost alot, but going so high-cost for such little return from a supposed franchise QB?  Same for the massive bust that was Blair Thomas.  No, nothing is like drafting a bust QB, that my friends is a franchise killer for a half decade or more.  It appears than Sam may not even get to see the end of his rookie contract in a New York Jersey, an indictment of him far louder than any post any of us could write.

In fairness, there is a not-inaccurate, not-insignificant argument to be made that Sam Darnold has been the least supported QB in Jets history (at least), and certainly the least supported QB in the NFL of the past three years.  He has generally played with worst-in-league or close O-lines.  He has suffered with sub-par offensive skill position players.  And (in my opinion), the worst Head Coach in NY Jets history, in Mr. Gase.  These are solid and factual counter-arguments in Sam's favor.  All true.  The problem is that even when you factor these challenges in, and look expressly at Sam's own personal play, you still come to the same conclusion:  He's not a very good QB.  He's quite inaccurate.  He has poor pocket presence.  He doesn't feel the rush and holds the ball far too long.  He doesn't see open (often wide open) receivers.  I said it early on and still believe it, he IS Patrick Ramsey, he shows all the very same flaws Ramsey did, inaccuracy, happy feet, poor pocket feel, etc.  And Sam still has that penchant for turnovers he had in college.  His youth is also a factor, albeit hard to say how much really today, three seasons into his pro career.

No QB in my own lifetime has been more of a disappointment to me as Sam Darnold has been.  Doubter tho I was from the start, he showed flashes of elite-level play (mostly early on), and his attitude and leadership seemed perfect for the NY media and fan environment, he said all the right things.  He really at times looked like he COULD be "the guy" to help save this franchise.  But as time went on, and the team improved overall, he got worse.  

When I look back at our drafts, especially of QB's, I can't see anyone rivaling this one.  Hackenberg?  Don't be silly, a single 2nd round pick QB does not come with the expectations as a #3 pick, costing three extra 2nd rounders, like Sam.  Sanchez, much better, especially in the postseasons where he shone (even if he had to be carried there by a great team).  Pennington, same, even with the injuries.  O'Brian?  Todd?  Geno (another 2nd rounder), Clemens (yet another 2nd rounder).  Al f'ing Woodall (ANTOHER 2nd rounder, lol).......

Sadly, I can come to only one conclusion, and yes, it's that as of today, Sam Darnold is in fact the biggest bust in NY Jets Draft History.  He's gotten no help at all from the team, but sadly that doesn't change his epitaph here.  His cost alone, and the vital nature of his position, ensure his future place as the worst draft pick in Jets History for some time to come.  Which really, truly sucks.

Lets all hope that whomever we pick next to play QB for our beloved Jets, they get vastly more support, vastly better coaching, and have better luck than poor Sam has here.

Same with Sanchez. Same with Geno. We'll be debating Sam every time he completes a pass for the next 10 years. No one is ever wrong on the Internet, they just go into hibernation and wait for conditions to improve.

[AL047]

What I laugh the most is most blame Maccagnan for drafting Darnold. I remember a lot of people on this board that wanted Darnold and that he's the better QB coming out of college!!!! Most said if the Jets don't draft Darnold then Maccagnan should be fired!!!!

Remember most on this board claim that Darnold was better than Allen, Baker Mayfield and Lamar Jackson coming out of college. Remember everyone's claim that Darnold is the best QB in the AFC East!!!! The only thing I blame Maccagnan is that he didn't do his homework good enough when selecting a QB. Maccagnan took what basically everyone wanted and that was to draft QB Sam Darnold!!!! He was trying to erase his mistake of drafting Hackenburg in the second round.

Is Darnold a bust, yes he is!!! Is he worst than any other player drafted in the first round by the Jets, NO!!!! Remember, Gholston he was drafted because Mangini thought he was Belicheck and tried to convert him to the next Willie McGinist on defense.  Gholston could not be fixed because Rex couldn't fix his problem. Blair Thomas coming out of a powerhouse at Penn State which grooms RBs, this guy had one full season he played in college coming off an injury (knee). He put up good numbers at the combine and was draft and after that the rest was history.

It proves a huge point here that looking at college stats and performance isn't the only thing that counts besides combine results. The GM has to put in the extra effort and discuss things over with the scouts and watch films together to see if they missed something. Work with the coaches to see if they see anything that they missed. No team is perfect in the draft and taking a player is a gamble in itself but teams that are in the playoffs always are always checking twice or three time to make sure that player is the right fit.

[TuscanyTile2]

Personally I still think Sam is good and he'll succeed elsewhere, but only time will tell on that.

IMO, he's somewhat a victim of circumstance (bad-to-terrible OL plus bad-to-terrible weapons) and somewhat a victim of us having literally the worst HC in the NFL (along with a terrible OC, hand-picked by our HC).   I'm not just talking about a "bad HC" here.  I'm talking "historically bad".

On top of that, it's getting to the time where we're going to have to pay big money to keep him and, due to the above circumstances, he hasn't justified it.

[Sperm Edwards]

8 hours ago, jgb said:

The consensus before was Gholston -- undoubtedly a worse player than Darnold but once you weigh in what we gave up for Darnold, it's really not even close. Misplaced hope in Gholston also never caused us to pass on a FQB -- i.e., Ryan Tannehill like I banged the table for.

Gholston was a far bigger bust. The difference is expectation. The thing you're factoring in is Darnold was pegged as the "it" player friggin' halfway through his sophomore season. That only grew as the season went on, through that Rose Bowl game - and the 2017 draft experts that told us there was no marquis QB to be had that year - and even through that string of multi-pick games in Sept '17.

Gholston was a guy whose stock skyrocketed after the combine (a guy that big running the 40 that fast, and he got a sack or two on Jake Long). IIRC he was pegged as around a 20th-ish pick after his final OSU game. At the end of October of his 2nd-last college season, no one was talking about him as the #1 overall draft pick that year or a year later the way they were after teenage Darnold had yet a second consecutive 5-TD (and 4th consecutive 3-TD) game. Darnold was that "it" prospect from long before the draft.

Is he the biggest bust in Jets history? No. 

Is he the biggest letdown, in comparison to expectations (i.e. relative bust)? A case could be made. 

I know we've had others (e.g. Jones, etc.) but none of them had Darnold's can't-miss hype. The only question with Darnold was whether or not he'd be a great QB - or would he be a mere Eli-level occasional pro-bowler or a consensus HOFer - not whether or not he'd be a clear starting QB, which he only is right now due to his pie in the sky ceiling and pre-Jets hype.

[genot]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

LOL! First, why would I have any desire or inclination to try to change your mind? It is a sports opinion which is the best kind of opinion because it literally harms no one.  Second, people who say this sort of thing no desire to have their mind changed. They just want to argue their point. Third, who cares. Unless Sam lights the NFL up after he returns, if the Jets are picking first or second in the draft, he will be traded. If the Jets are picking later than #2, Sam, bust or not, will be your 2021 NY Jets QB.

So, I fail to see why making any effort to change your mind as to a firmly held belief changes anything for the Jets or Sam Darnold.

So glad, there's a sane, sober person posting on this issue. Darnold will be back next year, with a top round guard and center. and a quality receiver added to the roster. Probably Smith- Shuster,who's said he would love to be reunited with Sam.

[The Crusher]

42 minutes ago, jgb said:

If Sam "goes on to play well" he will be the most successful turnaround QB in history.

...and that for once and for all will solidify the the Jets as the Jets biggest bust of all time. I’m sure there are a couple other teams that have them , but arguably we have some of the most famous albeit  horrifying draft bust videos of all times. Come on, NFL literally moved the draft out of NY to keep Jet fans from eventually jumping from the balconies to their deaths. We all know it was coming. 

[playtowinthegame]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

Every time I look at darnold I see Quenton Nelson and 3 2nd Rd picks

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

I see Mac and hear BPA.

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, playtowinthegame said:

I see Mac and hear BPA.

ironic how the one year sticking at 6 and taking BAP would have been an instant Hall of Famer, that's the year Mac grows balls and trades up 

wait no, ironic isn't the word i'm looking for. Ridiculous, maybe? 

[Fantasy Island]

10 hours ago, Jet2020 said:

Doubt it...

ewwwwww, she needs a gd snack!

ok the ending makes up for that anorexic waist.

[Gastineau Lives]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

Sanchez is not only better as a player than Darnold,

Umm no, no he's not.

Laugh all you want but you're comparing a guy that had EVERYTHING a QB needs to succeed to a guy that had the EXACT opposite. 

Best offensive line in football, best running game in football, Santonio Holmes, Braylon Edwards, Dustin Keller, Jerricho Cotchery. In four years - 55 completion percentage, 60 tds and 69 interceptions.

The other guy: Worst offensive line in football, no running game, horrific receivers. - 60 percent completions 39 tds to 34 int

The balls on you for even making the effort to type that.

It's ******* silly. I'm embarrassed for you. That laugh emoticon should come with a silvery foot of drool hanging from its chin.

[southparkcpa]

Sam should NOT be blamed because MAC is a fukkin a$$hole and drafted Hackenberg.

IF we simply had the 3rd pick without giving uo the farm to get it and drafted SAM, he is not our worst BUST.

He is in the top 3-4 with The Ghost as number one without question.  But players like Milner have to be in the conversation.  Sam played... Milner played how many games?  Ghost?

Sam was 6 and 2 to end last season?  Yes he sucks BUT we have seen flashes of good play when he had good players around him.

 

 

[chirorob]

2 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

For Dewayne Robertson we ended up trading away two first-round picks (13th and 22nd) to the Chicago Bears in exchange for the fourth overall pick and we should've simply stayed put because with pick 13 Troy Polamalu was still available (went 16th overall) and with pick 22 Nnamdi Asomugha was still available (drafted 31st overall) and could you imagine those 2009 defenses with Revis/Nnamdi Asomugha/Troy Polamalu within the secondary? 

I'll always consider Vernon Gholston (3 years with 0 career sacks) Robertson (D-Slob) and TE Kyle Brady as the biggest Jet busts within my generation. 

Dee Milliner too. As an FSU fan I was screaming @ my TV to draft Xavier Rhodes who later went to the Vikings first round and went onto become one of the greatest NFL CB's. 

Something about Marcus Maye bothers me too. Everytime I see Dalvin Cook another FSU alumni destroying the league on offense it bothers me knowing that I was screaming @ my TV 2nd round for Dalvin Cook only to see him get drafted to the Vikings two picks later after we struck on on Maye. The Vikings always hit on our misses. 

Even though I've quit on Sam Darnold he isn't even close to being the Jets biggest bust at least he's got more TDs than INTs etc. 

I wouldn't call Brady a bust, it's just that every Jet fan was screaming for Sapp.  He was what he was, a big run blocking tight end, but he did play for 12 ish years.

Marcus Maye is ironically probably the best 2nd rounder in a decade, again, it just most of us wanted Dalvin Cook.

Maybe Sam wouldn't have struggled as much if he had a Dalvin Cook type to throw to.

 

[chirorob]

10 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Sam should NOT be blamed because MAC is a fukkin a$$hole and drafted Hackenberg.

IF we simply had the 3rd pick without giving uo the farm to get it and drafted SAM, he is not our worst BUST.

He is in the top 3-4 with The Ghost as number one without question.  But players like Milner have to be in the conversation.  Sam played... Milner played how many games?  Ghost?

Sam was 6 and 2 to end last season?  Yes he sucks BUT we have seen flashes of good play when he had good players around him.

QB's are hard to judge in a vacuum.  I'm not making excuses for Darnold, he is regressing, but who would have flourished with no WR, a poor line, Gase as a HC, and no real running attack?

I could see him leaving, going to a real time, and still having a good career.

 

[The Crusher]

18 minutes ago, bitonti said:

ironic how the one year sticking at 6 and taking BAP would have been an instant Hall of Famer, that's the year Mac grows balls and trades up 

wait no, ironic isn't the word i'm looking for. Ridiculous, maybe? 

Year we traded up fir Donald ? Who the hell is instant  HOFer we could have drafted